Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 toombaru: " All questions evaporated in the clarity of unknowing. " I *love* that! What a wonderfully ironic phrase: the clarity of unknowing. And its counterpart is: the muddle of knowing Questions run on tracks: verbal tracks. And seeing the fundamental emptiness of the question is to somehow get off the limited " space " of the verbal tracks. It is like a mini out-of-body experience... but a mini out-of-question experience... where the question can be seen as just this " stuff " that has no particular meaning, and that is seeing the emptiness of it. The point is that one has to get out of the limited " verbal space " and that is never accomplished by thought, which only runs on the " tracks " . One way to consider it, perhaps, is that there must be a shift from the " meaning " of the question to the " beingness " of the question. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > toombaru: > " All questions evaporated in the clarity of unknowing. " > > I *love* that! > > What a wonderfully ironic phrase: the clarity of unknowing. .....yes..... it's clear that there are some dream-bubbles which know.....nothing realy > > And its counterpart is: the muddle of knowing > > Questions run on tracks: verbal tracks. > And seeing the fundamental emptiness of the question is > to somehow get off the limited " space " of the verbal tracks. > It is like a mini out-of-body experience... but a mini > out-of-question experience... where the question can be > seen as just this " stuff " that has no particular meaning, > and that is seeing the emptiness of it. > > The point is that one has to get out of the limited " verbal > space " and that is never accomplished by thought, which > only runs on the " tracks " . > > One way to consider it, perhaps, is that there must be a > shift from the " meaning " of the question to the " beingness " > of the question. > > Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > > > toombaru: > > " All questions evaporated in the clarity of unknowing. " > > > > I *love* that! > > > > What a wonderfully ironic phrase: the clarity of unknowing. > > > ....yes..... > > it's clear that there are some dream-bubbles which know.....nothing > realy > > do such bubbles sometimes post messages to lists like this? > > > > And its counterpart is: the muddle of knowing > > > > Questions run on tracks: verbal tracks. > > And seeing the fundamental emptiness of the question is > > to somehow get off the limited " space " of the verbal tracks. > > It is like a mini out-of-body experience... but a mini > > out-of-question experience... where the question can be > > seen as just this " stuff " that has no particular meaning, > > and that is seeing the emptiness of it. > > > > The point is that one has to get out of the limited " verbal > > space " and that is never accomplished by thought, which > > only runs on the " tracks " . > > > > One way to consider it, perhaps, is that there must be a > > shift from the " meaning " of the question to the " beingness " > > of the question. > > > > Bill > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > > > toombaru: > > > " All questions evaporated in the clarity of unknowing. " > > > > > > I *love* that! > > > > > > What a wonderfully ironic phrase: the clarity of unknowing. > > > > > > ....yes..... > > > > it's clear that there are some dream-bubbles which know.....nothing > > realy > > > > > > do such bubbles sometimes post messages to lists like this? like what/how?.... .....doesn't matter... i let you continue....in your great mind-work.... > > > > > > > > And its counterpart is: the muddle of knowing > > > > > > Questions run on tracks: verbal tracks. > > > And seeing the fundamental emptiness of the question is > > > to somehow get off the limited " space " of the verbal tracks. > > > It is like a mini out-of-body experience... but a mini > > > out-of-question experience... where the question can be > > > seen as just this " stuff " that has no particular meaning, > > > and that is seeing the emptiness of it. > > > > > > The point is that one has to get out of the limited " verbal > > > space " and that is never accomplished by thought, which > > > only runs on the " tracks " . > > > > > > One way to consider it, perhaps, is that there must be a > > > shift from the " meaning " of the question to the " beingness " > > > of the question. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: >The point is that one has to get out of the limited " verbal >space " and that is never accomplished by thought, which >only runs on the " tracks " . > >One way to consider it, perhaps, is that there must be a >shift from the " meaning " of the question to the " beingness " >of the question. > >Bill But there is no point Since there is Nobody to shift Nobody to be shifted Nobody to get anywhere Because there is no elsewhere The beingness of the questioning Transforms into meaning Then becomes another questioning Bearing more meaning This continuous flow Called experiencing Is itself The point at ease Thanks Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > >The point is that one has to get out of the limited " verbal > >space " and that is never accomplished by thought, which > >only runs on the " tracks " . > > > >One way to consider it, perhaps, is that there must be a > >shift from the " meaning " of the question to the " beingness " > >of the question. > > > >Bill > > But there is no point > > Since there is > Nobody to shift > Nobody to be shifted > Nobody to get anywhere > Because there is no elsewhere > > The beingness of the questioning > Transforms into meaning > Then becomes another questioning > Bearing more meaning > > This continuous flow > Called experiencing > Is itself > The point at ease > > Thanks > Stefan hey Stefan.....greetings.... to/from nowhere else....but everywhere Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > > wrote: > > > > >The point is that one has to get out of the limited " verbal > > >space " and that is never accomplished by thought, which > > >only runs on the " tracks " . > > > > > >One way to consider it, perhaps, is that there must be a > > >shift from the " meaning " of the question to the " beingness " > > >of the question. > > > > > >Bill > > > > But there is no point > > > > Since there is > > Nobody to shift > > Nobody to be shifted > > Nobody to get anywhere > > Because there is no elsewhere > > > > The beingness of the questioning > > Transforms into meaning > > Then becomes another questioning > > Bearing more meaning > > > > This continuous flow > > Called experiencing > > Is itself > > The point at ease > > > > Thanks > > Stefan > > > hey Stefan.....greetings.... > > to/from nowhere else....but everywhere > > Marc Ps: And he sits in the grand stand alone He's got this big smile on his face He feels like he's just come home Feels like he's finally, finally found his place In the sun, he has won He's the King of the mountain alone Pigeons fighting over scraps, yeah Humans they say do not Hiding from life and little naps Waking up to find You have been caught, you have been bought, yeah You're the King of some mountain alone Mmm ... Empty wrappers blowin' past him in the breeze He can still hear last Sunday roar He sits there and pulls his coat tighter over his knees And he listens to these people who aren't there anymore They were only there for The King of the mountain alone CROSBY & NASH King Of The Mountain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > >The point is that one has to get out of the limited " verbal > >space " and that is never accomplished by thought, which > >only runs on the " tracks " . > > > >One way to consider it, perhaps, is that there must be a > >shift from the " meaning " of the question to the " beingness " > >of the question. > > > >Bill > > But there is no point > > Since there is > Nobody to shift > Nobody to be shifted > Nobody to get anywhere > Because there is no elsewhere > > The beingness of the questioning > Transforms into meaning > Then becomes another questioning > Bearing more meaning > > This continuous flow > Called experiencing > Is itself > The point at ease > > Thanks > Stefan What you say applies for when there are no questions. When there *are* burning questions then funny little ways of " shifting " ways of looking/considering can induce fundamental change (sometimes). What you are advocating could be called neo-Advaita... Take the Ashtavakra Gita... great stuff, but not much use except for the most advanced, as for example: If only you will remain resting in consciousness, seeing yourself as distinct from the body, then even now you will become happy, peaceful and free from bonds. Pretty similar to the stanza you have written above: > This continuous flow > Called experiencing > Is itself > The point at ease So whether there " is a point " depends... it always depends. There is no absolute in the ways and means of the turning over of ignorance into the simplicity of realization. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > >The point is that one has to get out of the limited " verbal > >space " and that is never accomplished by thought, which > >only runs on the " tracks " . > > > >One way to consider it, perhaps, is that there must be a > >shift from the " meaning " of the question to the " beingness " > >of the question. > > > >Bill > > But there is no point > > Since there is > Nobody to shift > Nobody to be shifted > Nobody to get anywhere > Because there is no elsewhere > > The beingness of the questioning > Transforms into meaning > Then becomes another questioning > Bearing more meaning > > This continuous flow > Called experiencing > Is itself > The point at ease > > Thanks > Stefan > (((((Stefan))))) I was thinking of you and Marios last night. Again. So nice to see your name, to feel your presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: >What you say applies for when there are no >questions. When there *are* burning questions >then funny little ways of " shifting " ways of >looking/considering can induce fundamental >change (sometimes). Who is shifting and who is shifted? Who is changed by whom? With this burning question watching The stream of questions and answers I saw nobody Greetings Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: >(((((Stefan))))) I was thinking of you and Marios last night. >Again. So nice to see your name, to feel your presence. Hi Anna... Between two dances it came up: Why not have a look? And I found This crazy bunch of people Their words Listed in blue letters Are still there! I thought it has been a long time And I will leave a mark Or two. Now you thinking of me And me thinking of you Has become another dance In between two dances :-) Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart@> > wrote: > > >What you say applies for when there are no > >questions. When there *are* burning questions > >then funny little ways of " shifting " ways of > >looking/considering can induce fundamental > >change (sometimes). > > Who is shifting and who is shifted? > Who is changed by whom? The same " who " that sent the message that is now being responded to. There's nobody there... So it may be asked why suggest " funny little ways of 'shifting'... " etc. No different from mnotive for sending the message that is now being responded to. Nobody there on either end, but the mechanisms do function. It is all just programming. All these messages are just programming, not " to anyone " , but they will be mulched into the functioning of the mechanisms... maybe having virtually no effect, occasionally maybe having some. [note: c.f. McLuhan's the message is the massage....] > With this burning question watching Ha! hardly burning am sure... > The stream of questions and answers > I saw nobody Bill > Greetings > Stefan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " pliantheart " <pliantheart wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > wrote: >>Who is shifting and who is shifted? >>Who is changed by whom? > >The same " who " that sent the message that >is now being responded to. Hi Bill! Are you able to catch this " who " which is sending the message? To nail it down and file it? And are you really sure this is the same " who " that needs to change something? And moreover the same " who " which needs to be changed? And even if it was, would not any effort result in a short circuit? I have tried to find a consistent " who " . The question was burning like a question of life and death can only burn. It once seemed that my life was dependent on finding such a solid, reliable identity. But the moment any " who " was identified it had already passed... and there was another " who " ... and another. Little concepts of something vast. Attempts to make flux appear as solid. You are right when you say " it depends " . I do not try to find arguments for another advaitic " truth " ... I am writing down some thoughts that come up. And I am still wondering who I am. And my world is functioning, mysteriously it is. Greetings Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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