Realization/Pete

[Guest guest]

>

> P: Arvind, Ignorance is a lack of knowledge, education,

> tact, or sensitivity to another's feelings. I guess If you

> use it in connection with realization, then you're referring

> to unawareness of numen.

 

A: " Ignorance " that I am referring to here is the

our/human tendency to confuse our reality

to be 'ego self'. By ignorance I mean our

tendency to form an attachment to our " thought

self " .

 

P: Well, that confusion is not possible

after realization, but some defense mechanisms

associated with the organism remain.

 

A: By ongoing process I mean that this

'ability' to form attachment survives

even after seeing falsity of the " thought image " .

 

P: Nis was addicted to smoking. One can still

prefer coffee over tea, prefer the company of a

loved one, and yet still see all that as passing

clouds.

 

 

A: BTW... what do you mean by " numen " ?

 

P: A sense of luminous presence, to feel

acted by that, rather than being a doer of deeds.

 

 

> P: " Without having to leave realization " gives

> the impression that realization is something concrete

> that one can arrive and depart from like an airport.

 

A: By not having to leave realization I mean

acting in the world without forming an

attachment to the thought image of self.

By leaving realization I mean getting

lost in identification with thought self

again when while deal in various aspects

of life.

To me, [after initial realization], crux

of the practice is to learn and integrate the

first one [ " acting in the world without

forming an attachment to the thought image

of self " ].

 

P: I'm not attached to any thought image,

I didn't have to practice that, it dropped

by itself. I don't think one can practice that,

one either see it, or don't.

 

 

> > A: And, I notice that I can not be 'angry',

> > 'sad', 'irritated', worried and LOVE it

> > at the same time.

>

> P: No problem, if you don't have an ideal

> of how you should feel.

 

A: I have noticed that having or not having

an 'ideal' doesn't matter much in regard

to what emotional state I end up in. It only

matters after I notice the mental state I end

up in. After that, if I have an " ideal " - I might

either try to achieve it or create suffering and

mental pain for having missed it. If I don't have

an " ideal " - I can just watch it dispassionately

and let it go or be " empowered " by it, indulge

in it and thus, make it stronger and more repeatable.

 

P: Exactly! Having an ideal of how things , or feelings

ought to be, always creates suffering. It's another aspect

of that self image. Even the ideal of realization feeds

the self-image in a subtle way.

 

>

> >

> >

 

A: 'Not giving a fig' has some " aggressive " connotation

for me. I associate with expression some anger,

resentment or displeasure. Is that what you are trying

to covey, Pete?

 

P: No, just emphasis. My writing, and speaking

style is very emphatic, and people often mistake that for

anger. That and a certain bluntness of speech contributes

to give that impression.

 

> I think you are OK,

> Arvind, but you still haven't accepted change.

 

A: Yes, I too think I am OK.

 

But, I see it more as I haven't stopped 'exploring'

and " investigating " and I beginning to see that

this exploration and investigation is benefiting me

at mental and personal level. I further see that

this exploration and investigation is a natural

tendency in me and I can not easily stop it without

repressing which might have some undesired

consequences.

 

As time has passed, I have become 'stable'

at some level and at another level, I am

still trying to question, inquire and learn more...

 

I think that is the part of the process of

'integration' and 'living' and 'learning

to live'.

 

I guess at some level, I will keep learning

all my " human " life.

 

P: Nothing wrong with that. I have been

reading some of your emails for 3 years now,

and I see a lot of progress. I'm sure you

remember I used to give you flak about

your long poetic tirades. )