Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Nisargadatta said: " I am concerned with only one fact. Here I was in my wholeness, not even aware of my awareness, then suddenly this consciousness sprang up. How did it come about? That is the question which needs investigating. " This is the question I am currently investigating, but I'm not clear on what he means by consciousness? Is he talking about " I-am-ness " consciousness, or Brahma consciousness? What is the difference? Nisargadatta said a ripened guru is beyond even Brahma consciousness. I read that Brahma was the " first born " , born from a lotus, and then Bramha climbed down the lotus stem into the water to find out who he is. All I want to do at this stage is understand this. I understand that awareness makes consciousness possible, but it also requires " food " , some body. Does that mean everything is conscious ( to some degree)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > Nisargadatta said: > > " I am concerned with only one fact. Here I was in my wholeness, not > even aware of my awareness, then suddenly this consciousness sprang > up. How did it come about? That is the question which needs > investigating. " > > This is the question I am currently investigating, but I'm not clear > on what he means by consciousness? Is he talking about " I-am-ness " > consciousness, or Brahma consciousness? What is the difference? > > Nisargadatta said a ripened guru is beyond even Brahma consciousness. > > I read that Brahma was the " first born " , born from a lotus, and then > Bramha climbed down the lotus stem into the water to find out who he > is. All I want to do at this stage is understand this. > > I understand that awareness makes consciousness possible, but it > also requires " food " , some body. Does that mean everything is > conscious ( to some degree)? > Very simple, just don't believe Niz. Forget that awarensess stuff. If it is given to you you will encounter that funny thing or you won't. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " > <jasondedonno@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta said: > > > > " I am concerned with only one fact. Here I was in my wholeness, not > > even aware of my awareness, then suddenly this consciousness sprang > > up. How did it come about? That is the question which needs > > investigating. " > > > > This is the question I am currently investigating, but I'm not > clear > > on what he means by consciousness? Is he talking about " I-am- ness " > > consciousness, or Brahma consciousness? What is the difference? > > > > Nisargadatta said a ripened guru is beyond even Brahma > consciousness. > > > > I read that Brahma was the " first born " , born from a lotus, and > then > > Bramha climbed down the lotus stem into the water to find out who > he > > is. All I want to do at this stage is understand this. > > > > I understand that awareness makes consciousness possible, but it > > also requires " food " , some body. Does that mean everything is > > conscious ( to some degree)? > > > > > Very simple, just don't believe Niz. > > Forget that awarensess stuff. If it is given to you you will > encounter that funny thing or you won't. > > Werner > Ok, I understand where you are coming from. But think this way. Some people won't understand - instead they may label you some a weirdo, or " new age " freak and say you are entitled to your beliefs but you unless you can prove to me that what your saying is true I don't want to know. So how do you reach that person if you can't come down to his/her level? I can't come to this stateless state alone, I need to know how to bring others here, such as scientists and philosphers, and other thinkers. If I can't do that I'll stay where I am, cramped into this small body. I was like that doubtful, scientifically minded person, until I read Nisargadatta. It was his explanations that made sense to me. Before that, I had read plenty of Zen stories and Zen Koans, but they didn't work for me. I used to even joke about it. Once, I used to question this Buddhist and he always replied with mysterious answers and a smile, and it didn't look right to me. That's fine for him, I thought, but where's the love and concern for others? All I wanted was some help in understanding a few things, some humouring. For 10 years I have read and re-read Nisargadatta's texts, and I said different things to different people. This was one of the things that so fascinated me. I know he gave appropriate advice to people. Nis said that it's ok to investigate things, so long as you do it whole heartedly. Nis also said... " I am concerned with only one fact. Here I was in my wholeness, not even aware of my awareness, then suddenly this consciousness sprang up. How did it come about? That is the question which needs investigating. " This question has been driving me crazy for the last few days. I've thought, meditated, and read about creation in the Srimad- Bhagavatam. It's like a fire in my mind. Peace Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 <jasondedonno wrote: > > Nisargadatta said: > > " I am concerned with only one fact. Here I was in my wholeness, not > even aware of my awareness, then suddenly this consciousness sprang > up. How did it come about? That is the question which needs > investigating. " > > This is the question I am currently investigating, but I'm not clear > on what he means by consciousness? Is he talking about " I-am-ness " > consciousness, or Brahma consciousness? What is the difference? > -your awareness kept on " Awareness " itself this creats a 'witness' stance.. <http://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/> click on 1.6 > Nisargadatta said a ripened guru is beyond even Brahma consciousness. > > I read that Brahma was the " first born " , born from a lotus, and then > Bramha climbed down the lotus stem into the water to find out who he > is. All I want to do at this stage is understand this. > > I understand that awareness makes consciousness possible, but it Niz used the terms Awareness and Consciousness interchangeably > also requires " food " , some body. Does that mean everything is > conscious ( to some degree)? > Era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " > > <jasondedonno@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta said: > > > > > > " I am concerned with only one fact. Here I was in my wholeness, > not > > > even aware of my awareness, then suddenly this consciousness > sprang > > > up. How did it come about? That is the question which needs > > > investigating. " > > > > > > This is the question I am currently investigating, but I'm not > > clear > > > on what he means by consciousness? Is he talking about " I-am- > ness " > > > consciousness, or Brahma consciousness? What is the difference? > > > > > > Nisargadatta said a ripened guru is beyond even Brahma > > consciousness. > > > > > > I read that Brahma was the " first born " , born from a lotus, and > > then > > > Bramha climbed down the lotus stem into the water to find out > who > > he > > > is. All I want to do at this stage is understand this. > > > > > > I understand that awareness makes consciousness possible, but it > > > also requires " food " , some body. Does that mean everything is > > > conscious ( to some degree)? > > > > > > > > > Very simple, just don't believe Niz. > > > > Forget that awarensess stuff. If it is given to you you will > > encounter that funny thing or you won't. > > > > Werner > > > > Ok, I understand where you are coming from. But think this way. Some > people won't understand - instead they may label you some a weirdo, > or " new age " freak and say you are entitled to your beliefs but you > unless you can prove to me that what your saying is true I don't > want to know. So how do you reach that person if you can't come down > to his/her level? I can't come to this stateless state alone, I need > to know how to bring others here, such as scientists and > philosphers, and other thinkers. If I can't do that I'll stay where > I am, cramped into this small body. > > I was like that doubtful, scientifically minded person, until I read > Nisargadatta. It was his explanations that made sense to me. Before > that, I had read plenty of Zen stories and Zen Koans, but they > didn't work for me. I used to even joke about it. Once, I used to > question this Buddhist and he always replied with mysterious answers > and a smile, and it didn't look right to me. That's fine for him, I > thought, but where's the love and concern for others? All I wanted > was some help in understanding a few things, some humouring. > > For 10 years I have read and re-read Nisargadatta's texts, and I > said different things to different people. This was one of the > things that so fascinated me. I know he gave appropriate advice to > people. > > Nis said that it's ok to investigate things, so long as you do it > whole heartedly. > > Nis also said... > > " I am concerned with only one fact. Here I was in my wholeness, not > even aware of my awareness, then suddenly this consciousness sprang > up. How did it come about? That is the question which needs > investigating. " > > This question has been driving me crazy for the last few days. I've > thought, meditated, and read about creation in the Srimad- > Bhagavatam. It's like a fire in my mind. > > Peace > Jason > ....and that question is 'your' adventure of life, of living, of being lived in and as " Jason " . Have fun, enjoy, weep, shout to the moon, break your own heart, again and again in the beauty and horror of being alive. YIL, Ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 > ...and that question is 'your' adventure of life, of living, of > being lived in and as " Jason " . > > Have fun, enjoy, weep, shout to the moon, break your own heart, > again and again in the beauty and horror of being alive. > > YIL, > Ana > Well, why did I get cramped into this body anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > Nisargadatta said: > > " I am concerned with only one fact. Here I was in my wholeness, not > even aware of my awareness, then suddenly this consciousness sprang > up. How did it come about? That is the question which needs > investigating. " > > This is the question I am currently investigating, but I'm not clear > on what he means by consciousness? Is he talking about " I-am-ness " > consciousness, or Brahma consciousness? What is the difference? > > Nisargadatta said a ripened guru is beyond even Brahma consciousness. > > I read that Brahma was the " first born " , born from a lotus, and then > Bramha climbed down the lotus stem into the water to find out who he > is. All I want to do at this stage is understand this. > > I understand that awareness makes consciousness possible, but it > also requires " food " , some body. Does that mean everything is > conscious ( to some degree)? > perhaps: the consciousness of a tree is being a tree with all the attributes of tree-ness. ;-) however, it takes another aspect of being a tree to see this. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > > ...and that question is 'your' adventure of life, of living, of > > being lived in and as " Jason " . > > > > Have fun, enjoy, weep, shout to the moon, break your own heart, > > again and again in the beauty and horror of being alive. > > > > YIL, > > Ana > > > > Well, why did I get cramped into this body anyway? because " you " believe that you are exactly this body.... now...that you get slowly awareness/consciousness of the energy by which " you " got this believe.... that this energy isn't limited by the imaginary individuality of Jason this believe will end.....one day.......just like dreams during sleep end..... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 > because " you " believe that you are exactly this body.... > > now...that you get slowly awareness/consciousness of the energy by > which " you " got this believe.... Ok, but so do many millions of others. Many others would not even question the belief. Does the same apply to them? How could awareness get itself into this predicament? And what about the mentally ill? What about beings that are not capable of realising, like chimpanzees in a zoo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > > because " you " believe that you are exactly this body.... > > > > now...that you get slowly awareness/consciousness of the energy by > > which " you " got this believe.... > > > Ok, but so do many millions of others. Many others would not even > question the belief. Does the same apply to them? How could awareness > get itself into this predicament? And what about the mentally ill? > What about beings that are not capable of realising, like chimpanzees > in a zoo? there are no others.... as long you are living in this your " believe-zoo " ....there are also all this others appearing.... Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno@> > wrote: > > > > > because " you " believe that you are exactly this body.... > > > > > > now...that you get slowly awareness/consciousness of the energy by > > > which " you " got this believe.... > > > > > > Ok, but so do many millions of others. Many others would not even > > question the belief. Does the same apply to them? How could awareness > > get itself into this predicament? And what about the mentally ill? > > What about beings that are not capable of realising, like chimpanzees > > in a zoo? > > > there are no others.... > > as long you are living in this your " believe-zoo " ....there are also all > this others appearing.... > > Marc > > > ................kinda like ............in your dream last night? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 --- jasondedonno <jasondedonno wrote: > Nisargadatta said: > > " I am concerned with only one fact. Here I was in my wholeness, not > even aware of my awareness, then suddenly this consciousness sprang > up. How did it come about? That is the question which needs > investigating. " > > This is the question I am currently investigating, but I'm not clear > on what he means by consciousness? Is he talking about " I-am-ness " > consciousness, or Brahma consciousness? What is the difference? > > Nisargadatta said a ripened guru is beyond even Brahma consciousness. > > I read that Brahma was the " first born " , born from a lotus, and then > Bramha climbed down the lotus stem into the water to find out who he > is. All I want to do at this stage is understand this. > > I understand that awareness makes consciousness possible, but it > also requires " food " , some body. Does that mean everything is > conscious ( to some degree)? > You seem to be struggling to sort the *ideas* out. But that is of little value, IMO. And " Brahma consciousness " ... what is that? Such terms from ancient texts... of what use? Do you know what " consciousness " really is? If not, why even think about " Brahma consciousness " ? One moment of really observing the movement of consciousness in " the lab " of actual experience... reveals more than words can ever convey. Forget the words. Just go into it! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 I am concerned with only one fact. Here I was in my wholeness, not even aware of my awareness, then suddenly this consciousness sprang up. How did it come about? That is the question which needs investigating. " When I read this statement from Maharaj, I feel the words in my heart and I ask my heart what does this mean? Any meaning beyond the level of heart is meaningless for me. What resonates in my heart is Wholeness in this instance refers to the wholeness of the Absolute, Parabrahman, because it is so ultimately nondual it has no awareness of Itself ie, the Nirvana state. Consciousness arising from THAT is referring to I AM consciousness or I AM ness that arises from food essence taken into our " food body " . As his guru taught we must investigate and abide in our I AM ness and ultimately this state will be transcended into the stateless State beyond the beyond, Parabrahman. This is a level beyond beyond all concepts of deities etc. It is just IS. Beyond I AM ness. Beyond even THAT! Wordless, thoughtless, Being beyond Beingness. Hmmm...... Peace 'n Light, Peter On 7/11/06, jasondedonno <jasondedonno wrote: > > Nisargadatta <Nisargadatta%40>, > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr > > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta <Nisargadatta%40>, > " jasondedonno " > > <jasondedonno@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta said: > > > > > > " I am concerned with only one fact. Here I was in my wholeness, > not > > > even aware of my awareness, then suddenly this consciousness > sprang > > > up. How did it come about? That is the question which needs > > > investigating. " > > > > > > This is the question I am currently investigating, but I'm not > > clear > > > on what he means by consciousness? Is he talking about " I-am- > ness " > > > consciousness, or Brahma consciousness? What is the difference? > > > > > > Nisargadatta said a ripened guru is beyond even Brahma > > consciousness. > > > > > > I read that Brahma was the " first born " , born from a lotus, and > > then > > > Bramha climbed down the lotus stem into the water to find out > who > > he > > > is. All I want to do at this stage is understand this. > > > > > > I understand that awareness makes consciousness possible, but it > > > also requires " food " , some body. Does that mean everything is > > > conscious ( to some degree)? > > > > > > > > > Very simple, just don't believe Niz. > > > > Forget that awarensess stuff. If it is given to you you will > > encounter that funny thing or you won't. > > > > Werner > > > > Ok, I understand where you are coming from. But think this way. Some > people won't understand - instead they may label you some a weirdo, > or " new age " freak and say you are entitled to your beliefs but you > unless you can prove to me that what your saying is true I don't > want to know. So how do you reach that person if you can't come down > to his/her level? I can't come to this stateless state alone, I need > to know how to bring others here, such as scientists and > philosphers, and other thinkers. If I can't do that I'll stay where > I am, cramped into this small body. > > I was like that doubtful, scientifically minded person, until I read > Nisargadatta. It was his explanations that made sense to me. Before > that, I had read plenty of Zen stories and Zen Koans, but they > didn't work for me. I used to even joke about it. Once, I used to > question this Buddhist and he always replied with mysterious answers > and a smile, and it didn't look right to me. That's fine for him, I > thought, but where's the love and concern for others? All I wanted > was some help in understanding a few things, some humouring. > > For 10 years I have read and re-read Nisargadatta's texts, and I > said different things to different people. This was one of the > things that so fascinated me. I know he gave appropriate advice to > people. > > Nis said that it's ok to investigate things, so long as you do it > whole heartedly. > > Nis also said... > > > " I am concerned with only one fact. Here I was in my wholeness, not > even aware of my awareness, then suddenly this consciousness sprang > up. How did it come about? That is the question which needs > investigating. " > > This question has been driving me crazy for the last few days. I've > thought, meditated, and read about creation in the Srimad- > Bhagavatam. It's like a fire in my mind. > > Peace > Jason > > > -- OM Hrim Namah Shivaya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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