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Cybill SHEPHERD Lesbian News Magazine Interview

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From Rick REED in San Francisco.......

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Database: MasterFILE Premier

 

 

 

Section: Cover story

CYBILL SHEPHERD

 

 

 

From Mythology and Euripides to Tinseltown and Lesbian Fantasies, Cybill

Shares it all this exclusive interview with the LN

 

Baby-faced, hard-ass Assistant District Attorney Ben Stone, played

sublimely by Michael Moriority on the hit TV show Law and Order, stared

at his pocket watch as the criminal he was bargaining with stated terms

for his testimony. Dismissive, yet confrontational, dripping in cruel

irony without spilling a drop, Stone in turn replied, " Well, sir, I

would like a date with Cybill Shepherd in a hot tub, " a sentiment'

shared by lesbians everywhere. And while it may seem too far-fetched to

imagine that an actress who is as much a part of American pop culture as

Newman, Redford, McDonald's and Coca Cola could ever fantasize about

being with one of us, she does. She just hasn't found the right woman

--yet.

 

Cybill Shepherd is no pop-up blonde; She's a smart, lusty,

freedom-loving feminist who swings her round hips to a comedic beat

Monday nights on her hit CBS show Cybill. Playing forty-something,

menopausal actress Cybill Sheridan teamed with rich, martini-loving

divorcee Maryanne (played with sophisticated gusto by Christine

Baranski), the intimate best friends finagle their way through life in

precarious Hollywood and Beverly Hills. The TV duo has been compared to

the British (and gay) cult faves of Absolutely Fabulous. But they are

perhaps more reminiscent of Lucy and Ethel who industriously scheme to

get what they want, right a wrong, or just strive to be happy by

whatever zany means necessary. For, like a loosened Lucille Ball,

Shepherd's designer duds and Reebok sneakers are but a cover for a hot

tub woman who runs her own show and is as comfortable talking about

mythology and Euripides as Tinseltown and lesbian fantasies.

 

Unfortunately, because of the " beauty trap, " Shepherd says, few people

take her seriously. Her " best interview " to date was with Sheila James

Kuehl for the 1993 cover of The Advocate following her banner-carrying

participation in that year's March on Washington for Lesbian, Gay, & Bi

Equal Rights. But given a chance, Shepherd is not shy about her opinions

nor is she afraid to do the previously unthinkable for a female

Hollywood star: grow old in public.

 

Of course being both outspoken and silent has gotten her in trouble,

most notably during the wild publicity surrounding Moonlighting and

co-star Bruce Willis. It's a subject that follows her like a bonnet of

fruit flies, as does her cover girl image and her " bad girl " role in

longtime friend and once lover Peter Bogdonovich's classic, The Last

Picture Show.

 

" I didn't have anything to do with being beautiful, " says Shepherd in a

one hour-plus phone interview with the Lesbian News recently. " My beauty

fit in at the right time and the right place. But when someone is

beautiful, that gives people an excuse to go out of their way to be mean

as if someone who's beautiful isn't really deep, doesn't really hurt,

and isn't really a human being. "

 

Some of that pain, some of that longing to be really real, comes out in

her most recent endeavor, Talk Memphis To Me, a collection of blues

songs rendered in that Shepherd-esque mix of crooning cabaret and sweet

Southern optimism. But her heart and soul was revealed in a recent

Cybill scene as her character cradled her grandchild and sang the title

lullaby with a gentle, aching love for a time gone by.

 

Cybill Shepherd was born on February 18, 1950 in Memphis, Tennessee, a

time in the segregated South when entrances were marked " whites " and

" colored only. " " There was a tremendous amount of stored up hate, and

though obviously I didn't take the brunt of it, it hurt me deeply, " she

says. " My sense of oppression involved being a woman. We were told never

to have sex before we were married, to avoid it if at all possible and

certainly not to enjoy it. Touching and masturbation was accepted for

boys. But we had to be 'pure.' It was a double standard. " But even then

Shepherd defied the norms, becoming sexually active at age 15, though

confined enough by convention to feel uncomfortable and unable to

discuss sex with her non-sexual best friends a secret duality that

resulted in " tremendous confusion. "

 

In April of 1968, as with so many of her generation, 18-year-old

Shepherd experienced a " political awakening " with the assassination of

Martin Luther King. Though " very moved " by him, she knew nothing of the

sanitation workers' strike that brought King to Memphis even though it

was occurring three-and-a-half miles away from her high school. The

local paper had effected a " white out, " making real news available only

to readers of the New York Times. A school leader -she was president of

her sorority she felt a responsibility for the hatred that led to the

civil rights leader's death, a guilt planted so deeply it would become

the seed from which her later commitment to truth and activism would

sprout.

 

Shepherd moved to New York City, went to college and pursued a modeling

career, winning " Model of the Year " in 1968 and landing on the covers of

Life, Vogue and Glamour, among others. It was a time when she and Cheryl

Tiegs were the curvy answer to years of skinny Twiggy chic. Shepherd

became even more aware of the body politic after she discovered feminism

in 1970 through a trilogy of books: Kate Millet's Sexual Politics, The

Female Eunuch by Germaine Greer, and The Feminine Mystique by Betty

Friedan. The books explained her innate sense of rebellion and urge to

womanpower, while fashion designers treated her like an unwieldy coat

hanger and " sleazy " photographers asked her to pose nude with a

casualness so ruthless she felt humiliated.

 

Shepherd's glamorous covers were spotted by 'director Bogdonovich who

cast her as the sexy Jacy Farrow in the acclaimed 1971 The Last Picture

Show. They started a seven-year romance so profound that their

friendship lasts to this day, primarily, she says, because he treated

her as an equal. But their relationship was not exclusive and her lauded

debut also caught the eye of a Memphis boy named Elvis Presley. The

" drop-dead gorgeous " singer rented a movie theater for their first date

(they saw Goodbye,

 

Columbus) which launched a month-long courtship. " He had an extremely

beautiful voice, and there was a sweetness, a vulnerability -- he was

sensual and very sexy. And there was a softness about his face -- it was

kind of feminine with his full lips. I found his softness wonderfully

attractive, " she says. But the drags and thugs at Graceland got in the

way and she returned to Bogdonovich.

 

Shepherd enjoyed a successful film career, starring in Elaine May's The

Heartbreak Kid, and Taxi Driver in which she spurned Robert de Niro.

After her 1978 break up with Bogdonovich, she returned home, married an

auto-parts dealer and gave birth to daughter Clementine. The marriage

lasted four years, after which she returned to Hollywood.

 

But roles were hard to find so she took to the road doing regional

theater and developing her skills as a comedic performer -- Bogdonovich

had introduced her to the work of Carole Lombard who could be both

beautiful and funny. Meanwhile the politics of " body integrity " led

Shepherd to get involved in the abortion rights movement in 1984 when

Congress outlawed medicaid funding for poor women. Having read Gloria

Steinem's Outrageous Acts and Everyday Rebellions, the actress called

the feminist leader and asked what she could do which in turn led to her

involvement in Voters for Choice and her first protest march (in 1989).

 

In 1985 Shepherd got a break and landed the lead role of Maddie Hayes in

ABC's detective series Moonlighting, playing opposite an unknown named

Bruce Willis. But during the show's four-year popularity, her character

was diminished in favor of boosting his. " In 'Moonlight,' the immature

hireling of the elegantly confident Maddie Hayes now overshadowed his

boss lady and cut her down to size, " Susan Faludi wrote in Backlash: The

Undeclared War Against American Women. But Shepherd was blamed by the

unrelenting tabloids for feuding on the set that eventually led to the

series' demise, something for which Shepherd is still taking the rap

despite time and Willis' subsequent " big career. "

 

To help her heal, Shepherd turned to mythology and discovered " the

feminist goddess in every woman. " She still delights in characters such

as Demeter and Sheila-nagig, the latter a carved representation of the

" dirty old woman " portrayed as a squatting naked woman displaying her

vulva. Her recommended reading list includes: Joseph ( " follow your

bliss " ) Campbell's The Power of Myth, Robert Graves' The White Goddess,

Jean Shinoda Bolen's Goddesses in Everywoman, Clarissa Pinkola Estes'

Women Who Run With the Wolves, and Barbara Walker's The Woman's

Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets.

 

In 1989 Shepherd got divorced from her second husband, with whom she'd

had twins Zack and Ariel, became active in the Memphis-based National

Civil Rights Museum which she helped with Rosa Paris and starred in The

Last Picture Show sequel entitled Texasville. Though her character in

both the book and screenplay was intimately involved with another woman,

to the horror of the townsfolk, Bogdonovich refused to allow the women

to consummate the relationship for fear of turning off male audience

members, she says. Representing homosexuality didn't frightened

Shepherd, however, who has gay and lesbian friends and family members,

the revelation of which enabled her to deal with her own deep

South-spawned homophobia. " Anyone who's homophobic is insecure about

then' own heterosexuality. More than that, I think it's an envy of

pleasure. " shepherd appalled that clitorectomies and male circumcision

are not considered human rights issues.

 

The April 1993 March on Washington was only Shepherd's second protest

march, despite her personal convictions. " There was a lot of fear

involved. Yes, I worried [about snipers]. But at a certain point I

couldn't conceive of not doing it. It was so much the right thing to do.

Some people feel you should entertain and not speak out. But for me,

this comes from a deep down conscious place. It is fundamental. I had to

speak out otherwise who would do it? So I opted to march, to walk my

talk. Being a parent has made me a better person. Kids know when you're

lying -- you have to live what you say. So when [March stage producer]

Robin Tyler called, I thought this is my chance. I'm sorry for the

people who didn't do it. "

 

Shepherd sparked a bit of controversy herself, however, when organizers

told her she could march behind the banner but not put her hand on it

because she wasn't a dues-paying lesbian. " I insisted on carrying the

banner. I wasn't there for the publicity. I was there to make a

statement, and that was a big commitment and investment for me. I had to

stand up for myself. "

 

Shepherd says she prayed as she walked. " Ultimately it takes courage for

any of us to do this. So even if you're afraid, you do it anyway. I had

a spiritual experience, the experience of having angry people waving

signs at me and calling me those names as we walked. It takes a leap of

imagination to understand how another human being can learn to do that,

but I remember that the whites who marched with Martin Luther King were

called 'nigger lovers.' So this march had to be one of the greatest

things I've ever done. Anger [at injustice] can fuel you to do good

things. "

 

During her speech that day, televised live on C-SPAN, Shepherd talked

about how her father feared that by marching with gays and lesbians,

some people might think she was a lesbian. " Yeah, you're fight. Fine, "

she told him, noting that " Jesus accepted everyone. "

 

Shepherd is now an American Comedy Award and four-time Golden Globe

winner and Emmy nominee who is having a ball playing a road racer and

safety-conscious morn in Mercedes-Benz commercials and, since 1994,

exec-producing and starting in Cybill which draws loosely from her own

life, including guilt she still feels for perpetuating The Beauty Myth.

 

" My image on those covers was re-touched. They made me more perfect than

I was. I feel bad about that now. The point was to have people buy the

products and buy the magazines. I do feel responsible. In fact we did an

episode about that on the show. My character Cybill Sheridan spots a

billboard where they'd skinnied me down. I said, 'Where's my butt?

Where're my legs?' So Maryanne and I go up on the ledge and draw on

curves. The show said what I really wanted to say. When I was model, I

never looked that good and I don't want to keep the lie going. It was a

funny insider's view of being part of that oppression. "

 

" I am a revolutionary at heart, " says Shepherd, using her comedy to

cause trouble and raise awareness. Last Valentine's Day, for instance,

she consciously related the ancient valentine to the vulva and described

private parts as often as possible. " How can kids learn about themselves

if they don't know what things are called? " she asks. " The network

censor said we couldn't say 'vagina' but they didn't know what a labia

was so that got through -- in front of a live audience -- and it got the

biggest laugh. It was the proudest moment of my career. It was

revolutionary. But we're still fighting. It's okay to say 'penis' but

not 'pussy.' Why? "

 

Shepherd expects the network censors to loop a more acceptable term over

" labia " when that show is prepared for rebroadcast. " This is a radical

feminist show in it's fourth year. But we're fighting to stay alive.

This happens to all middle-aged women, not just me. Part of the problem

is that I play my sexuality, though I do it humorously. But there has to

be room for us all women of all shapes and sizes. "

 

And sexualities. Shepherd " loves " what Ellen DeGeneres is doing on her

show and recognizes it's importance in possibly preventing teenage

suicide through self-esteem. She also loves the power of Xena: Warrior

Princess, and the erotica of Bound, Desert Hearts, and The Wedding

Banquet. The actress once tried to develop a film project based on the

" fabulous " lesbian detective story Everything You Have Is Mine by Sondra

Scopatone, which she thought she coud make " cheap " for two million

dollars. But after many discussions, " nobody would touch it. You'd think

now... We tried to get a lesbian character on our show B we were nixed.

They said the part wasn't big enough. " She chuckles. " That's bullshit.

But we're fighting it. It's so stupid 'the major networks are losing

viewers by the millions and I think they're trying to play it safe. But

there's no going back. But the truth is we always have to be on alert.

There's always a chance for things to get horrible. Who would have ever

thought we'd have fundamentalists taking over school boards, controlling

our literature. Even trying to control [kid's] exposure to the theory of

evolution. "

 

Though Shepherd acknowledges there " might be a possibility " of producing

the lesbian detective story now, she laughs that she may be too old for

the part now. " I'd really love to do it, but it's really hard for me to

do practically anything else right now. I am a working more of three

kids. " And she's involved in almost every aspect of her show, including

trying to bring on a lesbian character. " Or it could be Maryanne and I

there's a possibility. " One episode features Cybill and Maryanne

ascending the stairs to the bedroom, hand in hand.

 

Shepherd says she finds most magazines " stupid and boring, " but she

enjoys reading the Lesbian News. And though she hasn't actually slept

with a woman yet, she fantasizes about it " absolutely, all the time.

It's one of my most common fantasies, " she says. " I think it's one of

the most beautiful things, two women that are lovers. I guess I just

haven't found the fight woman at the fight time yet.

 

" I've stood up all my life saying that women don't have to be in love to

have sex. That's not just a male prerogative. But as I've gotten older,

what's gotten more important to me is not the sex so much as the loving

intimacy and my wanting to be able to have the capacity to be close to

someone. So I think, as far as just to do it with somebody--I won't say

I won't. Never say never. Right now I'm in a loving relationship with a

man [her musical director Robert Martin], but he's certainly the most

open to all his own sexual sides and is the most in touch with himself

sexually. He's very willing to try different things, to explore within

our sexual relationship. I don't want to get real personal about it, but

yeah, fantasies are part of it. Sex toys are part of it. Vibrators are

part of it. Erotic movies, erotic literature. And we have a lot of fun.

 

" I actually read a book that changed my sexuality a lot. Gina Ogden is a

sex therapist. She wrote a book called Every Woman's Guide to Safer Sex

in the '90s. It covered everything. There's this wonderful Sexual Bill

of Rights. I was 40 years old when I read it and it blew my mind.

There's a wonderful chapter on masturbation called 'Flying Solo.' It

kind of gave me a different perspective and I started experimenting just

by myself. I'll be 48 in February and I'm having more fun, by myself.

I'm being more experimental -- by myself with everything that's

available, but also with my parmer. I like to fantasize. I think the

movie Bound was really erotic. Where are more movies with things like

that? I found that to be one of the most erotic things I've ever seen.

It is the hottest movie. I can't think of a sex scene that was as sexy

and wonderful. Now, I couldn't handle the vi61ence in the movie. I fast

forwarded through that on video. But the love scene could we have more

of that please. "

 

Once upon a time Cybill Shepherd surrendered to the critics, giving up

on ever singing again in public, after cruel reviews. But with Talk

Memphis to Me she has returned home to her heart.

 

" More than anything, I'm learning to love myself as I age, " she says. " I

understand that sometimes we may feel strong, and other times what we

are doing is really hard. And sometimes I've given up. But then

something comes along to encourage me. " Something in the way B.B. King

sings the blues. Something in the air on Beale Street. Something that

connects her to Memphis, " and then I can't help remembering who I was,

the joy of having my feet on the ground, " where contributions are

supported, not diminished.

 

What would Cybill Shepherd tell her lesbian and gay fans? She quotes

Goethe, as if recapping her own story: " Whatever you believe you can do,

begin it; boldness has genius, power and magic in it. "

 

For more information on Cybill Shepherd, visit her website at

www.cybill, com

 

~~~~~~~~

 

By Karen Ocamb

 

Karen Ocamb is a Los Angeles-based national freelance writer.

 

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Source: Lesbian News, Jan98, Vol. 23 Issue 6, p20, 3p

Item: 152504

 

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