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RE : words can not express it (Bill)

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Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote:

>

> --- pliantheart <pliantheart a écrit :

>

> > Nisargadatta , OConnor

> > Patricia <gdtige@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > --- pliantheart <pliantheart@> a écrit :

> > >

> > > > > > re:

> > > > > > " and words can not be seeds of

> > blossoming..... "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > anything can be a seed of blossoming.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > you are treating words as a special class of

> >

> > > > > > phenomena. words and the flight of birds,

> > > > > > the sound of thunder... are all just

> > phenomena.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if there is any problem with words, it is in

> > > > > > seeing words as separate from life rather

> > than

> > > > > > just a part of life.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Bill

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> .....................................................

> > > > > the world :orange

> > > > >

> > > > > and then its taste color fragrance texture,

> > > > > stickiness, roundness etc...

> > > > > you call that the same thing?

> > > > > One is a label, the other one is the real

> > stuff

> > > > that

> > > > > you can experience.

> > > > > you can press the orange but how can you ever

> > > > express

> > > > > it....

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > from the perspective of a person they do seem

> > quite

> > > > distinct, don't they?

> > > >

> > > > but all you mention are vibrations...

> > > >

> > > > and are manifestations within Silence.

> > > >

> > > > don't think of words in terms of

> > " abstractions " ...

> > > > but in terms of instances...

> > > > a *particular* experience of some particular

> > > > words.

> > > >

> > > > as an abstraction " orange " is a concept.

> > > > but that isn't real. No one ever experiences

> > > > the concept orange. But you do experience

> > > > the sensations of reading " orange " in a

> > > > particular moment.

> > > >

> > > > if you go into words as something from the

> > > > standpoint of thought... *then* words are

> > > > distinct from all else...

> > > >

> > > > but as sensory experience... they are just

> > > > phenomena like everything else... hearing

> > > > a line of poetry read vs. hearing the same

> > > > line of poetry as if " hummed " for example...

> > > > both are just sensation.

> > > >

> > > > I read your words:

> > > > > and then its taste color fragrance texture,

> > > > > stickiness, roundness etc...

> > > > and those words go " through " as sensation,

> > > > as vibration, as energy patterns.

> > > >

> > > > if you hum something to me then I might

> > > > hum something back. If you say something

> > > > to me I might say something back. If the

> > > > response (in words) JUST FLOWS OUT OF ME

> > > > (and this is key) then it all is

> > > > experienced as just energy going round.

> > > >

> > > > it is when experience is as a mential operation

> > > > that words come to seem very different from

> > > > other phenomena.

> > > >

> > > > in a *particular moment* whatever is experienced

> > > > is as vibrations arising within Silence.

> > > > The origin of those vibrations does not change

> > > > that the experience in the moment is as

> > vibration

> > > > within Silence.

> > > >

> > > > so what I am fundamentally saying is that *if*

> > > > experience is as vibrations arising in Silence

> > > > then " words read " or " words heard " or any other

> > > > *particular experience of words* is as

> > vibrations

> > > > arising and is just phenomena arising in

> > Silence.

> > > >

> > > > that is the whole point of the realization that

> > > > all is just phenomena arising in Silence, as

> > > > " clouds in the coffee " as it were.

> > > >

> > > > and see how what I am saying above can only be

> > > > understood if experience is immediate, direct,

> > > > in the Now... and not a mediated by " mind " ?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Bill

> > >

> > > ok, i see that, i get it,

> > > then you are evoquing a very particular language

> > that

> > > has very little space in this world.

> >

> > don't know what you mean... very little space...

>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> you are evoquing a living state of being in its

> natural expression. I observe a lot more mechanical

> responses than spontaneous ones in this world. Mind is

> the supreme ruler. : therefore I mentionned how little

> space this naturalness has.

 

Ahhh!!!

Thank you so much for clarifying that!

as I had read you incorrectly.

 

Bill

 

> ~~~

> > what I am saying can apply to *any* experience of

> > language...

> >

> > it is talking by " just being " ... just letting it

> > happen

> > it is listening by " just being " ...

> >

> > it is not experiencing as " a person " , and

> > a distinct entity " coping with a world " ...

> >

> > it is dreaming one's life.

> >

> > it is experience as totally organic, as an

> > unfolding whole...

> > and what unfolds is always a surprise...

> >

> > living in such a way is not by a plan according

> > to a purpose...

> >

> > and there is no limitation on language in living

> > in such a way.

> >

> > Bill

> >

> >

> > > Words can be born from thoughts

> > > and yes, they can also be an extension of

> > silence..

> > >

>

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