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Fwd: Tolle, the gap and The Fear / Werner.

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[...]

 

 

>

> There is no seer which one can abide as. Because there is also

> no 'awareness itself' - that's all nonsense. Maybe Ramana's orgamism

> was shedding out much more endorphine than the organisms of other

> people and so he confused his ideas to be the origin of feeling

that

> bliss. I have no problems to imagine that Ramana just has been a

> representant of endocrinal disorder.

>

> I remmember that David Godman wrote that many many seekers did that

> Ramana inquiry stuff and some for more than 30 year and no one ever

> succeeded.

>

> Werner

 

 

What about " you " Werner?

 

What did " you " " succeed " in?

 

How did you " change " through your

listening of JK and all things " spiritual " ?

 

What " you " have now that you didn't

have before?

 

What 'you don't have now' that you

had before?

 

 

 

BTW... Werner, I didn't say what I said

because 'Ramana said so' I said it

because it tallys with my OWN

expereince!

 

Do you want to say that You [Werner]

know and undersatnd " my " experience

better than I do?

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Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming "

<adithya_comming wrote:

>

> [...]

>

>

> >

> > There is no seer which one can abide as. Because there is also

> > no 'awareness itself' - that's all nonsense. Maybe Ramana's

orgamism

> > was shedding out much more endorphine than the organisms of other

> > people and so he confused his ideas to be the origin of feeling

> that

> > bliss. I have no problems to imagine that Ramana just has been a

> > representant of endocrinal disorder.

> >

> > I remmember that David Godman wrote that many many seekers did

that

> > Ramana inquiry stuff and some for more than 30 year and no one

ever

> > succeeded.

> >

> > Werner

>

>

> What about " you " Werner?

>

> What did " you " " succeed " in?

>

> How did you " change " through your

> listening of JK and all things " spiritual " ?

>

> What " you " have now that you didn't

> have before?

>

> What 'you don't have now' that you

> had before?

>

>

>

> BTW... Werner, I didn't say what I said

> because 'Ramana said so' I said it

> because it tallys with my OWN

> expereince!

>

> Do you want to say that You [Werner]

> know and undersatnd " my " experience

> better than I do?

>

 

Arvind, sorry,

 

It wasn't my intention to remove you from the list of enlightened

members of this forum. I simply haven't realized that you wrote of

your own experiences. Words are not radiant ...

 

Werner

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Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming "

> <adithya_comming@> wrote:

> >

> > [...]

> >

> > BTW... Werner, I didn't say what I said

> > because 'Ramana said so' I said it

> > because it tallys with my OWN

> > expereince!

> >

> > Do you want to say that You [Werner]

> > know and undersatnd " my " experience

> > better than I do?

> >

>

> Arvind, sorry,

>

> It wasn't my intention to remove you from the list of enlightened

> members of this forum. I simply haven't realized that you wrote of

> your own experiences. Words are not radiant ...

>

> Werner

>

 

 

I respect your nice 'sentiments', Werner -:)

 

And, I am greatly " touched " that you care so

much for my 'status' on this forum :) You seem

like a very good friend indeed.

 

 

But, I don't see in my self any great interest in

being known as " enlightened " on this forum.

 

In my message***** that you replied earlier,

my emphasis is to convey that I have found

the concept/phenomenon of " realization "

/ " enlightenment " " illusory " .

 

That is what I mean by my statement:

 

 

....most importantly, it has " meant to me " that even the

phenomenon of " realization " is just an illusion as

nothing real changes in the Seer.

 

 

 

and, by quoting from Ramana as:

 

- anything that " happens " is NOT the REAL thing!

 

- anything that has a 'beginning' should also have an 'end'!

 

 

 

 

 

 

---

 

*****

 

And, this is state that I have indeed found effortless,

natural and always available. But, most importantly,

it has " meant to me " that even the phenomenon

of " realization " is just an illusion as nothing real

changes in the Seer.

 

 

I have noticed that I remain same throughout all

stages and through the Samadhi, meditation, illusion,

suffering and " realization " ...

 

 

I have seen that " trick " is merely to see the Seer

in place of 'what is seen', to see 'who is meditating'

in place of seeing the 'visions' that meditation or

inquiry might bring. The trick is Abide as the Meditator,

as the Seer, as the Thinker. The trick is to abide as

Who I AM.

 

 

I have seen that seeing the Blank, Emptiness, Nothingness,

expansive Consciousness is just a fun game. But, any time,

I look at the " seer " , Abide as the Seer - it is always

Same, Unchanged and it is not 'defined' even by

'emptiness'. Yes, it is certainly not empty, not

a naught, not a zero...

 

 

I have seen that phenomenon like sleep,

waking, dream, 'samadhi', 'meditation',

'thinking', 'illusion', suffering,

'liberation' has absolutely no effect

on it. It remains as it is or, or

more accurately stated as:

 

 

 

I AM THAT I AM

 

----

 

 

Ramana further says:

 

- anything that " happens " is NOT

the REAL thing!

 

- anything that has a 'beginning'

should also have an 'end'!

 

....

 

 

 

But, anyway thank for taking care of " my "

" enlightenment " , Werner -:)

 

 

BTW... I am really interested in hearing your

answers to the questions I asked you. I didn't

ask them for the purpose of attack, defense or

retaliation. Those are the real questions that

I I am really interested in hearing your answers

to:

 

 

 

 

Werner:

 

>

> There is no seer which one can abide as. Because there is also

> no 'awareness itself' - that's all nonsense. Maybe Ramana's orgamism

> was shedding out much more endorphine than the organisms of other

> people and so he confused his ideas to be the origin of feeling

that

> bliss. I have no problems to imagine that Ramana just has been a

> representant of endocrinal disorder.

>

> I remmember that David Godman wrote that many many seekers did that

> Ramana inquiry stuff and some for more than 30 year and no one ever

> succeeded.

>

> Werner

 

 

 

Ac:

 

What about " you " Werner?

 

What did " you " " succeed " in?

 

How did you " change " through your

listening of JK and all things " spiritual " ?

 

What " you " have now that you didn't

have before?

 

What 'you don't have now' that you

had before?

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Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming "

<adithya_comming wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming "

> > <adithya_comming@> wrote:

> > >

> > > [...]

> > >

> > > BTW... Werner, I didn't say what I said

> > > because 'Ramana said so' I said it

> > > because it tallys with my OWN

> > > expereince!

> > >

> > > Do you want to say that You [Werner]

> > > know and undersatnd " my " experience

> > > better than I do?

> > >

> >

> > Arvind, sorry,

> >

> > It wasn't my intention to remove you from the list of enlightened

> > members of this forum. I simply haven't realized that you wrote

of

> > your own experiences. Words are not radiant ...

> >

> > Werner

> >

>

>

> I respect your nice 'sentiments', Werner -:)

>

> And, I am greatly " touched " that you care so

> much for my 'status' on this forum :) You seem

> like a very good friend indeed.

>

 

You are welcome, Arvind,

I just contacted you to refresh our friendship :)

 

>

> But, I don't see in my self any great interest in

> being known as " enlightened " on this forum.

 

Seems you need some rebuffs maybe then this interest would get

initiated :)

 

>

> In my message***** that you replied earlier,

> my emphasis is to convey that I have found

> the concept/phenomenon of " realization "

> / " enlightenment " " illusory " .

>

> That is what I mean by my statement:

>

>

> ...most importantly, it has " meant to me " that even the

> phenomenon of " realization " is just an illusion as

> nothing real changes in the Seer.

>

>

>

> and, by quoting from Ramana as:

>

> - anything that " happens " is NOT the REAL thing!

>

> - anything that has a 'beginning' should also have an 'end'!

>

>

 

I know this your attitude since longer, Arvind.

Have a good time ...

 

Werner

 

 

>

>

>

> ---

>

> *****

>

> And, this is state that I have indeed found effortless,

> natural and always available. But, most importantly,

> it has " meant to me " that even the phenomenon

> of " realization " is just an illusion as nothing real

> changes in the Seer.

>

>

> I have noticed that I remain same throughout all

> stages and through the Samadhi, meditation, illusion,

> suffering and " realization " ...

>

>

> I have seen that " trick " is merely to see the Seer

> in place of 'what is seen', to see 'who is meditating'

> in place of seeing the 'visions' that meditation or

> inquiry might bring. The trick is Abide as the Meditator,

> as the Seer, as the Thinker. The trick is to abide as

> Who I AM.

>

>

> I have seen that seeing the Blank, Emptiness, Nothingness,

> expansive Consciousness is just a fun game. But, any time,

> I look at the " seer " , Abide as the Seer - it is always

> Same, Unchanged and it is not 'defined' even by

> 'emptiness'. Yes, it is certainly not empty, not

> a naught, not a zero...

>

>

> I have seen that phenomenon like sleep,

> waking, dream, 'samadhi', 'meditation',

> 'thinking', 'illusion', suffering,

> 'liberation' has absolutely no effect

> on it. It remains as it is or, or

> more accurately stated as:

>

>

>

> I AM THAT I AM

>

> ----

>

>

> Ramana further says:

>

> - anything that " happens " is NOT

> the REAL thing!

>

> - anything that has a 'beginning'

> should also have an 'end'!

>

> ...

>

>

>

> But, anyway thank for taking care of " my "

> " enlightenment " , Werner -:)

>

>

> BTW... I am really interested in hearing your

> answers to the questions I asked you. I didn't

> ask them for the purpose of attack, defense or

> retaliation. Those are the real questions that

> I I am really interested in hearing your answers

> to:

>

>

>

>

> Werner:

>

> >

> > There is no seer which one can abide as. Because there is also

> > no 'awareness itself' - that's all nonsense. Maybe Ramana's

orgamism

> > was shedding out much more endorphine than the organisms of other

> > people and so he confused his ideas to be the origin of feeling

> that

> > bliss. I have no problems to imagine that Ramana just has been a

> > representant of endocrinal disorder.

> >

> > I remmember that David Godman wrote that many many seekers did

that

> > Ramana inquiry stuff and some for more than 30 year and no one

ever

> > succeeded.

> >

> > Werner

>

>

>

> Ac:

>

> What about " you " Werner?

>

> What did " you " " succeed " in?

>

> How did you " change " through your

> listening of JK and all things " spiritual " ?

>

> What " you " have now that you didn't

> have before?

>

> What 'you don't have now' that you

> had before?

>

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