Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 J: I'm beginnging to feel like a monkey in zoo myself. Is everyone here stateless, or are there a few imagined beings like me? P: No one here is stateless. Nis wasn't stateless. He just spoke of it, as prior to consciousness. Nis was an imagined being like you. He just accepted and enjoyed that transient state, and so do I. One can awaken from the dream of individuation, no one awakens from existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 > if you can truly see that you take yourself to be what you call an > imagined being...there is already a letting go... > > ..iietsa > Well, I heard it somewhere, from a good source, and while it convinces me it remains a belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 --- jasondedonno <jasondedonno wrote: > > if you can truly see that you take yourself to be what you call an > > imagined being...there is already a letting go... > > > > ..iietsa > > > > Well, I heard it somewhere, from a good source, and while it convinces > me it remains a belief. > Good! Don't settle for convincing arguments, ever. I has to be visceral. A real epiphany doesn't light up a bulb, it ripples through you. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > I'm beginnging to feel like a monkey in zoo myself. Is everyone here > stateless, or are there a few imagined beings like me? there is no aspect of your being existing apart from " being-aware. " even now. no matter how much you claim to have an imaginary existence of your own. no matter how many claims you make, no matter to what extent if feels to you that you exist on your own and as a self -- no matter how much you act and feel " as if " -- you can't make it be so. " resistance is futile " as the old saying goes. :-) even your resistance is *this* --- -- D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > > if you can truly see that you take yourself to be what you call an > > imagined being...there is already a letting go... > > > > ..iietsa > > > > Well, I heard it somewhere, from a good source, and while it convinces > me it remains a belief. to believe something, you have to hold it in mind. do you really hold anything in mind at all? or is that just a story we tell ourselves? and if so, you can answer this: what do I know first-hand, requiring and involving no belief and no mentation? -- D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 > to believe something, you have to hold it in mind. > > do you really hold anything in mind at all? > > or is that just a story we tell ourselves? > > and if so, you can answer this: > > what do I know first-hand, requiring and involving no belief and no > mentation? > > -- D. > Thanks. I know about that what is now. The knowingness. And I believe it is always there, in one form or another. Sometimes on waking I have remembered. But it seems to be very much associated with my senses. Without my senses how would I know it will be still there? This is where belief comes in for me. I have kept in mind for a long time the belief that I am an imaginery being - that's the same as believing that I am not the body. Even Nisargadatta said that you have to believe his words - at least for a short while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > > to believe something, you have to hold it in mind. > > > > do you really hold anything in mind at all? > > > > or is that just a story we tell ourselves? > > > > and if so, you can answer this: > > > > what do I know first-hand, requiring and involving no belief and no > > mentation? > > > > -- D. > > > Thanks. > > I know about that what is now. The knowingness. And I believe it is > always there, in one form or another. Sometimes on waking I have > remembered. But it seems to be very much associated with my senses. > Without my senses how would I know it will be still there? This is > where belief comes in for me. I have kept in mind for a long time > the belief that I am an imaginery being - that's the same as > believing that I am not the body. Even Nisargadatta said that you > have to believe his words - at least for a short while. His words are only words, and in that sense, no different from anyone else's words. Placed in a certain order, keying off certain feelings for you. So you remind yourself of the words, to try to have the feelings they cue off. Yet, the first instant of being-aware -- there is no word cue involved. It may be the instant you wake up, or the instant you fall asleep. Either way. The instant you are born, or the instant you die. Each moment, there is this instant where no recall has yet occurred. Is anything more needed? Is anything more every really added into this? Words may give the impression of something else added in, or senses may give that impression. Yet, is there really? -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 --- dan330033 <dan330033 wrote: > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno > wrote: > > > > > if you can truly see that you take yourself to be what you call an > > > imagined being...there is already a letting go... > > > > > > ..iietsa > > > > > > > Well, I heard it somewhere, from a good source, and while it convinces > > me it remains a belief. > > to believe something, you have to hold it in mind. > > do you really hold anything in mind at all? > > or is that just a story we tell ourselves? > > and if so, you can answer this: > > what do I know first-hand, requiring and involving no belief and no > mentation? and anything else is unreliable, untrustworthy... > > -- D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > > if you can truly see that you take yourself to be what you call an > > imagined being...there is already a letting go... > > > > ..iietsa > > > > Well, I heard it somewhere, from a good source, and while it convinces > me it remains a belief. > be the seeing that can can see that the beliefe convinces the " you " ... only watch...let the you and its belife be there...its none of your buisness... ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno@> > wrote: > > > > > if you can truly see that you take yourself to be what you call an > > > imagined being...there is already a letting go... > > > > > > ..iietsa > > > > > > > Well, I heard it somewhere, from a good source, and while it > convinces > > me it remains a belief. > > > be the seeing that can can see that the beliefe convinces the " you " ... > only watch...let the you and its belife be there...its none of your > buisness... > ...iietsa > Once again the proposed actions assume a psychological center to whom they could apply. This is the closed loop that is the entity itself. See that.......and the whole elaborate structure is weakened and begins to become translucent. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > if you can truly see that you take yourself to be what you call an > > > > imagined being...there is already a letting go... > > > > > > > > ..iietsa > > > > > > > > > > Well, I heard it somewhere, from a good source, and while it > > convinces > > > me it remains a belief. > > > > > be the seeing that can can see that the beliefe convinces the " you " ... > > only watch...let the you and its belife be there...its none of your > > buisness... > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > Once again the proposed actions assume a psychological center to whom > they could apply. > > This is the closed loop that is the entity itself. > > See that.......and the whole elaborate structure is weakened and > begins to become translucent. > > > toombaru > yes...only the seeing does not change...iietsa you say the same thing with other words....the apparent difference is in your mind only... " see that " " be the seeing " same same but different...all words are in the same mind im not accenting the mind...are you ? ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " > > <jasondedonno@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > if you can truly see that you take yourself to be what you > > call an > > > > > > imagined being...there is already a letting go... > > > > > > > > > > > > ..iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I heard it somewhere, from a good source, and while it > > > > convinces > > > > > me it remains a belief. > > > > > > > > > be the seeing that can can see that the beliefe convinces > > the " you " ... > > > > only watch...let the you and its belife be there...its none of > > your > > > > buisness... > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once again the proposed actions assume a psychological center to > > whom > > > they could apply. > > > > > > This is the closed loop that is the entity itself. > > > > > > See that.......and the whole elaborate structure is weakened and > > > begins to become translucent. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > yes...only the seeing does not change...iietsa > > you say the same thing with other words....the apparent difference > > is in your mind only... > > " see that " > > " be the seeing " > > same same but different...all words are in the same mind > > im not accenting the mind...are you ? > > ...iietsa > > > Only the mind would ask such a question. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " > > > <jasondedonno@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you can truly see that you take yourself to be what you > > > call an > > > > > > > imagined being...there is already a letting go... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ..iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I heard it somewhere, from a good source, and while it > > > > > convinces > > > > > > me it remains a belief. > > > > > > > > > > > be the seeing that can can see that the beliefe convinces > > > the " you " ... > > > > > only watch...let the you and its belife be there...its none of > > > your > > > > > buisness... > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once again the proposed actions assume a psychological center to > > > whom > > > > they could apply. > > > > > > > > This is the closed loop that is the entity itself. > > > > > > > > See that.......and the whole elaborate structure is weakened and > > > > begins to become translucent. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > yes...only the seeing does not change...iietsa > > > you say the same thing with other words....the apparent difference > > > is in your mind only... > > > " see that " > > > " be the seeing " > > > same same but different...all words are in the same mind > > > im not accenting the mind...are you ? > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > Only the mind would ask such a question. > > > toombaru > right on toombaru... and only the mind would answer such a question. ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " iietsa " <iietsa@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " > > > > <jasondedonno@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you can truly see that you take yourself to be what > you > > > > call an > > > > > > > > imagined being...there is already a letting go... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ..iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I heard it somewhere, from a good source, and > while it > > > > > > convinces > > > > > > > me it remains a belief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > be the seeing that can can see that the beliefe convinces > > > > the " you " ... > > > > > > only watch...let the you and its belife be there...its > none of > > > > your > > > > > > buisness... > > > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once again the proposed actions assume a psychological > center to > > > > whom > > > > > they could apply. > > > > > > > > > > This is the closed loop that is the entity itself. > > > > > > > > > > See that.......and the whole elaborate structure is weakened > and > > > > > begins to become translucent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > yes...only the seeing does not change...iietsa > > > > you say the same thing with other words....the apparent > difference > > > > is in your mind only... > > > > " see that " > > > > " be the seeing " > > > > same same but different...all words are in the same mind > > > > im not accenting the mind...are you ? > > > > ...iietsa > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only the mind would ask such a question. > > > > > > toombaru > > > right on toombaru... > and only the mind would answer such a question. > ...iietsa > Of course. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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