Guest guest Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 >>>> >> >> P: Since you are asking the question, >> you should start by defining what realization >> is to you. > > A: I am looking for some kind of " common " > definition. Based on my own experience, > my definition is that in a human life, > " realization " and " un-realization [ignorance] " > is an on-going process and not an one time > event that happens and a human is permanently > transformed. P: Arvind, Ignorance is a lack of knowledge, education, tact, or sensitivity to another's feelings. I guess If you use it in connection with realization, then you're referring to unawareness of numen. Once numen informs our life, and the vacuity of self is felt, this could be called realization. That realization doesn't meanthat a state of immutability has been reached. Change is the very nature of manifestation. > > A: In my experience, for a " human " , permanent > transformation NEVER happens. As time passes > [with continued 'effortless' practice] - you > just get " good " at it and it becomes easier > and easier, simpler and simpler and you start > acting in the world without having to leave > " realization " . P: " Without having to leave realization " gives the impression that realization is something concrete that one can arrive and depart from like an airport. Realization is something like puberty, something at the same time irreversible, and yet one can still act and feel like a child at times. > > A: But, there is no point where you are > permanently transformed. There is no point > where the 'potential' for ignorance dies. P: Permanently transformed in what way? Aging is permanently transforming your body and mind, so can realization, but that doesn't mean change stops, or bliss is glued to the brain. Ignorance of what? > > >> P: I know there is no " me " to hold to any feeling, >> so they come and go without staying long. Impermanence >> is FINE. I love it! > > A: Well... sometimes, I love 'impermanence' > of 'mental states', sometimes I don't. P: That's OK. > > A: And, I notice that I can not be 'angry', > 'sad', 'irritated', worried and LOVE it > at the same time. P: No problem, if you don't have an ideal of how you should feel. > >> > > >> P: Is not what it is felt, but the empty >> center through which those feelings float without >> sticking around like clouds through a summer sky, >> which is the core of realization. > > A: Is that your definition of " realization " ? P: That, and being informed by numen, and certainty, is much of it. I really don't give a fig if it can be measured, or not. I don't give a fig if there is a greater realization waiting. I don't give a fig if realization can be lost, or not. In short, I don't give a fig about the future. I think you are OK, Arvind, but you still haven't accepted change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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