Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 The Heart is the Thunder of Now The piercing Essence of Presence It cannot be touched, known, or seen yet there is nothing that is not Its knowing, touching, and seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > > The Heart is the Thunder of Now > The piercing Essence of Presence > It cannot be touched, known, or seen > yet there is nothing that is not Its > knowing, touching, and seeing. > As you say, so it is. ~*~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > > The Heart is the Thunder of Now > The piercing Essence of Presence > It cannot be touched, known, or seen > yet there is nothing that is not Its > knowing, touching, and seeing. > Naming that " hmm,hmm " as heart then what is the advantage compared with not naming it ? Is the " hmm,hmm " kinda flower which only can blossom when planted in the soil of naming ? Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > > > The Heart is the Thunder of Now > > The piercing Essence of Presence > > It cannot be touched, known, or seen > > yet there is nothing that is not Its > > knowing, touching, and seeing. > > > > > Naming that " hmm,hmm " as heart then what is the advantage compared > with not naming it ? > > Is the " hmm,hmm " kinda flower which only can blossom when planted in > the soil of naming ? > > Werner > Naming happens. There is naming of naming and unnaming and not naming. Naming can be named whatever one names. ~*~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > > > The Heart is the Thunder of Now > > The piercing Essence of Presence > > It cannot be touched, known, or seen > > yet there is nothing that is not Its > > knowing, touching, and seeing. > > > > > Naming that " hmm,hmm " as heart then what is the advantage compared > with not naming it ? > > Is the " hmm,hmm " kinda flower which only can blossom when planted in > the soil of naming ? > > Werner > your questions arise from mind. what is written there does not. hence not a jive for you. to see what I mean, the issue of " advantage " is a mind thing, an analysis thing. and your entire line of questioning hinges on the notion of " advantage " . what is written above, however, side-steps all of that, is indifferent to all of that. you, of course, are not indifferent to all of that (else you would not have brought it up!), no you will naturally be dissatisfied with what is written there. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > The Heart is the Thunder of Now > > > The piercing Essence of Presence > > > It cannot be touched, known, or seen > > > yet there is nothing that is not Its > > > knowing, touching, and seeing. > > > > > > > > > Naming that " hmm,hmm " as heart then what is the advantage compared > > with not naming it ? > > > > Is the " hmm,hmm " kinda flower which only can blossom when planted > in > > the soil of naming ? > > > > Werner > > > > your questions arise from mind. > what is written there does not. > hence not a jive for you. > > to see what I mean, the issue of " advantage " > is a mind thing, an analysis thing. > > and your entire line of questioning hinges > on the notion of " advantage " . > > what is written above, however, side-steps > all of that, is indifferent to all of that. > > you, of course, are not indifferent to all of > that (else you would not have brought it up!), > no you will naturally be dissatisfied with > what is written there. > > Bill > Ok, Bill, Indeed, I am dissatisfied. I will put it differently. Isn't the " hmm,hmm, heart " a very private affair ? A very delicate, sensitive blossom ? Why to catapult it into the public ? Could it be that the " heart " in some way is part of your self-image, Bill-the guy-with-heart ? " conscious virtue is vanity " . J.K. Can one teach or preach the " heart " ? Can one proselytize the " heart " ? Can one distribute the " heart " or write a book about it ? Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The Heart is the Thunder of Now > > > > The piercing Essence of Presence > > > > It cannot be touched, known, or seen > > > > yet there is nothing that is not Its > > > > knowing, touching, and seeing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Naming that " hmm,hmm " as heart then what is the advantage > compared > > > with not naming it ? > > > > > > Is the " hmm,hmm " kinda flower which only can blossom when planted > > in > > > the soil of naming ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > your questions arise from mind. > > what is written there does not. > > hence not a jive for you. > > > > to see what I mean, the issue of " advantage " > > is a mind thing, an analysis thing. > > > > and your entire line of questioning hinges > > on the notion of " advantage " . > > > > what is written above, however, side-steps > > all of that, is indifferent to all of that. > > > > you, of course, are not indifferent to all of > > that (else you would not have brought it up!), > > no you will naturally be dissatisfied with > > what is written there. > > > > Bill > > > > Ok, Bill, > > Indeed, I am dissatisfied. I will put it differently. > > Isn't the " hmm,hmm, heart " a very private affair ? A very delicate, > sensitive blossom ? Why to catapult it into the public ? > > Could it be that the " heart " in some way is part of your self- image, > Bill-the guy-with-heart ? " conscious virtue is vanity " . J.K. > > Can one teach or preach the " heart " ? Can one proselytize > the " heart " ? Can one distribute the " heart " or write a book about > it ? > > Werner > Do you see how full of conjectures, imaginings your questions are laced? Here is the " other " with the handle " Bill " that you have developed elaborate theories about. Is there something about the words: The Heart is the Thunder of Now The piercing Essence of Presence It cannot be touched, known, or seen yet there is nothing that is not Its knowing, touching, and seeing. that bother you? If they make no sense to you, then why not simply move on? But no, something seems *very wrong* to you, doesn't it? So you go into dectective mode, to " uncover " some not-so-straightness in the world. Well, you can do it without my help. Conjecture as you will. Because, I don't see your questions as honest questions Werner. You are not asking to discover something you don't know. They are rhetorical questions. It is you that is the dissembler, not me. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <pliantheart@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Heart is the Thunder of Now > > > > > The piercing Essence of Presence > > > > > It cannot be touched, known, or seen > > > > > yet there is nothing that is not Its > > > > > knowing, touching, and seeing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Naming that " hmm,hmm " as heart then what is the advantage > > compared > > > > with not naming it ? > > > > > > > > Is the " hmm,hmm " kinda flower which only can blossom when > planted > > > in > > > > the soil of naming ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > your questions arise from mind. > > > what is written there does not. > > > hence not a jive for you. > > > > > > to see what I mean, the issue of " advantage " > > > is a mind thing, an analysis thing. > > > > > > and your entire line of questioning hinges > > > on the notion of " advantage " . > > > > > > what is written above, however, side-steps > > > all of that, is indifferent to all of that. > > > > > > you, of course, are not indifferent to all of > > > that (else you would not have brought it up!), > > > no you will naturally be dissatisfied with > > > what is written there. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > Ok, Bill, > > > > Indeed, I am dissatisfied. I will put it differently. > > > > Isn't the " hmm,hmm, heart " a very private affair ? A very delicate, > > sensitive blossom ? Why to catapult it into the public ? > > > > Could it be that the " heart " in some way is part of your self- > image, > > Bill-the guy-with-heart ? " conscious virtue is vanity " . J.K. > > > > Can one teach or preach the " heart " ? Can one proselytize > > the " heart " ? Can one distribute the " heart " or write a book about > > it ? > > > > Werner > > > > Do you see how full of conjectures, imaginings your > questions are laced? Here is the " other " with the handle > " Bill " that you have developed elaborate theories about. > > Is there something about the words: > > The Heart is the Thunder of Now > The piercing Essence of Presence > It cannot be touched, known, or seen > yet there is nothing that is not Its > knowing, touching, and seeing. > > that bother you? > If they make no sense to you, then why not simply move on? > > But no, something seems *very wrong* to you, doesn't it? > > So you go into dectective mode, to " uncover " some > not-so-straightness in the world. > > Well, you can do it without my help. Conjecture as you will. > > Because, I don't see your questions as honest questions Werner. > You are not asking to discover something you don't know. They > are rhetorical questions. It is you that is the dissembler, > not me. > > Bill > Nice, Bill, that you associated the word honesty. That's it. I wondered if someone can be honest when speaking with such pathos about the heart. Is it dishonest when I am tickling you a bit to see your reaction and answers ? Or am I an detective when communing with you in a way you didn't ask for ? You catapulted the " heart " with such bombasticism into the public and because I am the public I came to ask what that noise is about. The Heart is the Thunder of Now - boom, boom. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 pliantheart <pliantheart Nisargadatta Thu, 8 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0000 Thunder of Now The Heart is the Thunder of Now The piercing Essence of Presence It cannot be touched, known, or seen yet there is nothing that is not Its knowing, touching, and seeing. L.E: If it cannot be known, why do you insist on talking about it? If it has no outside, then everything is included within. Why are you talking about something that cannot possibly be a problem of concern? If it can be sensed only in silence, why all the words. If it will reveal itself only to those it chooses, how does it help to advertise it to others who cannot know it? If it is a secret, why are you trying to tell everybody about it? Larry Epston Lll._,_.___ We Made Changes Your email is all new. Learn More Share Feedback Recent Activity 2New Members Visit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > > > > pliantheart <pliantheart > Nisargadatta > Thu, 8 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0000 > Thunder of Now > > > > The Heart is the Thunder of Now > The piercing Essence of Presence > It cannot be touched, known, or seen > yet there is nothing that is not Its > knowing, touching, and seeing. > > L.E: If it cannot be known, why do you insist on talking about it? > If it has no outside, then everything is included within. > Why are you talking about something that cannot possibly be a problem of concern? If it can be sensed only in silence, why all the words. > If it will reveal itself only to those it chooses, > how does it help to advertise it to others who cannot know it? > If it is a secret, why are you trying to tell everybody about it? > > Larry Epston > What you are doing is interrogating me Larry. As if to challenge my speaking as I do. You have no right to so interrogate me. You say what you want to say. I say what I want to say. This is an open board. I am not answerable to you regarding what I say or why. Bye Larry, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > pliantheart <pliantheart@> > > Nisargadatta > > Thu, 8 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0000 > > Thunder of Now > > > > > > > > The Heart is the Thunder of Now > > The piercing Essence of Presence > > It cannot be touched, known, or seen > > yet there is nothing that is not Its > > knowing, touching, and seeing. > > > > L.E: If it cannot be known, why do you insist on talking about it? > > If it has no outside, then everything is included within. > > Why are you talking about something that cannot possibly be a > problem of concern? If it can be sensed only in silence, why all the > words. > > If it will reveal itself only to those it chooses, > > how does it help to advertise it to others who cannot know it? > > If it is a secret, why are you trying to tell everybody about it? > > > > Larry Epston > > > > What you are doing is interrogating me Larry. > As if to challenge my speaking as I do. > You have no right to so interrogate me. > You say what you want to say. > I say what I want to say. > This is an open board. > I am not answerable to you regarding > what I say or why. > > Bye Larry, > Bill He says whatever he wants to say, and you can either listen to it, and learn about your blind spots, or stick to your defence. Till now you have mostly chosen to react defensively on this forum, when challenged. You could try a new approach. You have a lot to learn, Bill, but how can you learn if you stick so compulsively to your defence? Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pliantheart <pliantheart@> > > > Nisargadatta > > > Thu, 8 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0000 > > > Thunder of Now > > > > > > > > > > > > The Heart is the Thunder of Now > > > The piercing Essence of Presence > > > It cannot be touched, known, or seen > > > yet there is nothing that is not Its > > > knowing, touching, and seeing. > > > > > > L.E: If it cannot be known, why do you insist on talking about > it? > > > If it has no outside, then everything is included within. > > > Why are you talking about something that cannot possibly be a > > problem of concern? If it can be sensed only in silence, why all > the > > words. > > > If it will reveal itself only to those it chooses, > > > how does it help to advertise it to others who cannot know it? > > > If it is a secret, why are you trying to tell everybody about it? > > > > > > Larry Epston > > > > > > > What you are doing is interrogating me Larry. > > As if to challenge my speaking as I do. > > You have no right to so interrogate me. > > You say what you want to say. > > I say what I want to say. > > This is an open board. > > I am not answerable to you regarding > > what I say or why. > > > > Bye Larry, > > Bill > > > He says whatever he wants to say, and you can either listen to it, > and learn about your blind spots, or stick to your defence. > Till now you have mostly chosen to react defensively on this forum, > when challenged. You could try a new approach. You have a lot to > learn, Bill, but how can you learn if you stick so compulsively to > your defence? > > Len > There is no " Bill " separate from what he does. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pliantheart <pliantheart@> > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Thu, 8 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0000 > > > > Thunder of Now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Heart is the Thunder of Now > > > > The piercing Essence of Presence > > > > It cannot be touched, known, or seen > > > > yet there is nothing that is not Its > > > > knowing, touching, and seeing. > > > > > > > > L.E: If it cannot be known, why do you insist on talking about > > it? > > > > If it has no outside, then everything is included within. > > > > Why are you talking about something that cannot possibly be a > > > problem of concern? If it can be sensed only in silence, why all > > the > > > words. > > > > If it will reveal itself only to those it chooses, > > > > how does it help to advertise it to others who cannot know it? > > > > If it is a secret, why are you trying to tell everybody about it? > > > > > > > > Larry Epston > > > > > > > > > > What you are doing is interrogating me Larry. > > > As if to challenge my speaking as I do. > > > You have no right to so interrogate me. > > > You say what you want to say. > > > I say what I want to say. > > > This is an open board. > > > I am not answerable to you regarding > > > what I say or why. > > > > > > Bye Larry, > > > Bill > > > > > > He says whatever he wants to say, and you can either listen to it, > > and learn about your blind spots, or stick to your defence. > > Till now you have mostly chosen to react defensively on this forum, > > when challenged. You could try a new approach. You have a lot to > > learn, Bill, but how can you learn if you stick so compulsively to > > your defence? > > > > Len > > > > > There is no " Bill " separate from what he does. > > > toombaru > spiraling descending ascending once more around the same block which block? stumbling over, falling down, falling in and through, no closer than a moment before or a moment after yet the mirror shines a little more brightly as the image fades and dances in its own light. Ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <anabebe57 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <pliantheart@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pliantheart <pliantheart@> > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Thu, 8 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0000 > > > > > Thunder of Now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Heart is the Thunder of Now > > > > > The piercing Essence of Presence > > > > > It cannot be touched, known, or seen > > > > > yet there is nothing that is not Its > > > > > knowing, touching, and seeing. > > > > > > > > > > L.E: If it cannot be known, why do you insist on talking > about > > > it? > > > > > If it has no outside, then everything is included within. > > > > > Why are you talking about something that cannot possibly be a > > > > problem of concern? If it can be sensed only in silence, why > all > > > the > > > > words. > > > > > If it will reveal itself only to those it chooses, > > > > > how does it help to advertise it to others who cannot know > it? > > > > > If it is a secret, why are you trying to tell everybody > about it? > > > > > > > > > > Larry Epston > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you are doing is interrogating me Larry. > > > > As if to challenge my speaking as I do. > > > > You have no right to so interrogate me. > > > > You say what you want to say. > > > > I say what I want to say. > > > > This is an open board. > > > > I am not answerable to you regarding > > > > what I say or why. > > > > > > > > Bye Larry, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > He says whatever he wants to say, and you can either listen to > it, > > > and learn about your blind spots, or stick to your defence. > > > Till now you have mostly chosen to react defensively on this > forum, > > > when challenged. You could try a new approach. You have a lot to > > > learn, Bill, but how can you learn if you stick so compulsively > to > > > your defence? > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > There is no " Bill " separate from what he does. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > spiraling > descending > ascending > once more around the same block > which block? > stumbling > over, falling down, > falling in and through, > no closer than > a moment before or a moment after > yet the mirror > shines a little more brightly > as the image fades > and dances > in its own light. > > Ana > what a fitting closing statement for an incredible week... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pliantheart <pliantheart@> > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Thu, 8 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0000 > > > > Thunder of Now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Heart is the Thunder of Now > > > > The piercing Essence of Presence > > > > It cannot be touched, known, or seen > > > > yet there is nothing that is not Its > > > > knowing, touching, and seeing. > > > > > > > > L.E: If it cannot be known, why do you insist on talking about > > it? > > > > If it has no outside, then everything is included within. > > > > Why are you talking about something that cannot possibly be a > > > problem of concern? If it can be sensed only in silence, why all > > the > > > words. > > > > If it will reveal itself only to those it chooses, > > > > how does it help to advertise it to others who cannot know it? > > > > If it is a secret, why are you trying to tell everybody about it? > > > > > > > > Larry Epston > > > > > > > > > > What you are doing is interrogating me Larry. > > > As if to challenge my speaking as I do. > > > You have no right to so interrogate me. > > > You say what you want to say. > > > I say what I want to say. > > > This is an open board. > > > I am not answerable to you regarding > > > what I say or why. > > > > > > Bye Larry, > > > Bill > > > > > > He says whatever he wants to say, and you can either listen to it, > > and learn about your blind spots, or stick to your defence. > > Till now you have mostly chosen to react defensively on this forum, > > when challenged. You could try a new approach. You have a lot to > > learn, Bill, but how can you learn if you stick so compulsively to > > your defence? > > > > Len > > > > > There is no " Bill " separate from what he does. > > > toombaru Because I systematically ignore Len's messages I missed this, toombaru. How beautiful, how... right on Bro! And you know toombaru... I feel very humbled at this juncture... and appropriately so. some new light is shining where before there was such darkness. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pliantheart <pliantheart@> > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Thu, 8 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0000 > > > > > Thunder of Now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Heart is the Thunder of Now > > > > > The piercing Essence of Presence > > > > > It cannot be touched, known, or seen > > > > > yet there is nothing that is not Its > > > > > knowing, touching, and seeing. > > > > > > > > > > L.E: If it cannot be known, why do you insist on talking about > > > it? > > > > > If it has no outside, then everything is included within. > > > > > Why are you talking about something that cannot possibly be a > > > > problem of concern? If it can be sensed only in silence, why all > > > the > > > > words. > > > > > If it will reveal itself only to those it chooses, > > > > > how does it help to advertise it to others who cannot know it? > > > > > If it is a secret, why are you trying to tell everybody about it? > > > > > > > > > > Larry Epston > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you are doing is interrogating me Larry. > > > > As if to challenge my speaking as I do. > > > > You have no right to so interrogate me. > > > > You say what you want to say. > > > > I say what I want to say. > > > > This is an open board. > > > > I am not answerable to you regarding > > > > what I say or why. > > > > > > > > Bye Larry, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > He says whatever he wants to say, and you can either listen to it, > > > and learn about your blind spots, or stick to your defence. > > > Till now you have mostly chosen to react defensively on this forum, > > > when challenged. You could try a new approach. You have a lot to > > > learn, Bill, but how can you learn if you stick so compulsively to > > > your defence? > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > There is no " Bill " separate from what he does. > > > > > > toombaru > > > Because I systematically ignore Len's messages > I missed this, toombaru. > > How beautiful, how... > right on Bro! > > And you know toombaru... > I feel very humbled at this juncture... > > and appropriately so. > > some new light is shining where > before there was such darkness. > > > Bill Light on Light > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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