Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 On Jul 14, 2006, at 4:53 PM, Nisargadatta wrote: > > P: Frankly, Dan, I don't see much difference > > between what you do and the above. I had you > > pegged as a new advaitin. It seems to me that > > everything you write is aimed at discouraging > > folk from doing anything. I know this must be > > some kind of misunderstanding on my part. > > So please, in a few simple words tell me, what > > is the core of your message? > > > > Pete, the idiot. > > Hey Pete, > > Do you feel discouraged by what I've said, from doing anything? P: Not at all, Dan. I feel encouraged to contradict you. > > D: I'm not meaning to discourage you. P: Do you mean to discourage seekers, in general, from practice? Do you think only to understand is needed to realize? Do you think that doing doesn't foster understanding? Many times trials and failures are essential to understand an issue under investigation. > > > D: I don't have a message that is going to resolve all your > difficulties, > or anyone's, including mine. So if that is what you mean by a " core > message, " I guess I don't have one for you. P: Whether it'll solve any difficulties or not, are you trying to say a specific something, what is it? Do you know? > > -- D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5 wrote: > > > On Jul 14, 2006, at 4:53 PM, Nisargadatta wrote: > > > > P: Frankly, Dan, I don't see much difference > > > between what you do and the above. I had you > > > pegged as a new advaitin. It seems to me that > > > everything you write is aimed at discouraging > > > folk from doing anything. I know this must be > > > some kind of misunderstanding on my part. > > > So please, in a few simple words tell me, what > > > is the core of your message? > > > > > > Pete, the idiot. > > > > Hey Pete, > > > > Do you feel discouraged by what I've said, from doing anything? > > P: Not at all, Dan. I feel encouraged to contradict you. D: Great! So, I guess I'm not so discouraging after all. Life is good! > > D: I'm not meaning to discourage you. > > P: Do you mean to discourage seekers, in general, from practice? > Do you think only to understand is needed to realize? > Do you think that doing doesn't foster understanding? > Many times trials and failures are essential to understand an issue > under investigation. D: It's not formal practice that matters, in my experience, nor is it avoiding practice. My experience is that what matters is really wanting to resolve the contradiction that one is. Which means first being aware of contradiction. I've found others have said the same, but I'm not saying this because others have said it before me. It's just how it is for me. If it's another way for you, that's fine - I'm not trying to speak your experience for you. Have at it! Contradict away. > > D: I don't have a message that is going to resolve all your > > difficulties, > > or anyone's, including mine. So if that is what you mean by a " core > > message, " I guess I don't have one for you. > > P: Whether it'll solve any difficulties or not, are you trying to say a > specific something, what is it? Do you know? D: I am not trying to make a statement that can be taken out of context and applied by everyone in all situatios as some kind of ultimate truth statement or " core message. " That's just not what I'm up to. You really seem to want some kind of core message from me. Why? Aren't there enough core messages around for you as it is. Try Buddha's: all phenomena are mutually co-determining and co-arising. Or try Jesus's: I am the way, the truth, the life. Or try Lao Tzu: The way that can be delineated, isn't the way. Hey, I like that one a lot. I'm sure Niz had one or two also, try one of his. I don't feel a need to add another one. But since you brought up your interest in contradicting - have you found the place where contradicion dissolves, and paradox lives? -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 --- dan330033 <dan330033 wrote: > Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5 wrote: > > > > > > On Jul 14, 2006, at 4:53 PM, Nisargadatta wrote: > > > > > > P: Frankly, Dan, I don't see much difference > > > > between what you do and the above. I had you > > > > pegged as a new advaitin. It seems to me that > > > > everything you write is aimed at discouraging > > > > folk from doing anything. I know this must be > > > > some kind of misunderstanding on my part. > > > > So please, in a few simple words tell me, what > > > > is the core of your message? > > > > > > > > Pete, the idiot. > > > > > > Hey Pete, > > > > > > Do you feel discouraged by what I've said, from doing anything? > > > > P: Not at all, Dan. I feel encouraged to contradict you. > > D: Great! So, I guess I'm not so discouraging after all. Life is > good! > > > > D: I'm not meaning to discourage you. > > > > P: Do you mean to discourage seekers, in general, from practice? > > Do you think only to understand is needed to realize? > > Do you think that doing doesn't foster understanding? > > Many times trials and failures are essential to understand an issue > > under investigation. > > D: It's not formal practice that matters, in my experience, nor is > it avoiding practice. My experience is that what matters is really > wanting to resolve the contradiction that one is. Which means first > being aware of contradiction. I've found others have said the same, > but I'm not saying this because others have said it before me. It's > just how it is for me. If it's another way for you, that's fine - > I'm not trying to speak your experience for you. Have at it! > Contradict away. > > > > D: I don't have a message that is going to resolve all your > > > difficulties, > > > or anyone's, including mine. So if that is what you mean by > a " core > > > message, " I guess I don't have one for you. > > > > P: Whether it'll solve any difficulties or not, are you trying to > say a > > specific something, what is it? Do you know? > > D: I am not trying to make a statement that can be taken out of > context and applied by everyone in all situatios as some kind of > ultimate truth statement or " core message. " That's just not what I'm > up to. > > You really seem to want some kind of core message from me. Why? > Aren't there enough core messages around for you as it is. Try > Buddha's: all phenomena are mutually co-determining and co-arising. > Or try Jesus's: I am the way, the truth, the life. > Or try Lao Tzu: The way that can be delineated, isn't the way. > > Hey, I like that one a lot. > > I'm sure Niz had one or two also, try one of his. > > I don't feel a need to add another one. > > But since you brought up your interest in contradicting - have you > found the place where contradicion dissolves, and paradox lives? > > -- Dan " ...have you found the place where contradicion dissolves, and paradox lives? " I like that... as if by a subtle shift of interpretation what was seen as contradiction is seen as paradox... but more than just a shift of interpretation perhaps, as a grasping by mind is supplanted by an allowing to be... Of course there is no real " place " for that unless you say 'everywhere'... i.e. where paradox lives there is no " other place " . Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 On Jul 16, 2006, at 3:32 AM, Nisargadatta wrote: > But since you brought up your interest in contradicting - have you > found the place where contradicion dissolves, and paradox lives? > > -- Dan P: Yes, they dissolve like clouds dissolve to form again. A list needs this grating, and grinding of ideas made smother by friction like pebbles in a stream. Yours are getting smoother with age, but I'll keep knocking them till they shine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 --- Pete S <pedsie5 wrote: > > On Jul 16, 2006, at 3:32 AM, Nisargadatta wrote: > > > But since you brought up your interest in contradicting - have you > > found the place where contradicion dissolves, and paradox lives? > > > > -- Dan > > P: Yes, they dissolve like clouds dissolve to form again. > A list needs this grating, and grinding of ideas made > smother by friction like pebbles in a stream. Yours are > getting smoother with age, but I'll keep knocking them till > they shine. > and he yours.... no higher ground between the two of you in my view... both of whom I admire and love. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5 wrote: > > > On Jul 16, 2006, at 3:32 AM, Nisargadatta wrote: > > > But since you brought up your interest in contradicting - have you > > found the place where contradicion dissolves, and paradox lives? > > > > -- Dan > > P: Yes, they dissolve like clouds dissolve to form again. > A list needs this grating, and grinding of ideas made > smother by friction like pebbles in a stream. Yours are > getting smoother with age, but I'll keep knocking them till > they shine. and then send them to live with the fishes, and Luca Brazi! ;-) -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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