Guest guest Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 [...] > > There is no seer which one can abide as. Because there is also > no 'awareness itself' - that's all nonsense. Maybe Ramana's orgamism > was shedding out much more endorphine than the organisms of other > people and so he confused his ideas to be the origin of feeling that > bliss. I have no problems to imagine that Ramana just has been a > representant of endocrinal disorder. > > I remmember that David Godman wrote that many many seekers did that > Ramana inquiry stuff and some for more than 30 year and no one ever > succeeded. > > Werner What about " you " Werner? What did " you " " succeed " in? How did you " change " through your listening of JK and all things " spiritual " ? What " you " have now that you didn't have before? What 'you don't have now' that you had before? BTW... Werner, I didn't say what I said because 'Ramana said so' I said it because it tallys with my OWN expereince! Do you want to say that You [Werner] know and undersatnd " my " experience better than I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > [...] > > > > > > There is no seer which one can abide as. Because there is also > > no 'awareness itself' - that's all nonsense. Maybe Ramana's orgamism > > was shedding out much more endorphine than the organisms of other > > people and so he confused his ideas to be the origin of feeling > that > > bliss. I have no problems to imagine that Ramana just has been a > > representant of endocrinal disorder. > > > > I remmember that David Godman wrote that many many seekers did that > > Ramana inquiry stuff and some for more than 30 year and no one ever > > succeeded. > > > > Werner > > > What about " you " Werner? > > What did " you " " succeed " in? > > How did you " change " through your > listening of JK and all things " spiritual " ? > > What " you " have now that you didn't > have before? > > What 'you don't have now' that you > had before? > > > > BTW... Werner, I didn't say what I said > because 'Ramana said so' I said it > because it tallys with my OWN > expereince! > > Do you want to say that You [Werner] > know and undersatnd " my " experience > better than I do? > Arvind, sorry, It wasn't my intention to remove you from the list of enlightened members of this forum. I simply haven't realized that you wrote of your own experiences. Words are not radiant ... Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > BTW... Werner, I didn't say what I said > > because 'Ramana said so' I said it > > because it tallys with my OWN > > expereince! > > > > Do you want to say that You [Werner] > > know and undersatnd " my " experience > > better than I do? > > > > Arvind, sorry, > > It wasn't my intention to remove you from the list of enlightened > members of this forum. I simply haven't realized that you wrote of > your own experiences. Words are not radiant ... > > Werner > I respect your nice 'sentiments', Werner - And, I am greatly " touched " that you care so much for my 'status' on this forum You seem like a very good friend indeed. But, I don't see in my self any great interest in being known as " enlightened " on this forum. In my message***** that you replied earlier, my emphasis is to convey that I have found the concept/phenomenon of " realization " / " enlightenment " " illusory " . That is what I mean by my statement: ....most importantly, it has " meant to me " that even the phenomenon of " realization " is just an illusion as nothing real changes in the Seer. and, by quoting from Ramana as: - anything that " happens " is NOT the REAL thing! - anything that has a 'beginning' should also have an 'end'! --- ***** And, this is state that I have indeed found effortless, natural and always available. But, most importantly, it has " meant to me " that even the phenomenon of " realization " is just an illusion as nothing real changes in the Seer. I have noticed that I remain same throughout all stages and through the Samadhi, meditation, illusion, suffering and " realization " ... I have seen that " trick " is merely to see the Seer in place of 'what is seen', to see 'who is meditating' in place of seeing the 'visions' that meditation or inquiry might bring. The trick is Abide as the Meditator, as the Seer, as the Thinker. The trick is to abide as Who I AM. I have seen that seeing the Blank, Emptiness, Nothingness, expansive Consciousness is just a fun game. But, any time, I look at the " seer " , Abide as the Seer - it is always Same, Unchanged and it is not 'defined' even by 'emptiness'. Yes, it is certainly not empty, not a naught, not a zero... I have seen that phenomenon like sleep, waking, dream, 'samadhi', 'meditation', 'thinking', 'illusion', suffering, 'liberation' has absolutely no effect on it. It remains as it is or, or more accurately stated as: I AM THAT I AM ---- Ramana further says: - anything that " happens " is NOT the REAL thing! - anything that has a 'beginning' should also have an 'end'! .... But, anyway thank for taking care of " my " " enlightenment " , Werner - BTW... I am really interested in hearing your answers to the questions I asked you. I didn't ask them for the purpose of attack, defense or retaliation. Those are the real questions that I I am really interested in hearing your answers to: Werner: > > There is no seer which one can abide as. Because there is also > no 'awareness itself' - that's all nonsense. Maybe Ramana's orgamism > was shedding out much more endorphine than the organisms of other > people and so he confused his ideas to be the origin of feeling that > bliss. I have no problems to imagine that Ramana just has been a > representant of endocrinal disorder. > > I remmember that David Godman wrote that many many seekers did that > Ramana inquiry stuff and some for more than 30 year and no one ever > succeeded. > > Werner Ac: What about " you " Werner? What did " you " " succeed " in? How did you " change " through your listening of JK and all things " spiritual " ? What " you " have now that you didn't have before? What 'you don't have now' that you had before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > BTW... Werner, I didn't say what I said > > > because 'Ramana said so' I said it > > > because it tallys with my OWN > > > expereince! > > > > > > Do you want to say that You [Werner] > > > know and undersatnd " my " experience > > > better than I do? > > > > > > > Arvind, sorry, > > > > It wasn't my intention to remove you from the list of enlightened > > members of this forum. I simply haven't realized that you wrote of > > your own experiences. Words are not radiant ... > > > > Werner > > > > > I respect your nice 'sentiments', Werner - > > And, I am greatly " touched " that you care so > much for my 'status' on this forum You seem > like a very good friend indeed. > You are welcome, Arvind, I just contacted you to refresh our friendship > > But, I don't see in my self any great interest in > being known as " enlightened " on this forum. Seems you need some rebuffs maybe then this interest would get initiated > > In my message***** that you replied earlier, > my emphasis is to convey that I have found > the concept/phenomenon of " realization " > / " enlightenment " " illusory " . > > That is what I mean by my statement: > > > ...most importantly, it has " meant to me " that even the > phenomenon of " realization " is just an illusion as > nothing real changes in the Seer. > > > > and, by quoting from Ramana as: > > - anything that " happens " is NOT the REAL thing! > > - anything that has a 'beginning' should also have an 'end'! > > I know this your attitude since longer, Arvind. Have a good time ... Werner > > > > --- > > ***** > > And, this is state that I have indeed found effortless, > natural and always available. But, most importantly, > it has " meant to me " that even the phenomenon > of " realization " is just an illusion as nothing real > changes in the Seer. > > > I have noticed that I remain same throughout all > stages and through the Samadhi, meditation, illusion, > suffering and " realization " ... > > > I have seen that " trick " is merely to see the Seer > in place of 'what is seen', to see 'who is meditating' > in place of seeing the 'visions' that meditation or > inquiry might bring. The trick is Abide as the Meditator, > as the Seer, as the Thinker. The trick is to abide as > Who I AM. > > > I have seen that seeing the Blank, Emptiness, Nothingness, > expansive Consciousness is just a fun game. But, any time, > I look at the " seer " , Abide as the Seer - it is always > Same, Unchanged and it is not 'defined' even by > 'emptiness'. Yes, it is certainly not empty, not > a naught, not a zero... > > > I have seen that phenomenon like sleep, > waking, dream, 'samadhi', 'meditation', > 'thinking', 'illusion', suffering, > 'liberation' has absolutely no effect > on it. It remains as it is or, or > more accurately stated as: > > > > I AM THAT I AM > > ---- > > > Ramana further says: > > - anything that " happens " is NOT > the REAL thing! > > - anything that has a 'beginning' > should also have an 'end'! > > ... > > > > But, anyway thank for taking care of " my " > " enlightenment " , Werner - > > > BTW... I am really interested in hearing your > answers to the questions I asked you. I didn't > ask them for the purpose of attack, defense or > retaliation. Those are the real questions that > I I am really interested in hearing your answers > to: > > > > > Werner: > > > > > There is no seer which one can abide as. Because there is also > > no 'awareness itself' - that's all nonsense. Maybe Ramana's orgamism > > was shedding out much more endorphine than the organisms of other > > people and so he confused his ideas to be the origin of feeling > that > > bliss. I have no problems to imagine that Ramana just has been a > > representant of endocrinal disorder. > > > > I remmember that David Godman wrote that many many seekers did that > > Ramana inquiry stuff and some for more than 30 year and no one ever > > succeeded. > > > > Werner > > > > Ac: > > What about " you " Werner? > > What did " you " " succeed " in? > > How did you " change " through your > listening of JK and all things " spiritual " ? > > What " you " have now that you didn't > have before? > > What 'you don't have now' that you > had before? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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