Guest guest Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston wrote: > > In a message dated 6/20/2006 9:15:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > pliantheart writes: > > > > > > > If something is " bothering us " then it is > > something that repeats. Of something that > > occurs only once we do not say that it is > > *bothering* us. > > > > And if it is something that repeats then it > > is conditioning. It is a " program " that is > > playing over and over again. In that it is > > triggering our actual feelings as part of its > > routine it seems *real* to us. But how real > > can it be when it is a program playing over > > and over? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > L.E: Did you ever hear a stuck record that just repeats the same song or > > phrase over and over? How real can that be? And it doesn't take long to bother > > you enought to shut it off. But when this happens internally, it is not > > conditioning or a program. Before 1920 both of these words had not yet been > > invented. > When this happens it doesn't seem to be YOU that is doing the repeating, it > seems to be happening within you, specifically, in your mind, which resides in > the electrical neural net of the brain. Since thinking is an electrical > phenomenon, it is not surpising that a circuit, or pattern will sometimes connect > is a circular loop and repeat. This may be experienced as " bothering " or > annoying internally just as grass blower my " bother " externally, so to speak. It > is just a temporary abberation in most of us, and goes away as the nervous > system sorts it out and repairs itself. > But again, it is not real in an essential sense, just as thinking is not real > in an essential sense, nor is the ego/self real in an essential sense. The > only thing that is real in an essential sense is Life Itself, the Infinite > Universe or the Empty Space of Nothingness out of which all this arises. But > that's another story. There are lots of things that repeat. Keeping it to the internals of the human body, as you suggest, is a good way to look at it in my view. And there certainly are a lot of things that repeat there, for example the heart beat. If I want to I can tune into my heart rhythm and just stay there. But usually I am not interested in doing that. But what is significant in relation to this discussion is not that something repeats (such as the heart rhythm) but whether the attention is " captured " by the pattern of repetition. If the attention *is* captured then that could be called a " program " of sorts in the sense I was talking about. But mere repetition (such as the heart rhythm) is not a program in the sense that *I was talking about* [certainly the heart rhythm is due to a program(s) of some sort, but not of the same sort I was considering]. So your comments have the effect of bringing to the fore an important point: it is not just that there is a " program " , but that there is a program involving the process(es) of attention. So thanks! I find that a key point. Bill > > p.s. Anyhow, thanks for presenting this topic for consideration, and if my > response pricks at your mind like a needle, and you think I am being unkind or > ridiculing you in any way, or have any complaint about my method or style of > consideration, be sure to complain and make you objections known. And if you'd > rather not have me on this list, be sure to cast your vote at voting time. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Hello again:-) This subject of repeating patterns reminds me of something very interesting I read about how a trance is induced. the URL is http://www.trance.edu/ To me, from what I have learned, a repeated pattern in life can fixate attention, narrow attention and create memes... even a heart beat seems to do this. Also it is possible that " time " moves on a constant linier path due exclusively to a repeated pattern or frequency that acts as a carrier wave that reduces our attention and ties our attention (us), to the illusion of time. Stu " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > In a message dated 6/20/2006 9:15:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > pliantheart@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > If something is " bothering us " then it is > > > something that repeats. Of something that > > > occurs only once we do not say that it is > > > *bothering* us. > > > > > > And if it is something that repeats then it > > > is conditioning. It is a " program " that is > > > playing over and over again. In that it is > > > triggering our actual feelings as part of its > > > routine it seems *real* to us. But how real > > > can it be when it is a program playing over > > > and over? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > L.E: Did you ever hear a stuck record that just repeats the same > song or > > > phrase over and over? How real can that be? And it doesn't take > long to bother > > > you enought to shut it off. But when this happens internally, it > is not > > > conditioning or a program. Before 1920 both of these words had > not yet been > > > invented. > > When this happens it doesn't seem to be YOU that is doing the > repeating, it > > seems to be happening within you, specifically, in your mind, which > resides in > > the electrical neural net of the brain. Since thinking is an > electrical > > phenomenon, it is not surpising that a circuit, or pattern will > sometimes connect > > is a circular loop and repeat. This may be experienced as > " bothering " or > > annoying internally just as grass blower my " bother " externally, so > to speak. It > > is just a temporary abberation in most of us, and goes away as the > nervous > > system sorts it out and repairs itself. > > But again, it is not real in an essential sense, just as thinking is > not real > > in an essential sense, nor is the ego/self real in an essential > sense. The > > only thing that is real in an essential sense is Life Itself, the > Infinite > > Universe or the Empty Space of Nothingness out of which all this > arises. But > > that's another story. > > There are lots of things that repeat. Keeping it to the internals of the > human body, as you suggest, is a good way to look at it in my view. > And there certainly are a lot of things that repeat there, for example > the heart beat. If I want to I can tune into my heart rhythm and just > stay there. But usually I am not interested in doing that. But what is > significant in relation to this discussion is not that something repeats > (such as the heart rhythm) but whether the attention is " captured " by the > pattern of repetition. If the attention *is* captured then that could > be called a " program " of sorts in the sense I was talking about. > But mere repetition (such as the heart rhythm) is not a program in > the sense that *I was talking about* [certainly the heart rhythm is > due to a program(s) of some sort, but not of the same sort I was > considering]. > > So your comments have the effect of bringing to the fore an important > point: it is not just that there is a " program " , but that there is > a program involving the process(es) of attention. So thanks! I find > that a key point. > > Bill > > > > > > p.s. Anyhow, thanks for presenting this topic for consideration, and > if my > > response pricks at your mind like a needle, and you think I am being > unkind or > > ridiculing you in any way, or have any complaint about my method or > style of > > consideration, be sure to complain and make you objections known. > And if you'd > > rather not have me on this list, be sure to cast your vote at voting > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > > Hello again:-) > > This subject of repeating patterns reminds me of something very > interesting I read about how a trance is induced. > the URL is > http://www.trance.edu/ > > To me, from what I have learned, a repeated pattern in life can fixate > attention, narrow attention and create memes... even a heart beat > seems to do this. > > Also it is possible that " time " moves on a constant linier path due > exclusively to a repeated pattern or frequency that acts as a carrier > wave that reduces our attention and ties our attention (us), to the > illusion of time. > > Stu Good points. Also in computer chips there is a " clock " . A 1 Ghz (gigahertz) Pentium has a clock with one billion cycles per second. Everything the chip does is synchronized to the " beat " of its clock. Bill > > > " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 6/20/2006 9:15:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > pliantheart@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If something is " bothering us " then it is > > > > something that repeats. Of something that > > > > occurs only once we do not say that it is > > > > *bothering* us. > > > > > > > > And if it is something that repeats then it > > > > is conditioning. It is a " program " that is > > > > playing over and over again. In that it is > > > > triggering our actual feelings as part of its > > > > routine it seems *real* to us. But how real > > > > can it be when it is a program playing over > > > > and over? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > L.E: Did you ever hear a stuck record that just repeats the same > > song or > > > > phrase over and over? How real can that be? And it doesn't take > > long to bother > > > > you enought to shut it off. But when this happens internally, it > > is not > > > > conditioning or a program. Before 1920 both of these words had > > not yet been > > > > invented. > > > When this happens it doesn't seem to be YOU that is doing the > > repeating, it > > > seems to be happening within you, specifically, in your mind, which > > resides in > > > the electrical neural net of the brain. Since thinking is an > > electrical > > > phenomenon, it is not surpising that a circuit, or pattern will > > sometimes connect > > > is a circular loop and repeat. This may be experienced as > > " bothering " or > > > annoying internally just as grass blower my " bother " externally, so > > to speak. It > > > is just a temporary abberation in most of us, and goes away as the > > nervous > > > system sorts it out and repairs itself. > > > But again, it is not real in an essential sense, just as thinking is > > not real > > > in an essential sense, nor is the ego/self real in an essential > > sense. The > > > only thing that is real in an essential sense is Life Itself, the > > Infinite > > > Universe or the Empty Space of Nothingness out of which all this > > arises. But > > > that's another story. > > > > There are lots of things that repeat. Keeping it to the internals of the > > human body, as you suggest, is a good way to look at it in my view. > > And there certainly are a lot of things that repeat there, for example > > the heart beat. If I want to I can tune into my heart rhythm and just > > stay there. But usually I am not interested in doing that. But what is > > significant in relation to this discussion is not that something repeats > > (such as the heart rhythm) but whether the attention is " captured " > by the > > pattern of repetition. If the attention *is* captured then that could > > be called a " program " of sorts in the sense I was talking about. > > But mere repetition (such as the heart rhythm) is not a program in > > the sense that *I was talking about* [certainly the heart rhythm is > > due to a program(s) of some sort, but not of the same sort I was > > considering]. > > > > So your comments have the effect of bringing to the fore an important > > point: it is not just that there is a " program " , but that there is > > a program involving the process(es) of attention. So thanks! I find > > that a key point. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > p.s. Anyhow, thanks for presenting this topic for consideration, and > > if my > > > response pricks at your mind like a needle, and you think I am being > > unkind or > > > ridiculing you in any way, or have any complaint about my method or > > style of > > > consideration, be sure to complain and make you objections known. > > And if you'd > > > rather not have me on this list, be sure to cast your vote at voting > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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