Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow brings suffering to our door. " nisargadatta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " <dannyc_1eyeluv wrote: > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow brings > suffering to our door. " > > nisargadatta > Love that can be withheld........is not love. There is no love in duality. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow brings > > suffering to our door. " > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > There is no love in duality. > > > toombaru > openness and vulnerability not ventured up is love withheld. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow brings > > suffering to our door. " > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > There is no love in duality. > > > toombaru > so you quote Nisargadatta just when it suits you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow brings > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > openness and vulnerability not ventured up > is love withheld. > > Bill > Whenever there are two or more.........love is impossible. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow brings > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > so you quote Nisargadatta just when it suits you? > That's what everybody does. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow brings > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > openness and vulnerability not ventured up > is love withheld. > > Bill > this " opnness and vulnerability " is it focusing on the object... or is it not focusing at all on anything ? ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war > > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow brings > > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > so you quote Nisargadatta just when it suits you? > > > > > That's what everybody does. > > > toombaru > LOL... and I am guilty myself! just like the Bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war > > > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow > brings > > > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > so you quote Nisargadatta just when it suits you? > > > > > > > > > That's what everybody does. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > LOL... > and I am guilty myself! > > just like the Bible. > The self can only draw from its own bucket. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war > > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow > brings > > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > openness and vulnerability not ventured up > > is love withheld. > > > > Bill > > > > this " opnness and vulnerability " is it focusing on the object... > or is it not focusing at all on anything ? > ...iietsa > Focusing on nothing is still focusing. Discover the nature of the lense. (n : a transparent optical device used to converge or diverge transmitted light and to form images) and all questions evaporate. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war > > > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow > > brings > > > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > openness and vulnerability not ventured up > > > is love withheld. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > this " opnness and vulnerability " is it focusing on the object... > > or is it not focusing at all on anything ? > > ...iietsa > > > > > > Focusing on nothing is still focusing. > > Discover the nature of the lense. > > (n : a transparent optical device used to converge or diverge > transmitted light and to form images) > > and all questions evaporate. > toombaru > I am not saying " focusing on nothing " .... ..... no focus at all...no focusing...nothing... ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war > > > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow > > brings > > > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > openness and vulnerability not ventured up > > > is love withheld. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > this " opnness and vulnerability " is it focusing on the object... > > or is it not focusing at all on anything ? > > ...iietsa > > > > > > Focusing on nothing is still focusing. > > Discover the nature of the lense. > > (n : a transparent optical device used to converge or diverge > transmitted light and to form images) > > and all questions evaporate. > > > > > toombaru > whenever there is focusing ... there is focusing on something... if there is no focusing...then what...or is this just a stupid question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war > > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow > brings > > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > openness and vulnerability not ventured up > > is love withheld. > > > > Bill > > > > this " opnness and vulnerability " is it focusing on the object... > or is it not focusing at all on anything ? > ...iietsa > not focusing at all focusing is effort and, in my view, the root of the illusory sense of self. vulnerability is relinquishing of control, and the control relinquished is precisely the movement of focused attention. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <pliantheart@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to > spread, war > > > > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's > sorrow > > > brings > > > > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > openness and vulnerability not ventured up > > > > is love withheld. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > this " opnness and vulnerability " is it focusing on the object... > > > or is it not focusing at all on anything ? > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > Focusing on nothing is still focusing. > > > > Discover the nature of the lense. > > > > (n : a transparent optical device used to converge or diverge > > transmitted light and to form images) > > > > and all questions evaporate. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > whenever there is focusing ... there is focusing on something... > if there is no focusing...then what...or is this just a stupid > question? > not a stupid question, but a rhetorical one as you obviously already know the answer. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow brings > > suffering to our door. " > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > There is no love in duality. > > > toombaru > " Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > There is no love in duality. " -If you can attain awareness of formlessness and form and love that can be withheld, simultaneously experiencing both the absolute unity of all things. ...than there must be love in duality. " -Everything touches an open heart, remember? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow > brings > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > toombaru > > > " Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > There is no love in duality. " > > > -If you can attain awareness of formlessness and form and love that > can be withheld, simultaneously experiencing both the absolute unity > of all things. > > ...than there must be love in duality. " > > -Everything touches an open heart, remember? > > > to love is to *be* love... and to be love is unity... what experiences itself as dual (delusionally) can be touched by such love. but love itself does not know boundaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war > > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow > > brings > > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > " Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > There is no love in duality. " > > > > > > -If you can attain awareness of formlessness and form and love that > > can be withheld, simultaneously experiencing both the absolute unity > > of all things. > > > > ...than there must be love in duality. " > > > > -Everything touches an open heart, remember? > > > > > > > to love is to *be* love... > > and to be love is unity... > > what experiences itself as dual (delusionally) > can be touched by such love. > > but love itself does not know boundaries. > Love is completeness exactly as is. One Love. Yet love loves enough to become anything that already is, for the heart of " you " , Love splits from One to Half of One, never Two. Love to all my other Halves ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, > war > > > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's > sorrow > > > brings > > > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > " Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > > > There is no love in duality. " > > > > > > > > > -If you can attain awareness of formlessness and form and love > that > > > can be withheld, simultaneously experiencing both the absolute > unity > > > of all things. > > > > > > ...than there must be love in duality. " > > > > > > -Everything touches an open heart, remember? > > > > > > > > > > > to love is to *be* love... > > > > and to be love is unity... > > > > what experiences itself as dual (delusionally) > > can be touched by such love. > > > > but love itself does not know boundaries. > > > > > Love is completeness > exactly as is. > > One Love. > > Yet love loves enough > to become anything > that already is, for the > heart of " you " , > > Love splits from One > to Half of One, > never Two. > > > > Love to all my other Halves ;-) > " To Halve and Halve Not, " Earnest Stemmingway ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <pliantheart@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to > spread, war > > > > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's > sorrow > > > brings > > > > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > openness and vulnerability not ventured up > > > > is love withheld. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > this " opnness and vulnerability " is it focusing on the object... > > > or is it not focusing at all on anything ? > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > Focusing on nothing is still focusing. > > > > Discover the nature of the lense. > > > > (n : a transparent optical device used to converge or diverge > > transmitted light and to form images) > > > > and all questions evaporate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > I am not saying " focusing on nothing " .... > .... no focus at all...no focusing...nothing... > ...iietsa > Still mind is like still wind.....neither exist. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war > > > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow > > brings > > > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > openness and vulnerability not ventured up > > > is love withheld. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > this " opnness and vulnerability " is it focusing on the object... > > or is it not focusing at all on anything ? > > ...iietsa > > > > not focusing at all > > focusing is effort and, in my view, the > root of the illusory sense of self. > > vulnerability is relinquishing of control, > and the control relinquished is precisely > the movement of focused attention. > > Bill > The attempt to relinquish control is another form of control. Relinquishing happens downstream from understanding. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to spread, war > > > > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's sorrow > > > brings > > > > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > openness and vulnerability not ventured up > > > > is love withheld. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > this " opnness and vulnerability " is it focusing on the object... > > > or is it not focusing at all on anything ? > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > not focusing at all > > > > focusing is effort and, in my view, the > > root of the illusory sense of self. > > > > vulnerability is relinquishing of control, > > and the control relinquished is precisely > > the movement of focused attention. > > > > Bill > > > > > > The attempt to relinquish control is another form of control. > > Relinquishing happens downstream from understanding. > > > > toombaru > You are reading *effort* into the relinguishing. That is because you are seeing " control relinquished " as prescriptive. But if you read it as simply descriptive and not prescriptive, that what you say does not apply. Any " relinquishing " has to be a happy accident or by Grace or... because your basic point is correct, in my view: an *attempt* to relinquish control is still an attempt to control. The very notion of " being vulnerable " seems to have a paradox built into it. But that, in my view, is only if one thinks about it. We catch ourselves being too serious, or too _____, and then just relax, ease up all the time. It is really no big deal. But relinquishing thinking about it all... that maybe *is* a big deal and a real double-bind... don't know. Not something I really care to think about Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > <pliantheart@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to > > spread, war > > > > > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's > > sorrow > > > > brings > > > > > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > openness and vulnerability not ventured up > > > > > is love withheld. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > this " opnness and vulnerability " is it focusing on the object... > > > > or is it not focusing at all on anything ? > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Focusing on nothing is still focusing. > > > > > > Discover the nature of the lense. > > > > > > (n : a transparent optical device used to converge or diverge > > > transmitted light and to form images) > > > > > > and all questions evaporate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > I am not saying " focusing on nothing " .... > > .... no focus at all...no focusing...nothing... > > ...iietsa > > > > > > Still mind is like still wind.....neither exist. > > > toombaru > a tautology really, as " exists " is a term that applies to objects/things... which " still mind " is not. but iietsa didn't say anything about " still mind " anyway. Bill Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <pliantheart@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to > spread, war > > > > > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's > sorrow > > > > brings > > > > > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > openness and vulnerability not ventured up > > > > > is love withheld. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > this " opnness and vulnerability " is it focusing on the object... > > > > or is it not focusing at all on anything ? > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > not focusing at all > > > > > > focusing is effort and, in my view, the > > > root of the illusory sense of self. > > > > > > vulnerability is relinquishing of control, > > > and the control relinquished is precisely > > > the movement of focused attention. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to relinquish control is another form of control. > > > > Relinquishing happens downstream from understanding. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > You are reading *effort* into the relinguishing. > That is because you are seeing " control relinquished " > as prescriptive. But if you read it as simply descriptive > and not prescriptive, that what you say does not apply. > > Any " relinquishing " has to be a happy accident or > by Grace or... because your basic point is correct, > in my view: an *attempt* to relinquish control is > still an attempt to control. > > The very notion of " being vulnerable " seems to have > a paradox built into it. But that, in my view, is only > if one thinks about it. We catch ourselves being too > serious, or too _____, and then just relax, ease up > all the time. It is really no big deal. > > But relinquishing thinking about it all... that maybe > *is* a big deal and a real double-bind... don't know. > Not something I really care to think about > > Bill > Perhaps..........It cannot be thought about. LOL My son.....my friend Sundog.....and I are off the see Adya. Driving up the coast this morning. Heart full toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to > > > spread, war > > > > > > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's > > > sorrow > > > > > brings > > > > > > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > openness and vulnerability not ventured up > > > > > > is love withheld. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this " opnness and vulnerability " is it focusing on the > object... > > > > > or is it not focusing at all on anything ? > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Focusing on nothing is still focusing. > > > > > > > > Discover the nature of the lense. > > > > > > > > (n : a transparent optical device used to converge or diverge > > > > transmitted light and to form images) > > > > > > > > and all questions evaporate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > I am not saying " focusing on nothing " .... > > > .... no focus at all...no focusing...nothing... > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > Still mind is like still wind.....neither exist. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > a tautology really, as " exists " is a term that > applies to objects/things... which " still mind " > is not. > > but iietsa didn't say anything about " still mind " > anyway. > > Bill > > Mind is nothing other then focus. An unfocused mind is a still mind. A still mind is no mind. (These are ideas for discussion...not statements of fact..:-) toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dannyc_1eyeluv " > > > > > > > <dannyc_1eyeluv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Whenever love is withheld and suffering allowed to > > spread, war > > > > > > > > becomes inevitable. Our indifference to our neighbor's > > sorrow > > > > > brings > > > > > > > > suffering to our door. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love that can be withheld........is not love. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no love in duality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > openness and vulnerability not ventured up > > > > > > is love withheld. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this " opnness and vulnerability " is it focusing on the object... > > > > > or is it not focusing at all on anything ? > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > not focusing at all > > > > > > > > focusing is effort and, in my view, the > > > > root of the illusory sense of self. > > > > > > > > vulnerability is relinquishing of control, > > > > and the control relinquished is precisely > > > > the movement of focused attention. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to relinquish control is another form of control. > > > > > > Relinquishing happens downstream from understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > You are reading *effort* into the relinguishing. > > That is because you are seeing " control relinquished " > > as prescriptive. But if you read it as simply descriptive > > and not prescriptive, that what you say does not apply. > > > > Any " relinquishing " has to be a happy accident or > > by Grace or... because your basic point is correct, > > in my view: an *attempt* to relinquish control is > > still an attempt to control. > > > > The very notion of " being vulnerable " seems to have > > a paradox built into it. But that, in my view, is only > > if one thinks about it. We catch ourselves being too > > serious, or too _____, and then just relax, ease up > > all the time. It is really no big deal. > > > > But relinquishing thinking about it all... that maybe > > *is* a big deal and a real double-bind... don't know. > > Not something I really care to think about > > > > Bill > > > > > Perhaps..........It cannot be thought about. > > LOL > > > > My son.....my friend Sundog.....and I are off the see Adya. > > > Driving up the coast this morning. > > > > Heart full > > > > > toombaru > and I feel heart full to hear you speak like that. thank you toombaru Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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