Guest guest Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 >>Just reading Tolle. Something struck me about his awakening story in comparison with the advice he was giving. >>His awakening story (which I very much resonate with, although for me it wasn't a permanent thing) has a bit where he was struck by the incongruity of two " I " s (one who wanted to be gotten rid of, one who was observing), and how this incongruity precipitated a kind of inner revolution where he felt " he " was sucked into a kind of " Vortex " , into a " Void " . IOW it wasn't necessarily a pleasant experience. >>All well and good. But a little bit later, in his instruction, he talks (as many Teachers do) about the " gap " between thoughts, and presents this as a place of Rest, as something pleasant. (I know he talks about fear later on, but I just noticed this particular instruction early on in the book, and coming after the intro where he talks about his own experience, the error was striking.) >>Now, the thing is, there's actually a bit of a contradiction here, and I think it represents a common mistake that enlightened people sometimes make in their teaching. FOR THEM, the " gap " between their thoughts is their natural Home, for sure. And for some people (for example, people who have done a lot of meditation), the space, the openness, the silence, will be welcoming. Very Good, PGS! I agree. >>But I venture to say that for many people (certainly for me) it's quite the opposite, this " gap " actually creates a moment of instant fear - fear of dissolution, death. One, as it were " lurches " into the Abyss, feels a moment of intense and peculiar vertigo, and one's whole system instantly retreats from it, like a snail shrinking back into its shell. >>Another way of looking at this is: the mind suddenly sees its own insanity, falseness, the jerry-built, Potemkin-village-like nature of itself, and the background of that, the nothingness that's the context of it - and this is utterly terrifying. Yes, I agree. >>I further venture to say that this will be the condition for most people who try self-inquiry (or presence-practices of other kinds) unprepared. Often, at a dinner party, if one raises cosmic or spiritual issues for discussion, someone will shiver and say " thinking about that sort of stuff makes me dizzy. " THAT DIZZINESS IS IT. Little do they know how close they are, and if they would only persist ... >>So it's probably wise to flag it as a possibility for some. Otherwise the danger is, having been told by enlightened people that the " gap " is a pleasant thing, they will avoid the terrifying thing, thinking they're looking in the wrong direction, whereas actually _for them_, the fear is pointing in the _right_ direction. I agree. My wife often talks about " blanking out " , about 'not knowing where she was', 'not knowing what was happening', 'not feeling, thinking or knowing anything'. When I try to enquire, she throws me out suspecting that I might talk about something " spiritual " where she is trying very hard to get me out of the " spiritual " disease that she thinks I have got. >>(Incidentally, this is why I rate teachers like Adyashanti and Lucille, who do include this possibility in their teaching - it's a bit more comprehensive than the usual sweetness-and-light stuff.) I learnt two greatly effective Instant Meditations [in fact, Instant Samadhi] techniques from Papaji: 1. Just for a moment make absolutely no effort and don't stir any thought. 2. Just for a moment don't touch the 'sense of I'. I find them to instantly lead into a boundless , Consciousness Only state and, find both of them extremely easy and simple to do... yet, I find them not 'very comfortable' and not a place where I stay for any long duration. In this regard, I find what Ramana teaches very, very different: - Blank is the EVIL result of looking for Mind... - Even in order to see 'absence'... you MUST be there! - Seer Always Is. - There is NOT a Moment... when you are NOT! - See the Seer... And, I noticed that the moment I " see " the " seer " [i.e. Abide as the Seer] all the mystery, all the fear, all the 'blank', 'emptiness', 'nothingness', 'unbound Consciousness' becomes immaterial. It stops giving any feeling of awe, fear or terror... I see that I AM just 'what I have always been'. I see that in reality, nothing has happened. Something, some connection I feel in the heart and feeling that I feel is [i guess] what Ramana meant by BLISS. Sometimes, I have even 'slept' through whole night like that and thus I have " guessed " that even while I have stayed 'unaware' of it this is how DEEP SLEEP might have been every night. And, this is state that I have indeed found effortless, natural and always available. But, most importantly, it has " meant to me " that even the phenomenon of " realization " is just an illusion as I nothing real changes in the Seer. I have noticed that I remain same throughout all stages and through the Samadhi, meditation, illusion, suffering and " realization " ... I have seen that " trick " is merely to see the Seer in place of 'what is seen', to see 'who is meditating' in place of seeing the 'visions' that meditation or inquiry might bring. The trick is Abide as the Meditator, as the Seer, as the Thinker. The trick is to abide as Who I AM. I have seen that seeing the Blank, Emptiness, Nothingness, expansive Consciousness is just a fun game. But, any time, I look at the " seer " , Abide as the Seer - it is always Same, Unchanged and it is not 'defined' even by 'emptiness'. Yes, it is certainly not empty, not a naught, not a zero... I have seen that phenomenon like sleep, waking, dream, 'samadhi', 'meditation', 'thinking', 'illusion', suffering, 'liberation' has absolutely no effect on it. It remains as it is or, or more accurately stated as: I AM THAT I AM ---- Ramana further says: - anything that " happens " is NOT the REAL thing! - anything that has a 'beginning' should also have an 'end'! - anything that you " feel " , " see " , " experience " , " sense " [including expanded , seemingly Infinite, Unbound Consciousness that results from many meditations] is NOT you! - At any moment, irrespective of what you " see " , " feel " , " sense " or experience... just ask... who is the seer/experiencer? The answer is... I. Ask who am 'I'? - Abide as that 'I'... and, don't pay much attention to what is 'seen', 'experienced' or 'felt'... all that is 'transitory'... all that has a beginning and an end! Only the Seer is Real. - Abide as the Thinker... thoughts will disappear. - Abide as the Meditator... and, there is no need to meditate! - Find out who you really are... - Remain as You Are! [- Abiding as 'who you are' is NOT difficult. It is natural and effortless.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > In this regard, I find what Ramana teaches very, > very different: > > - Blank is the EVIL result of > looking for Mind... > > - Even in order to see > 'absence'... you MUST be there! > > - Seer Always Is. > > > - There is NOT a Moment... when > you are NOT! > > - See the Seer... > > > And, I noticed that the moment I " see " > the " seer " [i.e. Abide as the Seer] all the > mystery, all the fear, all the 'blank', 'emptiness', > 'nothingness', 'unbound Consciousness' becomes > immaterial. It stops giving any feeling of awe, > fear or terror... > > > I see that I AM just 'what I have always been'. > I see that in reality, nothing has happened. > Something, some connection I feel in the heart > and feeling that I feel is [i guess] what Ramana > meant by BLISS. > > > Sometimes, I have even 'slept' through whole night > like that and thus I have " guessed " that even while > I have stayed 'unaware' of it this is how DEEP SLEEP > might have been every night. > > > And, this is state that I have indeed found effortless, > natural and always available. But, most importantly, > it has " meant to me " that even the phenomenon > of " realization " is just an illusion as I nothing real > changes in the Seer. > > > I have noticed that I remain same throughout all > stages and through the Samadhi, meditation, illusion, > suffering and " realization " ... > > > I have seen that " trick " is merely to see the Seer > in place of 'what is seen', to see 'who is meditating' > in place of seeing the 'visions' that meditation or > inquiry might bring. The trick is Abide as the Meditator, > as the Seer, as the Thinker. The trick is to abide as > Who I AM. > > > I have seen that seeing the Blank, Emptiness, Nothingness, > expansive Consciousness is just a fun game. But, any time, > I look at the " seer " , Abide as the Seer - it is always > Same, Unchanged and it is not 'defined' even by > 'emptiness'. Yes, it is certainly not empty, not > a naught, not a zero... > > > I have seen that phenomenon like sleep, > waking, dream, 'samadhi', 'meditation', > 'thinking', 'illusion', suffering, > 'liberation' has absolutely no effect > on it. It remains as it is or, or > more accurately stated as: > > > > I AM THAT I AM > > > > > ---- > > > Ramana further says: > > - anything that " happens " is NOT > the REAL thing! > > - anything that has a 'beginning' > should also have an 'end'! > > - anything that you " feel " , " see " , > " experience " , " sense " [including > expanded , seemingly Infinite, Unbound > Consciousness that results from many > meditations] is NOT you! > > > - At any moment, irrespective of > what you " see " , " feel " , " sense " or > experience... just ask... who is the > seer/experiencer? The answer is... I. > Ask who am 'I'? > > - Abide as that 'I'... and, don't > pay much attention to what is 'seen', > 'experienced' or 'felt'... all that is > 'transitory'... all that has a > beginning and an end! Only the Seer is > Real. > > - Abide as the Thinker... > thoughts will disappear. > > - Abide as the Meditator... and, > there is no need to meditate! > > > - Find out who you really are... > > - Remain as You Are! > > > [- Abiding as 'who you are' is > NOT difficult. It is natural and > effortless.] > There is no seer which one can abide as. Because there is also no 'awareness itself' - that's all nonsense. Maybe Ramana's orgamism was shedding out much more endorphine than the organisms of other people and so he confused his ideas to be the origin of feeling that bliss. I have no problems to imagine that Ramana just has been a representant of endocrinal disorder. I remmember that David Godman wrote that many many seekers did that Ramana inquiry stuff and some for more than 30 year and no one ever succeeded. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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