Guest guest Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 L.E: Ordinary life where most of us live most of the time and this takes the absorbtion and expenditure of energy to survive. Sometimes situations are difficult and we need to struggle or exert extra effort and sometimes we don't. Sometimes we relax and rest, recuperate, energiize and enjoy our life, our being alive, our being. There is no need to be free of this, because it is just ordinary life. The writing below is classic Krishnamurti, full of gross generalization, exaggeration and negativity. Using energy to live is not conflict. Conflict is conflict. War is conflict, arguing with your landlord is conflict, going to court and divorce is usually conflict, but not everything, not all the time. We are not wasting energy to live, we are using stored energy which is the process of life itself. Sometimes we fight futile battles, argue to no avail, try hard to accomplish something that does not provide what we wanted, but often we enjoy using our energy to live in nice, beautiful and enjoyable ways. Krishnamurti gives bad advice and is very often critical of everyone and everything, and I wonder as have others if he experienced and practised what he preached. Or just a mouth with lots of words. Larry Epston Adamson <adamson Undisclosed-Recipient:; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 09:32:26 -0700 J. Krishnamurti on " Duality Creates Conflict " Duality Creates Conflict Conflict of any kind—physically, psychologically, intellectually—is a waste of energy. Please, it is extraordinarily difficult to understand and to be free of this because most of us are brought up to struggle, to make effort. When we are at school, that is the first thing that we are taught—to make an effort. And that struggle, that effort is carried throughout life—that is, to be good you must struggle, you must fight evil, you must resist, control. So, educationally, sociologically, religiously, human beings are taught to struggle. You are told that to find God you must work, discipline, do practice, twist and torture your soul, your mind, your body, deny, suppress; that you must not look; that you must fight, fight, fight at that so-called spiritual level—which is not the spiritual level at all. Then, socially each one is out for himself, for his family. ....So, all around, we are wasting energy. And that waste of energy in essence is conflict: the conflict between " I should " and " I should not, " " I must " and " I must not. " Once having created duality, conflict is inevitable. So one has to understand this whole process of duality—not that there is not man and woman, green and red, light and darkness, tall and short; all those are facts. But in the effort that goes into this division between the fact and the idea, there is the waste of energy. The Book of Life - June 2 ********************************************** I might add, conflict also creates duality! ... Michael Adamson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Larry - That seems a bit harsh. His understanding that it's worthwhile to look at the direction of one's energy seems on-target to me. If you don't get caught up in the part that is lecturing and moralizing, he has some good things to say, in my opinion. But, I guess, each will find truth where and how that one is to find truth. Good hearing from you -- -- Dan (nothing new below) Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > L.E: Ordinary life where most of us live most of the time and this takes the absorbtion and expenditure of energy to survive. Sometimes situations are difficult and we need to struggle or exert extra effort and sometimes we don't. Sometimes we relax and rest, recuperate, energiize and enjoy our life, our being alive, our being. There is no need to be free of this, because it is just ordinary life. The writing below is classic Krishnamurti, full of gross generalization, exaggeration and negativity. Using energy to live is not conflict. Conflict is conflict. War is conflict, arguing with your landlord is conflict, going to court and divorce is usually conflict, but not everything, not all the time. We are not wasting energy to live, we are using stored energy which is the process of life itself. Sometimes we fight futile battles, argue to no avail, try hard to accomplish something that does not provide what we wanted, but often we enjoy using our energy to live in nice, beautiful and enjoyable ways. > Krishnamurti gives bad advice and is very often critical of everyone and everything, and I wonder as have others if he experienced and practised what he preached. Or just a mouth with lots of words. > > Larry Epston > > > Adamson <adamson > Undisclosed-Recipient:; > Fri, 2 Jun 2006 09:32:26 -0700 > J. Krishnamurti on " Duality Creates Conflict " > > > Duality Creates Conflict > > Conflict of any kind†" physically, psychologically, intellectually†" is a waste of > energy. Please, it is extraordinarily difficult to understand and to be free of > this because most of us are brought up to struggle, to make effort. When we are > at school, that is the first thing that we are taught†" to make an effort. And > that struggle, that effort is carried throughout life†" that is, to be good you > must struggle, you must fight evil, you must resist, control. So, educationally, > sociologically, religiously, human beings are taught to struggle. You are told > that to find God you must work, discipline, do practice, twist and torture your > soul, your mind, your body, deny, suppress; that you must not look; that you > must fight, fight, fight at that so-called spiritual level†" which is not the > spiritual level at all. Then, socially each one is out for himself, for his > family. > > ...So, all around, we are wasting energy. And that waste of energy in essence is > conflict: the conflict between " I should " and " I should not, " " I must " and " I > must not. " Once having created duality, conflict is inevitable. So one has to > understand this whole process of duality†" not that there is not man and woman, > green and red, light and darkness, tall and short; all those are facts. But in > the effort that goes into this division between the fact and the idea, there is > the waste of energy. > > The Book of Life - June 2 > ********************************************** > > I might add, conflict also creates duality! ... Michael Adamson > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 L.E: He always says the same thing. You must understand the whole process, but doesn't tell you how to do that. As follows: " So one has to understand this whole process of duality " not that there is not man and woman, green and red, light and darkness, tall and short; all those are facts. But in the effort that goes into this division between the fact and the idea, there is the waste of energy. K. has taken up a lot of space and many have been attracted to his teachings. If these teaching are weak and unreliable, can you compute the waste of energy that has been expended in attention to him? Same as Jesus the Jewish rabbi rising from the dead. If this is a lie, a falsehood, an impossibility, what a terrible thing has befallen millions of believers. Even unto today. A false teacher or teaching that is held by many is a terrible tragedy. I can hardly be harsh enough. If Mohammed was not and is not a prophet of god, if jesus is not the divine light, if buddha was not an incarnation of Krishna, etc, etc, it is a terrific hoodwink of major proporations. Ghastly, obscene and perverse. Am I being too harsh? dan330033 <dan330033 Nisargadatta Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:52:13 -0000 Re: J. Krishnamurti: Waste of Energy? Larry - That seems a bit harsh. His understanding that it's worthwhile to look at the direction of one's energy seems on-target to me. If you don't get caught up in the part that is lecturing and moralizing, he has some good things to say, in my opinion. But, I guess, each will find truth where and how that one is to find truth. Good hearing from you -- -- Dan (nothing new below) Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > L.E: Ordinary life where most of us live most of the time and this takes the absorbtion and expenditure of energy to survive. Sometimes situations are difficult and we need to struggle or exert extra effort and sometimes we don't. Sometimes we relax and rest, recuperate, energiize and enjoy our life, our being alive, our being. There is no need to be free of this, because it is just ordinary life. The writing below is classic Krishnamurti, full of gross generalization, exaggeration and negativity. Using energy to live is not conflict. Conflict is conflict. War is conflict, arguing with your landlord is conflict, going to court and divorce is usually conflict, but not everything, not all the time. We are not wasting energy to live, we are using stored energy which is the process of life itself. Sometimes we fight futile battles, argue to no avail, try hard to accomplish something that does not provide what we wanted, but often we enjoy using our energy to live in nice, beautiful and enjoyable ways. > Krishnamurti gives bad advice and is very often critical of everyone and everything, and I wonder as have others if he experienced and practised what he preached. Or just a mouth with lots of words. > > Larry Epston > > > Adamson <adamson > Undisclosed-Recipient:; > Fri, 2 Jun 2006 09:32:26 -0700 > J. Krishnamurti on " Duality Creates Conflict " > > > Duality Creates Conflict > > Conflict of any kind†" physically, psychologically, intellectually†" is a waste of > energy. Please, it is extraordinarily difficult to understand and to be free of > this because most of us are brought up to struggle, to make effort. When we are > at school, that is the first thing that we are taught†" to make an effort. And > that struggle, that effort is carried throughout life†" that is, to be good you > must struggle, you must fight evil, you must resist, control. So, educationally, > sociologically, religiously, human beings are taught to struggle. You are told > that to find God you must work, discipline, do practice, twist and torture your > soul, your mind, your body, deny, suppress; that you must not look; that you > must fight, fight, fight at that so-called spiritual level†" which is not the > spiritual level at all. Then, socially each one is out for himself, for his > family. > > ...So, all around, we are wasting energy. And that waste of energy in essence is > conflict: the conflict between " I should " and " I should not, " " I must " and " I > must not. " Once having created duality, conflict is inevitable. So one has to > understand this whole process of duality†" not that there is not man and woman, > green and red, light and darkness, tall and short; all those are facts. But in > the effort that goes into this division between the fact and the idea, there is > the waste of energy. > > The Book of Life - June 2 > ********************************************** > > I might add, conflict also creates duality! ... Michael Adamson > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > L.E: He always says the same thing. You must understand the whole process, but doesn't tell you how to do that. As follows: " So one has to understand this whole process of duality " not that there is not man > and woman, green and red, light and darkness, tall and short; all those are > facts. But in the effort that goes into this division between the fact and the > idea, there is the waste of energy. > > K. has taken up a lot of space and many have been attracted to his teachings. If these teaching are weak and unreliable, can you compute the waste of energy that has been expended in attention to him? Same as Jesus the Jewish rabbi rising from the dead. If this is a lie, a falsehood, an impossibility, what a terrible thing has befallen millions of believers. Even unto today. A false teacher or teaching that is held by many is a terrible tragedy. I can hardly be harsh enough. If Mohammed was not and is not a prophet of god, if jesus is not the divine light, if buddha was not an incarnation of Krishna, etc, etc, it is a terrific hoodwink of major proporations. > Ghastly, obscene and perverse. Am I being too harsh? D: Well, you also seem to miss his point, imo. Krishnamurti wasn't intending to present a belief system as I read him -- more like a way to question one's beliefs systematically. But, I'm not that concerned either way. Krishnamurti is another writer about topics related to awareness, and there have been a million and will be a million more. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > L.E: He always says the same thing. You must understand the whole process, but doesn't tell you how to do that. As follows: " So one has to understand this whole process of duality " not that there is not man > and woman, green and red, light and darkness, tall and short; all those are > facts. But in the effort that goes into this division between the fact and the > idea, there is the waste of energy. > > K. has taken up a lot of space and many have been attracted to his teachings. If these teaching are weak and unreliable, can you compute the waste of energy that has been expended in attention to him? Same as Jesus the Jewish rabbi rising from the dead. If this is a lie, a falsehood, an impossibility, what a terrible thing has befallen millions of believers. Even unto today. A false teacher or teaching that is held by many is a terrible tragedy. I can hardly be harsh enough. If Mohammed was not and is not a prophet of god, if jesus is not the divine light, if buddha was not an incarnation of Krishna, etc, etc, it is a terrific hoodwink of major proporations. > Ghastly, obscene and perverse. Am I being too harsh? No, the usual Larry ....who cannot compete with Enlightened World Teachers and Avatars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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