Guest guest Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Attention is noumenon. Noumenon is attention. Attention is movement that writes And its ink is the light of experience. Attention writes in dazzling color Vivid fluence Bright wonder Feeding on its own rapturous display. Attention is not the display but rather the " hidden hand " that moves the puppet show. Attenion is noumenon. Noumenon is attention. Bill (3-05) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Bill, Attention is noumenon ? Wow ! You seem to know the noumenon to make such statemet. Werner Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > > > Attention is noumenon. > Noumenon is attention. > > Attention is movement that writes > And its ink is the light of experience. > > Attention writes in dazzling color > Vivid fluence > Bright wonder > Feeding on its own rapturous display. > > Attention is not the display > but rather the " hidden hand " > that moves the puppet show. > > Attenion is noumenon. > Noumenon is attention. > > > > Bill > (3-05) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Bill, > > Attention is noumenon ? > > Wow ! You seem to know the noumenon to make such statemet. > > Werner Call it a conjecture, Werner. But if attention is truly what shapes experience, if it is the " carving knife " in the " fluid ice of consciousness " (I'm being metaphorical, hope you get what I mean), then attention is effectively noumenon, is it not? Bill > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Attention is noumenon. > > Noumenon is attention. > > > > Attention is movement that writes > > And its ink is the light of experience. > > > > Attention writes in dazzling color > > Vivid fluence > > Bright wonder > > Feeding on its own rapturous display. > > > > Attention is not the display > > but rather the " hidden hand " > > that moves the puppet show. > > > > Attenion is noumenon. > > Noumenon is attention. > > > > > > > > Bill > > (3-05) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > Attention is noumenon ? > > > > Wow ! You seem to know the noumenon to make such statemet. > > > > Werner > > Call it a conjecture, Werner. > But if attention is truly what shapes > experience, if it is the " carving knife " > in the " fluid ice of consciousness " > (I'm being metaphorical, hope you get > what I mean), then attention is > effectively noumenon, is it not? > > Bill > Oops, metaphorical ? What is that ? Is it using an example to explain what cannot get explained ? Ok, I have no need for metaphors, I cannot follow you in either case. Why don't you just forget noumenon and leave it alone ? Don't misunderstand me Bil. I like all you posts, but most of them I don't understand Werner > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Attention is noumenon. > > > Noumenon is attention. > > > > > > Attention is movement that writes > > > And its ink is the light of experience. > > > > > > Attention writes in dazzling color > > > Vivid fluence > > > Bright wonder > > > Feeding on its own rapturous display. > > > > > > Attention is not the display > > > but rather the " hidden hand " > > > that moves the puppet show. > > > > > > Attenion is noumenon. > > > Noumenon is attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > (3-05) > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > Attention is noumenon ? > > > > > > Wow ! You seem to know the noumenon to make such statemet. > > > > > > Werner > > > > Call it a conjecture, Werner. > > But if attention is truly what shapes > > experience, if it is the " carving knife " > > in the " fluid ice of consciousness " > > (I'm being metaphorical, hope you get > > what I mean), then attention is > > effectively noumenon, is it not? > > > > Bill > > > > Oops, metaphorical ? What is that ? Is it using an example to explain > what cannot get explained ? > > Ok, I have no need for metaphors, I cannot follow you in either case. > Why don't you just forget noumenon and leave it alone ? > > Don't misunderstand me Bil. I like all you posts, but most of them I > don't understand > > Werner > it happen that the One writer....and the One reader.... don't understand each.... maybe therefore they are reading and writing and misunderstanding and trying to explain....and.... until peace let them ....be One.... without words Marc > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Attention is noumenon. > > > > Noumenon is attention. > > > > > > > > Attention is movement that writes > > > > And its ink is the light of experience. > > > > > > > > Attention writes in dazzling color > > > > Vivid fluence > > > > Bright wonder > > > > Feeding on its own rapturous display. > > > > > > > > Attention is not the display > > > > but rather the " hidden hand " > > > > that moves the puppet show. > > > > > > > > Attenion is noumenon. > > > > Noumenon is attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > (3-05) > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > Attention is noumenon ? > > > > > > > > Wow ! You seem to know the noumenon to make such statemet. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > Call it a conjecture, Werner. > > > But if attention is truly what shapes > > > experience, if it is the " carving knife " > > > in the " fluid ice of consciousness " > > > (I'm being metaphorical, hope you get > > > what I mean), then attention is > > > effectively noumenon, is it not? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > Oops, metaphorical ? What is that ? Is it using an example to > explain > > what cannot get explained ? > > > > Ok, I have no need for metaphors, I cannot follow you in either > case. > > Why don't you just forget noumenon and leave it alone ? > > > > Don't misunderstand me Bil. I like all you posts, but most of them > I > > don't understand > > > > Werner > > > > > it happen that the One writer....and the One reader.... > don't understand each.... > > maybe therefore they are reading and writing and misunderstanding and > trying to explain....and.... > > until peace let them ....be One.... > > without words > > > > Marc the true One can do its thing with or without words, Marc. and don't assume that because communication has not been completely successful that there is: a) misunderstanding b) lack of peace true peace can move through the most complex quandaries and quagmires of circumstance unscathed. confusion is always on the surface. but peace goes below that... all the way down [hi toomb!] Bill Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > Attention is noumenon ? > > > > > > > > > > Wow ! You seem to know the noumenon to make such statemet. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > Call it a conjecture, Werner. > > > > But if attention is truly what shapes > > > > experience, if it is the " carving knife " > > > > in the " fluid ice of consciousness " > > > > (I'm being metaphorical, hope you get > > > > what I mean), then attention is > > > > effectively noumenon, is it not? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > Oops, metaphorical ? What is that ? Is it using an example to > > explain > > > what cannot get explained ? > > > > > > Ok, I have no need for metaphors, I cannot follow you in either > > case. > > > Why don't you just forget noumenon and leave it alone ? > > > > > > Don't misunderstand me Bil. I like all you posts, but most of > them > > I > > > don't understand > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > it happen that the One writer....and the One reader.... > > don't understand each.... > > > > maybe therefore they are reading and writing and misunderstanding > and > > trying to explain....and.... > > > > until peace let them ....be One.... > > > > without words > > > > > > > > Marc > > the true One can do its thing > with or without words, Marc. the true One....is behind understanding of mind and intellect.... so it make not much sense to speculate what the true One can do.... > > and don't assume that because > communication has not been completely > successful that there is: > a) misunderstanding > b) lack of peace i don't assume anything here in this discussion between Werner and you > > true peace can move through the > most complex quandaries and quagmires > of circumstance unscathed. true peace has absolutly nothing in common with complexity....yes > > confusion is always on the surface. confusion is of mind/complex > > but peace goes below that... all the way down [hi toomb!] > yes.... (hi nobody) Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > > > Attention is noumenon. > Noumenon is attention. > > Attention is movement that writes > And its ink is the light of experience. > > Attention writes in dazzling color > Vivid fluence > Bright wonder > Feeding on its own rapturous display. > > Attention is not the display > but rather the " hidden hand " > that moves the puppet show. > > Attenion is noumenon. > Noumenon is attention. > > > > Bill > (3-05) > I wonder if this story is saying something similar to what you wrote above? Stuart ------ Cherokee Wisdom An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. " A fight is going on inside me, " he said to the boy. " It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil. He is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego. The other is good. He is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. This same fight is going on inside you, and inside every other person, too. " The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, " Which wolf will win? " The old Cherokee replied simply, " The one you feed. " ----------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Attention is noumenon. > > Noumenon is attention. > > > > Attention is movement that writes > > And its ink is the light of experience. > > > > Attention writes in dazzling color > > Vivid fluence > > Bright wonder > > Feeding on its own rapturous display. > > > > Attention is not the display > > but rather the " hidden hand " > > that moves the puppet show. > > > > Attenion is noumenon. > > Noumenon is attention. > > > > > > > > Bill > > (3-05) > > > > I wonder if this story is saying something similar to what you wrote > above? > Stuart > ------ > Cherokee Wisdom > > An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. > > " A fight is going on inside me, " he said to the boy. > > " It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. > > One is evil. He is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, > > arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, > > lies, false pride, superiority, and ego. > > The other is good. He is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, > > humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, > > truth, compassion, and faith. > > This same fight is going on inside you, > > and inside every other person, too. " > > The grandson thought about it for a minute > > and then asked his grandfather, > > " Which wolf will win? " > > The old Cherokee replied simply, > > " The one you feed. " > > > ----------------- > And that implies a feeding entity endnowed with insight, responsibility and free will. But it doesn't exist. The entity is both wolves. J.W.v. Goethe wrote when he was about 80: " That I didn't become a criminal wasn't because of my character but just because of a benevolent fate " . Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn wrote: > > " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Attention is noumenon. > > Noumenon is attention. > > > > Attention is movement that writes > > And its ink is the light of experience. > > > > Attention writes in dazzling color > > Vivid fluence > > Bright wonder > > Feeding on its own rapturous display. > > > > Attention is not the display > > but rather the " hidden hand " > > that moves the puppet show. > > > > Attenion is noumenon. > > Noumenon is attention. > > > > > > > > Bill > > (3-05) > > > > I wonder if this story is saying something similar to what you wrote > above? > Stuart > ------ > Cherokee Wisdom > > An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. > > " A fight is going on inside me, " he said to the boy. > > " It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. > > One is evil. He is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, > > arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, > > lies, false pride, superiority, and ego. > > The other is good. He is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, > > humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, > > truth, compassion, and faith. > > This same fight is going on inside you, > > and inside every other person, too. " > > The grandson thought about it for a minute > > and then asked his grandfather, > > " Which wolf will win? " > > The old Cherokee replied simply, > > " The one you feed. " > > > ----------------- > The phrase that comes to mind: " What you are is what you get! " The Cherokee story emphasizes choice in a way that my poem does not. But very curious comparison you make Stu! They are not the same, but there is a common element is how I would put it. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " stuartkfmn " <stuartkfmn@> > wrote: > > > > " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Attention is noumenon. > > > Noumenon is attention. > > > > > > Attention is movement that writes > > > And its ink is the light of experience. > > > > > > Attention writes in dazzling color > > > Vivid fluence > > > Bright wonder > > > Feeding on its own rapturous display. > > > > > > Attention is not the display > > > but rather the " hidden hand " > > > that moves the puppet show. > > > > > > Attenion is noumenon. > > > Noumenon is attention. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > (3-05) > > > > > > > I wonder if this story is saying something similar to what you wrote > > above? > > Stuart > > ------ > > Cherokee Wisdom > > > > An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. > > > > " A fight is going on inside me, " he said to the boy. > > > > " It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. > > > > One is evil. He is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, > > > > arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, > > > > lies, false pride, superiority, and ego. > > > > The other is good. He is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, > > > > humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, > > > > truth, compassion, and faith. > > > > This same fight is going on inside you, > > > > and inside every other person, too. " > > > > The grandson thought about it for a minute > > > > and then asked his grandfather, > > > > " Which wolf will win? " > > > > The old Cherokee replied simply, > > > > " The one you feed. " > > > > > > ----------------- > > > > And that implies a feeding entity endnowed with insight, > responsibility and free will. But it doesn't exist. The entity is > both wolves. > > J.W.v. Goethe wrote when he was about 80: > > " That I didn't become a criminal wasn't because of my character but > just because of a benevolent fate " . > > Werner > To me I see only the old man as the feeding entity, he is, in a polar way, both wolves . He is what he has his attention fixated on. What do you think Goethe meant by " fate " ? Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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