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> He (Bill) hasn't seemed willing to follow me, at least not as far as

> I'd have preferred.

 

Reminds me that I have intended to get back to you

on something. Perhaps you recall back when you were

quite new to the list and talking about " I am " a lot,

and while that was not my preferred notation at all,

there was something compelling in the way that you

put it. I said at the time that I would give what you

had said consideration (back-burner style).

 

Well, I have done just that and I had a distinct

insight in connection with it. When I was meditating

the other night I saw something that was *very*

interesting and that would not have come to notice

I am sure if not for those notions of yours in the

back of my mind.

 

That being said... the tough part is that I am pretty

much at a loss as far as communicating about it. At

risk of making no sense at all here is a wild shot:

 

Meditating and beholding an intense wire-like energy

force... as if in the head... maybe more or less the

" third eye " region before/between the eyes... an energy

moving in a loop of sorts... and then did a kind of

" flip " where the " head and tail " of the energy were

reversed... as if the energy were seeking its own tail

and now what had been the tail was now the head etc.

 

Anyway, what struck with the " flip " was that one " end "

was the " I " ... and the other the " am " ... as if the

" I " and the " am " were weaving in an embrace (and the

polarity of the embrace could " flip " ).

 

With the " flip " it was the " I " that was to the fore...

and the " usual mode " for me was (it was clear) the

other way around. Hence my proclivity for " am " over

" I " .

 

When with the " I " aspect the sense of " choice " (something

you talked about) seemed pretty natural, though it was

a perpetually suspended " choice " .

 

I should also mention that by the end of the meditation

the " I " and the " am " ... the entire cycling energy...

had merged so the distinction was no more... which is

the natural state.

 

 

Bill

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Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart

wrote:

>

> > He (Bill) hasn't seemed willing to follow me, at least not as far as

> > I'd have preferred.

>

> Reminds me that I have intended to get back to you

> on something. Perhaps you recall back when you were

> quite new to the list and talking about " I am " a lot,

> and while that was not my preferred notation at all,

> there was something compelling in the way that you

> put it. I said at the time that I would give what you

> had said consideration (back-burner style).

>

> Well, I have done just that and I had a distinct

> insight in connection with it. When I was meditating

> the other night I saw something that was *very*

> interesting and that would not have come to notice

> I am sure if not for those notions of yours in the

> back of my mind.

>

> That being said... the tough part is that I am pretty

> much at a loss as far as communicating about it. At

> risk of making no sense at all here is a wild shot:

>

> Meditating and beholding an intense wire-like energy

> force... as if in the head... maybe more or less the

> " third eye " region before/between the eyes... an energy

> moving in a loop of sorts... and then did a kind of

> " flip " where the " head and tail " of the energy were

> reversed... as if the energy were seeking its own tail

> and now what had been the tail was now the head etc.

>

> Anyway, what struck with the " flip " was that one " end "

> was the " I " ... and the other the " am " ... as if the

> " I " and the " am " were weaving in an embrace (and the

> polarity of the embrace could " flip " ).

>

> With the " flip " it was the " I " that was to the fore...

> and the " usual mode " for me was (it was clear) the

> other way around. Hence my proclivity for " am " over

> " I " .

>

> When with the " I " aspect the sense of " choice " (something

> you talked about) seemed pretty natural, though it was

> a perpetually suspended " choice " .

>

> I should also mention that by the end of the meditation

> the " I " and the " am " ... the entire cycling energy...

> had merged so the distinction was no more... which is

> the natural state.

>

>

> Bill

>

 

 

Thank you for envigorating the thread. I guess I'm still at a loss as

to what prevents us from establishing a solid ground from which to

mine our currency, vis a vis, the witness or " I. " I know the notion

of the witness -- who watches, experiences, observes, compares and

contrasts all the things you describe -- is or (or,now, was -- is

that safe to say?) an abstraction to you. But now you seem to say

that you have kind of witnessed it, witnessed this witness, this

emphasis on the " I. " Is it a quiescence, a calm, a kind of eye of the

storm, now seen from the outside in, even if ever so fleetingly?

 

Maybe if we can expand on that experience, we can begin to reach an

understanding, if you'd like to proceed...

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Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@>

> wrote:

> >

> > > He (Bill) hasn't seemed willing to follow me, at least not as far as

> > > I'd have preferred.

> >

> > Reminds me that I have intended to get back to you

> > on something. Perhaps you recall back when you were

> > quite new to the list and talking about " I am " a lot,

> > and while that was not my preferred notation at all,

> > there was something compelling in the way that you

> > put it. I said at the time that I would give what you

> > had said consideration (back-burner style).

> >

> > Well, I have done just that and I had a distinct

> > insight in connection with it. When I was meditating

> > the other night I saw something that was *very*

> > interesting and that would not have come to notice

> > I am sure if not for those notions of yours in the

> > back of my mind.

> >

> > That being said... the tough part is that I am pretty

> > much at a loss as far as communicating about it. At

> > risk of making no sense at all here is a wild shot:

> >

> > Meditating and beholding an intense wire-like energy

> > force... as if in the head... maybe more or less the

> > " third eye " region before/between the eyes... an energy

> > moving in a loop of sorts... and then did a kind of

> > " flip " where the " head and tail " of the energy were

> > reversed... as if the energy were seeking its own tail

> > and now what had been the tail was now the head etc.

> >

> > Anyway, what struck with the " flip " was that one " end "

> > was the " I " ... and the other the " am " ... as if the

> > " I " and the " am " were weaving in an embrace (and the

> > polarity of the embrace could " flip " ).

> >

> > With the " flip " it was the " I " that was to the fore...

> > and the " usual mode " for me was (it was clear) the

> > other way around. Hence my proclivity for " am " over

> > " I " .

> >

> > When with the " I " aspect the sense of " choice " (something

> > you talked about) seemed pretty natural, though it was

> > a perpetually suspended " choice " .

> >

> > I should also mention that by the end of the meditation

> > the " I " and the " am " ... the entire cycling energy...

> > had merged so the distinction was no more... which is

> > the natural state.

> >

> >

> > Bill

> >

>

>

> Thank you for envigorating the thread. I guess I'm still at a loss as

> to what prevents us from establishing a solid ground from which to

> mine our currency, vis a vis, the witness or " I. " I know the notion

> of the witness -- who watches, experiences, observes, compares and

> contrasts all the things you describe -- is or (or,now, was -- is

> that safe to say?) an abstraction to you. But now you seem to say

> that you have kind of witnessed it, witnessed this witness, this

> emphasis on the " I. " Is it a quiescence, a calm, a kind of eye of the

> storm, now seen from the outside in, even if ever so fleetingly?

>

> Maybe if we can expand on that experience, we can begin to reach an

> understanding, if you'd like to proceed...

>

 

the reason -- in my case -- " so fleetingly " is that the mere

consciousness of that... which is more than a witness

really, it is more of a psychic *pressure*, an intense

piercingness, the very white-hot tip of that wire-like

energy force... the mere consciousness of that triggers

a taking of itself as its own object, which is a kind

of " melt-down " of that white-hot wire core such that the

intense focus of conscious-awareness into such a keenness

suddenly expands to fill everywhere, and only a soft

luminous everywhere-at-once-ness remains.

 

something like one of those subatomic particles that

they discover that has a very brief half-life...

 

and the reason that " mere consciousness " does so trigger

is a realization, effectively, that in that awareness-

presence of I-intent is an inherent incompleteness that

yearns to be transcended, that yearns to be shot-beyond.

 

and that yearning, is that not the pure nature of desire,

the pure nature of a longing to transcend, to go beyond,

to know not just This, but This-That trans-fused as One?

 

Bill

 

PS: the writing of the first paragraph above was also

a quite literal experience of the very thing it describes.

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