Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hiding behind Bill ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why don't you call it a cheap shot ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Because.... he is full of it..... LOVE, I mean. > > > > > > > > > > Beware of self-proclaimed lovers, if you scratch > > > > > > > > > > the thin love paint job, the rust of rancor > > will > > > > > show. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grin ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I read that comment about scratching the thin paint > > job > > > > > > > > I thought, " Werner's gonna love this. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please translate. What does the term mean 'scratching the > > thin > > > > > paint > > > > > > > job' ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You didn't understand what Pete meant when he wrote? > > > > > > > > > > Beware of self-proclaimed lovers, if you scratch > > > > > > > > > > the thin love paint job, the rust of rancor > > will > > > > > show. > > > > > > > > > > > > It means when you look below the surface you see something > > else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have seen that, Bill, but because I am not firm in > > American or > > > > > English common parlance I didn't understand your text. > > > > > > > > > > But now tell me why should I love this ? Because I am the guy > > who > > > > > loves looking under the ladies' skirts ? Have you meant that ? > > Or, I > > > > > love demasking people ? Maybe, yes. I started my paintig > > carreer as a > > > > > portraitist and so I was forced to look behind the skin of my > > > > > clients. All my life I tried to look behind the surface and > > later to > > > > > find a way to express it in my paintings. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > you love demasking people, yes that is > > > > what I meant. > > > > > > > > BTW, I've done quite a bit of portraiture > > > > also. I've always sought to express the > > > > " spirit within " when I've done so, which > > > > is a looking beneath the surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are the mask. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > Toomb, > > If you realize the suffering and desperartion behind the smiling > > face, then what is here 'people' ? The suffering, or the smile, or > > both ? > > > > Werner > > > > > > > Identification is suffering. > > > toombaru > Read again my question. I haven't asked you to tell me what suffering is but what 'people' is. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hiding behind Bill ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Why don't you call it a cheap shot ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Because.... he is full of it..... LOVE, I mean. > > > > > > Beware of self-proclaimed lovers, if you scratch > > > > > > the thin love paint job, the rust of rancor will show. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grin ... > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > When I read that comment about scratching the thin paint job > > > > I thought, " Werner's gonna love this. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > Literalists are always paranoid. > > > > > > L > > > ~*~ > > > > > > > What is a 'Literalist' and can you explain why they always are > > paranoid ? > > > > Werner > > > > Well, I thought you'd never ask! > > Literalist, in the most obvious sense, are those who believe that > " God " literally created the world in seven days. They don't know that > " God " is a metaphor, instead, they literally think " He " is a man with > a beard somewhere. In a less obvious sense, a literalist imagines > that if you say you " love, " it means you want to spend the rest of > you life married to whomever you " love. " They can't understand that > someone might be " in love with life, " with everyone. They assume that > " love " means sacrifices of something to someone. A literalist > literally believes that people have just one name, just one identity, > and that a sentence can only mean one thing. They believe that there > can only be one interpretation for any statement. > > Literalists are basically punitive and guilt mongering. They believe > in right and wrong and that the wrong should be punished and the right > rewarded. They're fundamentalists. They're children. Very easily > angered and generally unforgiving. They're very cautious, and assume > that people are going to deceive them in some way or other. > > Literalists are paranoid because, since they believe in right and > wrong, they're always afraid of doing something wrong and always > afraid that they will either be punished for being wrong, or that they > will have to punish someone else for being wrong (which is always a > real drag!). > > They are very attached to their own and others' identity, because it > is precisely identity that is either attacked or rewarded for being > either wrong or right. > > Know what I mean? > > Love Ya for asking! > > ~*~ > Thanks, Sky, for explaining what a Literalist is. I hope I won't forget it because I am afraid I only very rarely will meet that term again. Ok now, in my understanding guilt is the fear to be left alone, to get punished with social isolation. To be isolated is one of our strongest fears and it lures through most of our activities representing more or less our social or tribal idenity. Therefore it makes sense that a literalist also is prone to guilt because he is bound much tighter to that God image then a person who just has a loose relation to that God. But that is valid with all personal connections like with friends, famly, one's job, etc. Dependencies on and attachment to close persons in most cases will cause feelings of guilt when questioned or threatened. And indeed one can see, as you pointed out, a more or less mild paranoia accompanying one's relationships. Be it a person or a God. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <pliantheart@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Pete S > <pedsie5@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hiding behind Bill ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why don't you call it a cheap shot ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Because.... he is full of it..... LOVE, I > mean. > > > > > > > > > > > Beware of self-proclaimed lovers, if you > scratch > > > > > > > > > > > the thin love paint job, the rust of > rancor > > > will > > > > > > show. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grin ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I read that comment about scratching the thin > paint > > > job > > > > > > > > > I thought, " Werner's gonna love this. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please translate. What does the term mean 'scratching > the > > > thin > > > > > > paint > > > > > > > > job' ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You didn't understand what Pete meant when he wrote? > > > > > > > > > > > Beware of self-proclaimed lovers, if you > scratch > > > > > > > > > > > the thin love paint job, the rust of > rancor > > > will > > > > > > show. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It means when you look below the surface you see > something > > > else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have seen that, Bill, but because I am not firm in > > > American or > > > > > > English common parlance I didn't understand your text. > > > > > > > > > > > > But now tell me why should I love this ? Because I am the > guy > > > who > > > > > > loves looking under the ladies' skirts ? Have you meant > that ? > > > Or, I > > > > > > love demasking people ? Maybe, yes. I started my paintig > > > carreer as a > > > > > > portraitist and so I was forced to look behind the skin of > my > > > > > > clients. All my life I tried to look behind the surface and > > > later to > > > > > > find a way to express it in my paintings. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you love demasking people, yes that is > > > > > what I meant. > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I've done quite a bit of portraiture > > > > > also. I've always sought to express the > > > > > " spirit within " when I've done so, which > > > > > is a looking beneath the surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are the mask. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > If you realize the suffering and desperartion behind the smiling > > > face, then what is here 'people' ? The suffering, or the smile, > or > > > both ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > Identification is suffering. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > Read again my question. > > I haven't asked you to tell me what suffering is but what 'people' is. > > Werner > Toombaru is right, people are (not " is " ) suffering. (Alternatively, the ideation or identification, " people, " IS a projection of one's suffering.) Unless, of course, one is not suffering. In which case, there is no projection, no " people " as separate, all is at ease, all is one: " people " is just a wave of delight in a sea of serenity. LxL ~*~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > <pliantheart@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hiding behind Bill ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why don't you call it a cheap shot ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Because.... he is full of it..... LOVE, I mean. > > > > > > > Beware of self-proclaimed lovers, if you scratch > > > > > > > the thin love paint job, the rust of rancor will > show. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grin ... > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > When I read that comment about scratching the thin paint job > > > > > I thought, " Werner's gonna love this. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Literalists are always paranoid. > > > > > > > > L > > > > ~*~ > > > > > > > > > > What is a 'Literalist' and can you explain why they always are > > > paranoid ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > Well, I thought you'd never ask! > > > > Literalist, in the most obvious sense, are those who believe that > > " God " literally created the world in seven days. They don't know > that > > " God " is a metaphor, instead, they literally think " He " is a man > with > > a beard somewhere. In a less obvious sense, a literalist imagines > > that if you say you " love, " it means you want to spend the rest of > > you life married to whomever you " love. " They can't understand that > > someone might be " in love with life, " with everyone. They assume > that > > " love " means sacrifices of something to someone. A literalist > > literally believes that people have just one name, just one > identity, > > and that a sentence can only mean one thing. They believe that > there > > can only be one interpretation for any statement. > > > > Literalists are basically punitive and guilt mongering. They > believe > > in right and wrong and that the wrong should be punished and the > right > > rewarded. They're fundamentalists. They're children. Very easily > > angered and generally unforgiving. They're very cautious, and assume > > that people are going to deceive them in some way or other. > > > > Literalists are paranoid because, since they believe in right and > > wrong, they're always afraid of doing something wrong and always > > afraid that they will either be punished for being wrong, or that > they > > will have to punish someone else for being wrong (which is always a > > real drag!). > > > > They are very attached to their own and others' identity, because it > > is precisely identity that is either attacked or rewarded for being > > either wrong or right. > > > > Know what I mean? > > > > Love Ya for asking! > > > > ~*~ > > > > Thanks, Sky, for explaining what a Literalist is. I hope I won't > forget it because I am afraid I only very rarely will meet that term > again. > > Ok now, in my understanding guilt is the fear to be left alone, to > get punished with social isolation. To be isolated is one of our > strongest fears and it lures through most of our activities > representing more or less our social or tribal idenity. > > Therefore it makes sense that a literalist also is prone to guilt > because he is bound much tighter to that God image then a person who > just has a loose relation to that God. But that is valid with all > personal connections like with friends, famly, one's job, etc. > > Dependencies on and attachment to close persons in most cases will > cause feelings of guilt when questioned or threatened. > > And indeed one can see, as you pointed out, a more or less mild > paranoia accompanying one's relationships. Be it a person or a God. > > Werner > Very nuanced and subtle, I can see how you would enjoy being a sophisticated artist! LxL ~*~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > <wwoehr@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Pete S > > <pedsie5@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hiding behind Bill ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why don't you call it a cheap shot ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Because.... he is full of it..... LOVE, I > > mean. > > > > > > > > > > > > Beware of self-proclaimed lovers, if you > > scratch > > > > > > > > > > > > the thin love paint job, the rust of > > rancor > > > > will > > > > > > > show. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grin ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I read that comment about scratching the thin > > paint > > > > job > > > > > > > > > > I thought, " Werner's gonna love this. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please translate. What does the term mean 'scratching > > the > > > > thin > > > > > > > paint > > > > > > > > > job' ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You didn't understand what Pete meant when he wrote? > > > > > > > > > > > > Beware of self-proclaimed lovers, if you > > scratch > > > > > > > > > > > > the thin love paint job, the rust of > > rancor > > > > will > > > > > > > show. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It means when you look below the surface you see > > something > > > > else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have seen that, Bill, but because I am not firm in > > > > American or > > > > > > > English common parlance I didn't understand your text. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But now tell me why should I love this ? Because I am the > > guy > > > > who > > > > > > > loves looking under the ladies' skirts ? Have you meant > > that ? > > > > Or, I > > > > > > > love demasking people ? Maybe, yes. I started my paintig > > > > carreer as a > > > > > > > portraitist and so I was forced to look behind the skin of > > my > > > > > > > clients. All my life I tried to look behind the surface and > > > > later to > > > > > > > find a way to express it in my paintings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you love demasking people, yes that is > > > > > > what I meant. > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I've done quite a bit of portraiture > > > > > > also. I've always sought to express the > > > > > > " spirit within " when I've done so, which > > > > > > is a looking beneath the surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are the mask. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > If you realize the suffering and desperartion behind the smiling > > > > face, then what is here 'people' ? The suffering, or the smile, > > or > > > > both ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Identification is suffering. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > Read again my question. > > > > I haven't asked you to tell me what suffering is but what 'people' is. > > > > Werner > > > > Toombaru is right, people are (not " is " ) suffering. (Alternatively, > the ideation or identification, " people, " IS a projection of one's > suffering.) > > Unless, of course, one is not suffering. In which case, there is no > projection, no " people " as separate, all is at ease, all is one: > " people " is just a wave of delight in a sea of serenity. > > LxL > ~*~ > Hmm, Sky, That sounds a bit pompous. Is your usual life stile Epicurean ? Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner > Woehr " > > > > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Pete S > > > <pedsie5@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hiding behind Bill ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why don't you call it a cheap shot ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Because.... he is full of it..... LOVE, I > > > mean. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beware of self-proclaimed lovers, if > you > > > scratch > > > > > > > > > > > > > the thin love paint job, the rust of > > > rancor > > > > > will > > > > > > > > show. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grin ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I read that comment about scratching the > thin > > > paint > > > > > job > > > > > > > > > > > I thought, " Werner's gonna love this. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please translate. What does the term > mean 'scratching > > > the > > > > > thin > > > > > > > > paint > > > > > > > > > > job' ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You didn't understand what Pete meant when he wrote? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beware of self-proclaimed lovers, if > you > > > scratch > > > > > > > > > > > > > the thin love paint job, the rust of > > > rancor > > > > > will > > > > > > > > show. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It means when you look below the surface you see > > > something > > > > > else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have seen that, Bill, but because I am not firm > in > > > > > American or > > > > > > > > English common parlance I didn't understand your text. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But now tell me why should I love this ? Because I am > the > > > guy > > > > > who > > > > > > > > loves looking under the ladies' skirts ? Have you meant > > > that ? > > > > > Or, I > > > > > > > > love demasking people ? Maybe, yes. I started my > paintig > > > > > carreer as a > > > > > > > > portraitist and so I was forced to look behind the skin > of > > > my > > > > > > > > clients. All my life I tried to look behind the surface > and > > > > > later to > > > > > > > > find a way to express it in my paintings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you love demasking people, yes that is > > > > > > > what I meant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I've done quite a bit of portraiture > > > > > > > also. I've always sought to express the > > > > > > > " spirit within " when I've done so, which > > > > > > > is a looking beneath the surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are the mask. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > If you realize the suffering and desperartion behind the > smiling > > > > > face, then what is here 'people' ? The suffering, or the > smile, > > > or > > > > > both ? > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Identification is suffering. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read again my question. > > > > > > I haven't asked you to tell me what suffering is but > what 'people' is. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > Toombaru is right, people are (not " is " ) suffering. (Alternatively, > > the ideation or identification, " people, " IS a projection of one's > > suffering.) > > > > Unless, of course, one is not suffering. In which case, there is no > > projection, no " people " as separate, all is at ease, all is one: > > " people " is just a wave of delight in a sea of serenity. > > > > LxL > > ~*~ > > > > Hmm, Sky, > > That sounds a bit pompous. Is your usual life stile Epicurean ? > > Werner > Why does it sound pompous to you? Yes, my usual life style, these days, they may change, who knows?, IS Epicurean. Wouldn't you want yours to be Epicurean, if you could manage it? After all, a good artist is an Epicurean, isn't s/he? Or are you just teasing me, making fun of those who would say what you said, but seriously? (God spare me from seriousity!) ;-)) LxL ~*~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner > > Woehr " > > > > > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Pete S > > > > <pedsie5@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hiding behind Bill ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why don't you call it a cheap shot ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Because.... he is full of it..... LOVE, I > > > > mean. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beware of self-proclaimed lovers, if > > you > > > > scratch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the thin love paint job, the rust of > > > > rancor > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > show. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grin ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I read that comment about scratching the > > thin > > > > paint > > > > > > job > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought, " Werner's gonna love this. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please translate. What does the term > > mean 'scratching > > > > the > > > > > > thin > > > > > > > > > paint > > > > > > > > > > > job' ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You didn't understand what Pete meant when he wrote? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beware of self-proclaimed lovers, if > > you > > > > scratch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the thin love paint job, the rust of > > > > rancor > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > show. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It means when you look below the surface you see > > > > something > > > > > > else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have seen that, Bill, but because I am not firm > > in > > > > > > American or > > > > > > > > > English common parlance I didn't understand your text. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But now tell me why should I love this ? Because I am > > the > > > > guy > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > loves looking under the ladies' skirts ? Have you meant > > > > that ? > > > > > > Or, I > > > > > > > > > love demasking people ? Maybe, yes. I started my > > paintig > > > > > > carreer as a > > > > > > > > > portraitist and so I was forced to look behind the skin > > of > > > > my > > > > > > > > > clients. All my life I tried to look behind the surface > > and > > > > > > later to > > > > > > > > > find a way to express it in my paintings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you love demasking people, yes that is > > > > > > > > what I meant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I've done quite a bit of portraiture > > > > > > > > also. I've always sought to express the > > > > > > > > " spirit within " when I've done so, which > > > > > > > > is a looking beneath the surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are the mask. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > If you realize the suffering and desperartion behind the > > smiling > > > > > > face, then what is here 'people' ? The suffering, or the > > smile, > > > > or > > > > > > both ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Identification is suffering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read again my question. > > > > > > > > I haven't asked you to tell me what suffering is but > > what 'people' is. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Toombaru is right, people are (not " is " ) suffering. (Alternatively, > > > the ideation or identification, " people, " IS a projection of one's > > > suffering.) > > > > > > Unless, of course, one is not suffering. In which case, there is no > > > projection, no " people " as separate, all is at ease, all is one: > > > " people " is just a wave of delight in a sea of serenity. > > > > > > LxL > > > ~*~ > > > > > > > Hmm, Sky, > > > > That sounds a bit pompous. Is your usual life stile Epicurean ? > > > > Werner > > > > Why does it sound pompous to you? Yes, my usual life style, these > days, they may change, who knows?, IS Epicurean. > > Wouldn't you want yours to be Epicurean, if you could manage it? > After all, a good artist is an Epicurean, isn't s/he? > > Or are you just teasing me, making fun of those who would say what you > said, but seriously? (God spare me from seriousity!) > > ;-)) > > LxL > ~*~ > Surely I was teasing you a bit. Nice that you still have a God to save you from seriousity. I am a fierce atheist and so I have to stand my seriousity alone, sniff, sniff. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > > <lastrain@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > > > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner > Woehr " > > > > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " > > > > > > > <pliantheart@> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner > > > Woehr " > > > > > > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Pete S > > > > > <pedsie5@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hiding behind Bill ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why don't you call it a cheap shot ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Because.... he is full of it..... > LOVE, I > > > > > mean. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beware of self-proclaimed lovers, > if > > > you > > > > > scratch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the thin love paint job, the rust > of > > > > > rancor > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > show. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grin ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I read that comment about scratching the > > > thin > > > > > paint > > > > > > > job > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought, " Werner's gonna love this. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please translate. What does the term > > > mean 'scratching > > > > > the > > > > > > > thin > > > > > > > > > > paint > > > > > > > > > > > > job' ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You didn't understand what Pete meant when he > wrote? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beware of self-proclaimed lovers, > if > > > you > > > > > scratch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the thin love paint job, the rust > of > > > > > rancor > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > show. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It means when you look below the surface you see > > > > > something > > > > > > > else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have seen that, Bill, but because I am not > firm > > > in > > > > > > > American or > > > > > > > > > > English common parlance I didn't understand your > text. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But now tell me why should I love this ? Because I > am > > > the > > > > > guy > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > loves looking under the ladies' skirts ? Have you > meant > > > > > that ? > > > > > > > Or, I > > > > > > > > > > love demasking people ? Maybe, yes. I started my > > > paintig > > > > > > > carreer as a > > > > > > > > > > portraitist and so I was forced to look behind the > skin > > > of > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > clients. All my life I tried to look behind the > surface > > > and > > > > > > > later to > > > > > > > > > > find a way to express it in my paintings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you love demasking people, yes that is > > > > > > > > > what I meant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I've done quite a bit of portraiture > > > > > > > > > also. I've always sought to express the > > > > > > > > > " spirit within " when I've done so, which > > > > > > > > > is a looking beneath the surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are the mask. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > > If you realize the suffering and desperartion behind the > > > smiling > > > > > > > face, then what is here 'people' ? The suffering, or the > > > smile, > > > > > or > > > > > > > both ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Identification is suffering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read again my question. > > > > > > > > > > I haven't asked you to tell me what suffering is but > > > what 'people' is. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toombaru is right, people are (not " is " ) suffering. > (Alternatively, > > > > the ideation or identification, " people, " IS a projection of > one's > > > > suffering.) > > > > > > > > Unless, of course, one is not suffering. In which case, there > is no > > > > projection, no " people " as separate, all is at ease, all is one: > > > > " people " is just a wave of delight in a sea of serenity. > > > > > > > > LxL > > > > ~*~ > > > > > > > > > > Hmm, Sky, > > > > > > That sounds a bit pompous. Is your usual life stile Epicurean ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > Why does it sound pompous to you? Yes, my usual life style, these > > days, they may change, who knows?, IS Epicurean. > > > > Wouldn't you want yours to be Epicurean, if you could manage it? > > After all, a good artist is an Epicurean, isn't s/he? > > > > Or are you just teasing me, making fun of those who would say what > you > > said, but seriously? (God spare me from seriousity!) > > > > ;-)) > > > > LxL > > ~*~ > > > > Surely I was teasing you a bit. > > Nice that you still have a God to save you from seriousity. I am a > fierce atheist and so I have to stand my seriousity alone, sniff, > sniff. > > Werner > Thanks for the smile! But why take anything seriously? You probably only do when its raining, right? Or... ;-) LxL ~*~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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