Guest guest Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > ? > > > > D: Human beings are caught in the illusion that there are individual > > body-minds that have some kind of great realization. > > > There are no human beings caught in an illusion....The conceptual me > arrises concurrently with the illusion. > > > > The characters in a dream are not caught in the dream. > > > > toombaru You can negate any noun in any sentence if you like, using the metaphor of a dream. Yet your negation must also be negated, by the same logic you are using. So, let's continue on with the negation: There are no characters in a dream, for you to speak of, nor a you which can know about dream characters. There is no dream which can be observed. -- D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 --- dan330033 <dan330033 wrote: > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > ? > > > > > > D: Human beings are caught in the illusion that there are individual > > > body-minds that have some kind of great realization. > > > > > > There are no human beings caught in an illusion....The conceptual me > > arrises concurrently with the illusion. > > > > > > > > The characters in a dream are not caught in the dream. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > You can negate any noun in any sentence if you like, using the > metaphor of a dream. Yet your negation must also be negated, by the > same logic you are using. > > So, let's continue on with the negation: > > There are no characters in a dream, for you to speak of, nor a you > which can know about dream characters. > > There is no dream which can be observed. > > -- D. > Wow... this is working up to be just the kind of dream... errr... not-a-dream that I... errr... not-I like! Bill PS: I'm serious... my dreams do not have characters etc. They are *very* abstract... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > ? > > > > > > D: Human beings are caught in the illusion that there are individual > > > body-minds that have some kind of great realization. > > > > > > There are no human beings caught in an illusion....The conceptual me > > arrises concurrently with the illusion. > > > > > > > > The characters in a dream are not caught in the dream. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > You can negate any noun in any sentence if you like, using the > metaphor of a dream. Yet your negation must also be negated, by the > same logic you are using. > > So, let's continue on with the negation: > > There are no characters in a dream, for you to speak of, nor a you > which can know about dream characters. > > There is no dream which can be observed. > > -- D. > Above you refer to human beings that are 'caught in the illusion' as if they are distinct entities. Accepting the theory that they are distinct entities that are caught in illusion, is it your believe that they can somehow excape their supposed condition? What I am proposing is that which you refer to as " human biengs " are nothing other then the confusion that results from misidentification. The conceptual me......is annihilated...not transformed or freed.... with the understanding. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > D: Human beings are caught in the illusion that there are individual > > > > body-minds that have some kind of great realization. > > > > > > > > > There are no human beings caught in an illusion....The conceptual me > > > arrises concurrently with the illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > The characters in a dream are not caught in the dream. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > You can negate any noun in any sentence if you like, using the > > metaphor of a dream. Yet your negation must also be negated, by the > > same logic you are using. > > > > So, let's continue on with the negation: > > > > There are no characters in a dream, for you to speak of, nor a you > > which can know about dream characters. > > > > There is no dream which can be observed. > > > > -- D. > > > > > > > Above you refer to human beings that are 'caught in the illusion' as > if they are distinct entities. I never said they were distinct entities. I guess in your dream, you are fighting against the other dream characters' illusions that there are distinct entities that they are referring to, when they speak in your dream to you. > Accepting the theory that they are distinct entities that are caught > in illusion, is it your believe that they can somehow excape their > supposed condition? I never said they were going to escape their condition. But I guess that inference occurred to you in your dream, where you help the other characters to recognize that they can't escape their supposed condition. > What I am proposing is that which you refer to as " human biengs " are > nothing other then the confusion that results from misidentification. How can there be misidentification, if there isn't any one separate who can misidentify? > The conceptual me......is annihilated...not transformed or freed.... > with the understanding. Ah, you are under the misconception that there exists a conceptual me which gets annihilated. So, in your dream, it can't be transformed or freed, but it can be annihilated. That's an interesting role that you have for a conceptual me in the dream space you inhabit. *Now* your objections make sense. Thanks for explaining! -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > D: Human beings are caught in the illusion that there are > individual > > > > > body-minds that have some kind of great realization. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no human beings caught in an illusion....The conceptual me > > > > arrises concurrently with the illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The characters in a dream are not caught in the dream. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > You can negate any noun in any sentence if you like, using the > > > metaphor of a dream. Yet your negation must also be negated, by the > > > same logic you are using. > > > > > > So, let's continue on with the negation: > > > > > > There are no characters in a dream, for you to speak of, nor a you > > > which can know about dream characters. > > > > > > There is no dream which can be observed. > > > > > > -- D. > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru: Above you refer to human beings that are 'caught in the illusion' as > > if they are distinct entities. Dan: I never said they were distinct entities. I guess in your dream, you > are fighting against the other dream characters' illusions that there > are distinct entities that they are referring to, when they speak in > your dream to you. Ok.....these are the words that came through you: D: Human beings are caught in the illusion that there are individual body-minds that have some kind of great realization. From that I infer that you mean that these human being things are caught in the illusion that there are individual-body minds. It is the contension here that the human being things are not caught in the confusion but are nothing other then the confusion itself. toombaru: Accepting the theory that they are distinct entities that are caught in illusion, is it your believe that they can somehow excape their supposed condition? > I never said they were going to escape their condition. But I guess > that inference occurred to you in your dream, where you help the other > characters to recognize that they can't escape their supposed condition. It is not I that is dreaming. There is a dream.....but no dreamer there of. toombaru: What I am proposing is that which you refer to as " human biengs " are nothing other then the confusion that results from misidentification. D: How can there be misidentification, if there isn't any one separate who can misidentify? It is consciousness itself that misidentifies. toombaru: The conceptual me......is annihilated...not transformed or freed.... with the understanding. D: Ah, you are under the misconception that there exists a conceptual me which gets annihilated. toombaru: In the sense that the night is annihilated when the sun comes up....or the wind is annihilated when it is still. D: So, in your dream, it can't be transformed or freed, but it can be annihilated. That's an interesting role that you have for a conceptual me in the dream space you inhabit. toombaru: As an identified entity......it is not my dream. As consciousness......it is who I am. D: *Now* your objections make sense. > > Thanks for explaining! > > -- Dan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Ok.....these are the words that came through you: > > > D: Human beings are caught in the illusion that there are > individual body-minds that have some kind of great realization. > > > From that I infer that you mean that these human being things are > caught in the illusion that there are individual-body minds. > > It is the contension here that the human being things are not caught > in the confusion but are nothing other then the confusion itself. D: Okay. My contention here in response to your contention there, is that the human beings aren't things, and that the confusion only appears when there is an attempt to hold onto order, as if a location for a separable consciousness had occurred, in which order could be held (even if that order be as " awareness itself " ). And here rises the question of whether there is a " there " apart from a " here. " If not, there may be no way for your contention to occur there and a contention of a different quality to appear here. But then, what would our converation be, with no contentions to hold or contrast? > toombaru: > Accepting the theory that they are distinct entities that are caught > in illusion, is it your believe that they can somehow excape their > supposed condition? > > > I never said they were going to escape their condition. But I guess > > that inference occurred to you in your dream, where you help the other > > characters to recognize that they can't escape their supposed condition. > It is not I that is dreaming. > > There is a dream.....but no dreamer there of. D: You apparently miss my point. By bringing in inferences that I hadn't conveyed, you brought in your own interests, your own concerns, the things you wanted to address. It doesn't matter if you decide you are going to eliminate the " I-word " from your speech. The " I " is there in the concerns brought into a conversation, in the foci addressed, in the way they are addressed. The " I " is the dream. It doesn't matter if you call the " I " ... " the dream. " It is the same thing. The perception of phenomena in relation. The " I " is just a word for how the relation is established, in reference to attraction and repulsion, for example. You are attracted to a computer and writing notes to people you haven't met. There is your " I " (and mine when I do that) ... and there is the " dream " -- you have to experience a computer and keyboard to do your typing (as do I). > What I am proposing is that which you refer to as " human biengs " are > nothing other then the confusion that results from misidentification. > > D: > > How can there be misidentification, if there isn't any one separate > who can misidentify? > > > > It is consciousness itself that misidentifies. D: When you say " consciousness itself " and attribute an action to it, such as " identifying " and " disidentifying " -- it is equivalent to establishing an " I. " You've just given it the name " consciousness itself. " The name given doesn't matter. It is the belief in a something that can do things, which is the " I " -- and it is the perception of events, experiences, perceptions, and qualities in relation that is the " I. " In other words, there is, by unconscious bias, a basis established for a relation between contrasted conditions and perceptions. It doesn't matter how that basis is labelled. It is the assumption of being to that attribution that establishes the " I " -- whether that quality of being is attributed to a " dream " or " consciousness itself " or " whop-bop-a-loo-bom " doesn't matter. " I " is established preverbally and preconceptually. *It isn't a specific concept or word to be eliminated*. It is how concepts can be apprehended as such, can be associated (as " time " as " experience " ) can be related to each other. > toombaru: > > The conceptual me......is annihilated...not transformed or freed.... > with the understanding. > > D: > > Ah, you are under the misconception that there exists a conceptual me > which gets annihilated. > > toombaru: > > In the sense that the night is annihilated when the sun comes up....or > the wind is annihilated when it is still. D: You are investing in a " before " and " after " when you say this. Anything that has a beginning, has an ending. If something (even if that be an awareness) begins when something else ends, that something will in turn end, and something else will begin. What doesn't end, doesn't begin. This unknown and unnamed " what " isn't troubled by something " in " it, like " an I concept. " There is no " in " it for such a thing to " be " -- in the first place. > D: > > So, in your dream, it can't be transformed or > freed, but it can be annihilated. That's an interesting role that you > have for a conceptual me in the dream space you inhabit. > > > toombaru: > > As an identified entity......it is not my dream. > > As consciousness......it is who I am. D: Ah, so to use your terms, you are " identifying " with consciousness? -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > Ok.....these are the words that came through you: > > > > > > D: Human beings are caught in the illusion that there are > > individual body-minds that have some kind of great realization. > > > > > > From that I infer that you mean that these human being things are > > caught in the illusion that there are individual-body minds. > > > > It is the contension here that the human being things are not caught > > in the confusion but are nothing other then the confusion itself. > > D: Okay. My contention here in response to your contention there, is > that the human beings aren't things, and that the confusion only > appears when there is an attempt to hold onto order, as if a location > for a separable consciousness had occurred, in which order could be > held (even if that order be as " awareness itself " ). > > And here rises the question of whether there is a " there " apart from a > " here. " > > If not, there may be no way for your contention to occur there and a > contention of a different quality to appear here. > > But then, what would our converation be, with no contentions to hold > or contrast? > > > toombaru: > > Accepting the theory that they are distinct entities that are caught > > in illusion, is it your believe that they can somehow excape their > > supposed condition? > > > > > > I never said they were going to escape their condition. But I guess > > > that inference occurred to you in your dream, where you help the other > > > characters to recognize that they can't escape their supposed > condition. > > > It is not I that is dreaming. > > > > There is a dream.....but no dreamer there of. > > D: You apparently miss my point. By bringing in inferences that I > hadn't conveyed, you brought in your own interests, your own concerns, > the things you wanted to address. It doesn't matter if you decide you > are going to eliminate the " I-word " from your speech. The " I " is there > in the concerns brought into a conversation, in the foci addressed, in > the way they are addressed. > > The " I " is the dream. It doesn't matter if you call the " I " ... " the > dream. " > > It is the same thing. > > The perception of phenomena in relation. > > The " I " is just a word for how the relation is established, in > reference to attraction and repulsion, for example. > > You are attracted to a computer and writing notes to people you > haven't met. There is your " I " (and mine when I do that) ... and > there is the " dream " -- you have to experience a computer and keyboard > to do your typing (as do I). > > > What I am proposing is that which you refer to as " human biengs " are > > nothing other then the confusion that results from misidentification. > > > > D: > > > > How can there be misidentification, if there isn't any one separate > > who can misidentify? > > > > > > > > It is consciousness itself that misidentifies. > > D: When you say " consciousness itself " and attribute an action to it, > such as " identifying " and " disidentifying " -- it is equivalent to > establishing an " I. " You've just given it the name " consciousness > itself. " The name given doesn't matter. It is the belief in a > something that can do things, which is the " I " -- and it is the > perception of events, experiences, perceptions, and qualities in > relation that is the " I. " > > In other words, there is, by unconscious bias, a basis established for > a relation between contrasted conditions and perceptions. > > It doesn't matter how that basis is labelled. It is the assumption of > being to that attribution that establishes the " I " -- whether that > quality of being is attributed to a " dream " or " consciousness itself " > or " whop-bop-a-loo-bom " doesn't matter. > > " I " is established preverbally and preconceptually. > > *It isn't a specific concept or word to be eliminated*. > > It is how concepts can be apprehended as such, can be associated (as > " time " as " experience " ) can be related to each other. > > > toombaru: > > > > The conceptual me......is annihilated...not transformed or freed.... > > with the understanding. > > > > D: > > > > Ah, you are under the misconception that there exists a conceptual me > > which gets annihilated. > > > > toombaru: > > > > In the sense that the night is annihilated when the sun comes up....or > > the wind is annihilated when it is still. > > D: You are investing in a " before " and " after " when you say this. > > Anything that has a beginning, has an ending. > > If something (even if that be an awareness) begins when something else > ends, that something will in turn end, and something else will begin. > > What doesn't end, doesn't begin. > > This unknown and unnamed " what " isn't troubled by something " in " it, > like " an I concept. " There is no " in " it for such a thing to " be " -- > in the first place. > > > D: > > > > So, in your dream, it can't be transformed or > > freed, but it can be annihilated. That's an interesting role that you > > have for a conceptual me in the dream space you inhabit. > > > > > > toombaru: > > > > As an identified entity......it is not my dream. > > > > As consciousness......it is who I am. > > D: Ah, so to use your terms, you are " identifying " with consciousness? > > -- Dan > I fear that we are at that strange impass where the conceptual entity realizes that conceptualization cannot cross its own borders. But this has been fun...eh? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 > I never said they were distinct entities. I guess in your dream, you > are fighting against the other dream characters' illusions that there > are distinct entities that they are referring to, when they speak in > your dream to you. > > > Accepting the theory that they are distinct entities that are caught > > in illusion, is it your believe that they can somehow excape their > > supposed condition? > > I never said they were going to escape their condition. But I guess > that inference occurred to you in your dream, where you help the other > characters to recognize that they can't escape their supposed condition. > > > What I am proposing is that which you refer to as " human biengs " are > > nothing other then the confusion that results from misidentification. > > How can there be misidentification, if there isn't any one separate > who can misidentify? > > > The conceptual me......is annihilated...not transformed or freed.... > > with the understanding. > > Ah, you are under the misconception that there exists a conceptual me > which gets annihilated. So, in your dream, it can't be transformed or > freed, but it can be annihilated. That's an interesting role that you > have for a conceptual me in the dream space you inhabit. > > *Now* your objections make sense. > > Thanks for explaining! > > -- Dan > Lot's of " I " s appearing now you've started arguing properly. But that's ok isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 In response to the question, " Why are you here? " : Like the man in the closet who was asked the same question by the jealous husband replied, " Hey, everybody's got to be somewhere " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > I fear that we are at that strange impass where the conceptual entity > realizes that conceptualization cannot cross its own borders. > > > > But this has been fun...eh? > > > > toombaru Sure, it's been grand. Not sure how you generated the idea of a conceptual entity that realizes something. But there's no telling what can occur in a dream, eh? -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > I fear that we are at that strange impass where the conceptual entity > > realizes that conceptualization cannot cross its own borders. > > > > > > > > But this has been fun...eh? > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Sure, it's been grand. > > Not sure how you generated the idea of a conceptual entity that > realizes something. But there's no telling what can occur in a dream, eh? > > -- Dan > This one tossed a monkey wrench into the well oiled advaita works. OK....aaaaaaaa let's see............ Within the dream.....there are characters....their actions are determined by everything that preceded them. They are the mechanisms through which that which is becomes self aware. ........an artifical overlap......out of which the identified entity emerges. This is the self-referential circularity...closed loop....that exists within the consensus conceptual overlay....this is the I-am-you-are. The curtain opens....and the zombie jamboree begins. This understanding.....can percolate through consciousness itself.....the ego remains but becomes translucent.....and the natural world of which Nisargadatta speaks becomes the extant reality. Lest our friend think that we are arguing......I assure him that I am anxiously awaiting another monkey wrench. :-0 toombarmonkeyu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I fear that we are at that strange impass where the conceptual entity > > > realizes that conceptualization cannot cross its own borders. > > > > > > > > > > > > But this has been fun...eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Sure, it's been grand. > > > > Not sure how you generated the idea of a conceptual entity that > > realizes something. But there's no telling what can occur in a > dream, eh? > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > This one tossed a monkey wrench into the well oiled advaita works. > > > OK....aaaaaaaa let's see............ > > > > Within the dream.....there are characters....their actions are > determined by everything that preceded them. > > They are the mechanisms through which that which is becomes self aware. > > .......an artifical overlap......out of which the identified entity > emerges. > > This is the self-referential circularity...closed loop....that exists > within the consensus conceptual overlay....this is the I-am-you-are. > > > The curtain opens....and the zombie jamboree begins. > > > This understanding.....can percolate through consciousness > itself.....the ego remains but becomes translucent.....and the natural > world of which Nisargadatta speaks becomes the extant reality. > > > Lest our friend think that we are arguing......I assure him that I am > anxiously awaiting another monkey wrench. > > > :-0 > > > > > toombarmonkeyu > you Are the monkey wrench ((-;........... toombaru2 2 toombaru1 (One) (~*~) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I fear that we are at that strange impass where the conceptual > entity > > > > realizes that conceptualization cannot cross its own borders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this has been fun...eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Sure, it's been grand. > > > > > > Not sure how you generated the idea of a conceptual entity that > > > realizes something. But there's no telling what can occur in a > > dream, eh? > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > This one tossed a monkey wrench into the well oiled advaita works. > > > > > > OK....aaaaaaaa let's see............ > > > > > > > > Within the dream.....there are characters....their actions are > > determined by everything that preceded them. > > > > They are the mechanisms through which that which is becomes self aware. > > > > .......an artifical overlap......out of which the identified entity > > emerges. > > > > This is the self-referential circularity...closed loop....that exists > > within the consensus conceptual overlay....this is the I-am-you-are. > > > > > > The curtain opens....and the zombie jamboree begins. > > > > > > This understanding.....can percolate through consciousness > > itself.....the ego remains but becomes translucent.....and the natural > > world of which Nisargadatta speaks becomes the extant reality. > > > > > > Lest our friend think that we are arguing......I assure him that I am > > anxiously awaiting another monkey wrench. > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > toombarmonkeyu > > > > > you Are the monkey wrench > > ((-;........... > > toombaru2 > 2 > toombaru1 > (One) > > (~*~) > ...........perhaps a wrench that can be used to disassemble the machinery? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fear that we are at that strange impass where the conceptual > > entity > > > > > realizes that conceptualization cannot cross its own borders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this has been fun...eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Sure, it's been grand. > > > > > > > > Not sure how you generated the idea of a conceptual entity that > > > > realizes something. But there's no telling what can occur in a > > > dream, eh? > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This one tossed a monkey wrench into the well oiled advaita works. > > > > > > > > > OK....aaaaaaaa let's see............ > > > > > > > > > > > > Within the dream.....there are characters....their actions are > > > determined by everything that preceded them. > > > > > > They are the mechanisms through which that which is becomes self > aware. > > > > > > .......an artifical overlap......out of which the identified entity > > > emerges. > > > > > > This is the self-referential circularity...closed loop....that exists > > > within the consensus conceptual overlay....this is the I-am-you-are. > > > > > > > > > The curtain opens....and the zombie jamboree begins. > > > > > > > > > This understanding.....can percolate through consciousness > > > itself.....the ego remains but becomes translucent.....and the > natural > > > world of which Nisargadatta speaks becomes the extant reality. > > > > > > > > > Lest our friend think that we are arguing......I assure him that I am > > > anxiously awaiting another monkey wrench. > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombarmonkeyu > > > > > > > > > you Are the monkey wrench > > > > ((-;........... > > > > toombaru2 > > 2 > > toombaru1 > > (One) > > > > (~*~) > > > > > > ..........perhaps a wrench that can be used to disassemble the machinery? > > > > toombaru > Both the wrench and the machinery, of course! Are you kidding? ~*~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fear that we are at that strange impass where the conceptual > > > entity > > > > > > realizes that conceptualization cannot cross its own borders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this has been fun...eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Sure, it's been grand. > > > > > > > > > > Not sure how you generated the idea of a conceptual entity that > > > > > realizes something. But there's no telling what can occur in a > > > > dream, eh? > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This one tossed a monkey wrench into the well oiled advaita works. > > > > > > > > > > > > OK....aaaaaaaa let's see............ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Within the dream.....there are characters....their actions are > > > > determined by everything that preceded them. > > > > > > > > They are the mechanisms through which that which is becomes self > > aware. > > > > > > > > .......an artifical overlap......out of which the identified entity > > > > emerges. > > > > > > > > This is the self-referential circularity...closed loop....that > exists > > > > within the consensus conceptual overlay....this is the I-am-you-are. > > > > > > > > > > > > The curtain opens....and the zombie jamboree begins. > > > > > > > > > > > > This understanding.....can percolate through consciousness > > > > itself.....the ego remains but becomes translucent.....and the > > natural > > > > world of which Nisargadatta speaks becomes the extant reality. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lest our friend think that we are arguing......I assure him that > I am > > > > anxiously awaiting another monkey wrench. > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombarmonkeyu > > > > > > > > > > > > > you Are the monkey wrench > > > > > > ((-;........... > > > > > > toombaru2 > > > 2 > > > toombaru1 > > > (One) > > > > > > (~*~) > > > > > > > > > > > ..........perhaps a wrench that can be used to disassemble the > machinery? > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > Both the wrench and the machinery, of course! > > Are you kidding? > > ~*~ > .........and then you throw the wrench away......... but.........there is no one left to toss it....... :-0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > Lest our friend think that we are arguing......I assure him that I am > anxiously awaiting another monkey wrench. > > > :-0 > > > > > toombarmonkeyu Cool. It's monkey-wrenches all the way down! ;-) -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fear that we are at that strange impass where the conceptual > > > > entity > > > > > > > realizes that conceptualization cannot cross its own borders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this has been fun...eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, it's been grand. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure how you generated the idea of a conceptual entity that > > > > > > realizes something. But there's no telling what can occur in a > > > > > dream, eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This one tossed a monkey wrench into the well oiled advaita works. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK....aaaaaaaa let's see............ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Within the dream.....there are characters....their actions are > > > > > determined by everything that preceded them. > > > > > > > > > > They are the mechanisms through which that which is becomes self > > > aware. > > > > > > > > > > .......an artifical overlap......out of which the identified > entity > > > > > emerges. > > > > > > > > > > This is the self-referential circularity...closed loop....that > > exists > > > > > within the consensus conceptual overlay....this is the > I-am-you-are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The curtain opens....and the zombie jamboree begins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This understanding.....can percolate through consciousness > > > > > itself.....the ego remains but becomes translucent.....and the > > > natural > > > > > world of which Nisargadatta speaks becomes the extant reality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lest our friend think that we are arguing......I assure him that > > I am > > > > > anxiously awaiting another monkey wrench. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombarmonkeyu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you Are the monkey wrench > > > > > > > > ((-;........... > > > > > > > > toombaru2 > > > > 2 > > > > toombaru1 > > > > (One) > > > > > > > > (~*~) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ..........perhaps a wrench that can be used to disassemble the > > machinery? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > Both the wrench and the machinery, of course! > > > > Are you kidding? > > > > ~*~ > > > > > > > ........and then you throw the wrench away......... > > > but.........there is no one left to toss it....... > > > :-0 > ......it toss to left one on is there....but ...away wrench the throw you then and ....... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/-;> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~just traces of a trajectory's ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ( finagain's) ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ wake ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ in brownian motion, floating in vacant love ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~*~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fear that we are at that strange impass where the > conceptual > > > > > entity > > > > > > > > realizes that conceptualization cannot cross its own > borders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this has been fun...eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, it's been grand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure how you generated the idea of a conceptual entity > that > > > > > > > realizes something. But there's no telling what can occur > in a > > > > > > dream, eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This one tossed a monkey wrench into the well oiled advaita > works. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK....aaaaaaaa let's see............ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Within the dream.....there are characters....their actions are > > > > > > determined by everything that preceded them. > > > > > > > > > > > > They are the mechanisms through which that which is becomes self > > > > aware. > > > > > > > > > > > > .......an artifical overlap......out of which the identified > > entity > > > > > > emerges. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the self-referential circularity...closed loop....that > > > exists > > > > > > within the consensus conceptual overlay....this is the > > I-am-you-are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The curtain opens....and the zombie jamboree begins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This understanding.....can percolate through consciousness > > > > > > itself.....the ego remains but becomes translucent.....and the > > > > natural > > > > > > world of which Nisargadatta speaks becomes the extant reality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lest our friend think that we are arguing......I assure him that > > > I am > > > > > > anxiously awaiting another monkey wrench. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombarmonkeyu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you Are the monkey wrench > > > > > > > > > > ((-;........... > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2 > > > > > 2 > > > > > toombaru1 > > > > > (One) > > > > > > > > > > (~*~) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ..........perhaps a wrench that can be used to disassemble the > > > machinery? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both the wrench and the machinery, of course! > > > > > > Are you kidding? > > > > > > ~*~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ........and then you throw the wrench away......... > > > > > > but.........there is no one left to toss it....... > > > > > > :-0 > > > > .....it toss to left one on is there....but ...away wrench the throw > you then and ....... > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/-;> > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~just traces of a trajectory's ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ( finagain's) ~ ~ > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ wake ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ in brownian motion, > floating > in vacant love ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ > > ~*~ > ...........a signature on flowing water........ ...........a heart shaped ripple......... in the air.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " > > <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fear that we are at that strange impass where the > > conceptual > > > > > > entity > > > > > > > > > realizes that conceptualization cannot cross its own > > borders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this has been fun...eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, it's been grand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure how you generated the idea of a conceptual entity > > that > > > > > > > > realizes something. But there's no telling what can occur > > in a > > > > > > > dream, eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This one tossed a monkey wrench into the well oiled advaita > > works. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK....aaaaaaaa let's see............ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Within the dream.....there are characters....their actions are > > > > > > > determined by everything that preceded them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are the mechanisms through which that which is > becomes self > > > > > aware. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .......an artifical overlap......out of which the identified > > > entity > > > > > > > emerges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the self-referential circularity...closed loop....that > > > > exists > > > > > > > within the consensus conceptual overlay....this is the > > > I-am-you-are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The curtain opens....and the zombie jamboree begins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This understanding.....can percolate through consciousness > > > > > > > itself.....the ego remains but becomes translucent.....and the > > > > > natural > > > > > > > world of which Nisargadatta speaks becomes the extant reality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lest our friend think that we are arguing......I assure > him that > > > > I am > > > > > > > anxiously awaiting another monkey wrench. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombarmonkeyu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you Are the monkey wrench > > > > > > > > > > > > ((-;........... > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2 > > > > > > 2 > > > > > > toombaru1 > > > > > > (One) > > > > > > > > > > > > (~*~) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ..........perhaps a wrench that can be used to disassemble the > > > > machinery? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both the wrench and the machinery, of course! > > > > > > > > Are you kidding? > > > > > > > > ~*~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ........and then you throw the wrench away......... > > > > > > > > > but.........there is no one left to toss it....... > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > .....it toss to left one on is there....but ...away wrench the throw > > you then and ....... > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/-;> > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~just traces of a trajectory's ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ( finagain's) ~ ~ > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ wake ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > > > > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ in brownian motion, > > floating > > in vacant love ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ > > > > ~*~ > > > > ..........a signature on flowing water........ > > ..........a heart shaped ripple......... in the air.......... > yeah, but " vacant love " is worth putting in an open jar and sealing with tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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