Guest guest Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 someone wrote: One does give up wondering at some point...perhaps the point at which we see that all of <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no-thing real. ........ it is that end of wondering that seems crucial to me... it seems that can only end because there is some kind of fullness, a silent empty fullness, that makes any sense of lack seem superficial (which it is)... this is only sinking in as I write this... it strikes me that the reason I no longer wonder is because of a fullness, and while it is only in emptiness... there is nothing THERE... somehow there is substance and it is that substance that leaves me satisfied. there are still so many kinks being worked out... no doubt about that! but the ever-present fullness running through it all... somehow sustains me through it all... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > someone wrote: > > One does give up wondering at some point...perhaps the point at which > we see that all of <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is > no-thing real. > ....... > > it is that end of wondering that seems crucial > to me... > > it seems that can only end because there is > some kind of fullness, a silent empty fullness, > that makes any sense of lack seem superficial > (which it is)... > > this is only sinking in as I write this... > > it strikes me that the reason I no longer wonder > is because of a fullness, and while it is only > in emptiness... there is nothing THERE... > somehow there is substance > > and it is that substance that leaves me satisfied. > > there are still so many kinks being worked out... > no doubt about that! > > but the ever-present fullness running through it > all... somehow sustains me through it all... > > Bill > What you think? Part 1 Pure emptiness, nothing no one neither nor space black hole unfilled empty none absence gone falling falling falling now relate, equate nothing? nothing noted? nothing Is Part 2 Pure Something this that whatever anything, everything, people, men women children, 7 generations the fair sex the opposite sex what is your sexual persuasion? races nationalities backgrounds, flags upbringing, no-win-situations rainbows and rain snow sleet thunder, lightning, hurricanes and lava flows steady as a rock, earthquake thar she blows, does it matter? how hot is too hot, how cold is really really cold? thoughts, good bad indifferent things, horses of a different colour fire and ice, dragons and buterflies flying things, birds planes and carpets huts, hovels and palaces splits ranches bungalows settlements houses of the holy, churches synagogues temples and dedicated rooms buildings, ashrams trains boats and ships of fools mountains oceans seas rivers streams water, lots of water the body is mostly water solar systems constellations this blue-green orb stars planets suns moons comets (on blitzen) asteroids rocks pebbles mountains colour, clouds, coral every flora and fauna imaginable even elephants, kangaroos and manatees viri, bacteria, plankton, amoeba sponges are good for taking baths desert pleateau savannah tundra jungle forest hill and dale cities towns villages empires are built and rise until they fall, ruins runes breathe, a breath of Life fortune tellers, soothsayers, shamans atoms, strings and waves holographic universe singing, dancing eating drinking drunk on love noise sounds love calls war shouts shots that ring out in the night politics thinking tanks intelligencia idiot savants downs syndrome any 'ology' religion or mentality clarity, charity instant messengers, cell phones lap tops and tv commercials newspapers to line bird cages singing telegrams and want ads , crazy idea, eh? every book every web page picture painting word ever taken done, written or conceived conception, birth, life and death touches of God fills up This in IS. ;-) 9/30/05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > someone wrote: > > > > One does give up wondering at some point...perhaps the point at > which > > we see that all of <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > is > > no-thing real. > > ....... > > > > it is that end of wondering that seems crucial > > to me... > > > > it seems that can only end because there is > > some kind of fullness, a silent empty fullness, > > that makes any sense of lack seem superficial > > (which it is)... > > > > this is only sinking in as I write this... > > > > it strikes me that the reason I no longer wonder > > is because of a fullness, and while it is only > > in emptiness... there is nothing THERE... > > somehow there is substance > > > > and it is that substance that leaves me satisfied. > > > > there are still so many kinks being worked out... > > no doubt about that! > > > > but the ever-present fullness running through it > > all... somehow sustains me through it all... > > > > Bill > > > > > What you think? Part 1 > > Pure > emptiness, > nothing > no one > neither > nor > space > black hole > unfilled > empty > none > absence > > gone > > falling falling falling > > now relate, > equate > > nothing? > > nothing noted? > > nothing > > Is > > Part 2 > > Pure > Something > this that > whatever > anything, everything, > people, men women children, > 7 generations > the fair sex the opposite sex > what is your sexual persuasion? > races nationalities backgrounds, flags > upbringing, > no-win-situations > rainbows and rain snow sleet > thunder, lightning, hurricanes and lava flows > steady as a rock, earthquake > thar she blows, > does it matter? how hot is > too hot, how cold is really really cold? > thoughts, good bad indifferent > things, horses of a different colour > fire and ice, > dragons and buterflies > flying things, birds planes and carpets > huts, hovels and palaces > splits ranches bungalows settlements > houses of the holy, > churches synagogues temples and > dedicated rooms buildings, ashrams > trains boats and ships of fools > mountains oceans seas rivers streams > water, lots of water > the body is mostly water > solar systems constellations > this blue-green orb > stars planets suns moons comets > (on blitzen) > asteroids rocks pebbles mountains > colour, clouds, coral > every flora and fauna imaginable > even elephants, kangaroos and manatees > viri, bacteria, plankton, amoeba > sponges are good for taking baths > desert pleateau savannah tundra jungle > forest hill and dale > cities towns villages empires > are built and rise until they fall, > ruins runes > breathe, a breath of Life > fortune tellers, soothsayers, shamans > atoms, strings and waves holographic universe > singing, dancing > eating drinking drunk > on love > noise sounds love calls war shouts > shots that ring out in the night > politics thinking tanks intelligencia > idiot savants downs syndrome > any 'ology' religion or mentality > clarity, charity > instant messengers, cell phones > lap tops and tv commercials > newspapers to line bird cages > singing telegrams and want ads > , > crazy idea, eh? > every book every web page > picture painting word ever taken > done, written or conceived > conception, birth, life and death > touches of God > fills up This > in > > IS. > > > ;-) > > 9/30/05 > but the fullness of the emptiness that I spoke of is more IS than all of the things you mention in Part 2 Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > someone wrote: > > > > > > One does give up wondering at some point...perhaps the point at > > which > > > we see that all of <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > is > > > no-thing real. > > > ....... > > > > > > it is that end of wondering that seems crucial > > > to me... > > > > > > it seems that can only end because there is > > > some kind of fullness, a silent empty fullness, > > > that makes any sense of lack seem superficial > > > (which it is)... > > > > > > this is only sinking in as I write this... > > > > > > it strikes me that the reason I no longer wonder > > > is because of a fullness, and while it is only > > > in emptiness... there is nothing THERE... > > > somehow there is substance > > > > > > and it is that substance that leaves me satisfied. > > > > > > there are still so many kinks being worked out... > > > no doubt about that! > > > > > > but the ever-present fullness running through it > > > all... somehow sustains me through it all... > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > What you think? Part 1 > > > > Pure > > emptiness, > > nothing > > no one > > neither > > nor > > space > > black hole > > unfilled > > empty > > none > > absence > > > > gone > > > > falling falling falling > > > > now relate, > > equate > > > > nothing? > > > > nothing noted? > > > > nothing > > > > Is > > > > Part 2 > > > > Pure > > Something > > this that > > whatever > > anything, everything, > > people, men women children, > > 7 generations > > the fair sex the opposite sex > > what is your sexual persuasion? > > races nationalities backgrounds, flags > > upbringing, > > no-win-situations > > rainbows and rain snow sleet > > thunder, lightning, hurricanes and lava flows > > steady as a rock, earthquake > > thar she blows, > > does it matter? how hot is > > too hot, how cold is really really cold? > > thoughts, good bad indifferent > > things, horses of a different colour > > fire and ice, > > dragons and buterflies > > flying things, birds planes and carpets > > huts, hovels and palaces > > splits ranches bungalows settlements > > houses of the holy, > > churches synagogues temples and > > dedicated rooms buildings, ashrams > > trains boats and ships of fools > > mountains oceans seas rivers streams > > water, lots of water > > the body is mostly water > > solar systems constellations > > this blue-green orb > > stars planets suns moons comets > > (on blitzen) > > asteroids rocks pebbles mountains > > colour, clouds, coral > > every flora and fauna imaginable > > even elephants, kangaroos and manatees > > viri, bacteria, plankton, amoeba > > sponges are good for taking baths > > desert pleateau savannah tundra jungle > > forest hill and dale > > cities towns villages empires > > are built and rise until they fall, > > ruins runes > > breathe, a breath of Life > > fortune tellers, soothsayers, shamans > > atoms, strings and waves holographic universe > > singing, dancing > > eating drinking drunk > > on love > > noise sounds love calls war shouts > > shots that ring out in the night > > politics thinking tanks intelligencia > > idiot savants downs syndrome > > any 'ology' religion or mentality > > clarity, charity > > instant messengers, cell phones > > lap tops and tv commercials > > newspapers to line bird cages > > singing telegrams and want ads > > , > > crazy idea, eh? > > every book every web page > > picture painting word ever taken > > done, written or conceived > > conception, birth, life and death > > touches of God > > fills up This > > in > > > > IS. > > > > > > ;-) > > > > 9/30/05 > > > > but the fullness of the emptiness that > I spoke of is more IS > than all of the things you mention > in Part 2 > > Bill > of course, it IS, I am That You are That ....and That is This ....Is hugs, Ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <pliantheart@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > someone wrote: > > > > > > > > One does give up wondering at some point...perhaps the point > at > > > which > > > > we see that all of > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > is > > > > no-thing real. > > > > ....... > > > > > > > > it is that end of wondering that seems crucial > > > > to me... > > > > > > > > it seems that can only end because there is > > > > some kind of fullness, a silent empty fullness, > > > > that makes any sense of lack seem superficial > > > > (which it is)... > > > > > > > > this is only sinking in as I write this... > > > > > > > > it strikes me that the reason I no longer wonder > > > > is because of a fullness, and while it is only > > > > in emptiness... there is nothing THERE... > > > > somehow there is substance > > > > > > > > and it is that substance that leaves me satisfied. > > > > > > > > there are still so many kinks being worked out... > > > > no doubt about that! > > > > > > > > but the ever-present fullness running through it > > > > all... somehow sustains me through it all... > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you think? Part 1 > > > > > > Pure > > > emptiness, > > > nothing > > > no one > > > neither > > > nor > > > space > > > black hole > > > unfilled > > > empty > > > none > > > absence > > > > > > gone > > > > > > falling falling falling > > > > > > now relate, > > > equate > > > > > > nothing? > > > > > > nothing noted? > > > > > > nothing > > > > > > Is > > > > > > Part 2 > > > > > > Pure > > > Something > > > this that > > > whatever > > > anything, everything, > > > people, men women children, > > > 7 generations > > > the fair sex the opposite sex > > > what is your sexual persuasion? > > > races nationalities backgrounds, flags > > > upbringing, > > > no-win-situations > > > rainbows and rain snow sleet > > > thunder, lightning, hurricanes and lava flows > > > steady as a rock, earthquake > > > thar she blows, > > > does it matter? how hot is > > > too hot, how cold is really really cold? > > > thoughts, good bad indifferent > > > things, horses of a different colour > > > fire and ice, > > > dragons and buterflies > > > flying things, birds planes and carpets > > > huts, hovels and palaces > > > splits ranches bungalows settlements > > > houses of the holy, > > > churches synagogues temples and > > > dedicated rooms buildings, ashrams > > > trains boats and ships of fools > > > mountains oceans seas rivers streams > > > water, lots of water > > > the body is mostly water > > > solar systems constellations > > > this blue-green orb > > > stars planets suns moons comets > > > (on blitzen) > > > asteroids rocks pebbles mountains > > > colour, clouds, coral > > > every flora and fauna imaginable > > > even elephants, kangaroos and manatees > > > viri, bacteria, plankton, amoeba > > > sponges are good for taking baths > > > desert pleateau savannah tundra jungle > > > forest hill and dale > > > cities towns villages empires > > > are built and rise until they fall, > > > ruins runes > > > breathe, a breath of Life > > > fortune tellers, soothsayers, shamans > > > atoms, strings and waves holographic universe > > > singing, dancing > > > eating drinking drunk > > > on love > > > noise sounds love calls war shouts > > > shots that ring out in the night > > > politics thinking tanks intelligencia > > > idiot savants downs syndrome > > > any 'ology' religion or mentality > > > clarity, charity > > > instant messengers, cell phones > > > lap tops and tv commercials > > > newspapers to line bird cages > > > singing telegrams and want ads > > > , > > > crazy idea, eh? > > > every book every web page > > > picture painting word ever taken > > > done, written or conceived > > > conception, birth, life and death > > > touches of God > > > fills up This > > > in > > > > > > IS. > > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > 9/30/05 > > > > > > > but the fullness of the emptiness that > > I spoke of is more IS > > than all of the things you mention > > in Part 2 > > > > Bill > > > > > of course, it IS, > > I am That > You are That > > ...and That is This > ...Is > > > hugs, > Ana > wow... very happy that you get that... I am just now really seeing that it is this Substance that really sustains me that while so-called understandings can swirl around it is this invisible quietly present Substance that has been my instinctive Knowing and until now I haven't been really *conscious* that it is the Substance of the Emptiness that is the Is-ness of what I am Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > someone wrote: > > One does give up wondering at some point...perhaps the point at which > we see that all of <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is > no-thing real. > ....... > > it is that end of wondering that seems crucial > to me... > > it seems that can only end because there is > some kind of fullness, a silent empty fullness, > that makes any sense of lack seem superficial > (which it is)... > > this is only sinking in as I write this... > > it strikes me that the reason I no longer wonder > is because of a fullness, and while it is only > in emptiness... there is nothing THERE... > somehow there is substance > > and it is that substance that leaves me satisfied. > > there are still so many kinks being worked out... > no doubt about that! > > but the ever-present fullness running through it > all... somehow sustains me through it all... > > Bill > This reminds me of a therapy created by a Jocelyn Blouin, in which things are taken to " Beyond Satiation " . It has to do with going beyond the " completion " of all of our issues or things that we have any attention on. If we have attention on something it is not complete. Is your fullness the same as completeness? Or is it a willingness to " have " incompleteness? Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: - snip- > > > > > > > > > > but the fullness of the emptiness that > > > I spoke of is more IS > > > than all of the things you mention > > > in Part 2 > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > of course, it IS, > > > > I am That > > You are That > > > > ...and That is This > > ...Is > > > > > > hugs, > > Ana > > > > wow... very happy that you get that... > > I am just now really seeing > that it is this Substance > that really sustains me There is an esoteric term called " Havingness " . It can be understood as: The willingness to experience a thing or things and the sense of fullness that results. It could also be said that whatever we are unwilling to Have, has us. What we resist has us. Also, a person with a high willingness to have is in better control of his or her life than one who is unwilling to have things and experiences. Bill, is this why " this Substance " you speak of, feels so good? Stu > > that while so-called understandings > can swirl around > it is this invisible > quietly present > Substance > that has been my instinctive > Knowing > > and until now I haven't been > really *conscious* > that it is the Substance > of the Emptiness > that is the Is-ness > of what I am > > > Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > someone wrote: > > > > One does give up wondering at some point...perhaps the point at which > > we see that all of <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is > > no-thing real. > > ....... > > > > it is that end of wondering that seems crucial > > to me... > > > > it seems that can only end because there is > > some kind of fullness, a silent empty fullness, > > that makes any sense of lack seem superficial > > (which it is)... > > > > this is only sinking in as I write this... > > > > it strikes me that the reason I no longer wonder > > is because of a fullness, and while it is only > > in emptiness... there is nothing THERE... > > somehow there is substance > > > > and it is that substance that leaves me satisfied. > > > > there are still so many kinks being worked out... > > no doubt about that! > > > > but the ever-present fullness running through it > > all... somehow sustains me through it all... > > > > Bill > > > > This reminds me of a therapy created by a Jocelyn Blouin, in which > things are taken to " Beyond Satiation " . It has to do with going > beyond the " completion " of all of our issues or things that we have > any attention on. If we have attention on something it is not complete. > > Is your fullness the same as completeness? Or is it a willingness to > " have " incompleteness? > > Stu > Now that is a deep question! Ironically, both. Number one, fullness is inherently the ultimate completeness. That is what I meant by saying that in realization of fullness there is always complete satisfaction. Number two, it is an infinite tolerance for " incompleteness " . Not so much a " willingness " ... but a no-need to move anything " to completeness " because in fullness there is always an inherent completeness (that is so beyond the shallow kind of completeness of phenomenal experience). Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > - snip- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but the fullness of the emptiness that > > > > I spoke of is more IS > > > > than all of the things you mention > > > > in Part 2 > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > of course, it IS, > > > > > > I am That > > > You are That > > > > > > ...and That is This > > > ...Is > > > > > > > > > hugs, > > > Ana > > > > > > > wow... very happy that you get that... > > > > I am just now really seeing > > that it is this Substance > > that really sustains me > > There is an esoteric term called " Havingness " . It can be understood as: > The willingness to experience a thing or things and the sense of > fullness that results. > > It could also be said that whatever we are unwilling to Have, has us. > What we resist has us. I like that... makes a lot of sense > Also, a person with a high willingness to have is in better control of > his or her life than one who is unwilling to have things and experiences. > > Bill, is this why " this Substance " you speak of, feels so good? I'm not so sure about the willingness/unwillingness part, Stu. It doesn't seem to me that willingness has anything to do with it. But it seems like it could just be a matter of semantics (different word preferences)... The " Substance " is on a different dimension than all the " phenomenal " havings/not havings. I've got to run, but will return to this. Bill > Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > - snip- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but the fullness of the emptiness that > > > > > I spoke of is more IS > > > > > than all of the things you mention > > > > > in Part 2 > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > Conceptualization........although it imagines differently......can never see any-thing beyond its own self-referencing mnemonic debris. There is no way for it to escape its own bubble. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > someone wrote: > > > > > > One does give up wondering at some point...perhaps the point at which > > > we see that all of <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is > > > no-thing real. > > > ....... > > > > > > it is that end of wondering that seems crucial > > > to me... > > > > > > it seems that can only end because there is > > > some kind of fullness, a silent empty fullness, > > > that makes any sense of lack seem superficial > > > (which it is)... > > > > > > this is only sinking in as I write this... > > > > > > it strikes me that the reason I no longer wonder > > > is because of a fullness, and while it is only > > > in emptiness... there is nothing THERE... > > > somehow there is substance > > > > > > and it is that substance that leaves me satisfied. > > > > > > there are still so many kinks being worked out... > > > no doubt about that! > > > > > > but the ever-present fullness running through it > > > all... somehow sustains me through it all... > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > This reminds me of a therapy created by a Jocelyn Blouin, in which > > things are taken to " Beyond Satiation " . It has to do with going > > beyond the " completion " of all of our issues or things that we have > > any attention on. If we have attention on something it is not complete. > > > > Is your fullness the same as completeness? Or is it a willingness to > > " have " incompleteness? > > > > Stu > > > > Now that is a deep question! > > Ironically, both. > > Number one, fullness is inherently the ultimate completeness. > That is what I meant by saying that in realization of fullness > there is always complete satisfaction. > > Number two, it is an infinite tolerance for " incompleteness " . > Not so much a " willingness " ... but a no-need to move anything > " to completeness " because in fullness there is always an > inherent completeness (that is so beyond the shallow kind > of completeness of phenomenal experience). > > Bill > Fullness.....even that of a sage......occurs within the phenomenal realm. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > someone wrote: > > > > > > One does give up wondering at some point...perhaps the point at which > > > we see that all of <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is > > > no-thing real. > > > ....... > > > > > > it is that end of wondering that seems crucial > > > to me... > > > > > > it seems that can only end because there is > > > some kind of fullness, a silent empty fullness, > > > that makes any sense of lack seem superficial > > > (which it is)... > > > > > > this is only sinking in as I write this... > > > > > > it strikes me that the reason I no longer wonder > > > is because of a fullness, and while it is only > > > in emptiness... there is nothing THERE... > > > somehow there is substance > > > > > > and it is that substance that leaves me satisfied. > > > > > > there are still so many kinks being worked out... > > > no doubt about that! > > > > > > but the ever-present fullness running through it > > > all... somehow sustains me through it all... > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > This reminds me of a therapy created by a Jocelyn Blouin, in which > > things are taken to " Beyond Satiation " . It has to do with going > > beyond the " completion " of all of our issues or things that we have > > any attention on. If we have attention on something it is not complete. > > > > Is your fullness the same as completeness? Or is it a willingness to > > " have " incompleteness? > > > > Stu > > > > Now that is a deep question! > > Ironically, both. > > Number one, fullness is inherently the ultimate completeness. > That is what I meant by saying that in realization of fullness > there is always complete satisfaction. > > Number two, it is an infinite tolerance for " incompleteness " . > Not so much a " willingness " ... but a no-need to move anything > " to completeness " because in fullness there is always an > inherent completeness (that is so beyond the shallow kind > of completeness of phenomenal experience). > > Bill > Very interesting:-) When I read " I Am That I Am " by Stephen Wolinsky, I actually made myself sick by doing the opposite of what you are describing here. Instead of moving towards " fullness " , I tried to move towards its opposite. Instead of experiencing the fullness of emptiness, I experienced " the incomplete neediness of emptiness " . Big mistake!:-) Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > someone wrote: > > > > > > > > One does give up wondering at some point...perhaps the point at > which > > > > we see that all of <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is > > > > no-thing real. > > > > ....... > > > > > > > > it is that end of wondering that seems crucial > > > > to me... > > > > > > > > it seems that can only end because there is > > > > some kind of fullness, a silent empty fullness, > > > > that makes any sense of lack seem superficial > > > > (which it is)... > > > > > > > > this is only sinking in as I write this... > > > > > > > > it strikes me that the reason I no longer wonder > > > > is because of a fullness, and while it is only > > > > in emptiness... there is nothing THERE... > > > > somehow there is substance > > > > > > > > and it is that substance that leaves me satisfied. > > > > > > > > there are still so many kinks being worked out... > > > > no doubt about that! > > > > > > > > but the ever-present fullness running through it > > > > all... somehow sustains me through it all... > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > This reminds me of a therapy created by a Jocelyn Blouin, in which > > > things are taken to " Beyond Satiation " . It has to do with going > > > beyond the " completion " of all of our issues or things that we have > > > any attention on. If we have attention on something it is not > complete. > > > > > > Is your fullness the same as completeness? Or is it a willingness to > > > " have " incompleteness? > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > Now that is a deep question! > > > > Ironically, both. > > > > Number one, fullness is inherently the ultimate completeness. > > That is what I meant by saying that in realization of fullness > > there is always complete satisfaction. > > > > Number two, it is an infinite tolerance for " incompleteness " . > > Not so much a " willingness " ... but a no-need to move anything > > " to completeness " because in fullness there is always an > > inherent completeness (that is so beyond the shallow kind > > of completeness of phenomenal experience). > > > > Bill > > > > Very interesting:-) > When I read " I Am That I Am " by Stephen Wolinsky, I actually made > myself sick by doing the opposite of what you are describing here. > > Instead of moving towards " fullness " , I tried to move towards its > opposite. Instead of experiencing the fullness of emptiness, I > experienced " the incomplete neediness of emptiness " . > Big mistake!:-) > > Stu > sort of like this??? ;-) Sometimes Some Times by Anna Ruiz Sometimes you get the breath just right caught between open-mouth stammers and sounds that relinquish words spewed on blank pages, blood dripping with insight and hollowed-out blessings made conceivable and believable in the realms made visible, held tight-fisted, unforgiving, danced in the vanity of descending twilight, you remember the night before Christmas and you forget the dreams of a child. Sometimes dragons and silver-furred foxes steal your dreams away and beg the sun to shine when you just know your breaking heart can't take even one more tear, and the fullness of your empty life stares back at you with golden eyes. Fire starts burning away your every desire; you chafe you splinter and shatter against moonlight with the glare of your own purity. There is hardly anyone home any more, and you have shaken your foundation to the level of your arms: you can't hold on to two things at the same time, and the wind knows which way to blow, right through your Soul, now you have fallen to the level of your prayer-poems in that dark night. Absolution does not come easily, and momentum gains no trust; a wicked sneer flashes against the image in the mirror: this cannot really be you, or is it? So you breathe between amnesia and discontent and walk the walk with Silence. An in-between breath escapes like a wounded animal or a nightingale free from her gilded cage or Anna's hummingbird at rest in a red hibiscus, and you tear yourself apart to know the DNA you inherited. Now the songs and prayers of the ages you sing less noteworthily, less hypocritically, nevertheless you have no other songs to sing. You start dreaming indistinct memories of pure water, of drowning in your own sorrows; you notice the blade you have held against your raw red throat is now rusty, and you notice the second to the last breath is the hardest one to let go. 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > someone wrote: > > > > > > > > One does give up wondering at some point...perhaps the point at > which > > > > we see that all of <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is > > > > no-thing real. > > > > ....... > > > > > > > > it is that end of wondering that seems crucial > > > > to me... > > > > > > > > it seems that can only end because there is > > > > some kind of fullness, a silent empty fullness, > > > > that makes any sense of lack seem superficial > > > > (which it is)... > > > > > > > > this is only sinking in as I write this... > > > > > > > > it strikes me that the reason I no longer wonder > > > > is because of a fullness, and while it is only > > > > in emptiness... there is nothing THERE... > > > > somehow there is substance > > > > > > > > and it is that substance that leaves me satisfied. > > > > > > > > there are still so many kinks being worked out... > > > > no doubt about that! > > > > > > > > but the ever-present fullness running through it > > > > all... somehow sustains me through it all... > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > This reminds me of a therapy created by a Jocelyn Blouin, in which > > > things are taken to " Beyond Satiation " . It has to do with going > > > beyond the " completion " of all of our issues or things that we have > > > any attention on. If we have attention on something it is not > complete. > > > > > > Is your fullness the same as completeness? Or is it a willingness to > > > " have " incompleteness? > > > > > > Stu > > > > > > > Now that is a deep question! > > > > Ironically, both. > > > > Number one, fullness is inherently the ultimate completeness. > > That is what I meant by saying that in realization of fullness > > there is always complete satisfaction. > > > > Number two, it is an infinite tolerance for " incompleteness " . > > Not so much a " willingness " ... but a no-need to move anything > > " to completeness " because in fullness there is always an > > inherent completeness (that is so beyond the shallow kind > > of completeness of phenomenal experience). > > > > Bill > > > > Very interesting:-) > When I read " I Am That I Am " by Stephen Wolinsky, I actually made > myself sick by doing the opposite of what you are describing here. > > Instead of moving towards " fullness " , I tried to move towards its > opposite. Instead of experiencing the fullness of emptiness, I > experienced " the incomplete neediness of emptiness " . > Big mistake!:-) > > Stu > A self is imagined that can make mistakes? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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