Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Mats " <hyl894t@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > The true teacher IS Freedom.......and he sets about to free you > > from > > > > ALL bondage from the first moment of contact. - He will not abide > > > with > > > > any posturing and bowing. > > > > It's only your own resistance that stand in the way of immediate > > > > release. > > > > > > > > > > I guess it takes courage or mindlessness to be free. > > > But then, we're free already so who needs courage or a mind? > > > > > > > > Correct > > Being correct has nothing to do with freedom. > > Saying that everyone is free from the beginning is just an idea > overheard -- a repetition of gossip. (unless one knows one's being > " prior to conditions " -- and fully within and as conditions: " from > balls to bone " as the Oracle said to Neo.) > > True, this is not a personal possession, and doesn't depend on > personally acquired qualities like courage or an imaginary mind of > one's own. > > Yet, apart from your personal being as it is right now, there is no > way to know this as is (not from an outside position). > > It's not by getting rid of one's personal being that truth is > understood -- so back one comes to courage, commitment, and > responsibility -- just no imputation of a separable being that does > those things! > > -- Dan > So you'd like to be courageous, committed and responsible without separable being? Free your mind Dan! (As Morpheus said to Neo) Is there such a thing as courage without separable being? 1500 The devil made her do it, burn the witch! 1976 My ego makes me do it, but hey I'm innocent! 2006 ....................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Mats " <hyl894t wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Mats " <hyl894t@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The true teacher IS Freedom.......and he sets about to free > you > > > from > > > > > ALL bondage from the first moment of contact. - He will not > abide > > > > with > > > > > any posturing and bowing. > > > > > It's only your own resistance that stand in the way of > immediate > > > > > release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess it takes courage or mindlessness to be free. > > > > But then, we're free already so who needs courage or a mind? > > > > > > > > > > > > Correct > > > > Being correct has nothing to do with freedom. > > > > Saying that everyone is free from the beginning is just an idea > > overheard -- a repetition of gossip. (unless one knows one's being > > " prior to conditions " -- and fully within and as conditions: " from > > balls to bone " as the Oracle said to Neo.) > > > > True, this is not a personal possession, and doesn't depend on > > personally acquired qualities like courage or an imaginary mind of > > one's own. > > > > Yet, apart from your personal being as it is right now, there is no > > way to know this as is (not from an outside position). > > > > It's not by getting rid of one's personal being that truth is > > understood -- so back one comes to courage, commitment, and > > responsibility -- just no imputation of a separable being that does > > those things! > > > > -- Dan > > > > > So you'd like to be courageous, committed and responsible without > separable being? > Free your mind Dan! (As Morpheus said to Neo) > Is there such a thing as courage without separable being? > > 1500 The devil made her do it, burn the witch! > 1976 My ego makes me do it, but hey I'm innocent! > 2006 ....................................... > ** 2006- hey who cares what you actually said? If I twist it around, I can make a clever quip! Maybe the question is: can there be courage (or love, truth, compassion, honesty, responsibility, understanding, etc.) WITH separable being? Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Mats " <hyl894t@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Mats " <hyl894t@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > <Roberibus111@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The true teacher IS Freedom.......and he sets about to free > > you > > > > from > > > > > > ALL bondage from the first moment of contact. - He will not > > abide > > > > > with > > > > > > any posturing and bowing. > > > > > > It's only your own resistance that stand in the way of > > immediate > > > > > > release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess it takes courage or mindlessness to be free. > > > > > But then, we're free already so who needs courage or a mind? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Correct > > > > > > Being correct has nothing to do with freedom. > > > > > > Saying that everyone is free from the beginning is just an idea > > > overheard -- a repetition of gossip. (unless one knows one's being > > > " prior to conditions " -- and fully within and as conditions: " from > > > balls to bone " as the Oracle said to Neo.) > > > > > > True, this is not a personal possession, and doesn't depend on > > > personally acquired qualities like courage or an imaginary mind of > > > one's own. > > > > > > Yet, apart from your personal being as it is right now, there is no > > > way to know this as is (not from an outside position). > > > > > > It's not by getting rid of one's personal being that truth is > > > understood -- so back one comes to courage, commitment, and > > > responsibility -- just no imputation of a separable being that does > > > those things! > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > So you'd like to be courageous, committed and responsible without > > separable being? > > Free your mind Dan! (As Morpheus said to Neo) > > Is there such a thing as courage without separable being? > > > > 1500 The devil made her do it, burn the witch! > > 1976 My ego makes me do it, but hey I'm innocent! > > 2006 ....................................... > > > > ** 2006- hey who cares what you actually said? If I twist > it around, I can make a clever quip! > > Maybe the question is: can there be courage > (or love, truth, compassion, honesty, responsibility, > understanding, etc.) WITH separable being? > > Ken > Sure there is, it's the fundamental thing called love, or at least the first stage of (Love), when you're higher than a kite, and noOne can do anything wrong ;-) Remember???? Love, Ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Mats " <hyl894t@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Mats " <hyl894t@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > <Roberibus111@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The true teacher IS Freedom.......and he sets about to > free > > > you > > > > > from > > > > > > > ALL bondage from the first moment of contact. - He will > not > > > abide > > > > > > with > > > > > > > any posturing and bowing. > > > > > > > It's only your own resistance that stand in the way of > > > immediate > > > > > > > release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess it takes courage or mindlessness to be free. > > > > > > But then, we're free already so who needs courage or a > mind? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Correct > > > > > > > > Being correct has nothing to do with freedom. > > > > > > > > Saying that everyone is free from the beginning is just an idea > > > > overheard -- a repetition of gossip. (unless one knows one's > being > > > > " prior to conditions " -- and fully within and as > conditions: " from > > > > balls to bone " as the Oracle said to Neo.) > > > > > > > > True, this is not a personal possession, and doesn't depend on > > > > personally acquired qualities like courage or an imaginary > mind of > > > > one's own. > > > > > > > > Yet, apart from your personal being as it is right now, there > is no > > > > way to know this as is (not from an outside position). > > > > > > > > It's not by getting rid of one's personal being that truth is > > > > understood -- so back one comes to courage, commitment, and > > > > responsibility -- just no imputation of a separable being that > does > > > > those things! > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you'd like to be courageous, committed and responsible > without > > > separable being? > > > Free your mind Dan! (As Morpheus said to Neo) > > > Is there such a thing as courage without separable being? > > > > > > 1500 The devil made her do it, burn the witch! > > > 1976 My ego makes me do it, but hey I'm innocent! > > > 2006 ....................................... > > > > > > > ** 2006- hey who cares what you actually said? If I twist > > it around, I can make a clever quip! > > > > Maybe the question is: can there be courage > > (or love, truth, compassion, honesty, responsibility, > > understanding, etc.) WITH separable being? > > > > Ken > > > > > Sure there is, it's the fundamental thing called love, > > or at least the first stage of (Love), when you're higher than a > kite, > and noOne can do anything wrong ;-) Remember???? > > Love, > Ana > ** Yeah, dammit, I could have been me. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001 wrote: > > ** 2006- hey who cares what you actually said? If I twist > it around, I can make a clever quip! > > Maybe the question is: can there be courage > (or love, truth, compassion, honesty, responsibility, > understanding, etc.) WITH separable being? > > Ken Hey Ken -- Advaita has become pretty much a dodge to avoid responsibility at this point. Maybe because it was taken out of context, and tried to be made into an all-purpose answer for people who used it as a kind of " cognitive therapy " -- a new way to think about things, absolve themselves of guilt and anxiety, by telling themselves no one is there to be guilty. That's why I liked the Hakuin poem a lot. It speaks directly to that, to me. Shows the same issues have been going on since time immemorial, I guess. " Vanity of vanity, all is vanity, saith the preacher. " Ecclesiastes ;-) -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001@> wrote: > > > > > ** 2006- hey who cares what you actually said? If I twist > > it around, I can make a clever quip! > > > > Maybe the question is: can there be courage > > (or love, truth, compassion, honesty, responsibility, > > understanding, etc.) WITH separable being? > > > > Ken > > Hey Ken -- > > Advaita has become pretty much a dodge to avoid responsibility at this > point. Maybe because it was taken out of context, and tried to be > made into an all-purpose answer for people who used it as a kind of > " cognitive therapy " -- a new way to think about things, absolve > themselves of guilt and anxiety, by telling themselves no one is there > to be guilty. > > That's why I liked the Hakuin poem a lot. > > It speaks directly to that, to me. > > Shows the same issues have been going on since time immemorial, I guess. > > " Vanity of vanity, all is vanity, saith the preacher. " Ecclesiastes > > ;-) > > -- Dan :-))) There is no-one who's enlightened. Thinking is a rotten tree. Truth is thinnest of thin air. Poetry is Look-at-me ! and so are the many words of prose.....unabsolved of murdered truth...i am and yet am not chagrined......i have little to offer but these killer words.......for all the pretty world ......bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > Courage *is*, quite simply, the courage to let go of > > one's separateness, to " forget oneself " . > > > > The act of that fireman is not out of self-interest... > > it is an action that transcends self-interest. > > > > The vulnerability to be completely open to the moment > > without regard to self-interest... that in itself is > > the dissolution of separation, and that in itself is > > the essence of courage. > > > > Bill > > Well-said, Bill. > > Not something that can be taught. > > Something that is not a thing, yet acts and responds. > > The contraction against vulnerability in service to perceived > self-interest, is fear. > > And that fear has many forms and faces. > > It is the illness of the human being. > > And the resolution of that fear is through life itself. > > Going into and through the fear, not taking control of it and > eliminating it, not intellectualizing it away. > > Understanding it, and seeing how much of it involves self-division and > a refusal of life as it is. > > -- Dan > fear is the very maintenance of a perimeter... the guarding of an inner vs. outer. ..... especially struck by your: " a refusal of life as it is... " as if a wrestling to hold down one's very heart... and courage the daring to *let it go*! so maybe that perimeter is not to keep the hazards *out*, as it would seem, but to hold the heart *in*! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > .... > > > > especially struck by your: " a refusal of life as it is... " > > > > as if a wrestling to hold down one's very heart... > > > > and courage the daring to *let it go*! > > > > so maybe that perimeter is not to keep the hazards *out*, > > as it would seem, > > but to hold the heart *in*! > > > > > > Bill > > The fear that is me, is the fear of a broken heart, and broken life. > > The heart-breaking truth, the life-breaking truth. > > Truth is not for the stalwartly whole-hearted and whole-person. > > Truth is for the broken. > > So broken that there is no fix, clearly no fix, therefore all attempt > at a fix is dropped. > > The barrier, or perimeter as you call it, is an attempted " fix " - > as you say, a " fix " intended to hold me to myself, and to keep what > can hurt me at a distance. > > The courage of vulnerability is not the courage of the winner, the > victor. It is the courage to fully accept loss. Worldly courage is > about achieving gain through victory. It is what runs the world. > Spiritual courage is release of the attempt to achieve, to possess. > It overcomes the world not by winning over it, but by releasing it > while in the midst of it. > > -- D. Dan, am quite moved, as this is certainly one of -- if not *the* -- most beautiful thing I have seen written by you. Thank you. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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