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Emptiness/nondualism that denys dualism is false

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Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@>

> wrote:

>

> > For if life is the Guru, the Guru often appears

> > in the form of " others " .

> >

> > And if, eventually, those " others " no longer really

> > seem to be *other*, if the depth of the other and

> > one's own depth are the same, if the love in the other

> > and one's own love are the same, if the spirit in the

> > other and one's own spirit are the same... then

> > perhaps the veil of separation has been dropped...

> >

> > But until then, there is so much learning, so

> > much growing to be found in opening to the challenge

> > presented by " another " .

> >

> >

> > Bill

>

> " Hell is other people, " Jean Paul Sartre

>

> Yes, the challenge is what hits you in the face, even as one side-

steps.

>

> It can't be avoided.

>

> Advaita talk being used to avoid the challenge of this as is,

> including the otherness, is devoid of heart.

 

Love what you say about heart here.

 

>

> I am the world. I am self and other.

>

> This is embraced from before beginning.

>

> And only as this is so, is it true that no self nor other ever

existed.

>

> It is here, in the midst of our relating, emoting, and day to day

> experiencing - the stillness, the contactless true-being.

>

> -- Dan

 

yes

 

the true stillness is the stillness that obtains

*within the fire*.

 

the nondualism that denys dualism is false.

 

the nondualism that transcends dualism is true.

 

 

Bill

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In a message dated 6/4/2006 12:35:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

pliantheart writes:

 

> >

> >Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@>

> >wrote:

> >

> >>For if life is the Guru, the Guru often appears

> >>in the form of " others " .

> >>

> >>And if, eventually, those " others " no longer really

> >>seem to be *other*, if the depth of the other and

> >>one's own depth are the same, if the love in the other

> >>and one's own love are the same, if the spirit in the

> >>other and one's own spirit are the same... then

> >>perhaps the veil of separation has been dropped...

> >>

> >>But until then, there is so much learning, so

> >>much growing to be found in opening to the challenge

> >>presented by " another " .

> >>

> >>

> >>Bill

> >

> > " Hell is other people, " Jean Paul Sartre

> >

> >Yes, the challenge is what hits you in the face, even as one side-

> steps.

> >

> >It can't be avoided.

> >

> >Advaita talk being used to avoid the challenge of this as is,

> >including the otherness, is devoid of heart.

 

>

> Love what you say about heart here.

>

> >

> >I am the world. I am self and other.

> >

> >This is embraced from before beginning.

> >

> >And only as this is so, is it true that no self nor other ever

> existed.

> >

> >It is here, in the midst of our relating, emoting, and day to day

> >experiencing - the stillness, the contactless true-being.

> >

> >-- Dan

>

> yes

>

> the true stillness is the stillness that obtains

> *within the fire*.

>

> the nondualism that denys dualism is false.

>

> the nondualism that transcends dualism is true.

>

>

> Bill

>

>

L.E: It's very nice to know you all a little bit. Such sweet music.

 

 

 

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In a message dated 6/4/2006 7:41:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

bigwaaba writes:

 

>

> Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart

> wrote:

> >

> >Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@>

> >wrote:

> >>

> >>Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@>

> >>wrote:

> >>

> >>>For if life is the Guru, the Guru often appears

> >>>in the form of " others " .

> >>>

> >>>And if, eventually, those " others " no longer really

> >>>seem to be *other*, if the depth of the other and

> >>>one's own depth are the same, if the love in the other

> >>>and one's own love are the same, if the spirit in the

> >>>other and one's own spirit are the same... then

> >>>perhaps the veil of separation has been dropped...

> >>>

> >>>But until then, there is so much learning, so

> >>>much growing to be found in opening to the challenge

> >>>presented by " another " .

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>Bill

> >>

> >> " Hell is other people, " Jean Paul Sartre

> >>

> >>Yes, the challenge is what hits you in the face, even as one side-

> >steps.

> >>

> >>It can't be avoided.

> >>

> >>Advaita talk being used to avoid the challenge of this as is,

> >>including the otherness, is devoid of heart.

> >

> >Love what you say about heart here.

> >

> >>

> >>I am the world. I am self and other.

> >>

> >>This is embraced from before beginning.

> >>

> >>And only as this is so, is it true that no self nor other ever

> >existed.

> >>

> >>It is here, in the midst of our relating, emoting, and day to day

> >>experiencing - the stillness, the contactless true-being.

> >>

> >>-- Dan

> >

> >yes

> >

> >the true stillness is the stillness that obtains

> >*within the fire*.

> >

> >the nondualism that denys dualism is false.

> >

> >the nondualism that transcends dualism is true.

> >

> >

> >Bill

> >

>

>

> yes, to be beyond is not to deny

 

L.E: To be beyond is to have nothing to say, nothing to write, nothing to

think. Who is speaking here?

 

 

 

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In a message dated 6/4/2006 8:21:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

bigwaaba writes:

 

> >L.E: To be beyond is to have nothing to say, nothing to write,

> nothing to

> >think. Who is speaking here?

>

> Noone

 

L. E: That's one to many.

 

 

 

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In a message dated 6/4/2006 8:25:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

Roberibus111 writes:

 

> >L.E: To be beyond is to have nothing to say, nothing to write,

> >nothing to

> >>think. Who is speaking here?

> >

> >Noone

>

>

> and so no-one replied!

>

>

>

L.E: What did you say?

 

 

 

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In a message dated 6/4/2006 8:30:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

bigwaaba writes:

 

> >L.E: To be beyond is to have nothing to say, nothing to write,

> >>>nothing to

> >>>>think. Who is speaking here?

> >>>

> >>>Noone

> >>

> >>

> >>and so no-one replied!

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >L.E: What did you say?

> >

>

> It is not a reply

>

> it is the same thing looked by different point

>

>

> L.E: What did you say? Ha ha!

>

 

 

 

 

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Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > For if life is the Guru, the Guru often appears

> > > in the form of " others " .

> > >

> > > And if, eventually, those " others " no longer really

> > > seem to be *other*, if the depth of the other and

> > > one's own depth are the same, if the love in the other

> > > and one's own love are the same, if the spirit in the

> > > other and one's own spirit are the same... then

> > > perhaps the veil of separation has been dropped...

> > >

> > > But until then, there is so much learning, so

> > > much growing to be found in opening to the challenge

> > > presented by " another " .

> > >

> > >

> > > Bill

> >

> > " Hell is other people, " Jean Paul Sartre

> >

> > Yes, the challenge is what hits you in the face, even as one side-

> steps.

> >

> > It can't be avoided.

> >

> > Advaita talk being used to avoid the challenge of this as is,

> > including the otherness, is devoid of heart.

>

> Love what you say about heart here.

>

> >

> > I am the world. I am self and other.

> >

> > This is embraced from before beginning.

> >

> > And only as this is so, is it true that no self nor other ever

> existed.

> >

> > It is here, in the midst of our relating, emoting, and day to day

> > experiencing - the stillness, the contactless true-being.

> >

> > -- Dan

>

> yes

>

> the true stillness is the stillness that obtains

> *within the fire*.

>

> the nondualism that denys dualism is false.

>

> the nondualism that transcends dualism is true.

>

>

> Bill

>

 

 

yes, to be beyond is not to deny

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Nisargadatta , epston wrote:

>

> In a message dated 6/4/2006 7:41:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> bigwaaba writes:

>

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > >Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@>

> > >wrote:

> > >>

> > >>Nisargadatta , " pliantheart "

<pliantheart@>

> > >>wrote:

> > >>

> > >>>For if life is the Guru, the Guru often appears

> > >>>in the form of " others " .

> > >>>

> > >>>And if, eventually, those " others " no longer really

> > >>>seem to be *other*, if the depth of the other and

> > >>>one's own depth are the same, if the love in the other

> > >>>and one's own love are the same, if the spirit in the

> > >>>other and one's own spirit are the same... then

> > >>>perhaps the veil of separation has been dropped...

> > >>>

> > >>>But until then, there is so much learning, so

> > >>>much growing to be found in opening to the challenge

> > >>>presented by " another " .

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>Bill

> > >>

> > >> " Hell is other people, " Jean Paul Sartre

> > >>

> > >>Yes, the challenge is what hits you in the face, even as one

side-

> > >steps.

> > >>

> > >>It can't be avoided.

> > >>

> > >>Advaita talk being used to avoid the challenge of this as is,

> > >>including the otherness, is devoid of heart.

> > >

> > >Love what you say about heart here.

> > >

> > >>

> > >>I am the world. I am self and other.

> > >>

> > >>This is embraced from before beginning.

> > >>

> > >>And only as this is so, is it true that no self nor other ever

> > >existed.

> > >>

> > >>It is here, in the midst of our relating, emoting, and day to

day

> > >>experiencing - the stillness, the contactless true-being.

> > >>

> > >>-- Dan

> > >

> > >yes

> > >

> > >the true stillness is the stillness that obtains

> > >*within the fire*.

> > >

> > >the nondualism that denys dualism is false.

> > >

> > >the nondualism that transcends dualism is true.

> > >

> > >

> > >Bill

> > >

> >

> >

> > yes, to be beyond is not to deny

>

> L.E: To be beyond is to have nothing to say, nothing to write,

nothing to

> think. Who is speaking here?

 

Noone

 

 

>

>

>

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Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 6/4/2006 7:41:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > bigwaaba@ writes:

> >

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart "

<pliantheart@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > >Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@>

> > > >wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >>Nisargadatta , " pliantheart "

> <pliantheart@>

> > > >>wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >>>For if life is the Guru, the Guru often appears

> > > >>>in the form of " others " .

> > > >>>

> > > >>>And if, eventually, those " others " no longer really

> > > >>>seem to be *other*, if the depth of the other and

> > > >>>one's own depth are the same, if the love in the other

> > > >>>and one's own love are the same, if the spirit in the

> > > >>>other and one's own spirit are the same... then

> > > >>>perhaps the veil of separation has been dropped...

> > > >>>

> > > >>>But until then, there is so much learning, so

> > > >>>much growing to be found in opening to the challenge

> > > >>>presented by " another " .

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>Bill

> > > >>

> > > >> " Hell is other people, " Jean Paul Sartre

> > > >>

> > > >>Yes, the challenge is what hits you in the face, even as one

> side-

> > > >steps.

> > > >>

> > > >>It can't be avoided.

> > > >>

> > > >>Advaita talk being used to avoid the challenge of this as is,

> > > >>including the otherness, is devoid of heart.

> > > >

> > > >Love what you say about heart here.

> > > >

> > > >>

> > > >>I am the world. I am self and other.

> > > >>

> > > >>This is embraced from before beginning.

> > > >>

> > > >>And only as this is so, is it true that no self nor other

ever

> > > >existed.

> > > >>

> > > >>It is here, in the midst of our relating, emoting, and day to

> day

> > > >>experiencing - the stillness, the contactless true-being.

> > > >>

> > > >>-- Dan

> > > >

> > > >yes

> > > >

> > > >the true stillness is the stillness that obtains

> > > >*within the fire*.

> > > >

> > > >the nondualism that denys dualism is false.

> > > >

> > > >the nondualism that transcends dualism is true.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >Bill

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > yes, to be beyond is not to deny

> >

> > L.E: To be beyond is to have nothing to say, nothing to write,

> nothing to

> > think. Who is speaking here?

>

> Noone

 

 

and so no-one replied!

 

 

> >

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Nisargadatta , epston wrote:

>

> In a message dated 6/4/2006 8:25:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> Roberibus111 writes:

>

> > >L.E: To be beyond is to have nothing to say, nothing to write,

> > >nothing to

> > >>think. Who is speaking here?

> > >

> > >Noone

> >

> >

> > and so no-one replied!

> >

> >

> >

> L.E: What did you say?

>

 

It is not a reply

 

it is the same thing looked by different point

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Nisargadatta , epston wrote:

>

> In a message dated 6/4/2006 8:30:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> bigwaaba writes:

>

> > >L.E: To be beyond is to have nothing to say, nothing to write,

> > >>>nothing to

> > >>>>think. Who is speaking here?

> > >>>

> > >>>Noone

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>and so no-one replied!

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >L.E: What did you say?

> > >

> >

> > It is not a reply

> >

> > it is the same thing looked by different point

> >

> >

> > L.E: What did you say? Ha ha!

 

you have eyes to see

and ears to hear

 

and a heart to love

 

 

>

>

>

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Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart

wrote:

 

> yes

>

> the true stillness is the stillness that obtains

> *within the fire*.

>

> the nondualism that denys dualism is false.

>

> the nondualism that transcends dualism is true.

>

>

> Bill

 

Yes.

 

And in transcending it returns -- and has forgotten its name.

 

- Dan

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Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@>

> wrote:

>

> > yes

> >

> > the true stillness is the stillness that obtains

> > *within the fire*.

> >

> > the nondualism that denys dualism is false.

> >

> > the nondualism that transcends dualism is true.

> >

> >

> > Bill

>

> Yes.

>

> And in transcending it returns -- and has forgotten its name.

>

> - Dan

>

 

 

It becomes a river.......that flows into itself.

 

 

toombaru

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Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > yes

> > >

> > > the true stillness is the stillness that obtains

> > > *within the fire*.

> > >

> > > the nondualism that denys dualism is false.

> > >

> > > the nondualism that transcends dualism is true.

> > >

> > >

> > > Bill

> >

> > Yes.

> >

> > And in transcending it returns -- and has forgotten its name.

> >

> > - Dan

> >

>

>

> It becomes a river.......that flows into itself.

>

>

> toombaru

 

 

 

sort of the Perpetuum Mobile Triumphans by Orffyreus

 

 

......bob

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Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > yes

> > >

> > > the true stillness is the stillness that obtains

> > > *within the fire*.

> > >

> > > the nondualism that denys dualism is false.

> > >

> > > the nondualism that transcends dualism is true.

> > >

> > >

> > > Bill

> >

> > Yes.

> >

> > And in transcending it returns -- and has forgotten its name.

> >

> > - Dan

> >

>

>

> It becomes a river.......that flows into itself.

>

>

> toombaru

>

 

Love pouring Love into Love

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Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart "

<pliantheart@>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > yes

> > > >

> > > > the true stillness is the stillness that obtains

> > > > *within the fire*.

> > > >

> > > > the nondualism that denys dualism is false.

> > > >

> > > > the nondualism that transcends dualism is true.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Bill

> > >

> > > Yes.

> > >

> > > And in transcending it returns -- and has forgotten its name.

> > >

> > > - Dan

> > >

> >

> >

> > It becomes a river.......that flows into itself.

> >

> >

> > toombaru

> >

>

> Love pouring Love into Love

 

 

Love it

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In a message dated 6/4/2006 4:19:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

kenj02001 writes:

 

>

> Nisargadatta , epston wrote:

> >

> >In a message dated 6/4/2006 8:21:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> >bigwaaba writes:

> >

> >>>L.E: To be beyond is to have nothing to say, nothing to write,

> >>nothing to

> >>>think. Who is speaking here?

> >>

> >>Noone

> >

> >L. E: That's one to many.

> >

> >

> > Ha, good one.

>

> But I'm not giving you a pass on attempting

> to trash Krishnamurti and Judi. Bob neither, lol.

> >

> Ken

>

>

> L.E: I don't need or want your pass. I have a shotgun.

BANG! Did my " attempt " succeed or fail? Does it matter?

Who cares?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Nisargadatta , epston wrote:

>

> In a message dated 6/4/2006 8:21:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> bigwaaba writes:

>

> > >L.E: To be beyond is to have nothing to say, nothing to write,

> > nothing to

> > >think. Who is speaking here?

> >

> > Noone

>

> L. E: That's one to many.

>

>

> Ha, good one.

 

But I'm not giving you a pass on attempting

to trash Krishnamurti and Judi. Bob neither, lol.

>

Ken

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Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 6/4/2006 8:21:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > bigwaaba@ writes:

> >

> > > >L.E: To be beyond is to have nothing to say, nothing to write,

> > > nothing to

> > > >think. Who is speaking here?

> > >

> > > Noone

> >

> > L. E: That's one to many.

> >

> >

> > Ha, good one.

>

> But I'm not giving you a pass on attempting

> to trash Krishnamurti and Judi. Bob neither, lol.

> >

> Ken

 

 

:-) ;-) :-))))

ROFLMAO!............

 

Thanks Ken....Actually, Bob's getting a kick out of being trashed by

trash lately......it's a wierd and wonderful and uncanny thing

really, to see the bunching of the trashbags acting so clean and

cool.......such refinement calling people pschycotic murderers and

armed robbers and egomaniacal whatsthefuckingworstthingicanthinkof

thingy.....and when Bob sends it right back...he's an

asshole......Holy Petunias! it's a fucking riot!...I mean it's

presenting more laughs than a bag full of funky mionkeys crying for

their momma to come home and learn them a thing or two or three

or...er...wait..two is about all the things they can learn on any

given annual basis...hehehehe.....I'm SO not sorry too.Twinkies with

nice lookin' king kings I'm sure but the assholes are puckering you

can count on it.

 

......bob

 

(Who has no goddamn right to fight back mommy! make him stop!

PLEASE....make him stop hitting us back...that's not fair!!!!)

 

 

Ho God!........where DO they come from?

 

(bn)

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Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote:

> > >

> > > In a message dated 6/4/2006 8:21:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > > bigwaaba@ writes:

> > >

> > > > >L.E: To be beyond is to have nothing to say, nothing to write,

> > > > nothing to

> > > > >think. Who is speaking here?

> > > >

> > > > Noone

> > >

> > > L. E: That's one to many.

> > >

> > >

> > > Ha, good one.

> >

> > But I'm not giving you a pass on attempting

> > to trash Krishnamurti and Judi. Bob neither, lol.

> > >

> > Ken

>

>

> :-) ;-) :-))))

> ROFLMAO!............

>

> Thanks Ken....Actually, Bob's getting a kick out of being trashed by

> trash lately......it's a wierd and wonderful and uncanny thing

> really, to see the bunching of the trashbags acting so clean and

> cool.......such refinement calling people pschycotic murderers and

> armed robbers and egomaniacal whatsthefuckingworstthingicanthinkof

> thingy.....and when Bob sends it right back...he's an

> asshole......Holy Petunias! it's a fucking riot!...I mean it's

> presenting more laughs than a bag full of funky mionkeys crying for

> their momma to come home and learn them a thing or two or three

> or...er...wait..two is about all the things they can learn on any

> given annual basis...hehehehe.....I'm SO not sorry too.Twinkies with

> nice lookin' king kings I'm sure but the assholes are puckering you

> can count on it.

>

> ......bob

>

> (Who has no goddamn right to fight back mommy! make him stop!

> PLEASE....make him stop hitting us back...that's not fair!!!!)

>

>

> Ho God!........where DO they come from?

>

> (bn)

>

 

** Can't help ya, Bob. Not an issue for me, not saying there

couldn't be an issue that transits here.

 

But hey, even the flight of vultures leaves no trace.

 

(Not calling anyone a 'vulture,' btw.)

 

K.

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Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > For if life is the Guru, the Guru often appears

> > > in the form of " others " .

> > >

> > > And if, eventually, those " others " no longer really

> > > seem to be *other*, if the depth of the other and

> > > one's own depth are the same, if the love in the other

> > > and one's own love are the same, if the spirit in the

> > > other and one's own spirit are the same... then

> > > perhaps the veil of separation has been dropped...

> > >

> > > But until then, there is so much learning, so

> > > much growing to be found in opening to the challenge

> > > presented by " another " .

> > >

> > >

> > > Bill

> >

> > " Hell is other people, " Jean Paul Sartre

> >

> > Yes, the challenge is what hits you in the face, even as one

side-

> steps.

> >

> > It can't be avoided.

> >

> > Advaita talk being used to avoid the challenge of this as is,

> > including the otherness, is devoid of heart.

>

> Love what you say about heart here.

>

> >

> > I am the world. I am self and other.

> >

> > This is embraced from before beginning.

> >

> > And only as this is so, is it true that no self nor other ever

> existed.

> >

> > It is here, in the midst of our relating, emoting, and day to day

> > experiencing - the stillness, the contactless true-being.

> >

> > -- Dan

>

> yes

>

> the true stillness is the stillness that obtains

> *within the fire*.

>

> the nondualism that denys dualism is false.

>

> the nondualism that transcends dualism is true.

>

>

> Bill

 

 

I don`t know why but I feel prompted to add :

as long as one wants to gain, obtain,

one`s is only going to obtain more time,

more suffering, more karma.

 

Patricia

>

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Nisargadatta , " gdtige " <gdtige wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > For if life is the Guru, the Guru often appears

> > > > in the form of " others " .

> > > >

> > > > And if, eventually, those " others " no longer really

> > > > seem to be *other*, if the depth of the other and

> > > > one's own depth are the same, if the love in the other

> > > > and one's own love are the same, if the spirit in the

> > > > other and one's own spirit are the same... then

> > > > perhaps the veil of separation has been dropped...

> > > >

> > > > But until then, there is so much learning, so

> > > > much growing to be found in opening to the challenge

> > > > presented by " another " .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Bill

> > >

> > > " Hell is other people, " Jean Paul Sartre

> > >

> > > Yes, the challenge is what hits you in the face, even as one

> side-

> > steps.

> > >

> > > It can't be avoided.

> > >

> > > Advaita talk being used to avoid the challenge of this as is,

> > > including the otherness, is devoid of heart.

> >

> > Love what you say about heart here.

> >

> > >

> > > I am the world. I am self and other.

> > >

> > > This is embraced from before beginning.

> > >

> > > And only as this is so, is it true that no self nor other ever

> > existed.

> > >

> > > It is here, in the midst of our relating, emoting, and day to day

> > > experiencing - the stillness, the contactless true-being.

> > >

> > > -- Dan

> >

> > yes

> >

> > the true stillness is the stillness that obtains

> > *within the fire*.

> >

> > the nondualism that denys dualism is false.

> >

> > the nondualism that transcends dualism is true.

> >

> >

> > Bill

>

>

> I don`t know why but I feel prompted to add :

> as long as one wants to gain, obtain,

> one`s is only going to obtain more time,

> more suffering, more karma.

>

> Patricia

> >

>

 

 

Yes, I have pondered that paradox myself. At what point is one

seeking, at what point giving up the search, at what point giving up

the search in order to proceed with the search, but from another

angle? Only poets and Jesuits would attempt an answer.

 

But for me, it is very clearly a question of What I want to gain. Is

it an object, an objective, a spirit or a permanent state? Again,

these terms are open for debate. But my answer has always been,

dedication to a particular process I would call thriving, for the

moment, a panoply of other names for my journal.

 

I find that I do, indeed, become what I focus on. My focus on being

freedom yields freedom, love yields love, witnessing, witnessing. For

me, mantras do, have, and continue to, work.

 

Sorry, but no paradox here. Although I do believe paradox does have

it's crucial place in this realm. Where to find it, well, that might

have to be, itself, a paradoxical.

 

warmth

~*~

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<snip>

 

> > > >

> > > > Paradoxes use to drive me very mad.

> > > > Then, in them, I started to perceive the reflection of

> > > > what I am attracted to:

> > > > Playing, lulling me about, in their wake.

> > > > Making me come closer only to whisper : this isn`t it

> > > > yet, you know it, don`t you?

> > > > Each time I realize that it isn`t it yet, the path

> > > > narrows down.

> > > > What matters here is my yielding but also the fact

> > > > that their is a more subtle attunement to what I love

> > > > : to who I am.

> > > > I know that I will not find it, yet I stay

> > > > on...listening..walking..sharing..

> > > > Makes sense?

> > > > Most likely not.

> > > >

> > > > A little white cloud of tenderness for that big open

> > > > sky.

> > > >

> > > > Patricia

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > Thank you, the foreground and the background are one in radiance and

> > > harmony.

> > >

> > > Makes total sense in as much as I feel I recognize it

unambiguously in

> > > myself.

> > >

> > > This may sound pretty cheap, but have you ever told yourself,

neither

> > > " will I find it? " , nor " I won't find it, " but, literally and

> > > repeatedly, " I am It " ? I mean, you know you are, so why not

commit to

> > > burgeoning as it? Right now?

> > >

> > > Just asking.

> > >

> > > Beaming

> > > Humbly

> > > With

> > > It

> > > ~*~

> >

> > Yo! Bro!

> >

> > thazit!

> >

> > and maybe that is what you mean by " choosing " ...

> >

> > the step into the center of that cyclone

> >

> > and saying YES! to it all

> >

>

>

>

>

> Yeah, because " choosing " is the experience of freedom, right? And

> that experience of freedom is like flight, like being above it all,

> like perfect perspective. And that IS what " you " are, we are, etc.

>

> When you say,

>

> " and so then, what is interesting -- from my view -- is to

> dissolve focus altogether... let focus get totally soft and to

> totally expand... so that focus encompasses all there is.

> And so the observer, the witness is as a melted goo folded back

> into the batter of Life. The witness has lost its distinction

> as witness because focus is no longer defining a 'that' vs. 'this'.

>

> In other words, I love to let the witness dissolve through its

> own process of witnessing... back into the murky primal beginnings

> from which it arose.

>

> When I was quite young and had a chance to play with a TV camera

> I found delight in pointing the camera into the monitor. Much fun!

> I love to loop things back into themselves so that they undergo

> wierd, crazy fusions. I like to break the rules, undercut the ground,

> push the system to a kind of melt-down. "

>

> Who or what is it that has all that perspective and clarity? It's the

> uber or super or higher witness, the one you really are. The one that

> experienced no melt-down at all, could see it quite clearly.

>

> Right?

>

> ~*~

>

 

 

I notice that the fundamental line in what you write there

is the " seeing of " ... (hence the witness notion as primary)

 

But on my end... it is the *dynamic* that is primary.

 

I continually reject concerns about what-is-the-case

as stagnant, stale, static.

 

The YES! above has that dynamic.

 

To me the fundmental is Life, not observation,

and not any what-is-the-case.

 

To your:

" Who or what is it that has all that perspective and clarity? "

my reply is, why assume there's a " who " behind it all?

I am not compelled by any assumption that there must

be an agent behind it all.

 

It's just Life.

 

And Life needs no higher uber-Life to explain it.

 

The perspective and clarity is not " owned " by anything...

it is just an emergent property...

 

Life is just dancing...

 

and any qualities that seem to come out of that

just seem to come out of that...

 

 

Bill

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Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart

wrote:

>

> <snip>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Paradoxes use to drive me very mad.

> > > > > Then, in them, I started to perceive the reflection of

> > > > > what I am attracted to:

> > > > > Playing, lulling me about, in their wake.

> > > > > Making me come closer only to whisper : this isn`t it

> > > > > yet, you know it, don`t you?

> > > > > Each time I realize that it isn`t it yet, the path

> > > > > narrows down.

> > > > > What matters here is my yielding but also the fact

> > > > > that their is a more subtle attunement to what I love

> > > > > : to who I am.

> > > > > I know that I will not find it, yet I stay

> > > > > on...listening..walking..sharing..

> > > > > Makes sense?

> > > > > Most likely not.

> > > > >

> > > > > A little white cloud of tenderness for that big open

> > > > > sky.

> > > > >

> > > > > Patricia

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > Thank you, the foreground and the background are one in

radiance and

> > > > harmony.

> > > >

> > > > Makes total sense in as much as I feel I recognize it

> unambiguously in

> > > > myself.

> > > >

> > > > This may sound pretty cheap, but have you ever told yourself,

> neither

> > > > " will I find it? " , nor " I won't find it, " but, literally and

> > > > repeatedly, " I am It " ? I mean, you know you are, so why not

> commit to

> > > > burgeoning as it? Right now?

> > > >

> > > > Just asking.

> > > >

> > > > Beaming

> > > > Humbly

> > > > With

> > > > It

> > > > ~*~

> > >

> > > Yo! Bro!

> > >

> > > thazit!

> > >

> > > and maybe that is what you mean by " choosing " ...

> > >

> > > the step into the center of that cyclone

> > >

> > > and saying YES! to it all

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Yeah, because " choosing " is the experience of freedom, right? And

> > that experience of freedom is like flight, like being above it all,

> > like perfect perspective. And that IS what " you " are, we are, etc.

> >

> > When you say,

> >

> > " and so then, what is interesting -- from my view -- is to

> > dissolve focus altogether... let focus get totally soft and to

> > totally expand... so that focus encompasses all there is.

> > And so the observer, the witness is as a melted goo folded back

> > into the batter of Life. The witness has lost its distinction

> > as witness because focus is no longer defining a 'that' vs. 'this'.

> >

> > In other words, I love to let the witness dissolve through its

> > own process of witnessing... back into the murky primal beginnings

> > from which it arose.

> >

> > When I was quite young and had a chance to play with a TV camera

> > I found delight in pointing the camera into the monitor. Much fun!

> > I love to loop things back into themselves so that they undergo

> > wierd, crazy fusions. I like to break the rules, undercut the ground,

> > push the system to a kind of melt-down. "

> >

> > Who or what is it that has all that perspective and clarity? It's the

> > uber or super or higher witness, the one you really are. The one that

> > experienced no melt-down at all, could see it quite clearly.

> >

> > Right?

> >

> > ~*~

> >

>

>

> I notice that the fundamental line in what you write there

> is the " seeing of " ... (hence the witness notion as primary)

>

> But on my end... it is the *dynamic* that is primary.

>

> I continually reject concerns about what-is-the-case

> as stagnant, stale, static.

>

> The YES! above has that dynamic.

>

> To me the fundmental is Life, not observation,

> and not any what-is-the-case.

>

> To your:

> " Who or what is it that has all that perspective and clarity? "

> my reply is, why assume there's a " who " behind it all?

> I am not compelled by any assumption that there must

> be an agent behind it all.

>

> It's just Life.

>

> And Life needs no higher uber-Life to explain it.

>

> The perspective and clarity is not " owned " by anything...

> it is just an emergent property...

>

> Life is just dancing...

>

> and any qualities that seem to come out of that

> just seem to come out of that...

>

>

> Bill

>

 

 

I'm not disputing any of that. I'm just saying, that it's still you

observing everything you've just said.

 

There is the " life is just dancing... " and there is the One that

notices that. No need to privilege one over the other, the seen over

the seer nor the seer over the seen.

 

I'm just asking for acknowledgment that the seeing is seeing, not that

the seen is the seeing. Otherwise, I feel, we're getting ahead of

ourselves.

 

~*~

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<snip>

 

> > > >

> > > > Yo! Bro!

> > > >

> > > > thazit!

> > > >

> > > > and maybe that is what you mean by " choosing " ...

> > > >

> > > > the step into the center of that cyclone

> > > >

> > > > and saying YES! to it all

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Yeah, because " choosing " is the experience of freedom, right? And

> > > that experience of freedom is like flight, like being above it all,

> > > like perfect perspective. And that IS what " you " are, we are, etc.

> > >

> > > When you say,

> > >

> > > " and so then, what is interesting -- from my view -- is to

> > > dissolve focus altogether... let focus get totally soft and to

> > > totally expand... so that focus encompasses all there is.

> > > And so the observer, the witness is as a melted goo folded back

> > > into the batter of Life. The witness has lost its distinction

> > > as witness because focus is no longer defining a 'that' vs. 'this'.

> > >

> > > In other words, I love to let the witness dissolve through its

> > > own process of witnessing... back into the murky primal beginnings

> > > from which it arose.

> > >

> > > When I was quite young and had a chance to play with a TV camera

> > > I found delight in pointing the camera into the monitor. Much fun!

> > > I love to loop things back into themselves so that they undergo

> > > wierd, crazy fusions. I like to break the rules, undercut the

ground,

> > > push the system to a kind of melt-down. "

> > >

> > > Who or what is it that has all that perspective and clarity?

It's the

> > > uber or super or higher witness, the one you really are. The

one that

> > > experienced no melt-down at all, could see it quite clearly.

> > >

> > > Right?

> > >

> > > ~*~

> > >

> >

> >

> > I notice that the fundamental line in what you write there

> > is the " seeing of " ... (hence the witness notion as primary)

> >

> > But on my end... it is the *dynamic* that is primary.

> >

> > I continually reject concerns about what-is-the-case

> > as stagnant, stale, static.

> >

> > The YES! above has that dynamic.

> >

> > To me the fundmental is Life, not observation,

> > and not any what-is-the-case.

> >

> > To your:

> > " Who or what is it that has all that perspective and clarity? "

> > my reply is, why assume there's a " who " behind it all?

> > I am not compelled by any assumption that there must

> > be an agent behind it all.

> >

> > It's just Life.

> >

> > And Life needs no higher uber-Life to explain it.

> >

> > The perspective and clarity is not " owned " by anything...

> > it is just an emergent property...

> >

> > Life is just dancing...

> >

> > and any qualities that seem to come out of that

> > just seem to come out of that...

> >

> >

> > Bill

> >

>

>

> I'm not disputing any of that. I'm just saying, that it's still you

> observing everything you've just said.

>

> There is the " life is just dancing... " and there is the One that

> notices that. No need to privilege one over the other, the seen over

> the seer nor the seer over the seen.

>

> I'm just asking for acknowledgment that the seeing is seeing,

 

You have conveyed the notion of " I am " in a way that I haven't

encountered before. I have been considering it in " the lab " . I

find it quite interesting. My curiousity is piqued.

 

But I don't see it as a matter of acknowledgement that the

seeing is seeing.

 

Really it is a matter of all of this being absorbed and coming out

in its own way.

 

There is no " I " here that has control of any of this.

 

I'll just have to get back to you.

 

For now it is a matter of digesting.

 

> not that

> the seen is the seeing. Otherwise, I feel, we're getting ahead of

> ourselves.

 

I wonder what you mean.

 

Bill

 

> ~*~

>

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