if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off from the tree

[Guest guest]

if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken identity...

meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its nature, and its

many activities...

so every step you take to make it right or better, when grounded in

the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your true real.

so...what to do, you ask ?

and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

(to all you taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you will...

but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

fuzzing-buisness...

 

if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off from the

tree...but maby there is still this holding-on-reflex...trying to

improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex doing

what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its grip

and fall off...

....iietsa

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote:

>

> if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken

identity...

> meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its nature, and

its

> many activities...

> so every step you take to make it right or better, when grounded in

> the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your true real.

> so...what to do, you ask ?

> and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> (to all you taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-

people)

> just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you will...

> but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> fuzzing-buisness...

 

it is not " me " being honest...

it is any " me " giving way to honesty...

 

honesty doesn't need any support, any " me " ,

any center...

 

honesty is completely open and free

 

and honesty, like breathing, can always

be *deepened*

 

 

 

> if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off from the

> tree...but maby there is still this holding-on-reflex...trying to

> improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex doing

> what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its grip

> and fall off...

> ...iietsa

>

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote:

> >

> > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken

> identity...

> > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its nature, and

> its

> > many activities...

> > so every step you take to make it right or better, when grounded

in

> > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your true

real.

> > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> > (to all you taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-

> people)

> > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you

will...

> > but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> > fuzzing-buisness...

>

> it is not " me " being honest...

> it is any " me " giving way to honesty...

>

> honesty doesn't need any support, any " me " ,

> any center...

>

> honesty is completely open and free

>

> and honesty, like breathing, can always

> be *deepened*

>

>

>

> > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off from

the

> > tree...but maby there is still this holding-on-reflex...trying

to

> > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex doing

> > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its

grip

> > and fall off...

> > ...iietsa

> >

>

 

 

I would say this much is true:

 

 

 

There is nothing else but the fruit,

 

a tree grows

the roots have taken hold

drink from the earth and the sun

grows tall in the sky,

 

tells its secrets--

how the darkness

meets the light in the simplicity of a leaf,

how the colour green is created,

 

and now the orange tree blossoms,

beauty is opening,

there's a scent of right and melodies waft in the flowering air

the shining stars in the night bring forth

the bud, soon the fruit of the tree's long labour,

soon to be picked and savoured,

as essenses drip through our fingers,

 

shall we return the peel to the good earth,

and feed the rich soil,

the empty sky,

 

the ancient tree?

 

 

Yours In Love,

Ana

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote:

>

> if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken identity...

> meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its nature, and its

> many activities...

> so every step you take to make it right or better, when grounded in

> the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your true real.

> so...what to do, you ask ?

> and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> (to all you taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you will...

> but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> fuzzing-buisness...

>

> if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off from the

> tree...but maby there is still this holding-on-reflex...trying to

> improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex doing

> what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its grip

> and fall off...

> ...iietsa

>

 

 

 

There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an attempt to

improve it.

 

Go back the way you came.

 

 

toombaru

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote:

> >

> > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken identity...

> > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its nature, and its

> > many activities...

> > so every step you take to make it right or better, when grounded in

> > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your true real.

> > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> > (to all you taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you will...

> > but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> > fuzzing-buisness...

> >

> > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off from the

> > tree...but maby there is still this holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex doing

> > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its grip

> > and fall off...

> > ...iietsa

> >

>

>

>

> There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an attempt to

> improve it.

>

> Go back the way you came.

>

>

> toombaru

>

 

there's an assumption of self/other. Drop them, period.

 

There's an assumption of back, way, came. Drop direction.

 

love

~*~

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote:

> > >

> > > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> > > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken

identity...

> > > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its nature, and

its

> > > many activities...

> > > so every step you take to make it right or better, when grounded in

> > > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your true real.

> > > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > > and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> > > (to all you

taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you will...

> > > but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> > > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> > > fuzzing-buisness...

> > >

> > > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off from the

> > > tree...but maby there is still this holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex doing

> > > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its grip

> > > and fall off...

> > > ...iietsa

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an attempt to

> > improve it.

> >

> > Go back the way you came.

> >

> >

> > toombaru

> >

>

> there's an assumption of self/other. Drop them, period.

>

> There's an assumption of back, way, came. Drop

direction.

>

> love

> ~*~

>

 

 

 

The assumed separate self cannot drop itself.

 

A deeper understranding is necessary.

 

 

toombaru

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> > > > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken

> identity...

> > > > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its nature, and

> its

> > > > many activities...

> > > > so every step you take to make it right or better, when

grounded in

> > > > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your true

real.

> > > > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > > > and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> > > > (to all you

> taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > > > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you will...

> > > > but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> > > > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> > > > fuzzing-buisness...

> > > >

> > > > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off

from the

> > > > tree...but maby there is still this holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > > > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex doing

> > > > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its

grip

> > > > and fall off...

> > > > ...iietsa

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an attempt to

> > > improve it.

> > >

> > > Go back the way you came.

> > >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> >

> > there's an assumption of self/other. Drop them, period.

> >

> > There's an assumption of back, way, came. Drop

> direction.

> >

> > love

> > ~*~

> >

>

>

>

> The assumed separate self cannot drop itself.

>

> A deeper understranding is necessary.

>

>

> toombaru

>

 

Drop self entirely

Drop deeper and understanding ( " understranding " !, very good!)

Drop necessary

Drop dropping

 

Drop who and what it is that is dropping

Drop the meaning of dropping

Drop the doing of dropping

Drop this as being done or not being done

Drop this as either a direction or an indirection

 

Drop language

Drop the absence of language

 

Drop me

 

Drop this thread

 

love

~*~

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> > > > > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken

> > identity...

> > > > > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its nature, and

> > its

> > > > > many activities...

> > > > > so every step you take to make it right or better, when

> grounded in

> > > > > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your true

> real.

> > > > > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > > > > and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> > > > > (to all you

> > taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > > > > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you

will...

> > > > > but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> > > > > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> > > > > fuzzing-buisness...

> > > > >

> > > > > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off

> from the

> > > > > tree...but maby there is still this

holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > > > > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex

doing

> > > > > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its

> grip

> > > > > and fall off...

> > > > > ...iietsa

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an

attempt to

> > > > improve it.

> > > >

> > > > Go back the way you came.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > toombaru

> > > >

> > >

> > > there's an assumption of self/other. Drop them, period.

> > >

> > > There's an assumption of back, way, came. Drop

> > direction.

> > >

> > > love

> > > ~*~

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > The assumed separate self cannot drop itself.

> >

> > A deeper understranding is necessary.

> >

> >

> > toombaru

> >

>

> Drop self entirely

> Drop deeper and understanding ( " understranding " !, very good!)

> Drop necessary

> Drop dropping

>

> Drop who and what it is that is dropping

> Drop the meaning of dropping

> Drop the doing of dropping

> Drop this as being done or not being done

> Drop this as either a direction or an indirection

>

> Drop language

> Drop the absence of language

>

> Drop me

>

> Drop this thread

>

> love

> ~*~

>

 

 

 

 

Dropping.......occurs......but not through the volition of the

meat-puppet.

 

 

toombnaru

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> > > > > > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken

> > > identity...

> > > > > > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its

nature, and

> > > its

> > > > > > many activities...

> > > > > > so every step you take to make it right or better, when

> > grounded in

> > > > > > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your true

> > real.

> > > > > > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > > > > > and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> > > > > > (to all you

> > > taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > > > > > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you

> will...

> > > > > > but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> > > > > > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> > > > > > fuzzing-buisness...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off

> > from the

> > > > > > tree...but maby there is still this

> holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > > > > > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex

> doing

> > > > > > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its

> > grip

> > > > > > and fall off...

> > > > > > ...iietsa

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an

> attempt to

> > > > > improve it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Go back the way you came.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > toombaru

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > there's an assumption of self/other. Drop them, period.

> > > >

> > > > There's an assumption of back, way, came. Drop

> > > direction.

> > > >

> > > > love

> > > > ~*~

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The assumed separate self cannot drop itself.

> > >

> > > A deeper understranding is necessary.

> > >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> >

> > Drop self entirely

> > Drop deeper and understanding ( " understranding " !, very good!)

> > Drop necessary

> > Drop dropping

> >

> > Drop who and what it is that is dropping

> > Drop the meaning of dropping

> > Drop the doing of dropping

> > Drop this as being done or not being done

> > Drop this as either a direction or an indirection

> >

> > Drop language

> > Drop the absence of language

> >

> > Drop me

> >

> > Drop this thread

> >

> > love

> > ~*~

> >

>

>

>

>

> Dropping.......occurs......but not through the volition of the

> meat-puppet.

>

>

> toombnaru

>

 

 

that's what I meant to imply. But also, at the same time, the

volition of the meat-puppet/puppeteer occurs, too. Love happens

irrespective, both with, without, in and out of tandem.

Conditionality and unconditionality occur. Occurring itself is an

assumption, a condition/uncondition.

 

I'd say, " but not Exclusively through the volition of the

meat-puppet/puppeteer. " The whole point, for here, is that Nothing is

exclusive. It's all inclusive. But then, that's all too obvious,

here, I hope.

 

love

occurrence

~*~

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote:

> >

> > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken identity...

> > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its nature, and its

> > many activities...

> > so every step you take to make it right or better, when grounded in

> > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your true real.

> > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> > (to all you taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you will...

> > but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> > fuzzing-buisness...

> >

> > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off from the

> > tree...but maby there is still this holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex doing

> > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its grip

> > and fall off...

> > ...iietsa

> >

>

>

>

> There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an attempt to

> improve it.

>

> Go back the way you came.

>

>

> toombaru

 

 

But there *is* separateness *within* wholeness,

toombaru.

 

To acknowledge that separateness from *within*

wholeness is to be in wholeness.

 

Something happens and I feel sorrow. There is

separateness in that sense of sorrow. But I

can experience that sorrow from withing

wholeness. In so experiencing that sorrow I

am not separate from life but am wonderously

connected with all that is... not just conceptually

connected, but gloriously, *viscerally* connected.

 

And any visceral experience is as from separateness,

but that quality of separateness can be experienced,

*realized* actually, as from wholeness.

 

 

Bill

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> > > > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken

> identity...

> > > > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its nature, and

> its

> > > > many activities...

> > > > so every step you take to make it right or better, when

grounded in

> > > > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your true

real.

> > > > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > > > and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> > > > (to all you

> taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > > > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you will...

> > > > but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> > > > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> > > > fuzzing-buisness...

> > > >

> > > > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off

from the

> > > > tree...but maby there is still this holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > > > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex doing

> > > > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its

grip

> > > > and fall off...

> > > > ...iietsa

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an attempt to

> > > improve it.

> > >

> > > Go back the way you came.

> > >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> >

> > there's an assumption of self/other. Drop them, period.

> >

> > There's an assumption of back, way, came. Drop

> direction.

> >

> > love

> > ~*~

> >

>

>

>

> The assumed separate self cannot drop itself.

>

> A deeper understranding is necessary.

>

>

> toombaru

 

 

any understanding isn't " It " either...

 

understanding, " dropping " ... are just

*symptoms*..., indicators...

 

and to try to trace a causal pathway

that leads to the " dropping " etc...

is futile.

 

it is because it is all in wholeness

from the beginning... and it never has

been *out of* wholeness. That is why nothing

can be " fixed " . It is because nothing was

ever broken.

 

Bill

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> > > > > > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken

> > > identity...

> > > > > > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its

nature, and

> > > its

> > > > > > many activities...

> > > > > > so every step you take to make it right or better, when

> > grounded in

> > > > > > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your true

> > real.

> > > > > > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > > > > > and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> > > > > > (to all you

> > > taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > > > > > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you

> will...

> > > > > > but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> > > > > > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> > > > > > fuzzing-buisness...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off

> > from the

> > > > > > tree...but maby there is still this

> holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > > > > > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex

> doing

> > > > > > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its

> > grip

> > > > > > and fall off...

> > > > > > ...iietsa

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an

> attempt to

> > > > > improve it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Go back the way you came.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > toombaru

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > there's an assumption of self/other. Drop them, period.

> > > >

> > > > There's an assumption of back, way, came. Drop

> > > direction.

> > > >

> > > > love

> > > > ~*~

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The assumed separate self cannot drop itself.

> > >

> > > A deeper understranding is necessary.

> > >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> >

> > Drop self entirely

> > Drop deeper and understanding ( " understranding " !, very good!)

> > Drop necessary

> > Drop dropping

> >

> > Drop who and what it is that is dropping

> > Drop the meaning of dropping

> > Drop the doing of dropping

> > Drop this as being done or not being done

> > Drop this as either a direction or an indirection

> >

> > Drop language

> > Drop the absence of language

> >

> > Drop me

> >

> > Drop this thread

> >

> > love

> > ~*~

> >

>

>

>

>

> Dropping.......occurs......but not through the volition of the

> meat-puppet.

>

>

> toombnaru

 

if there is a " dropping " then any further

analysis is irrelevant.

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote:

>

> if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken

identity...

> meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its nature, and

its

> many activities...

> so every step you take to make it right or better, when grounded

in

> the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your true

real.

> so...what to do, you ask ?

> and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> (to all you taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-

people)

> just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you will...

> but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> fuzzing-buisness...

>

> if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off from

the

> tree...but maby there is still this holding-on-reflex...trying to

> improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex doing

> what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its grip

> and fall off...

> ...iietsa

>

 

 

so much monkey-fuzzing going on here about those few words above...

it is absolutely in welcoming...and in noneresisting openness...

but all those words above was trying to say only one thing...

dont get involved in the monkey-buisness...

and stop creating more M-B...

and the M-B will be fading away of its own without anything being

done about it, til it is absolutely transparent

and when it is transparent (meaning you dont longer feed it at all)

then you are the taste of purity...just be...iietsa

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> > > > > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken

> > identity...

> > > > > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its nature, and

> > its

> > > > > many activities...

> > > > > so every step you take to make it right or better, when

> grounded in

> > > > > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your true

> real.

> > > > > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > > > > and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> > > > > (to all you

> > taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > > > > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you

will...

> > > > > but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> > > > > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> > > > > fuzzing-buisness...

> > > > >

> > > > > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off

> from the

> > > > > tree...but maby there is still this

holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > > > > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex

doing

> > > > > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its

> grip

> > > > > and fall off...

> > > > > ...iietsa

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an

attempt to

> > > > improve it.

> > > >

> > > > Go back the way you came.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > toombaru

> > > >

> > >

> > > there's an assumption of self/other. Drop them, period.

> > >

> > > There's an assumption of back, way, came. Drop

> > direction.

> > >

> > > love

> > > ~*~

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > The assumed separate self cannot drop itself.

> >

> > A deeper understranding is necessary.

> >

> >

> > toombaru

>

>

> any understanding isn't " It " either...

>

> understanding, " dropping " ... are just

> *symptoms*..., indicators...

>

> and to try to trace a causal pathway

> that leads to the " dropping " etc...

> is futile.

>

> it is because it is all in wholeness

> from the beginning... and it never has

> been *out of* wholeness. That is why nothing

> can be " fixed " . It is because nothing was

> ever broken.

>

> Bill

>

 

 

Yeeaaah.........kinda like that understanding.

 

 

:-)

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote:

> > >

> > > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> > > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken

identity...

> > > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its nature, and

its

> > > many activities...

> > > so every step you take to make it right or better, when grounded in

> > > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your true real.

> > > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > > and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> > > (to all you

taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you will...

> > > but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> > > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> > > fuzzing-buisness...

> > >

> > > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off from the

> > > tree...but maby there is still this holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex doing

> > > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its grip

> > > and fall off...

> > > ...iietsa

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an attempt to

> > improve it.

> >

> > Go back the way you came.

> >

> >

> > toombaru

>

>

> But there *is* separateness *within* wholeness,

> toombaru.

 

 

 

 

There is an appearance of separatness......just as waves or mountains

appear to be separate.

 

 

 

 

>

> To acknowledge that separateness from *within*

> wholeness is to be in wholeness.

 

 

 

 

 

The acknowledgement of separateness is the home of suffering.

 

 

 

>

> Something happens and I feel sorrow.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorrow is the sense of preceived loss....by an identified entiy that

is illusory.

 

 

 

 

There is

> separateness in that sense of sorrow. But I

> can experience that sorrow from withing

> wholeness.

 

 

Identification is sorrow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In so experiencing that sorrow I

> am not separate from life but am wonderously

> connected with all that is... not just conceptually

> connected, but gloriously, *viscerally* connected.

 

 

Nothing is connected in wholeness......Are waves connected?......Is

the wind connected?....Are mountains connected?

 

 

 

 

>

> And any visceral experience is as from separateness,

> but that quality of separateness can be experienced,

> *realized* actually, as from wholeness.

>

>

 

 

Separateness is conceptual.....It never existed.

 

toombaru

 

 

 

 

> Bill

>

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> > > > > > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken

> > > identity...

> > > > > > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its

nature, and

> > > its

> > > > > > many activities...

> > > > > > so every step you take to make it right or better, when

> > grounded in

> > > > > > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your true

> > real.

> > > > > > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > > > > > and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> > > > > > (to all you

> > > taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > > > > > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you

> will...

> > > > > > but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> > > > > > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> > > > > > fuzzing-buisness...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off

> > from the

> > > > > > tree...but maby there is still this

> holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > > > > > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex

> doing

> > > > > > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its

> > grip

> > > > > > and fall off...

> > > > > > ...iietsa

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an

> attempt to

> > > > > improve it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Go back the way you came.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > toombaru

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > there's an assumption of self/other. Drop them, period.

> > > >

> > > > There's an assumption of back, way, came. Drop

> > > direction.

> > > >

> > > > love

> > > > ~*~

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The assumed separate self cannot drop itself.

> > >

> > > A deeper understranding is necessary.

> > >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> >

> > Drop self entirely

> > Drop deeper and understanding ( " understranding " !, very good!)

> > Drop necessary

> > Drop dropping

> >

> > Drop who and what it is that is dropping

> > Drop the meaning of dropping

> > Drop the doing of dropping

> > Drop this as being done or not being done

> > Drop this as either a direction or an indirection

> >

> > Drop language

> > Drop the absence of language

> >

> > Drop me

> >

> > Drop this thread

> >

> > love

> > ~*~

> >

>

>

>

>

> Dropping.......occurs......but not through the volition of the

> meat-puppet.

>

>

> toombnaru

>

 

** wouldn't that be the assumed volition of the assumed

meat-puppet?

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@>

wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 "

<lastrain@>

> > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@>

wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are

not...

> > > > > > > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this

mistaken

> > > > identity...

> > > > > > > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its

> nature, and

> > > > its

> > > > > > > many activities...

> > > > > > > so every step you take to make it right or better, when

> > > grounded in

> > > > > > > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing

your true

> > > real.

> > > > > > > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > > > > > > and there you go again...still making steps out of the

(false)

> > > > > > > (to all you

> > > > taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > > > > > > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know

you

> > will...

> > > > > > > but it will never take you out of your own

(falsehood)...

> > > > > > > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why

all this

> > > > > > > fuzzing-buisness...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall

off

> > > from the

> > > > > > > tree...but maby there is still this

> > holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > > > > > > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-

reflex

> > doing

> > > > > > > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will

loose its

> > > grip

> > > > > > > and fall off...

> > > > > > > ...iietsa

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an

> > attempt to

> > > > > > improve it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Go back the way you came.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > toombaru

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > there's an assumption of self/other. Drop them,

period.

> > > > >

> > > > > There's an assumption of back, way, came. Drop

> > > > direction.

> > > > >

> > > > > love

> > > > > ~*~

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The assumed separate self cannot drop itself.

> > > >

> > > > A deeper understranding is necessary.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > toombaru

> > > >

> > >

> > > Drop self entirely

> > > Drop deeper and understanding ( " understranding " !, very good!)

> > > Drop necessary

> > > Drop dropping

> > >

> > > Drop who and what it is that is dropping

> > > Drop the meaning of dropping

> > > Drop the doing of dropping

> > > Drop this as being done or not being done

> > > Drop this as either a direction or an indirection

> > >

> > > Drop language

> > > Drop the absence of language

> > >

> > > Drop me

> > >

> > > Drop this thread

> > >

> > > love

> > > ~*~

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dropping.......occurs......but not through the volition of the

> > meat-puppet.

> >

> >

> > toombnaru

> >

>

> ** wouldn't that be the assumed volition of the assumed

> meat-puppet?

>

 

talking about these things in such an absolute sense

seems like a mind game...

 

when there is no context... how can these things

be meaningfully discussed?

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> > > > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken

> identity...

> > > > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its nature,

and

> its

> > > > many activities...

> > > > so every step you take to make it right or better, when

grounded in

> > > > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your

true real.

> > > > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > > > and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> > > > (to all you

> taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > > > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you

will...

> > > > but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> > > > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> > > > fuzzing-buisness...

> > > >

> > > > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off

from the

> > > > tree...but maby there is still this holding-on-

reflex...trying to

> > > > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex

doing

> > > > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its

grip

> > > > and fall off...

> > > > ...iietsa

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an

attempt to

> > > improve it.

> > >

> > > Go back the way you came.

> > >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> >

> >

> > But there *is* separateness *within* wholeness,

> > toombaru.

>

>

>

>

> There is an appearance of separatness......just as waves or

mountains

> appear to be separate.

>

>

>

>

> >

> > To acknowledge that separateness from *within*

> > wholeness is to be in wholeness.

>

>

>

>

>

> The acknowledgement of separateness is the home of suffering.

>

>

>

> >

> > Something happens and I feel sorrow.

>

>

>

>

>

> Sorrow is the sense of preceived loss....by an identified entiy that

> is illusory.

>

>

>

>

> There is

> > separateness in that sense of sorrow. But I

> > can experience that sorrow from withing

> > wholeness.

>

>

> Identification is sorrow.

In so experiencing that sorrow I

> > am not separate from life but am wonderously

> > connected with all that is... not just conceptually

> > connected, but gloriously, *viscerally* connected.

>

>

> Nothing is connected in wholeness......Are waves connected?......Is

> the wind connected?....Are mountains connected?

>

>

>

>

> >

> > And any visceral experience is as from separateness,

> > but that quality of separateness can be experienced,

> > *realized* actually, as from wholeness.

> >

> >

>

>

> Separateness is conceptual.....It never existed.

>

> toombaru

 

you are denying the *taste* of experience.

you are effectively saying that if there is

any taste, then that is illusion, and it is

false.

 

I don't see it that way at all.

To me the beauty of the nondual is the

incredible dimension it gives to the dual.

 

Dual is just appearance... and on that we

seem to agree.

 

But from the way you talk it would seem that

for you to live is to be numb of any sensation.

When you walk on the beach, do you feel anything?

Is there joy at the beauty? Are there moments

of upliftment? And if so are those " sensations "

really sorrow to you?

 

One of the beauties of the nondual to me is the

incredible Vastness. That in this simple moment,

poised in the midst of this sentence as it were,

that everything from the most minute to the

utterly boundless is comprised, so astonishing.

And at the same time so utterly simple and natural.

 

And what of beauty? Would you say there is

separateness in the sense of beauty?

 

Either you totally don't understand me or I totally

don't understand you or both or....

 

Bill

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote:

> >

> > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken

> identity...

> > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its nature, and

> its

> > many activities...

> > so every step you take to make it right or better, when grounded

> in

> > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your true

> real.

> > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> > (to all you taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-

> people)

> > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you will...

> > but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> > fuzzing-buisness...

> >

> > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off from

> the

> > tree...but maby there is still this holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex doing

> > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its

grip

> > and fall off...

> > ...iietsa

> >

>

>

> so much monkey-fuzzing going on here about those few words above...

> it is absolutely in welcoming...and in noneresisting openness...

> but all those words above was trying to say only one thing...

> dont get involved in the monkey-buisness...

> and stop creating more M-B...

> and the M-B will be fading away of its own without anything being

> done about it, til it is absolutely transparent

> and when it is transparent (meaning you dont longer feed it at all)

> then you are the taste of purity...just be...iietsa

>

 

the taste of purity!

Ahhh! How sweet it is!

 

I just wrote (in another message):

That in this simple moment,

poised in the midst of this sentence as it were,

that everything from the most minute to the

utterly boundless is comprised, so astonishing.

And at the same time so utterly simple and natural.

 

the taste of purity...

 

when the content is no longer distracting,

when the content just moves through...

some kind of expansion

a seeing of a fluid, liquid, transparent wholeness...

it is alive and moving... ever in transformation...

and yet always so simple, pure, clear...

 

nothing to wonder about...

as if what is and the knowing of what is

are the same... that knowing is not something

apart from... an *experience of*...

that Whis Is *is* the very knowing of it.

 

Bill

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@>

wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> > > > > > > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken

> > > > identity...

> > > > > > > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its

> nature, and

> > > > its

> > > > > > > many activities...

> > > > > > > so every step you take to make it right or better, when

> > > grounded in

> > > > > > > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing

your true

> > > real.

> > > > > > > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > > > > > > and there you go again...still making steps out of the

(false)

> > > > > > > (to all you

> > > > taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > > > > > > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you

> > will...

> > > > > > > but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> > > > > > > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all

this

> > > > > > > fuzzing-buisness...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off

> > > from the

> > > > > > > tree...but maby there is still this

> > holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > > > > > > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex

> > doing

> > > > > > > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will

loose its

> > > grip

> > > > > > > and fall off...

> > > > > > > ...iietsa

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an

> > attempt to

> > > > > > improve it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Go back the way you came.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > toombaru

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > there's an assumption of self/other. Drop them, period.

> > > > >

> > > > > There's an assumption of back, way, came. Drop

> > > > direction.

> > > > >

> > > > > love

> > > > > ~*~

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The assumed separate self cannot drop itself.

> > > >

> > > > A deeper understranding is necessary.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > toombaru

> > > >

> > >

> > > Drop self entirely

> > > Drop deeper and understanding ( " understranding " !, very good!)

> > > Drop necessary

> > > Drop dropping

> > >

> > > Drop who and what it is that is dropping

> > > Drop the meaning of dropping

> > > Drop the doing of dropping

> > > Drop this as being done or not being done

> > > Drop this as either a direction or an indirection

> > >

> > > Drop language

> > > Drop the absence of language

> > >

> > > Drop me

> > >

> > > Drop this thread

> > >

> > > love

> > > ~*~

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dropping.......occurs......but not through the volition of the

> > meat-puppet.

> >

> >

> > toombnaru

> >

>

> ** wouldn't that be the assumed volition of the assumed

> meat-puppet?

>

 

mais oui

 

~*~

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are not...

> > > > > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this mistaken

> > identity...

> > > > > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its nature,

> and

> > its

> > > > > many activities...

> > > > > so every step you take to make it right or better, when

> grounded in

> > > > > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing your

> true real.

> > > > > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > > > > and there you go again...still making steps out of the (false)

> > > > > (to all you

> > taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > > > > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know you

> will...

> > > > > but it will never take you out of your own (falsehood)...

> > > > > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why all this

> > > > > fuzzing-buisness...

> > > > >

> > > > > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall off

> from the

> > > > > tree...but maby there is still this holding-on-

> reflex...trying to

> > > > > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-reflex

> doing

> > > > > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will loose its

> grip

> > > > > and fall off...

> > > > > ...iietsa

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an

> attempt to

> > > > improve it.

> > > >

> > > > Go back the way you came.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > toombaru

> > >

> > >

> > > But there *is* separateness *within* wholeness,

> > > toombaru.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > There is an appearance of separatness......just as waves or

> mountains

> > appear to be separate.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > To acknowledge that separateness from *within*

> > > wholeness is to be in wholeness.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > The acknowledgement of separateness is the home of suffering.

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Something happens and I feel sorrow.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Sorrow is the sense of preceived loss....by an identified entiy that

> > is illusory.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > There is

> > > separateness in that sense of sorrow. But I

> > > can experience that sorrow from withing

> > > wholeness.

> >

> >

> > Identification is sorrow.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > In so experiencing that sorrow I

> > > am not separate from life but am wonderously

> > > connected with all that is... not just conceptually

> > > connected, but gloriously, *viscerally* connected.

> >

> >

> > Nothing is connected in wholeness......Are waves connected?......Is

> > the wind connected?....Are mountains connected?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > And any visceral experience is as from separateness,

> > > but that quality of separateness can be experienced,

> > > *realized* actually, as from wholeness.

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > Separateness is conceptual.....It never existed.

> >

> > toombaru

>

> you are denying the *taste* of experience.

> you are effectively saying that if there is

> any taste, then that is illusion, and it is

> false.

>

> I don't see it that way at all.

> To me the beauty of the nondual is the

> incredible dimension it gives to the dual.

>

> Dual is just appearance... and on that we

> seem to agree.

>

> But from the way you talk it would seem that

> for you to live is to be numb of any sensation.

> When you walk on the beach, do you feel anything?

> Is there joy at the beauty? Are there moments

> of upliftment? And if so are those " sensations "

> really sorrow to you?

>

> One of the beauties of the nondual to me is the

> incredible Vastness. That in this simple moment,

> poised in the midst of this sentence as it were,

> that everything from the most minute to the

> utterly boundless is comprised, so astonishing.

> And at the same time so utterly simple and natural.

>

> And what of beauty? Would you say there is

> separateness in the sense of beauty?

>

> Either you totally don't understand me or I totally

> don't understand you or both or....

>

> Bill

>

 

 

For me, both are merely emphasizing different aspects.

 

Toombaru is emphasizing the instantaneous aspect of transformation.

(T might even say that there is no transformation, and I would not

dispute this.) Bill is emphasizing the gradual aspect of

transformation (B might even say that gradual is all there is, and I

wouldn't dispute this, either). Both are relevant to me.

 

~*~

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@>

> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@>

> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 "

> <lastrain@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@>

> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are

> not...

> > > > > > > > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this

> mistaken

> > > > > identity...

> > > > > > > > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its

> > nature, and

> > > > > its

> > > > > > > > many activities...

> > > > > > > > so every step you take to make it right or better, when

> > > > grounded in

> > > > > > > > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing

> your true

> > > > real.

> > > > > > > > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > > > > > > > and there you go again...still making steps out of the

> (false)

> > > > > > > > (to all you

> > > > > taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > > > > > > > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know

> you

> > > will...

> > > > > > > > but it will never take you out of your own

> (falsehood)...

> > > > > > > > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why

> all this

> > > > > > > > fuzzing-buisness...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall

> off

> > > > from the

> > > > > > > > tree...but maby there is still this

> > > holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > > > > > > > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-

> reflex

> > > doing

> > > > > > > > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will

> loose its

> > > > grip

> > > > > > > > and fall off...

> > > > > > > > ...iietsa

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an

> > > attempt to

> > > > > > > improve it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Go back the way you came.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > toombaru

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > there's an assumption of self/other. Drop them,

> period.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There's an assumption of back, way, came. Drop

> > > > > direction.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > love

> > > > > > ~*~

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The assumed separate self cannot drop itself.

> > > > >

> > > > > A deeper understranding is necessary.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > toombaru

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Drop self entirely

> > > > Drop deeper and understanding ( " understranding " !, very good!)

> > > > Drop necessary

> > > > Drop dropping

> > > >

> > > > Drop who and what it is that is dropping

> > > > Drop the meaning of dropping

> > > > Drop the doing of dropping

> > > > Drop this as being done or not being done

> > > > Drop this as either a direction or an indirection

> > > >

> > > > Drop language

> > > > Drop the absence of language

> > > >

> > > > Drop me

> > > >

> > > > Drop this thread

> > > >

> > > > love

> > > > ~*~

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dropping.......occurs......but not through the volition of the

> > > meat-puppet.

> > >

> > >

> > > toombnaru

> > >

> >

> > ** wouldn't that be the assumed volition of the assumed

> > meat-puppet?

> >

>

> talking about these things in such an absolute sense

> seems like a mind game...

>

> when there is no context... how can these things

> be meaningfully discussed?

>

 

 

 

They can't.

 

" These things " are merely more concepts.

 

That is the understanding that brings the walls down.

 

 

toombaru

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@>

> > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@>

> > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 "

> > <lastrain@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@>

> > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are

> > not...

> > > > > > > > > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this

> > mistaken

> > > > > > identity...

> > > > > > > > > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its

> > > nature, and

> > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > many activities...

> > > > > > > > > so every step you take to make it right or better, when

> > > > > grounded in

> > > > > > > > > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing

> > your true

> > > > > real.

> > > > > > > > > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > > > > > > > > and there you go again...still making steps out of the

> > (false)

> > > > > > > > > (to all you

> > > > > > taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > > > > > > > > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know

> > you

> > > > will...

> > > > > > > > > but it will never take you out of your own

> > (falsehood)...

> > > > > > > > > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why

> > all this

> > > > > > > > > fuzzing-buisness...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall

> > off

> > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > > tree...but maby there is still this

> > > > holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > > > > > > > > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-

> > reflex

> > > > doing

> > > > > > > > > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will

> > loose its

> > > > > grip

> > > > > > > > > and fall off...

> > > > > > > > > ...iietsa

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an

> > > > attempt to

> > > > > > > > improve it.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Go back the way you came.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > toombaru

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > there's an assumption of self/other. Drop them,

> > period.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There's an assumption of back, way, came. Drop

> > > > > > direction.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > love

> > > > > > > ~*~

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The assumed separate self cannot drop itself.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A deeper understranding is necessary.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > toombaru

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Drop self entirely

> > > > > Drop deeper and understanding ( " understranding " !, very good!)

> > > > > Drop necessary

> > > > > Drop dropping

> > > > >

> > > > > Drop who and what it is that is dropping

> > > > > Drop the meaning of dropping

> > > > > Drop the doing of dropping

> > > > > Drop this as being done or not being done

> > > > > Drop this as either a direction or an indirection

> > > > >

> > > > > Drop language

> > > > > Drop the absence of language

> > > > >

> > > > > Drop me

> > > > >

> > > > > Drop this thread

> > > > >

> > > > > love

> > > > > ~*~

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dropping.......occurs......but not through the volition of the

> > > > meat-puppet.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > toombnaru

> > > >

> > >

> > > ** wouldn't that be the assumed volition of the assumed

> > > meat-puppet?

> > >

> >

> > talking about these things in such an absolute sense

> > seems like a mind game...

> >

> > when there is no context... how can these things

> > be meaningfully discussed?

> >

>

>

>

> They can't.

>

> " These things " are merely more concepts.

>

> That is the understanding that brings the walls down.

>

>

> toombaru

 

 

the most profound transformations

are not " understandings " ...

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 "

<lastrain@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds "

<skywords@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 "

> > > <lastrain@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are

> > > not...

> > > > > > > > > > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this

> > > mistaken

> > > > > > > identity...

> > > > > > > > > > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its

> > > > nature, and

> > > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > many activities...

> > > > > > > > > > so every step you take to make it right or better,

when

> > > > > > grounded in

> > > > > > > > > > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing

> > > your true

> > > > > > real.

> > > > > > > > > > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > > > > > > > > > and there you go again...still making steps out of

the

> > > (false)

> > > > > > > > > > (to all you

> > > > > > > taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > > > > > > > > > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I

know

> > > you

> > > > > will...

> > > > > > > > > > but it will never take you out of your own

> > > (falsehood)...

> > > > > > > > > > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why

> > > all this

> > > > > > > > > > fuzzing-buisness...

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will

fall

> > > off

> > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > > > tree...but maby there is still this

> > > > > holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > > > > > > > > > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-

> > > reflex

> > > > > doing

> > > > > > > > > > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will

> > > loose its

> > > > > > grip

> > > > > > > > > > and fall off...

> > > > > > > > > > ...iietsa

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an

> > > > > attempt to

> > > > > > > > > improve it.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Go back the way you came.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > toombaru

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > there's an assumption of self/other. Drop them,

> > > period.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > There's an assumption of back, way, came.

Drop

> > > > > > > direction.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > love

> > > > > > > > ~*~

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The assumed separate self cannot drop itself.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A deeper understranding is necessary.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > toombaru

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Drop self entirely

> > > > > > Drop deeper and understanding ( " understranding " !, very good!)

> > > > > > Drop necessary

> > > > > > Drop dropping

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Drop who and what it is that is dropping

> > > > > > Drop the meaning of dropping

> > > > > > Drop the doing of dropping

> > > > > > Drop this as being done or not being done

> > > > > > Drop this as either a direction or an indirection

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Drop language

> > > > > > Drop the absence of language

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Drop me

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Drop this thread

> > > > > >

> > > > > > love

> > > > > > ~*~

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dropping.......occurs......but not through the volition of the

> > > > > meat-puppet.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > toombnaru

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ** wouldn't that be the assumed volition of the assumed

> > > > meat-puppet?

> > > >

> > >

> > > talking about these things in such an absolute sense

> > > seems like a mind game...

> > >

> > > when there is no context... how can these things

> > > be meaningfully discussed?

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > They can't.

> >

> > " These things " are merely more concepts.

> >

> > That is the understanding that brings the walls down.

> >

> >

> > toombaru

>

>

> the most profound transformations

> are not " understandings " ...

>

 

 

" Profound " usually means " deep, " which is generally an " under " type

" standing. " Do you mean " over sight " ? " In sight " ? What's your

preferred pre position? Or is it a " sub merging " ? Just " merging " ?

 

Just kidding, really.

 

:-))

 

~*~

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@>

> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@>

> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@>

> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 "

> <lastrain@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@>

> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > if you (by mistake) take yourself to be what you are

> not...

> > > > > > > > then all you do or dont do is steeming from this

> mistaken

> > > > > identity...

> > > > > > > > meaning...you are in the darkness, holding on to its

> > nature, and

> > > > > its

> > > > > > > > many activities...

> > > > > > > > so every step you take to make it right or better, when

> > > > grounded in

> > > > > > > > the (wrong)...only keeps you there...only preventing

> your true

> > > > real.

> > > > > > > > so...what to do, you ask ?

> > > > > > > > and there you go again...still making steps out of the

> (false)

> > > > > > > > (to all you

> > > > > taking-yourself-as-the-false-thinking-youre-true-people)

> > > > > > > > just keep on fuzzing...go on...I know you can...I know

> you

> > > will...

> > > > > > > > but it will never take you out of your own

> (falsehood)...

> > > > > > > > inside this falsehood you see separation...thats why

> all this

> > > > > > > > fuzzing-buisness...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > if youre honnest then the false rutten fruit will fall

> off

> > > > from the

> > > > > > > > tree...but maby there is still this

> > > holding-on-reflex...trying to

> > > > > > > > improve the fruit...then just watch this holding-on-

> reflex

> > > doing

> > > > > > > > what it is doing...leave it all alone...and it will

> loose its

> > > > grip

> > > > > > > > and fall off...

> > > > > > > > ...iietsa

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There is an assumption of a separate self....and then an

> > > attempt to

> > > > > > > improve it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Go back the way you came.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > toombaru

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > there's an assumption of self/other. Drop them,

> period.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There's an assumption of back, way, came. Drop

> > > > > direction.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > love

> > > > > > ~*~

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The assumed separate self cannot drop itself.

> > > > >

> > > > > A deeper understranding is necessary.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > toombaru

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Drop self entirely

> > > > Drop deeper and understanding ( " understranding " !, very good!)

> > > > Drop necessary

> > > > Drop dropping

> > > >

> > > > Drop who and what it is that is dropping

> > > > Drop the meaning of dropping

> > > > Drop the doing of dropping

> > > > Drop this as being done or not being done

> > > > Drop this as either a direction or an indirection

> > > >

> > > > Drop language

> > > > Drop the absence of language

> > > >

> > > > Drop me

> > > >

> > > > Drop this thread

> > > >

> > > > love

> > > > ~*~

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dropping.......occurs......but not through the volition of the

> > > meat-puppet.

> > >

> > >

> > > toombnaru

> > >

> >

> > ** wouldn't that be the assumed volition of the assumed

> > meat-puppet?

> >

>

> talking about these things in such an absolute sense

> seems like a mind game...

>

> when there is no context... how can these things

> be meaningfully discussed?

>

 

** it's p-l-a-y, Bill. ;-)