Guest guest Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta: > > > > > In his own words, > > > > > " When I met my Guru, he told me, 'You are not what you take > > > yourself > > > > > to be. Find out what you are. Watch the sense I AM, find > your > > > real > > > > > Self...' I did as he told me. All my spare time I would > spend > > > > > looking at myself in silence...and what a difference it > made, > > > and > > > > > how soon! It took me only three years to realize my true > > > nature. " > > > > > > > > > > it took him only three years to realize his true nature.... > > > > > > > > > > how did you realize your true nature ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stories about realization are stories......about realization. > > > > If I ask someone what type of car they drove to get to this little > > village.......they will all say something quite different. > > > > You are searching for a method to attain something that exists > only as > > a concept. > > > > Adya heard a bird and disappeared......and you ask him what kind > of a > > bird it was. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > you are right when saying that I am asking for a story...yes > and this story as you say are quite different depending on the car > they drove...yes > but I am not searching for a method... > and I am not trying to attain something... > > I am not at all asking what kind of bird it was > ....I am asking how he suddenly came to hear it ? > can you see the difference in questioning.... > you see...for twentyseven years he had been at the very same place... > exactly where the bird-song was...but he had never heard it before... > so suddenly he heard the song....... > ...how did he suddenly came to hear the song ? > do you understand the question ? > ...iietsa > but most likely no " how " to it... there is no single causal chain Everything is the cause of Everything you question does seem to be looking for a recipe... so I see where toombaru might think you are looking for a method. why " how " ? why assume there *is* a how? the " transformation " is most likely (almost certainly in my view) not due to an " insight " , but simply the outward manifestation of a fundamental change in the way the brain works, a fundamental change in the way the brain puts raw input data together. There can never be an explanation for how that happens. There is no " logical " cause, because it is not based on a change in the way the mind organizes its assumptions. Generally philosophy is about one's assumptions about life, and examining those, and considering how one's assumptions affect one's outlook, how the world looks, etc. Nondualism is not like that at all. Nondualism has nothing to do with one's assumptions. It goes deep into the actual mechanisms of information processing. In that sense Nondualism is not a philosphy at all, but a kind of *re-programming* or even re-metaprogramming. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta: > > > > > > In his own words, > > > > > > " When I met my Guru, he told me, 'You are not what you take > > > > yourself > > > > > > to be. Find out what you are. Watch the sense I AM, find > > your > > > > real > > > > > > Self...' I did as he told me. All my spare time I would > > spend > > > > > > looking at myself in silence...and what a difference it > > made, > > > > and > > > > > > how soon! It took me only three years to realize my true > > > > nature. " > > > > > > > > > > > > it took him only three years to realize his true nature.... > > > > > > > > > > > > how did you realize your true nature ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stories about realization are stories......about realization. > > > > > > If I ask someone what type of car they drove to get to this little > > > village.......they will all say something quite different. > > > > > > You are searching for a method to attain something that exists > > only as > > > a concept. > > > > > > Adya heard a bird and disappeared......and you ask him what kind > > of a > > > bird it was. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > you are right when saying that I am asking for a story...yes > > and this story as you say are quite different depending on the car > > they drove...yes > > but I am not searching for a method... > > and I am not trying to attain something... > > > > I am not at all asking what kind of bird it was > > ....I am asking how he suddenly came to hear it ? > > can you see the difference in questioning.... > > you see...for twentyseven years he had been at the very same place... > > exactly where the bird-song was...but he had never heard it before... > > so suddenly he heard the song....... > > ...how did he suddenly came to hear the song ? > > do you understand the question ? > > ...iietsa > > > > but most likely no " how " to it... > > there is no single causal chain > > Everything is the cause of Everything > > you question does seem to be looking for > a recipe... so I see where toombaru might > think you are looking for a method. > > why " how " ? > why assume there *is* a how? > > the " transformation " is most likely > (almost certainly in my view) not due to > an " insight " , but simply the outward manifestation > of a fundamental change in the way the brain works, > a fundamental change in the way the brain puts raw > input data together. There can never be an explanation > for how that happens. There is no " logical " cause, > because it is not based on a change in the way the > mind organizes its assumptions. > > Generally philosophy is about one's assumptions > about life, and examining those, and considering > how one's assumptions affect one's outlook, how > the world looks, etc. > > Nondualism is not like that at all. > Nondualism has nothing to do with one's assumptions. > It goes deep into the actual mechanisms of information > processing. > > In that sense Nondualism is not a philosphy at all, > but a kind of *re-programming* or even re-metaprogramming. > > Bill > yes but in my life there was a radical change....and by radical I mean like....for 30 years you know that you are mr. so and so ....and POFF...this mr. so and so dies absolutely 100% you must have gone true it to understand what such change means... otherways it is only mr. so and so changing little by little... and that is no change at all if you ask me...mr so and so can climb mountains and sit there for centuries in meditation...or he could go live by all the holy-ones...still no change... .....maby more accepting more loving more giving....but still mr.so and so....nothing has changed if you ask me it is still exactly the same as it was before .....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta: > > > > > > > In his own words, > > > > > > > " When I met my Guru, he told me, 'You are not what you > take > > > > > yourself > > > > > > > to be. Find out what you are. Watch the sense I AM, find > > > your > > > > > real > > > > > > > Self...' I did as he told me. All my spare time I would > > > spend > > > > > > > looking at myself in silence...and what a difference it > > > made, > > > > > and > > > > > > > how soon! It took me only three years to realize my true > > > > > nature. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it took him only three years to realize his true > nature.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how did you realize your true nature ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stories about realization are stories......about realization. > > > > > > > > If I ask someone what type of car they drove to get to this > little > > > > village.......they will all say something quite different. > > > > > > > > You are searching for a method to attain something that exists > > > only as > > > > a concept. > > > > > > > > Adya heard a bird and disappeared......and you ask him what > kind > > > of a > > > > bird it was. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > you are right when saying that I am asking for a story...yes > > > and this story as you say are quite different depending on the > car > > > they drove...yes > > > but I am not searching for a method... > > > and I am not trying to attain something... > > > > > > I am not at all asking what kind of bird it was > > > ....I am asking how he suddenly came to hear it ? > > > can you see the difference in questioning.... > > > you see...for twentyseven years he had been at the very same > place... > > > exactly where the bird-song was...but he had never heard it > before... > > > so suddenly he heard the song....... > > > ...how did he suddenly came to hear the song ? > > > do you understand the question ? > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > but most likely no " how " to it... > > > > there is no single causal chain > > > > Everything is the cause of Everything > > > > you question does seem to be looking for > > a recipe... so I see where toombaru might > > think you are looking for a method. > > > > why " how " ? > > why assume there *is* a how? > > > > the " transformation " is most likely > > (almost certainly in my view) not due to > > an " insight " , but simply the outward manifestation > > of a fundamental change in the way the brain works, > > a fundamental change in the way the brain puts raw > > input data together. There can never be an explanation > > for how that happens. There is no " logical " cause, > > because it is not based on a change in the way the > > mind organizes its assumptions. > > > > Generally philosophy is about one's assumptions > > about life, and examining those, and considering > > how one's assumptions affect one's outlook, how > > the world looks, etc. > > > > Nondualism is not like that at all. > > Nondualism has nothing to do with one's assumptions. > > It goes deep into the actual mechanisms of information > > processing. > > > > In that sense Nondualism is not a philosphy at all, > > but a kind of *re-programming* or even re-metaprogramming. > > > > Bill > > > yes but in my life there was a radical change....and by radical I > mean like....for 30 years you know that you are mr. so and so > ...and POFF...this mr. so and so dies absolutely 100% > you must have gone true it to understand what such change means... > otherways it is only mr. so and so changing little by little... > and that is no change at all if you ask me...mr so and so can climb > mountains and sit there for centuries in meditation...or he could go > live by all the holy-ones...still no change... > ....maby more accepting more loving more giving....but still mr.so > and so....nothing has changed > if you ask me it is still exactly the same as it was before > ....iietsa > that is very consistent with what I wrote. there is a fundamental " switch-over " of the brain. boom! the brain is suddenly working in a completely different way. there is no way to connect what is now with what was then. They are fundamentally unrelated. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nisargadatta: > > > > > > > > In his own words, > > > > > > > > " When I met my Guru, he told me, 'You are not what you > > take > > > > > > yourself > > > > > > > > to be. Find out what you are. Watch the sense I AM, find > > > > your > > > > > > real > > > > > > > > Self...' I did as he told me. All my spare time I would > > > > spend > > > > > > > > looking at myself in silence...and what a difference it > > > > made, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > how soon! It took me only three years to realize my true > > > > > > nature. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it took him only three years to realize his true > > nature.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how did you realize your true nature ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stories about realization are stories......about realization. > > > > > > > > > > If I ask someone what type of car they drove to get to this > > little > > > > > village.......they will all say something quite different. > > > > > > > > > > You are searching for a method to attain something that exists > > > > only as > > > > > a concept. > > > > > > > > > > Adya heard a bird and disappeared......and you ask him what > > kind > > > > of a > > > > > bird it was. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > you are right when saying that I am asking for a story...yes > > > > and this story as you say are quite different depending on the > > car > > > > they drove...yes > > > > but I am not searching for a method... > > > > and I am not trying to attain something... > > > > > > > > I am not at all asking what kind of bird it was > > > > ....I am asking how he suddenly came to hear it ? > > > > can you see the difference in questioning.... > > > > you see...for twentyseven years he had been at the very same > > place... > > > > exactly where the bird-song was...but he had never heard it > > before... > > > > so suddenly he heard the song....... > > > > ...how did he suddenly came to hear the song ? > > > > do you understand the question ? > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > but most likely no " how " to it... > > > > > > there is no single causal chain > > > > > > Everything is the cause of Everything > > > > > > you question does seem to be looking for > > > a recipe... so I see where toombaru might > > > think you are looking for a method. > > > > > > why " how " ? > > > why assume there *is* a how? > > > > > > the " transformation " is most likely > > > (almost certainly in my view) not due to > > > an " insight " , but simply the outward manifestation > > > of a fundamental change in the way the brain works, > > > a fundamental change in the way the brain puts raw > > > input data together. There can never be an explanation > > > for how that happens. There is no " logical " cause, > > > because it is not based on a change in the way the > > > mind organizes its assumptions. > > > > > > Generally philosophy is about one's assumptions > > > about life, and examining those, and considering > > > how one's assumptions affect one's outlook, how > > > the world looks, etc. > > > > > > Nondualism is not like that at all. > > > Nondualism has nothing to do with one's assumptions. > > > It goes deep into the actual mechanisms of information > > > processing. > > > > > > In that sense Nondualism is not a philosphy at all, > > > but a kind of *re-programming* or even re-metaprogramming. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > yes but in my life there was a radical change....and by radical I > > mean like....for 30 years you know that you are mr. so and so > > ...and POFF...this mr. so and so dies absolutely 100% > > you must have gone true it to understand what such change means... > > otherways it is only mr. so and so changing little by little... > > and that is no change at all if you ask me...mr so and so can climb > > mountains and sit there for centuries in meditation...or he could go > > live by all the holy-ones...still no change... > > ....maby more accepting more loving more giving....but still mr.so > > and so....nothing has changed > > if you ask me it is still exactly the same as it was before > > ....iietsa > > > that is very consistent with what I wrote. > > there is a fundamental " switch-over " of the brain. > boom! > the brain is suddenly working in a completely > different way. > there is no way to connect what is now with what > was then. They are fundamentally unrelated. > > Bill > I am (not the words I am) are not of the brain... but the ego was a thing of the brain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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