Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 In a message dated 6/17/2006 3:02:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pliantheart writes: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr > wrote: > > > > " ... Without a self-critical and humorous approach > >to the challenge of unfolding an awareness BEYOND > >THE BRAIN, the brain itself will build-up either > >ascetic ambitions on the one hand or rationalizations > >of deteriorating activities or pleasures on the other > >hand. > > > >All this must be seen without the immaturity of > >contradiction, which is the brain trying to substitute > >thought for seeing... " > > > >J.K. > > > > His notion of awareness beyond the brain is a curious > one. What do you make of it Werner? Does it make sense > to you? > > He seems to be considering " conditioning " the nature of > brain function, and awareness as something beyond > conditioning and hence beyond the brain. > > But it seems to me that brain function could go beyond > mere conditioning. > > Bill > > L.E: The only problems is, that it can't be done. > > : " All this must be seen without the immaturity of contradiction, which is > the brain trying to substitute thought for seeing... " L.E: It implies that the self, the ego, can supercede the brain which is producing it. Easy to say but an impossible ideal. Seeing exists only because the brain is interpreting or re formulating energy like pain, hunger and externally as clouds, sun and trees. It is not the brain that substitutes thought for seeing, but the ego/self, the same one that is speaking and writing. Of course, the ego/self can be seen as an extension or function of the brain's neural network, but the way he says it, it is not true, and is just an attempt to improvise an abstract carrot that must be accomplished before some positive result can be experienced. Some teachers do this over and over again. " We must totally get to the bottom of this or that.... " Or, to understand this,, " we must fully comprehend that.... " It is a mean trick to fool the unwary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 " ... Without a self-critical and humorous approach to the challenge of unfolding an awareness BEYOND THE BRAIN, the brain itself will build-up either ascetic ambitions on the one hand or rationalizations of deteriorating activities or pleasures on the other hand. All this must be seen without the immaturity of contradiction, which is the brain trying to substitute thought for seeing... " J.K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > " ... Without a self-critical and humorous approach > to the challenge of unfolding an awareness BEYOND > THE BRAIN, the brain itself will build-up either > ascetic ambitions on the one hand or rationalizations > of deteriorating activities or pleasures on the other > hand. > > All this must be seen without the immaturity of > contradiction, which is the brain trying to substitute > thought for seeing... " > > J.K. > His notion of awareness beyond the brain is a curious one. What do you make of it Werner? Does it make sense to you? He seems to be considering " conditioning " the nature of brain function, and awareness as something beyond conditioning and hence beyond the brain. But it seems to me that brain function could go beyond mere conditioning. Bill Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Yes, Bill, There are several passages in K's teaching where he is metioning awareness and intelligence being outside the brain. Was he true or wrong ? I don't know. That question of conditionig is a interesting one. Just consider the genes. Are they created by a god or are they just the result of millions of years of trial and error of innumerous mutations just happened by chance ? Then in this case what was the conditioning factor ? Or was and is there rather no condtioning whatsoever and all rather is a vast conglomeration of happenings. Just imagine some huge comet crashing into the earth - would this comet be a conditioning facror ? Btw, it seems you have overseen in thatt text of K the word " humorous " . Why do you thing one has to be humorous in regard to an " unfodling awareness outside the brain " ? Maybe here is the key to better understand what K has meant ? Werner Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > " ... Without a self-critical and humorous approach > > to the challenge of unfolding an awareness BEYOND > > THE BRAIN, the brain itself will build-up either > > ascetic ambitions on the one hand or rationalizations > > of deteriorating activities or pleasures on the other > > hand. > > > > All this must be seen without the immaturity of > > contradiction, which is the brain trying to substitute > > thought for seeing... " > > > > J.K. > > > > His notion of awareness beyond the brain is a curious > one. What do you make of it Werner? Does it make sense > to you? > > He seems to be considering " conditioning " the nature of > brain function, and awareness as something beyond > conditioning and hence beyond the brain. > > But it seems to me that brain function could go beyond > mere conditioning. > > Bill > > > > Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > " ... Without a self-critical and humorous approach > > to the challenge of unfolding an awareness BEYOND > > THE BRAIN, the brain itself will build-up either > > ascetic ambitions on the one hand or rationalizations > > of deteriorating activities or pleasures on the other > > hand. > > > > All this must be seen without the immaturity of > > contradiction, which is the brain trying to substitute > > thought for seeing... " > > > > J.K. > > > > His notion of awareness beyond the brain is a curious > one. What do you make of it Werner? Does it make sense > to you? > > He seems to be considering " conditioning " the nature of > brain function, and awareness as something beyond > conditioning and hence beyond the brain. > > But it seems to me that brain function could go beyond > mere conditioning. > > Bill > > > > Bill > This is where it gets fun, so, the brain was created to filter through and process images which became 'words', which produce feelings which produce thoughts about. (And thoughts, my friends, are free-associations, just how did we pick up on this/that/any thought? Er, our intellectual, cultural, historical, sexual, familial, or religious inheritance/indoctrination) So, let's just say, someone could have called a brain, goats cheese, (Stop!) it's all about content, then no? And content IS the nature of the brain. Now how is content seen? Awareness (of images.) Yours In Love, Ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Yes, Bill, > > There are several passages in K's teaching where he is metioning > awareness and intelligence being outside the brain. > > Was he true or wrong ? I don't know. > > That question of conditionig is a interesting one. Just consider the > genes. Are they created by a god or are they just the result of > millions of years of trial and error of innumerous mutations just > happened by chance ? > > Then in this case what was the conditioning factor ? Or was and is > there rather no condtioning whatsoever and all rather is a vast > conglomeration of happenings. Just imagine some huge comet crashing > into the earth - would this comet be a conditioning facror ? When we go down the the quantum level (as in quantum physics) the notion of lock-step conditioning gives way to a fuzzy world that can only be described in terms of probabilities. It seems the notion of conditioning carries with it a lot of the strict cause-effect baggage of Newtonian physics. The book *The Emperor's New Mind* by Roger Penrose explores the idea that the brain operates at the quantum level, not just at the (relatively) macro level of neurons. It is an interesting hypothesis. From that perspective one could interpret K's " trans brain " notions about awareness as really being " trans neural " , and that when the conditioning processes have quieted down sufficiently (when the " neural machine " has quieted down) there can be glimpses into the Mysterious Unknown of quantum level brain function. And Penrose's specific theories aren't what is important here... just that the " machine-like " qualities of conditioned processes in the brain needn't be considered to account for all that goes on in the brain. Indeed, there is no reason to suppose that they do. > Btw, it seems you have overseen in thatt text of K the > word " humorous " . Why do you thing one has to be humorous in regard to > an " unfodling awareness outside the brain " ? Maybe here is the key to > better understand what K has meant ? Glad you directed my attention to that, as you are right... I had skipped over/not noticed. What strikes me is that a humorous view (of what happens in consciousness) represents a defiance of those conditioned processes. It is conditioning that does not have a sense of humor. Conditioning is all about what is " correct " or what " follows " ... so by maintaining a sense of humor through it all one stays out of the spirit of the conditioning... and that is a good point, is it not? Conditioning seems always to take things SO SERIOUSLY! So maybe that is a flag: if we are sunk deeply in seriousness then most likely we are sunk deeply in conditioning as well. Bill > Werner > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > " ... Without a self-critical and humorous approach > > > to the challenge of unfolding an awareness BEYOND > > > THE BRAIN, the brain itself will build-up either > > > ascetic ambitions on the one hand or rationalizations > > > of deteriorating activities or pleasures on the other > > > hand. > > > > > > All this must be seen without the immaturity of > > > contradiction, which is the brain trying to substitute > > > thought for seeing... " > > > > > > J.K. > > > > > > > His notion of awareness beyond the brain is a curious > > one. What do you make of it Werner? Does it make sense > > to you? > > > > He seems to be considering " conditioning " the nature of > > brain function, and awareness as something beyond > > conditioning and hence beyond the brain. > > > > But it seems to me that brain function could go beyond > > mere conditioning. > > > > Bill > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > " ... Without a self-critical and humorous approach > > > to the challenge of unfolding an awareness BEYOND > > > THE BRAIN, the brain itself will build-up either > > > ascetic ambitions on the one hand or rationalizations > > > of deteriorating activities or pleasures on the other > > > hand. > > > > > > All this must be seen without the immaturity of > > > contradiction, which is the brain trying to substitute > > > thought for seeing... " > > > > > > J.K. > > > > > > > His notion of awareness beyond the brain is a curious > > one. What do you make of it Werner? Does it make sense > > to you? > > > > He seems to be considering " conditioning " the nature of > > brain function, and awareness as something beyond > > conditioning and hence beyond the brain. > > > > But it seems to me that brain function could go beyond > > mere conditioning. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > This is where it gets fun, so, the brain was created to filter > through and process images which became 'words', which produce > feelings which produce thoughts about. (And thoughts, my friends, > are free-associations, just how did we pick up on this/that/any > thought? Er, our intellectual, cultural, historical, sexual, > familial, or religious inheritance/indoctrination) > > So, let's just say, someone could have called a brain, goats cheese, > (Stop!) it's all about content, then no? And content IS the nature > of the brain. > > Now how is content seen? Awareness (of images.) > > Yours In Love, > Ana > Good point Ana! What K calls conditioning seems to correlate pretty well with " content " . What K calls awareness seems to correlate to consciousness without content. Note that it is not the presence or absence of " content " that is signficant, really. Conditioning reigns when it is content that *drives* what is going on in the brain. When content simply flows through without playing a controlling role, that would be what I call consciousness without content. So if I behold a flower and experience its uniqueness, its beauty that is one thing... but if that flower begins to *structure my experience* that is another. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > " ... Without a self-critical and humorous approach > > > to the challenge of unfolding an awareness BEYOND > > > THE BRAIN, the brain itself will build-up either > > > ascetic ambitions on the one hand or rationalizations > > > of deteriorating activities or pleasures on the other > > > hand. > > > > > > All this must be seen without the immaturity of > > > contradiction, which is the brain trying to substitute > > > thought for seeing... " > > > > > > J.K. > > > > > > > His notion of awareness beyond the brain is a curious > > one. What do you make of it Werner? Does it make sense > > to you? > > > > He seems to be considering " conditioning " the nature of > > brain function, and awareness as something beyond > > conditioning and hence beyond the brain. > > > > But it seems to me that brain function could go beyond > > mere conditioning. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > This is where it gets fun, so, the brain was created to filter > through and process images which became 'words', which produce > feelings which produce thoughts about. (And thoughts, my friends, > are free-associations, just how did we pick up on this/that/any > thought? Er, our intellectual, cultural, historical, sexual, > familial, or religious inheritance/indoctrination) > > So, let's just say, someone could have called a brain, goats cheese, > (Stop!) it's all about content, then no? And content IS the nature > of the brain. > > Now how is content seen? Awareness (of images.) > > Yours In Love, > Ana > Teachers use concepts to toss a cog into the machinery of somnambulism. K was speaking to the moment. To make his statement about awareness beyond the brain as fact (in my opinion) would be misleading. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 > > So maybe that is a flag: if we are sunk deeply in seriousness > then most likely we are sunk deeply in conditioning as well. > > Bill Beautiful toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > " ... Without a self-critical and humorous approach > > > > to the challenge of unfolding an awareness BEYOND > > > > THE BRAIN, the brain itself will build-up either > > > > ascetic ambitions on the one hand or rationalizations > > > > of deteriorating activities or pleasures on the other > > > > hand. > > > > > > > > All this must be seen without the immaturity of > > > > contradiction, which is the brain trying to substitute > > > > thought for seeing... " > > > > > > > > J.K. > > > > > > > > > > His notion of awareness beyond the brain is a curious > > > one. What do you make of it Werner? Does it make sense > > > to you? > > > > > > He seems to be considering " conditioning " the nature of > > > brain function, and awareness as something beyond > > > conditioning and hence beyond the brain. > > > > > > But it seems to me that brain function could go beyond > > > mere conditioning. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > This is where it gets fun, so, the brain was created to filter > > through and process images which became 'words', which produce > > feelings which produce thoughts about. (And thoughts, my friends, > > are free-associations, just how did we pick up on this/that/any > > thought? Er, our intellectual, cultural, historical, sexual, > > familial, or religious inheritance/indoctrination) > > > > So, let's just say, someone could have called a brain, goats > cheese, > > (Stop!) it's all about content, then no? And content IS the nature > > of the brain. > > > > Now how is content seen? Awareness (of images.) > > > > Yours In Love, > > Ana > > > Nice Ana toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > " ... Without a self-critical and humorous approach > > > > to the challenge of unfolding an awareness BEYOND > > > > THE BRAIN, the brain itself will build-up either > > > > ascetic ambitions on the one hand or rationalizations > > > > of deteriorating activities or pleasures on the other > > > > hand. > > > > > > > > All this must be seen without the immaturity of > > > > contradiction, which is the brain trying to substitute > > > > thought for seeing... " > > > > > > > > J.K. > > > > > > > > > > His notion of awareness beyond the brain is a curious > > > one. What do you make of it Werner? Does it make sense > > > to you? > > > > > > He seems to be considering " conditioning " the nature of > > > brain function, and awareness as something beyond > > > conditioning and hence beyond the brain. > > > > > > But it seems to me that brain function could go beyond > > > mere conditioning. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > This is where it gets fun, so, the brain was created to filter > > through and process images which became 'words', which produce > > feelings which produce thoughts about. (And thoughts, my friends, > > are free-associations, just how did we pick up on this/that/any > > thought? Er, our intellectual, cultural, historical, sexual, > > familial, or religious inheritance/indoctrination) > > > > So, let's just say, someone could have called a brain, goats cheese, > > (Stop!) it's all about content, then no? And content IS the nature > > of the brain. > > > > Now how is content seen? Awareness (of images.) > > > > Yours In Love, > > Ana > > > > > > > Teachers use concepts to toss a cog into the machinery of somnambulism. > > K was speaking to the moment. > > To make his statement about awareness beyond the brain as fact (in my > opinion) would be misleading. > > toombaru > if you are saying that it is best to read his comment as metaphor and not take it as literally about the brain, yes.... Ana's point about content is nevertheless a very interesting one, in my view. BTW, toombaru. Have you noticed that a huge percentage of your posts are arrows aimed at shooting down what another contributor has posted? Perhaps you will feel you have met your goal here when no one posts anything here? When's the last time someone posted something here that you actually *liked*? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " ... Without a self-critical and humorous approach > > > > > to the challenge of unfolding an awareness BEYOND > > > > > THE BRAIN, the brain itself will build-up either > > > > > ascetic ambitions on the one hand or rationalizations > > > > > of deteriorating activities or pleasures on the other > > > > > hand. > > > > > > > > > > All this must be seen without the immaturity of > > > > > contradiction, which is the brain trying to substitute > > > > > thought for seeing... " > > > > > > > > > > J.K. > > > > > > > > > > > > > His notion of awareness beyond the brain is a curious > > > > one. What do you make of it Werner? Does it make sense > > > > to you? > > > > > > > > He seems to be considering " conditioning " the nature of > > > > brain function, and awareness as something beyond > > > > conditioning and hence beyond the brain. > > > > > > > > But it seems to me that brain function could go beyond > > > > mere conditioning. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is where it gets fun, so, the brain was created to filter > > > through and process images which became 'words', which produce > > > feelings which produce thoughts about. (And thoughts, my friends, > > > are free-associations, just how did we pick up on this/that/any > > > thought? Er, our intellectual, cultural, historical, sexual, > > > familial, or religious inheritance/indoctrination) > > > > > > So, let's just say, someone could have called a brain, goats > > cheese, > > > (Stop!) it's all about content, then no? And content IS the nature > > > of the brain. > > > > > > Now how is content seen? Awareness (of images.) > > > > > > Yours In Love, > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > Nice Ana > > > > toombaru > Boy are you ever quick! I just hit send on a question to you if you ever actually *like* someone's post here and then immediately see this! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " ... Without a self-critical and humorous approach > > > > > to the challenge of unfolding an awareness BEYOND > > > > > THE BRAIN, the brain itself will build-up either > > > > > ascetic ambitions on the one hand or rationalizations > > > > > of deteriorating activities or pleasures on the other > > > > > hand. > > > > > > > > > > All this must be seen without the immaturity of > > > > > contradiction, which is the brain trying to substitute > > > > > thought for seeing... " > > > > > > > > > > J.K. > > > > > > > > > > > > > His notion of awareness beyond the brain is a curious > > > > one. What do you make of it Werner? Does it make sense > > > > to you? > > > > > > > > He seems to be considering " conditioning " the nature of > > > > brain function, and awareness as something beyond > > > > conditioning and hence beyond the brain. > > > > > > > > But it seems to me that brain function could go beyond > > > > mere conditioning. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is where it gets fun, so, the brain was created to filter > > > through and process images which became 'words', which produce > > > feelings which produce thoughts about. (And thoughts, my friends, > > > are free-associations, just how did we pick up on this/that/any > > > thought? Er, our intellectual, cultural, historical, sexual, > > > familial, or religious inheritance/indoctrination) > > > > > > So, let's just say, someone could have called a brain, goats > cheese, > > > (Stop!) it's all about content, then no? And content IS the > nature > > > of the brain. > > > > > > Now how is content seen? Awareness (of images.) > > > > > > Yours In Love, > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > > > > > Teachers use concepts to toss a cog into the machinery of > somnambulism. > > > > K was speaking to the moment. > > > > To make his statement about awareness beyond the brain as fact (in > my > > opinion) would be misleading. > > > > toombaru > > > > if you are saying that it is best to read his comment > as metaphor and not take it as literally about the > brain, yes.... > > Ana's point about content is nevertheless a very interesting > one, in my view. > > BTW, toombaru. Have you noticed that a huge percentage of > your posts are arrows aimed at shooting down what another > contributor has posted? Perhaps you will feel you have met > your goal here when no one posts anything here? When's the > last time someone posted something here that you actually > *liked*? > > Bill > Both you and Ana rang my bell this morning.......and I responded with a positive statement. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Yes, Bill, > > > > There are several passages in K's teaching where he is metioning > > awareness and intelligence being outside the brain. > > > > Was he true or wrong ? I don't know. > > > > That question of conditionig is a interesting one. Just consider > the > > genes. Are they created by a god or are they just the result of > > millions of years of trial and error of innumerous mutations just > > happened by chance ? > > > > Then in this case what was the conditioning factor ? Or was and is > > there rather no condtioning whatsoever and all rather is a vast > > conglomeration of happenings. Just imagine some huge comet crashing > > into the earth - would this comet be a conditioning facror ? > > When we go down the the quantum level (as in quantum physics) > the notion of lock-step conditioning gives way to a fuzzy world > that can only be described in terms of probabilities. It seems > the notion of conditioning carries with it a lot of the strict > cause-effect baggage of Newtonian physics. > > The book *The Emperor's New Mind* by Roger Penrose explores the > idea that the brain operates at the quantum level, not just at > the (relatively) macro level of neurons. It is an interesting > hypothesis. > > From that perspective one could interpret K's " trans brain " notions > about awareness as really being " trans neural " , and that when > the conditioning processes have quieted down sufficiently (when > the " neural machine " has quieted down) there can be glimpses into > the Mysterious Unknown of quantum level brain function. > > And Penrose's specific theories aren't what is important here... > just that the " machine-like " qualities of conditioned processes > in the brain needn't be considered to account for all that goes > on in the brain. Indeed, there is no reason to suppose that they > do. > > > > Btw, it seems you have overseen in thatt text of K the > > word " humorous " . Why do you thing one has to be humorous in regard > to > > an " unfodling awareness outside the brain " ? Maybe here is the key > to > > better understand what K has meant ? > > Glad you directed my attention to that, as you are right... I had > skipped over/not noticed. > > What strikes me is that a humorous view (of what happens in > consciousness) represents a defiance of those conditioned > processes. It is conditioning that does not have a sense of > humor. Conditioning is all about what is " correct " or > what " follows " ... > > so by maintaining a sense of humor through it all one stays out > of the spirit of the conditioning... > > and that is a good point, is it not? > Conditioning seems always to take things SO SERIOUSLY! > > So maybe that is a flag: if we are sunk deeply in seriousness > then most likely we are sunk deeply in conditioning as well. > > Bill > > > > Werner > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > " ... Without a self-critical and humorous approach > > > > to the challenge of unfolding an awareness BEYOND > > > > THE BRAIN, the brain itself will build-up either > > > > ascetic ambitions on the one hand or rationalizations > > > > of deteriorating activities or pleasures on the other > > > > hand. > > > > > > > > All this must be seen without the immaturity of > > > > contradiction, which is the brain trying to substitute > > > > thought for seeing... " > > > > > > > > J.K. > > > > > > > > > > His notion of awareness beyond the brain is a curious > > > one. What do you make of it Werner? Does it make sense > > > to you? > > > > > > He seems to be considering " conditioning " the nature of > > > brain function, and awareness as something beyond > > > conditioning and hence beyond the brain. > > > > > > But it seems to me that brain function could go beyond > > > mere conditioning. > > > > > > Bill > > > > A sense of humor can also be considered a form of conditioning. Why is it that some cultures seem to cultivate it so much more than others? I don't think such terms as conditioning, or any other term, in general, can endure rigorous scrutiny for long. Language is always less than those who use it. Any word can have any meaning, and why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 In a message dated 6/17/2006 6:59:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pliantheart writes: > So if I behold a flower and experience its uniqueness, its > beauty that is one thing... but if that flower begins to > *structure my experience* that is another. > > Bill > L.E: Just " beholding a flower and experiencing its uniqueness is structuring your experience, changing the chemical and electical patterns of the brain. So it's another. Larry Epston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 In a message dated 6/17/2006 7:12:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, writes: > This is where it gets fun, so, the brain was created to filter > >through and process images which became 'words', which produce > >feelings which produce thoughts about. (And thoughts, my friends, > >are free-associations, just how did we pick up on this/that/any > >thought? Er, our intellectual, cultural, historical, sexual, > >familial, or religious inheritance/indoctrination) > L. E: The brain was not created. Trees were not created, human organsims are not created. The cells comprising the body extended themselves by growing out of themselves that organ we call the brain. Larry Epston www.epston.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > In a message dated 6/17/2006 7:12:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > writes: > > > This is where it gets fun, so, the brain was created to filter > > >through and process images which became 'words', which produce > > >feelings which produce thoughts about. (And thoughts, my friends, > > >are free-associations, just how did we pick up on this/that/any > > >thought? Er, our intellectual, cultural, historical, sexual, > > >familial, or religious inheritance/indoctrination) > > > > L. E: The brain was not created. Trees were not created, human organsims are > not created. The cells comprising the body extended themselves by growing > out of themselves that organ we call the brain. > > Larry Epston > www.epston.com The brain is a result of the process of evolution, of " creation " . You forgot to read the whole piece, why single out one sentence when it was explained in the next? To me, thought is solid creation. Thank about that, Larry. And to whom do you owe your self-creation? part of your father's sperm and your mother's ovum. Two cells uniting to form one Larry and One Larry cell became Larry body, brain, heart and soul and we are united in the spirit of One, in the vacuum of nothing, in the longing to be Self-fulfilled. How we become self-fulfilled is how we fill in our own blanks_______________. Endless cycles and infinite patterns, wheels upon wheels of cosmic dust. p.s. happy father's day to all fathers!! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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