Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 I am interested in hearing your thoughts on the matter of free will and destiny. Here are my " current " thoughts on this subject. Destiny is the law of nature like... Sun will die in X billion years, earth will rotate around sun in X days, there will be night in USA after X hours, from rose seed will grow rose plant, fire is hot and can burn skin, if you indulge in a thought, it will come back, if you stay neutral to a thought, it will decrease in frequency... Free will is the " number of choices " that the " nature " gives you. For each specy and for each incarnation these choices are limited and again work according to natural laws like... Thoughts that are 'previously stored' will recycle and come to you in many forms - you can believe them or you can question them. You can act on them or just watch them. In order to make a choice, you will need to present aand fully conscious. If you are NOT present, the 'choice of least resistance' [usually the 'habitual' choice] will get automatically acted on. And, whichever choice you pick - its consequency will be determined by the destiny [pre-defined natural laws]. Weed whose seed are present in your graden will grow into a plant - you can cut it, uproot it or let it grow. And, whichever choice you pick - its consequency will be determined by the destiny [pre-defined natural laws]. AS I see, free will is the ability of fully consciouness to choose from the set of choices that the nature presents it. What you think? I am very interested in reading your thoughts on the matter. Greetings, ac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > I am interested in hearing your thoughts > on the matter of free will and destiny. > > Here are my " current " thoughts on this > subject. > > > Destiny is the law of nature like... > > Sun will die in X billion years, > earth will rotate around sun in X days, > there will be night in USA after X hours, > from rose seed will grow rose plant, > fire is hot and can burn skin, > if you indulge in a thought, it will come > back, if you stay neutral to a thought, it > will decrease in frequency... > > > Free will is the " number of choices " > that the " nature " gives you. For > each specy and for each incarnation these > choices are limited and again work > according to natural laws like... > > Thoughts that are 'previously stored' > will recycle and come to you in many > forms - you can believe them or you > can question them. You can act on them > or just watch them. In order to make a > choice, you will need to present aand > fully conscious. If you are NOT present, > the 'choice of least resistance' [usually > the 'habitual' choice] will get automatically > acted on. And, whichever > choice you pick - its consequency will > be determined by the destiny [pre-defined > natural laws]. > > Weed whose seed are present in your > graden will grow into a plant - you > can cut it, uproot it or let it grow. > And, whichever choice you pick - its > consequency will be determined by the > destiny [pre-defined natural laws]. > > > AS I see, free will is the ability > of fully consciouness to choose > from the set of choices that the > nature presents it. > > > > What you think? > > I am very interested in reading your > thoughts on the matter. > > Greetings, > ac. > The 'problem' lies within the concept itself. The concept 'free will' or choice arises out of the assumption that there is not only such a thing as choice but also assumes there is an entity to whom it could apply. All this speculation occurs within the assumption of linear time. A salmon, returning to the waters of its birth to spawn, will make innumerable choices as it swims upstream based on the chemical composition of the water. It will choose a place to make excavate the sand.....It will choose a mate. Choice occurs but it is not the salmon that chooses. Choice occurs.....but there is no chooser. Likewise the 'choices' that man likes to believe that he makes are subject to the infintite interrelated influence of everything that preceded them. Does that mean that destiny applies to all events? No. There are no separate, isolated events. In this context......the term 'choice', 'free will' and destiny become meaningless. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > I am interested in hearing your thoughts > > on the matter of free will and destiny. > > > > Here are my " current " thoughts on this > > subject. > > > > > > Destiny is the law of nature like... > > > > Sun will die in X billion years, > > earth will rotate around sun in X days, > > there will be night in USA after X hours, > > from rose seed will grow rose plant, > > fire is hot and can burn skin, > > if you indulge in a thought, it will come > > back, if you stay neutral to a thought, it > > will decrease in frequency... > > > > > > Free will is the " number of choices " > > that the " nature " gives you. For > > each specy and for each incarnation these > > choices are limited and again work > > according to natural laws like... > > > > Thoughts that are 'previously stored' > > will recycle and come to you in many > > forms - you can believe them or you > > can question them. You can act on them > > or just watch them. In order to make a > > choice, you will need to present aand > > fully conscious. If you are NOT present, > > the 'choice of least resistance' [usually > > the 'habitual' choice] will get automatically > > acted on. And, whichever > > choice you pick - its consequency will > > be determined by the destiny [pre-defined > > natural laws]. > > > > Weed whose seed are present in your > > graden will grow into a plant - you > > can cut it, uproot it or let it grow. > > And, whichever choice you pick - its > > consequency will be determined by the > > destiny [pre-defined natural laws]. > > > > > > AS I see, free will is the ability > > of fully consciouness to choose > > from the set of choices that the > > nature presents it. > > > > > > > > What you think? > > > > I am very interested in reading your > > thoughts on the matter. > > > > Greetings, > > ac. > > > > > > > The 'problem' lies within the concept itself. > > The concept 'free will' or choice arises out of the assumption that > there is not only such a thing as choice but also assumes there is an > entity to whom it could apply. > > All this speculation occurs within the assumption of linear time. > > A salmon, returning to the waters of its birth to spawn, will make > innumerable choices as it swims upstream based on the chemical > composition of the water. It will choose a place to make excavate the > sand.....It will choose a mate. > > > Choice occurs but it is not the salmon that chooses. > > Choice occurs.....but there is no chooser. > > Likewise the 'choices' that man likes to believe that he makes are > subject to the infintite interrelated influence of everything that > preceded them. > > Does that mean that destiny applies to all events? > > No. > > There are no separate, isolated events. > > > > > In this context......the term 'choice', 'free will' and destiny become > meaningless. > > > toombaru > were your parents a choiceless choice? are you? your children? your grandchildren? as for me and mine? there is only the ever-present universal choice to BE, or not to Be, that is the question and the universal answer is Yes. now the individual (in divided dual) choice remains between what is and what is not yet, the ever-present co-creative principle with Universality. in finality the choice to be you and the choice to be me was never ours. It became ours--when we accepted the call to Be. relatively speaking that is;-) YIL, Ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > I am interested in hearing your thoughts > > on the matter of free will and destiny. > > > > Here are my " current " thoughts on this > > subject. > > > > > > Destiny is the law of nature like... > > > > Sun will die in X billion years, > > earth will rotate around sun in X days, > > there will be night in USA after X hours, > > from rose seed will grow rose plant, > > fire is hot and can burn skin, > > if you indulge in a thought, it will come > > back, if you stay neutral to a thought, it > > will decrease in frequency... > > > > > > Free will is the " number of choices " > > that the " nature " gives you. For > > each specy and for each incarnation these > > choices are limited and again work > > according to natural laws like... > > > > Thoughts that are 'previously stored' > > will recycle and come to you in many > > forms - you can believe them or you > > can question them. You can act on them > > or just watch them. In order to make a > > choice, you will need to present aand > > fully conscious. If you are NOT present, > > the 'choice of least resistance' [usually > > the 'habitual' choice] will get automatically > > acted on. And, whichever > > choice you pick - its consequency will > > be determined by the destiny [pre-defined > > natural laws]. > > > > Weed whose seed are present in your > > graden will grow into a plant - you > > can cut it, uproot it or let it grow. > > And, whichever choice you pick - its > > consequency will be determined by the > > destiny [pre-defined natural laws]. > > > > > > AS I see, free will is the ability > > of fully consciouness to choose > > from the set of choices that the > > nature presents it. > > > > > > > > What you think? > > > > I am very interested in reading your > > thoughts on the matter. > > > > Greetings, > > ac. > > > > > > > The 'problem' lies within the concept itself. > > The concept 'free will' or choice arises out of the assumption that > there is not only such a thing as choice but also assumes there is an > entity to whom it could apply. > > All this speculation occurs within the assumption of linear time. > > A salmon, returning to the waters of its birth to spawn, will make > innumerable choices as it swims upstream based on the chemical > composition of the water. It will choose a place to make excavate the > sand.....It will choose a mate. > > > Choice occurs but it is not the salmon that chooses. > > Choice occurs.....but there is no chooser. > > Likewise the 'choices' that man likes to believe that he makes are > subject to the infintite interrelated influence of everything that > preceded them. > > Does that mean that destiny applies to all events? > > No. > > There are no separate, isolated events. > > > > > In this context......the term 'choice', 'free will' and destiny become > meaningless. > > > toombaru > what do you like sir...a piece of banana...or a piece of shit... I see it like this...dont make choosing into a problem... go with the banana if you like bananas go with both if there is no choice go with none if youre an ascet only give choosing between objects its right place and nothing will bother you... again...choice...is not to be made an problem be free....and walk wherever you like...its your place... ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > I am interested in hearing your thoughts > > > on the matter of free will and destiny. > > > > > > Here are my " current " thoughts on this > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > Destiny is the law of nature like... > > > > > > Sun will die in X billion years, > > > earth will rotate around sun in X days, > > > there will be night in USA after X hours, > > > from rose seed will grow rose plant, > > > fire is hot and can burn skin, > > > if you indulge in a thought, it will come > > > back, if you stay neutral to a thought, it > > > will decrease in frequency... > > > > > > > > > Free will is the " number of choices " > > > that the " nature " gives you. For > > > each specy and for each incarnation these > > > choices are limited and again work > > > according to natural laws like... > > > > > > Thoughts that are 'previously stored' > > > will recycle and come to you in many > > > forms - you can believe them or you > > > can question them. You can act on them > > > or just watch them. In order to make a > > > choice, you will need to present aand > > > fully conscious. If you are NOT present, > > > the 'choice of least resistance' [usually > > > the 'habitual' choice] will get automatically > > > acted on. And, whichever > > > choice you pick - its consequency will > > > be determined by the destiny [pre-defined > > > natural laws]. > > > > > > Weed whose seed are present in your > > > graden will grow into a plant - you > > > can cut it, uproot it or let it grow. > > > And, whichever choice you pick - its > > > consequency will be determined by the > > > destiny [pre-defined natural laws]. > > > > > > > > > AS I see, free will is the ability > > > of fully consciouness to choose > > > from the set of choices that the > > > nature presents it. > > > > > > > > > > > > What you think? > > > > > > I am very interested in reading your > > > thoughts on the matter. > > > > > > Greetings, > > > ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 'problem' lies within the concept itself. > > > > The concept 'free will' or choice arises out of the assumption that > > there is not only such a thing as choice but also assumes there is > an > > entity to whom it could apply. > > > > All this speculation occurs within the assumption of linear time. > > > > A salmon, returning to the waters of its birth to spawn, will make > > innumerable choices as it swims upstream based on the chemical > > composition of the water. It will choose a place to make excavate > the > > sand.....It will choose a mate. > > > > > > Choice occurs but it is not the salmon that chooses. > > > > Choice occurs.....but there is no chooser. > > > > Likewise the 'choices' that man likes to believe that he makes are > > subject to the infintite interrelated influence of everything that > > preceded them. > > > > Does that mean that destiny applies to all events? > > > > No. > > > > There are no separate, isolated events. > > > > > > > > > > In this context......the term 'choice', 'free will' and destiny > become > > meaningless. > > > > > > toombaru > > > what do you like sir...a piece of banana...or a piece of shit... > I see it like this...dont make choosing into a problem... > go with the banana if you like bananas > go with both if there is no choice > go with none if youre an ascet > only give choosing between objects its right place > and nothing will bother you... > again...choice...is not to be made an problem > be free....and walk wherever you like...its your place... > ...iietsa > Bravo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > I am interested in hearing your thoughts > > > on the matter of free will and destiny. > > > > > > Here are my " current " thoughts on this > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > Destiny is the law of nature like... > > > > > > Sun will die in X billion years, > > > earth will rotate around sun in X days, > > > there will be night in USA after X hours, > > > from rose seed will grow rose plant, > > > fire is hot and can burn skin, > > > if you indulge in a thought, it will come > > > back, if you stay neutral to a thought, it > > > will decrease in frequency... > > > > > > > > > Free will is the " number of choices " > > > that the " nature " gives you. For > > > each specy and for each incarnation these > > > choices are limited and again work > > > according to natural laws like... > > > > > > Thoughts that are 'previously stored' > > > will recycle and come to you in many > > > forms - you can believe them or you > > > can question them. You can act on them > > > or just watch them. In order to make a > > > choice, you will need to present aand > > > fully conscious. If you are NOT present, > > > the 'choice of least resistance' [usually > > > the 'habitual' choice] will get automatically > > > acted on. And, whichever > > > choice you pick - its consequency will > > > be determined by the destiny [pre-defined > > > natural laws]. > > > > > > Weed whose seed are present in your > > > graden will grow into a plant - you > > > can cut it, uproot it or let it grow. > > > And, whichever choice you pick - its > > > consequency will be determined by the > > > destiny [pre-defined natural laws]. > > > > > > > > > AS I see, free will is the ability > > > of fully consciouness to choose > > > from the set of choices that the > > > nature presents it. > > > > > > > > > > > > What you think? > > > > > > I am very interested in reading your > > > thoughts on the matter. > > > > > > Greetings, > > > ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 'problem' lies within the concept itself. > > > > The concept 'free will' or choice arises out of the assumption that > > there is not only such a thing as choice but also assumes there is > an > > entity to whom it could apply. > > > > All this speculation occurs within the assumption of linear time. > > > > A salmon, returning to the waters of its birth to spawn, will make > > innumerable choices as it swims upstream based on the chemical > > composition of the water. It will choose a place to excavate > the > > sand.....It will choose a mate. > > > > > > Choice occurs but it is not the salmon that chooses. > > > > Choice occurs.....but there is no chooser. > > > > Likewise the 'choices' that man likes to believe that he makes are > > subject to the infintite interrelated influence of everything that > > preceded them. > > > > Does that mean that destiny applies to all events? > > > > No. > > > > There are no separate, isolated events. > > > > > > > > > > In this context......the term 'choice', 'free will' and destiny > become > > meaningless. > > > > > > toombaru > > > what do you like sir...a piece of banana...or a piece of shit... > I see it like this...dont make choosing into a problem... > go with the banana if you like bananas > go with both if there is no choice > go with none if youre an ascet > only give choosing between objects its right place > and nothing will bother you... > again...choice...is not to be made an problem > be free....and walk wherever you like...its your place... > ...iietsa > There is no you not to be bothered. There is no you to be free. There is no you separare from the place it walks. toombaru toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I am interested in hearing your thoughts > > > > on the matter of free will and destiny. > > > > > > > > Here are my " current " thoughts on this > > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > Destiny is the law of nature like... > > > > > > > > Sun will die in X billion years, > > > > earth will rotate around sun in X days, > > > > there will be night in USA after X hours, > > > > from rose seed will grow rose plant, > > > > fire is hot and can burn skin, > > > > if you indulge in a thought, it will come > > > > back, if you stay neutral to a thought, it > > > > will decrease in frequency... > > > > > > > > > > > > Free will is the " number of choices " > > > > that the " nature " gives you. For > > > > each specy and for each incarnation these > > > > choices are limited and again work > > > > according to natural laws like... > > > > > > > > Thoughts that are 'previously stored' > > > > will recycle and come to you in many > > > > forms - you can believe them or you > > > > can question them. You can act on them > > > > or just watch them. In order to make a > > > > choice, you will need to present aand > > > > fully conscious. If you are NOT present, > > > > the 'choice of least resistance' [usually > > > > the 'habitual' choice] will get automatically > > > > acted on. And, whichever > > > > choice you pick - its consequency will > > > > be determined by the destiny [pre-defined > > > > natural laws]. > > > > > > > > Weed whose seed are present in your > > > > graden will grow into a plant - you > > > > can cut it, uproot it or let it grow. > > > > And, whichever choice you pick - its > > > > consequency will be determined by the > > > > destiny [pre-defined natural laws]. > > > > > > > > > > > > AS I see, free will is the ability > > > > of fully consciouness to choose > > > > from the set of choices that the > > > > nature presents it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you think? > > > > > > > > I am very interested in reading your > > > > thoughts on the matter. > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 'problem' lies within the concept itself. > > > > > > The concept 'free will' or choice arises out of the assumption that > > > there is not only such a thing as choice but also assumes there is > > an > > > entity to whom it could apply. > > > > > > All this speculation occurs within the assumption of linear time. > > > > > > A salmon, returning to the waters of its birth to spawn, will make > > > innumerable choices as it swims upstream based on the chemical > > > composition of the water. It will choose a place to excavate > > the > > > sand.....It will choose a mate. > > > > > > > > > Choice occurs but it is not the salmon that chooses. > > > > > > Choice occurs.....but there is no chooser. > > > > > > Likewise the 'choices' that man likes to believe that he makes are > > > subject to the infintite interrelated influence of everything that > > > preceded them. > > > > > > Does that mean that destiny applies to all events? > > > > > > No. > > > > > > There are no separate, isolated events. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this context......the term 'choice', 'free will' and destiny > > become > > > meaningless. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > what do you like sir...a piece of banana...or a piece of shit... > > I see it like this...dont make choosing into a problem... > > go with the banana if you like bananas > > go with both if there is no choice > > go with none if youre an ascet > > only give choosing between objects its right place > > and nothing will bother you... > > again...choice...is not to be made an problem > > be free....and walk wherever you like...its your place... > > ...iietsa > > > > > There is no you not to be bothered. > > There is no you to be free. > > There is no you separare from the place it walks. > > > toombaru > there is no toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I am interested in hearing your thoughts > > > > > on the matter of free will and destiny. > > > > > > > > > > Here are my " current " thoughts on this > > > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Destiny is the law of nature like... > > > > > > > > > > Sun will die in X billion years, > > > > > earth will rotate around sun in X days, > > > > > there will be night in USA after X hours, > > > > > from rose seed will grow rose plant, > > > > > fire is hot and can burn skin, > > > > > if you indulge in a thought, it will come > > > > > back, if you stay neutral to a thought, it > > > > > will decrease in frequency... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Free will is the " number of choices " > > > > > that the " nature " gives you. For > > > > > each specy and for each incarnation these > > > > > choices are limited and again work > > > > > according to natural laws like... > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts that are 'previously stored' > > > > > will recycle and come to you in many > > > > > forms - you can believe them or you > > > > > can question them. You can act on them > > > > > or just watch them. In order to make a > > > > > choice, you will need to present aand > > > > > fully conscious. If you are NOT present, > > > > > the 'choice of least resistance' [usually > > > > > the 'habitual' choice] will get automatically > > > > > acted on. And, whichever > > > > > choice you pick - its consequency will > > > > > be determined by the destiny [pre-defined > > > > > natural laws]. > > > > > > > > > > Weed whose seed are present in your > > > > > graden will grow into a plant - you > > > > > can cut it, uproot it or let it grow. > > > > > And, whichever choice you pick - its > > > > > consequency will be determined by the > > > > > destiny [pre-defined natural laws]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AS I see, free will is the ability > > > > > of fully consciouness to choose > > > > > from the set of choices that the > > > > > nature presents it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you think? > > > > > > > > > > I am very interested in reading your > > > > > thoughts on the matter. > > > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 'problem' lies within the concept itself. > > > > > > > > The concept 'free will' or choice arises out of the assumption that > > > > there is not only such a thing as choice but also assumes there is > > > an > > > > entity to whom it could apply. > > > > > > > > All this speculation occurs within the assumption of linear time. > > > > > > > > A salmon, returning to the waters of its birth to spawn, will make > > > > innumerable choices as it swims upstream based on the chemical > > > > composition of the water. It will choose a place to excavate > > > the > > > > sand.....It will choose a mate. > > > > > > > > > > > > Choice occurs but it is not the salmon that chooses. > > > > > > > > Choice occurs.....but there is no chooser. > > > > > > > > Likewise the 'choices' that man likes to believe that he makes are > > > > subject to the infintite interrelated influence of everything that > > > > preceded them. > > > > > > > > Does that mean that destiny applies to all events? > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > There are no separate, isolated events. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this context......the term 'choice', 'free will' and destiny > > > become > > > > meaningless. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > what do you like sir...a piece of banana...or a piece of shit... > > > I see it like this...dont make choosing into a problem... > > > go with the banana if you like bananas > > > go with both if there is no choice > > > go with none if youre an ascet > > > only give choosing between objects its right place > > > and nothing will bother you... > > > again...choice...is not to be made an problem > > > be free....and walk wherever you like...its your place... > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > There is no you not to be bothered. > > > > There is no you to be free. > > > > There is no you separare from the place it walks. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > there is no toombaru > Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I am interested in hearing your thoughts > > > > > on the matter of free will and destiny. > > > > > > > > > > Here are my " current " thoughts on this > > > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Destiny is the law of nature like... > > > > > > > > > > Sun will die in X billion years, > > > > > earth will rotate around sun in X days, > > > > > there will be night in USA after X hours, > > > > > from rose seed will grow rose plant, > > > > > fire is hot and can burn skin, > > > > > if you indulge in a thought, it will come > > > > > back, if you stay neutral to a thought, it > > > > > will decrease in frequency... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Free will is the " number of choices " > > > > > that the " nature " gives you. For > > > > > each specy and for each incarnation these > > > > > choices are limited and again work > > > > > according to natural laws like... > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts that are 'previously stored' > > > > > will recycle and come to you in many > > > > > forms - you can believe them or you > > > > > can question them. You can act on them > > > > > or just watch them. In order to make a > > > > > choice, you will need to present aand > > > > > fully conscious. If you are NOT present, > > > > > the 'choice of least resistance' [usually > > > > > the 'habitual' choice] will get automatically > > > > > acted on. And, whichever > > > > > choice you pick - its consequency will > > > > > be determined by the destiny [pre-defined > > > > > natural laws]. > > > > > > > > > > Weed whose seed are present in your > > > > > graden will grow into a plant - you > > > > > can cut it, uproot it or let it grow. > > > > > And, whichever choice you pick - its > > > > > consequency will be determined by the > > > > > destiny [pre-defined natural laws]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AS I see, free will is the ability > > > > > of fully consciouness to choose > > > > > from the set of choices that the > > > > > nature presents it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you think? > > > > > > > > > > I am very interested in reading your > > > > > thoughts on the matter. > > > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 'problem' lies within the concept itself. > > > > > > > > The concept 'free will' or choice arises out of the assumption that > > > > there is not only such a thing as choice but also assumes there is > > > an > > > > entity to whom it could apply. > > > > > > > > All this speculation occurs within the assumption of linear time. > > > > > > > > A salmon, returning to the waters of its birth to spawn, will make > > > > innumerable choices as it swims upstream based on the chemical > > > > composition of the water. It will choose a place to excavate > > > the > > > > sand.....It will choose a mate. > > > > > > > > > > > > Choice occurs but it is not the salmon that chooses. > > > > > > > > Choice occurs.....but there is no chooser. > > > > > > > > Likewise the 'choices' that man likes to believe that he makes are > > > > subject to the infintite interrelated influence of everything that > > > > preceded them. > > > > > > > > Does that mean that destiny applies to all events? > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > There are no separate, isolated events. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this context......the term 'choice', 'free will' and destiny > > > become > > > > meaningless. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > what do you like sir...a piece of banana...or a piece of shit... > > > I see it like this...dont make choosing into a problem... > > > go with the banana if you like bananas > > > go with both if there is no choice > > > go with none if youre an ascet > > > only give choosing between objects its right place > > > and nothing will bother you... > > > again...choice...is not to be made an problem > > > be free....and walk wherever you like...its your place... > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > There is no you not to be bothered. > > > > There is no you to be free. > > > > There is no you separare from the place it walks. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > there is no toombaru > yes there is, it is the place where one falls in love with emptiness and nothingness, free to live without fear of death the tomb are u, am I resurrected. Glowing, soft shelled creature swimming upwards into the Light. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I am interested in hearing your thoughts > > > > on the matter of free will and destiny. > > > > > > > > Here are my " current " thoughts on this > > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > Destiny is the law of nature like... > > > > > > > > Sun will die in X billion years, > > > > earth will rotate around sun in X days, > > > > there will be night in USA after X hours, > > > > from rose seed will grow rose plant, > > > > fire is hot and can burn skin, > > > > if you indulge in a thought, it will come > > > > back, if you stay neutral to a thought, it > > > > will decrease in frequency... > > > > > > > > > > > > Free will is the " number of choices " > > > > that the " nature " gives you. For > > > > each specy and for each incarnation these > > > > choices are limited and again work > > > > according to natural laws like... > > > > > > > > Thoughts that are 'previously stored' > > > > will recycle and come to you in many > > > > forms - you can believe them or you > > > > can question them. You can act on them > > > > or just watch them. In order to make a > > > > choice, you will need to present aand > > > > fully conscious. If you are NOT present, > > > > the 'choice of least resistance' [usually > > > > the 'habitual' choice] will get automatically > > > > acted on. And, whichever > > > > choice you pick - its consequency will > > > > be determined by the destiny [pre-defined > > > > natural laws]. > > > > > > > > Weed whose seed are present in your > > > > graden will grow into a plant - you > > > > can cut it, uproot it or let it grow. > > > > And, whichever choice you pick - its > > > > consequency will be determined by the > > > > destiny [pre-defined natural laws]. > > > > > > > > > > > > AS I see, free will is the ability > > > > of fully consciouness to choose > > > > from the set of choices that the > > > > nature presents it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you think? > > > > > > > > I am very interested in reading your > > > > thoughts on the matter. > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 'problem' lies within the concept itself. > > > > > > The concept 'free will' or choice arises out of the assumption that > > > there is not only such a thing as choice but also assumes there is > > an > > > entity to whom it could apply. > > > > > > All this speculation occurs within the assumption of linear time. > > > > > > A salmon, returning to the waters of its birth to spawn, will make > > > innumerable choices as it swims upstream based on the chemical > > > composition of the water. It will choose a place to excavate > > the > > > sand.....It will choose a mate. > > > > > > > > > Choice occurs but it is not the salmon that chooses. > > > > > > Choice occurs.....but there is no chooser. > > > > > > Likewise the 'choices' that man likes to believe that he makes are > > > subject to the infintite interrelated influence of everything that > > > preceded them. > > > > > > Does that mean that destiny applies to all events? > > > > > > No. > > > > > > There are no separate, isolated events. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this context......the term 'choice', 'free will' and destiny > > become > > > meaningless. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > what do you like sir...a piece of banana...or a piece of shit... > > I see it like this...dont make choosing into a problem... > > go with the banana if you like bananas > > go with both if there is no choice > > go with none if youre an ascet > > only give choosing between objects its right place > > and nothing will bother you... > > again...choice...is not to be made an problem > > be free....and walk wherever you like...its your place... > > ...iietsa > > > > > There is no you not to be bothered. > > There is no you to be free. > > There is no you separare from the place it walks. > > > toombaru > > > > > > toombaru > if there is a stone in your shoe...take it out of there... ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I am interested in hearing your thoughts > > > > > > on the matter of free will and destiny. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are my " current " thoughts on this > > > > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Destiny is the law of nature like... > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun will die in X billion years, > > > > > > earth will rotate around sun in X days, > > > > > > there will be night in USA after X hours, > > > > > > from rose seed will grow rose plant, > > > > > > fire is hot and can burn skin, > > > > > > if you indulge in a thought, it will come > > > > > > back, if you stay neutral to a thought, it > > > > > > will decrease in frequency... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Free will is the " number of choices " > > > > > > that the " nature " gives you. For > > > > > > each specy and for each incarnation these > > > > > > choices are limited and again work > > > > > > according to natural laws like... > > > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts that are 'previously stored' > > > > > > will recycle and come to you in many > > > > > > forms - you can believe them or you > > > > > > can question them. You can act on them > > > > > > or just watch them. In order to make a > > > > > > choice, you will need to present aand > > > > > > fully conscious. If you are NOT present, > > > > > > the 'choice of least resistance' [usually > > > > > > the 'habitual' choice] will get automatically > > > > > > acted on. And, whichever > > > > > > choice you pick - its consequency will > > > > > > be determined by the destiny [pre-defined > > > > > > natural laws]. > > > > > > > > > > > > Weed whose seed are present in your > > > > > > graden will grow into a plant - you > > > > > > can cut it, uproot it or let it grow. > > > > > > And, whichever choice you pick - its > > > > > > consequency will be determined by the > > > > > > destiny [pre-defined natural laws]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AS I see, free will is the ability > > > > > > of fully consciouness to choose > > > > > > from the set of choices that the > > > > > > nature presents it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very interested in reading your > > > > > > thoughts on the matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > > ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 'problem' lies within the concept itself. > > > > > > > > > > The concept 'free will' or choice arises out of the assumption > that > > > > > there is not only such a thing as choice but also assumes > there is > > > > an > > > > > entity to whom it could apply. > > > > > > > > > > All this speculation occurs within the assumption of linear time. > > > > > > > > > > A salmon, returning to the waters of its birth to spawn, will make > > > > > innumerable choices as it swims upstream based on the chemical > > > > > composition of the water. It will choose a place to excavate > > > > the > > > > > sand.....It will choose a mate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Choice occurs but it is not the salmon that chooses. > > > > > > > > > > Choice occurs.....but there is no chooser. > > > > > > > > > > Likewise the 'choices' that man likes to believe that he makes are > > > > > subject to the infintite interrelated influence of everything that > > > > > preceded them. > > > > > > > > > > Does that mean that destiny applies to all events? > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > > There are no separate, isolated events. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this context......the term 'choice', 'free will' and destiny > > > > become > > > > > meaningless. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > what do you like sir...a piece of banana...or a piece of shit... > > > > I see it like this...dont make choosing into a problem... > > > > go with the banana if you like bananas > > > > go with both if there is no choice > > > > go with none if youre an ascet > > > > only give choosing between objects its right place > > > > and nothing will bother you... > > > > again...choice...is not to be made an problem > > > > be free....and walk wherever you like...its your place... > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no you not to be bothered. > > > > > > There is no you to be free. > > > > > > There is no you separare from the place it walks. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > there is no toombaru > > > > > > Correct. > we all understand what " correct " means here.. we dont say...... " for something to be correct it will have to have someone to be correct to, if there is no one at all - there can not be something that is right or wrong " ......... do you understand what I am saying ? .....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Does not the idea of free will suggest also the existence of randomness in the universe? Free will implies that we can choose, without apparent reason, anything we want. It means we can make a decision to throw a stone into the water - or not. The act of throwing the stone or not throwing the stone would alter the course of the universe in some way. From an outer point of view, this act would appear as random, uncaused. N's view, and also many scientists would agree, that there is no such thing as free will, only the illusion of free will. The act of throwing the stone was brought about by many causes - all coinciding at that particular point in space-time. There is no question of free- will. This I think is also basic Hindu belief. But does it even matter, from the point of view of the relative? It doesn't change the range of possibility in your life. Destiny? Everything happens because the universe is as it is. Destiny is just another word for this, and I think it's rather meaningless. F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 > > > > Correct. > > > we all understand what " correct " means here.. > we dont say...... > " for something to be correct > it will have to have someone to be correct to, if there is no one at > all - there can not be something that is right or wrong " ......... > do you understand what I am saying ? > ....iietsa > What is correct in nature? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > Does not the idea of free will suggest also the existence of > randomness in the universe? Free will implies that we can choose, > without apparent reason, anything we want. It means we can make a > decision to throw a stone into the water - or not. The act of > throwing the stone or not throwing the stone would alter the course > of the universe in some way. From an outer point of view, this act > would appear as random, uncaused. > > N's view, and also many scientists would agree, that there is no > such thing as free will, only the illusion of free will. The act of > throwing the stone was brought about by many causes - all coinciding > at that particular point in space-time. There is no question of free- > will. This I think is also basic Hindu belief. > > But does it even matter, from the point of view of the relative? It > doesn't change the range of possibility in your life. > > Destiny? Everything happens because the universe is as it is. > Destiny is just another word for this, and I think it's rather > meaningless. > > F > Understand the nature of the one claims to be thinking and all the rest will be answered. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 > Understand the nature of the one claims to be thinking and all the > rest will be answered. > > > toombaru > Well, that's good to know. I'll keep working on it. I've started noticing things happening when I'm asleep, or just waking up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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