Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Nisargadatta , " brother_beatnik " <beatnik_brother wrote: > > > The online dogfights are illuminating and entertaining. They show > ego dynamics in their full aeronautical splendour. > > However, the key point is that when A reacts to B, is A reacting to > B or is A reacting to his or her perception of B? The distinction is > very subtle. Here's a Taoist story taken from the Lieh Tzu that > illustrates the point: > > The Stolen Axe > > A woodcutter went out one morning to cut some firewood and > discovered that his favourite axe was missing. He couldn't find it > anywhere. Then he noticed his neighbours son standing near the > woodshed. The woodcutter thought, " Aha! That boy must have stolen my > axe. I see how he lurks about the shed, shifting uneasily from foot > to foot, greedy hands stuffed in his pockets, a guilty look on his > face. I can't prove it, but he MUST have stolen my axe. " > > A few days later the woodcutter was surprised and happy to come upon > the axe under a pile of firewood. " I remember now, " he said, " Just > where I'd left it! " > > The next time he saw his neighbour's son, the woodcutter looked > intently at the boy, scrutinising him from head to toe. How odd, he > thought, somehow this boy has lost his guilty look... > > War of the Worlds > > An interesting historical point is the public performance of H. G. > Well's " War of the Worlds " in 1939 from the 20th floor at 485 As far as I remember it was not H.G. Wells himself but Orson Wells who broadcasted an adaption of H.G.'s War of the Worlds. Werner > Madison Avenue. The program was done in documentary-style complete > with newsflashes and sound effects. Some people ignored the opening > credits of the program and took it to be an actual invasion from > Mars. Contemporary newspapers reported mass panic and anxiety, with > people fleeing the area, and others thinking that they could smell > poison gas and see flashes of lightning in the distance. Six million > heard the CBS show; 1.7 million believed it to be true; and 1.2 > million were genuinely frightened...12, 500 newspapers reported the > broadcast and its impact on the public. Hitler cited the panic > as " evidence of the decadence and corrupt condition of democracy " . > > When thought participates in perception > > As the story of the stolen axe illustrates, thought can participate > in perception; it doesn't neutrally report the way things are, as is > commonly understood. The WMD case and the subsequent 2003 Iraq War > are a case in point. A threat does not have to be real for there to > be panic and hysteria and preparations for war... > > In Orwell's " 1984 " , Big Brother and the state media frighten the > public against an unknown enemy and then pass draconian laws > to " protect the public " . The threat may or may not be real, but the > politicians find that the permanent state of emergency and fear > gives them an inexhaustible source of power. The people's demand for > total security means that they end up living in totalitarian state. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Nisargadatta , " brother_beatnik " <beatnik_brother wrote: > > > The online dogfights are illuminating and entertaining. They show > ego dynamics in their full aeronautical splendour. > > However, the key point is that when A reacts to B, is A reacting to > B or is A reacting to his or her perception of B? The distinction is > very subtle. Here's a Taoist story taken from the Lieh Tzu that > illustrates the point: > > The Stolen Axe > > A woodcutter went out one morning to cut some firewood and > discovered that his favourite axe was missing. He couldn't find it > anywhere. Then he noticed his neighbours son standing near the > woodshed. The woodcutter thought, " Aha! That boy must have stolen my > axe. I see how he lurks about the shed, shifting uneasily from foot > to foot, greedy hands stuffed in his pockets, a guilty look on his > face. I can't prove it, but he MUST have stolen my axe. " > > A few days later the woodcutter was surprised and happy to come upon > the axe under a pile of firewood. " I remember now, " he said, " Just > where I'd left it! " > > The next time he saw his neighbour's son, the woodcutter looked > intently at the boy, scrutinising him from head to toe. How odd, he > thought, somehow this boy has lost his guilty look... > > War of the Worlds > > An interesting historical point is the public performance of H. G. > Well's " War of the Worlds " in 1939 from the 20th floor at 485 > Madison Avenue. The program was done in documentary-style complete > with newsflashes and sound effects. Some people ignored the opening > credits of the program and took it to be an actual invasion from > Mars. Contemporary newspapers reported mass panic and anxiety, with > people fleeing the area, and others thinking that they could smell > poison gas and see flashes of lightning in the distance. Six million > heard the CBS show; 1.7 million believed it to be true; and 1.2 > million were genuinely frightened...12, 500 newspapers reported the > broadcast and its impact on the public. Hitler cited the panic > as " evidence of the decadence and corrupt condition of democracy " . > > When thought participates in perception > > As the story of the stolen axe illustrates, thought can participate > in perception; it doesn't neutrally report the way things are, as is > commonly understood. The WMD case and the subsequent 2003 Iraq War > are a case in point. A threat does not have to be real for there to > be panic and hysteria and preparations for war... > > In Orwell's " 1984 " , Big Brother and the state media frighten the > public against an unknown enemy and then pass draconian laws > to " protect the public " . The threat may or may not be real, but the > politicians find that the permanent state of emergency and fear > gives them an inexhaustible source of power. The people's demand for > total security means that they end up living in totalitarian state. > You have very brilliantly illumined the three stages of how thought produces reality. of how perception is followed by action/reaction. When the mind is clear of misinterpretation and fear, can all like minds join in creating an altered reality that is truly free?* Just wondering... YIL, Ana *so far, minds have created more fear and its operating force, conquer and divide, protect and defend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Nisargadatta , " brother_beatnik " <beatnik_brother wrote: > > > The online dogfights are illuminating and entertaining. They show > ego dynamics in their full aeronautical splendour. > > However, the key point is that when A reacts to B, is A reacting to > B or is A reacting to his or her perception of B? The distinction is > very subtle. Here's a Taoist story taken from the Lieh Tzu that > illustrates the point: > > The Stolen Axe > > A woodcutter went out one morning to cut some firewood and > discovered that his favourite axe was missing. He couldn't find it > anywhere. Then he noticed his neighbours son standing near the > woodshed. The woodcutter thought, " Aha! That boy must have stolen my > axe. I see how he lurks about the shed, shifting uneasily from foot > to foot, greedy hands stuffed in his pockets, a guilty look on his > face. I can't prove it, but he MUST have stolen my axe. " > > A few days later the woodcutter was surprised and happy to come upon > the axe under a pile of firewood. " I remember now, " he said, " Just > where I'd left it! " > > The next time he saw his neighbour's son, the woodcutter looked > intently at the boy, scrutinising him from head to toe. How odd, he > thought, somehow this boy has lost his guilty look... > > War of the Worlds > > An interesting historical point is the public performance of H. G. > Well's " War of the Worlds " in 1939 from the 20th floor at 485 > Madison Avenue. The program was done in documentary-style complete > with newsflashes and sound effects. Some people ignored the opening > credits of the program and took it to be an actual invasion from > Mars. Contemporary newspapers reported mass panic and anxiety, with > people fleeing the area, and others thinking that they could smell > poison gas and see flashes of lightning in the distance. Six million > heard the CBS show; 1.7 million believed it to be true; and 1.2 > million were genuinely frightened...12, 500 newspapers reported the > broadcast and its impact on the public. Hitler cited the panic > as " evidence of the decadence and corrupt condition of democracy " . > > When thought participates in perception > > As the story of the stolen axe illustrates, thought can participate > in perception; it doesn't neutrally report the way things are, as is > commonly understood. The WMD case and the subsequent 2003 Iraq War > are a case in point. A threat does not have to be real for there to > be panic and hysteria and preparations for war... > > In Orwell's " 1984 " , Big Brother and the state media frighten the > public against an unknown enemy and then pass draconian laws > to " protect the public " . The threat may or may not be real, but the > politicians find that the permanent state of emergency and fear > gives them an inexhaustible source of power. The people's demand for > total security means that they end up living in totalitarian state. out of sight dude and right on target! gone daddyo......gone are the days of greenwich and haight-asbury and thinking freedom was a freely available commodity if we only knew...... and expressed, and took the bull by the horns......the bull has charged and chagrined those hopes. now the sheep are afraid and fearful of even hope, let alone only fear itself.keeps 'em anxious and hostile and most importantly in the corral of the profitable shepherd bulls..........and the fear is brought to the sheep on Fox News and CNN and sponsored by the spinoffs, the smaller division companies, of the bull shepherds' bigger concerns.....Carlyle and Halliburton and Enron and Texas......'course we all knew it was the Lone Star State.......the sheep gladly eat the fodder of despair at the fast drive through troughs, and send there young to fight the good fight for the beautiful pasture, provided by the shepherds as they eat their lambchops....oh what a wonderful world for those who sup on the fear and the meat of the little lost sheep. .........bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Nisargadatta , " brother_beatnik " <beatnik_brother wrote: > > > The online dogfights are illuminating and entertaining. They show > ego dynamics in their full aeronautical splendour. > > However, the key point is that when A reacts to B, is A reacting to > B or is A reacting to his or her perception of B? The distinction is > very subtle. Here's a Taoist story taken from the Lieh Tzu that > illustrates the point: > > The Stolen Axe > > A woodcutter went out one morning to cut some firewood and > discovered that his favourite axe was missing. He couldn't find it > anywhere. Then he noticed his neighbours son standing near the > woodshed. The woodcutter thought, " Aha! That boy must have stolen my > axe. I see how he lurks about the shed, shifting uneasily from foot > to foot, greedy hands stuffed in his pockets, a guilty look on his > face. I can't prove it, but he MUST have stolen my axe. " > > A few days later the woodcutter was surprised and happy to come upon > the axe under a pile of firewood. " I remember now, " he said, " Just > where I'd left it! " > > The next time he saw his neighbour's son, the woodcutter looked > intently at the boy, scrutinising him from head to toe. How odd, he > thought, somehow this boy has lost his guilty look... > > War of the Worlds > > An interesting historical point is the public performance of H. G. > Well's " War of the Worlds " in 1939 from the 20th floor at 485 > Madison Avenue. The program was done in documentary-style complete > with newsflashes and sound effects. Some people ignored the opening > credits of the program and took it to be an actual invasion from > Mars. Contemporary newspapers reported mass panic and anxiety, with > people fleeing the area, and others thinking that they could smell > poison gas and see flashes of lightning in the distance. Six million > heard the CBS show; 1.7 million believed it to be true; and 1.2 > million were genuinely frightened...12, 500 newspapers reported the > broadcast and its impact on the public. Hitler cited the panic > as " evidence of the decadence and corrupt condition of democracy " . > > When thought participates in perception > > As the story of the stolen axe illustrates, thought can participate > in perception; it doesn't neutrally report the way things are, as is > commonly understood. The WMD case and the subsequent 2003 Iraq War > are a case in point. A threat does not have to be real for there to > be panic and hysteria and preparations for war... > > In Orwell's " 1984 " , Big Brother and the state media frighten the > public against an unknown enemy and then pass draconian laws > to " protect the public " . The threat may or may not be real, but the > politicians find that the permanent state of emergency and fear > gives them an inexhaustible source of power. The people's demand for > total security means that they end up living in totalitarian state. > Very good points! And, I would add, it is actually impossible to tell whether one is engaged in perception or projection, it becomes one or the other in this very moment, this very now. If one's project is ease/love, then it's one thing, if not, then another: Which, again, depends upon that duality, ad infinitum, an infinite regress, except in this very moment of nowness, newness, newness, newness... L Ease ~*~ P.S.: I would add that even the fact that Orson Welles actually intended, so he said, to cause mass hysteria, that the Bush administration and all false flag operations equally so intend, does not diminish the fact of this: whether projection or perception still remains an issue of love/ease vs not: Where there's duality, there's projection/identification. Where there's pure nowness, there's love/ease. Even this can be rendered a projection by the absence of love/ease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " brother_beatnik " > <beatnik_brother@> wrote: > > > > > > The online dogfights are illuminating and entertaining. They show > > ego dynamics in their full aeronautical splendour. > > > > However, the key point is that when A reacts to B, is A reacting > to > > B or is A reacting to his or her perception of B? The distinction > is > > very subtle. Here's a Taoist story taken from the Lieh Tzu that > > illustrates the point: > > > > The Stolen Axe > > > > A woodcutter went out one morning to cut some firewood and > > discovered that his favourite axe was missing. He couldn't find it > > anywhere. Then he noticed his neighbours son standing near the > > woodshed. The woodcutter thought, " Aha! That boy must have stolen > my > > axe. I see how he lurks about the shed, shifting uneasily from > foot > > to foot, greedy hands stuffed in his pockets, a guilty look on his > > face. I can't prove it, but he MUST have stolen my axe. " > > > > A few days later the woodcutter was surprised and happy to come > upon > > the axe under a pile of firewood. " I remember now, " he said, " Just > > where I'd left it! " > > > > The next time he saw his neighbour's son, the woodcutter looked > > intently at the boy, scrutinising him from head to toe. How odd, > he > > thought, somehow this boy has lost his guilty look... > > > > War of the Worlds > > > > An interesting historical point is the public performance of H. G. > > Well's " War of the Worlds " in 1939 from the 20th floor at 485 > > Madison Avenue. The program was done in documentary-style complete > > with newsflashes and sound effects. Some people ignored the > opening > > credits of the program and took it to be an actual invasion from > > Mars. Contemporary newspapers reported mass panic and anxiety, > with > > people fleeing the area, and others thinking that they could smell > > poison gas and see flashes of lightning in the distance. Six > million > > heard the CBS show; 1.7 million believed it to be true; and 1.2 > > million were genuinely frightened...12, 500 newspapers reported > the > > broadcast and its impact on the public. Hitler cited the panic > > as " evidence of the decadence and corrupt condition of democracy " . > > > > When thought participates in perception > > > > As the story of the stolen axe illustrates, thought can > participate > > in perception; it doesn't neutrally report the way things are, as > is > > commonly understood. The WMD case and the subsequent 2003 Iraq War > > are a case in point. A threat does not have to be real for there > to > > be panic and hysteria and preparations for war... > > > > In Orwell's " 1984 " , Big Brother and the state media frighten the > > public against an unknown enemy and then pass draconian laws > > to " protect the public " . The threat may or may not be real, but > the > > politicians find that the permanent state of emergency and fear > > gives them an inexhaustible source of power. The people's demand > for > > total security means that they end up living in totalitarian state. > > > > > > > You have very brilliantly illumined the three stages of how thought > produces reality. of how perception is followed by action/reaction. > > When the mind is clear of misinterpretation and fear, can all like > minds join in creating an altered reality that is truly free?* > > Just wondering... > > YIL, > Ana > > > *so far, minds have created more fear and its operating force, > conquer and divide, protect and defend. > Come on, Ana, you of all people should know that that's just a projection! In fear, all is fear, in love all is love! LxL ~*~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " brother_beatnik " > <beatnik_brother@> wrote: > > > > > > The online dogfights are illuminating and entertaining. They show > > ego dynamics in their full aeronautical splendour. > > > > However, the key point is that when A reacts to B, is A reacting to > > B or is A reacting to his or her perception of B? The distinction > is > > very subtle. Here's a Taoist story taken from the Lieh Tzu that > > illustrates the point: > > > > The Stolen Axe > > > > A woodcutter went out one morning to cut some firewood and > > discovered that his favourite axe was missing. He couldn't find it > > anywhere. Then he noticed his neighbours son standing near the > > woodshed. The woodcutter thought, " Aha! That boy must have stolen > my > > axe. I see how he lurks about the shed, shifting uneasily from foot > > to foot, greedy hands stuffed in his pockets, a guilty look on his > > face. I can't prove it, but he MUST have stolen my axe. " > > > > A few days later the woodcutter was surprised and happy to come > upon > > the axe under a pile of firewood. " I remember now, " he said, " Just > > where I'd left it! " > > > > The next time he saw his neighbour's son, the woodcutter looked > > intently at the boy, scrutinising him from head to toe. How odd, he > > thought, somehow this boy has lost his guilty look... > > > > War of the Worlds > > > > An interesting historical point is the public performance of H. G. > > Well's " War of the Worlds " in 1939 from the 20th floor at 485 > > > As far as I remember it was not H.G. Wells himself but Orson Wells > who broadcasted an adaption of H.G.'s War of the Worlds. > > Werner > > > Madison Avenue. The program was done in documentary-style complete > > with newsflashes and sound effects. Some people ignored the opening > > credits of the program and took it to be an actual invasion from > > Mars. Contemporary newspapers reported mass panic and anxiety, with > > people fleeing the area, and others thinking that they could smell > > poison gas and see flashes of lightning in the distance. Six > million > > heard the CBS show; 1.7 million believed it to be true; and 1.2 > > million were genuinely frightened...12, 500 newspapers reported the > > broadcast and its impact on the public. Hitler cited the panic > > as " evidence of the decadence and corrupt condition of democracy " . > > > > When thought participates in perception > > > > As the story of the stolen axe illustrates, thought can participate > > in perception; it doesn't neutrally report the way things are, as > is > > commonly understood. The WMD case and the subsequent 2003 Iraq War > > are a case in point. A threat does not have to be real for there to > > be panic and hysteria and preparations for war... > > > > In Orwell's " 1984 " , Big Brother and the state media frighten the > > public against an unknown enemy and then pass draconian laws > > to " protect the public " . The threat may or may not be real, but the > > politicians find that the permanent state of emergency and fear > > gives them an inexhaustible source of power. The people's demand > for > > total security means that they end up living in totalitarian state. > > > Werner, I applaud your efforts at mastering American. But if you read the sentence carefully, you'll see that what you are saying and what you are commenting on, do not contradict each other: It is not written that H.G. Wells did the broadcasting. Here, again, we have a case of perception vs projection, no? LxL ~*~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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