Guest guest Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Reality lies in Objectivity Q: I am a painter and I earn by painting pictures. Has it any value from the spiritual point of view? M: When you paint, what do you think about? Q: When I paint, there is only the painting and myself. M: What are you doing there? Q: I paint. M: No, you don't. You see the painting going one. You are watching only, all else happens. Q: The picture is painting itself? Or, is there some deeper 'me, or some God who is painting? M: Consciousness itself is the greatest painter. The entire world is a picture. Q: The picture is in the mind of the painter and the painter is in the picture, which is in the mind of the painter who is in the picture! Is not his infinity of states and dimensions absurd? The moment we talk of a picture in the mind which itself is in the picture, we come to and endless succession of witnesses, the higher witness witnessing the lower, It is like standing between two mirrors and wondering at the crowd! M: Quite right, you alone and the double mirror are there. Between the two, your forms and names are numberless. Q: How do you look at the world? M: I see a painter painting a picture. The picture I call the world, the painter I call God. I am neither. I do not create, nor am I created. I contain all, nothing contains me. Q: When I see a tree, a face, a sunset, the picture is perfect. When I close my eyes, the image in my mind is faint and hazy. If it is my mind that projects the picture, why need I open my eyes to see a lovely flower and with eyes closed I see it vaguely? M: It is because your outer eyes are better than your inner eyes. Your mind is all turned outward. As you learn to watch your mental world, you will find it even more colorful and perfect than what the body can provide. Of course, you will need some training. But why argue? You imagine that the picture must come from the painter who actually painted it. All the time you look for origins and causes. Causality is in the mind only; memory gives the illusion of continuity and repetitiveness creates the ideas of causality. When things repeatedly happen together, we tend to see a causal link between them. It creates a mental habit, but a habit is not a necessity. Q: You have just said that the world is made by God. M: Remember that language is an instrument of the mind; it is made by the mind, for the mind. Once you admit a cause, then God is the ultimate cause and the world the effect. They are different, but not separate. Q: People talk of seeing God. M: When you see the world you see God. There is no seeing God, apart from the world. Beyond the world to see God is to be God. The light by which you see the world, which is God is the tiny spark: 'I am', apparently so small, yet the first and the last in every act of knowing and loving. Q: Must I see the world to see God? M: How else? No world, no God. Q: What remains? M: You remain as pure being. Q: And what becomes of the world and of God? M: Pure being (avyakta). Q: Is it the same as the great Expanse (paramakash)? M: You may call it so. Words do not matter, for they do not reach it. They turn back in utter negation. Q: How can I see the world as God? What does it mean to see the world as God? M: It is like entering a dark room. You see nothing - you may touch, but you do not see - no colors, no outlines. The window opens and the room is flooded with light. Colors and shapes come into being. The window is the giver of light, but not the source of it. The sun is the source. Similarly, matter is like the dark room, consciousness - the window - flooding matter with sensations and perceptions, and the supreme is the sun, the source both of matter and of light. The window may be closed, or open, the sun shines all the time. It makes all the difference to the room, but not to the sun. Yet all this is secondary to the tiny little thing which is the 'I am'. Without the 'I am' there is nothing. All knowledge is about the 'I am " . False ideas about this 'I am' leads to bondage, right knowledge leads to freedom and happiness. Q: Is 'I am' and 'there is', the same? M: 'I am' denotes the inner, 'there is' - the outer. Both are based on the sense of being. Q: Is it the same as the experience of existence? M: To exist means to be something, a thing, a feeling, a thought, an idea. All existence is particular. Only being is universal, in the sense that every being is compatible with every other being, Existences clash, being - never. Existence means becoming, change, birth and death and birth again, which in being there is silent peace. Q: If I create the world, why have I made it bad? M: Everyone lives in his own world. Not all the worlds are equally good or bad. Q: What determines the difference? M: The mind that projects the world, colors it its own way. When you meet a man, he is a stranger. When you marry him, he becomes your own self. When you quarrel, he becomes your enemy. It is your mind's attitude that determines what he is to you. Q: I can see that my world is subjective. Does it make it also illusory? M: It is illusory as long as it is subjective and to that extent only. Reality lies in objectivity. Q: What does objectivity mean? You said that world is subjective and now you talk of objectivity. Is not everything subjective? M: Everything is subjective, but the real is objective. Q: In what sense? M: It does not depend on memories and expectations, desire and fear, likes and dislikes. All is seen as it is Q: Is it what you call the fourth stat (turiya)? M: Call is as you like. It is solid, steady changeless, beginningless and endless, ever new, ever fresh. Q: How is it reached? M: Desirelessness and fearlessness with take you there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau wrote: > > > > --- Era Molnar <n0ndual wrote: > > > > > Reality lies in Objectivity > > > > Q: I am a painter and I earn by painting pictures. > > Has > > it any value from the spiritual point of view? > > > > M: When you paint, what do you think about? > > > > Q: When I paint, there is only the painting and > > myself. > > > > M: What are you doing there? > > > > Q: I paint. > > > > M: No, you don't. You see the painting going one. > > You are watching only, all else happens. > > > > Q: The picture is painting itself? Or, is there some > > deeper 'me, > > or some God who is painting? > > > > M: Consciousness itself is the greatest painter. The > > entire world > > is a picture. > > > > Q: The picture is in the mind of the painter and the > > painter is in > > the picture, which is in the mind of the painter who > > is in the > > picture! Is not his infinity of states and > > dimensions absurd? The > > moment we talk of a picture in the mind which itself > > is in the picture, > > we come to and endless succession of witnesses, the > > higher > > witness witnessing the lower, It is like standing > > between > > two mirrors and wondering at the crowd! > > > > M: Quite right, you alone and the double mirror are > > there. > > Between the two, your forms and names are > > numberless. > > > > Q: How do you look at the world? > > > > M: I see a painter painting a picture. The picture I > > call the world, > > the painter I call God. I am neither. I do not > > create, nor am I > > created. I contain all, nothing contains me. > > > > Q: When I see a tree, a face, a sunset, the picture > > is perfect. When > > I close my eyes, the image in my mind is faint and > > hazy. If it is > > my mind that projects the picture, why need I open > > my eyes to > > see a lovely flower and with eyes closed I see it > > vaguely? > > M: It is because your outer eyes are better than > > your inner eyes. > > Your mind is all turned outward. As you learn to > > watch your > > mental world, you will find it even more colorful > > and perfect > > than what the body can provide. Of course, you will > > need some > > training. But why argue? You imagine that the > > picture must come > > from the painter who actually painted it. All the > > time you look > > for origins and causes. Causality is in the mind > > only; memory > > gives the illusion of continuity and repetitiveness > > creates the ideas > > of causality. When things repeatedly happen > > together, we tend > > to see a causal link between them. It creates a > > mental habit, but a > > habit is not a necessity. > > > > Q: You have just said that the world is made by God. > > > > M: Remember that language is an instrument of the > > mind; it is > > made by the mind, for the mind. Once you admit a > > cause, then > > God is the ultimate cause and the world the effect. > > They are > > different, but not separate. > > > > Q: People talk of seeing God. > > > > M: When you see the world you see God. There is no > > seeing > > God, apart from the world. Beyond the world to see > > God is to be > > God. The light by which you see the world, which is > > God is the > > tiny spark: 'I am', apparently so small, yet the > > first and the > > last in every act of knowing and loving. > > > > Q: Must I see the world to see God? > > > > M: How else? No world, no God. > > > > Q: What remains? > > > > M: You remain as pure being. > > > > Q: And what becomes of the world and of God? > > > > M: Pure being (avyakta). > > > > Q: Is it the same as the great Expanse (paramakash)? > > > > M: You may call it so. Words do not matter, for they > > do not reach > > it. They turn back in utter negation. > > > > Q: How can I see the world as God? What does it mean > > to see the > > world as God? > > > > M: It is like entering a dark room. You see nothing > > - you may touch, but you do not see - no colors, no > > outlines. The window > > opens and the room is flooded with light. Colors and > > shapes > > come into being. The window is the giver of light, > > but not the > > source of it. The sun is the source. Similarly, > > matter is like the > > dark room, consciousness - the window - flooding > > matter with > > sensations and perceptions, and the supreme is the > > sun, the source > > both of matter and of light. The window may be > > closed, or open, > > the sun shines all the time. It makes all the > > difference to the room, > > but not to the sun. Yet all this is secondary to the > > tiny little > > thing which is the 'I am'. Without the 'I am' there > > is nothing. > > > > All knowledge is about the 'I am " . False ideas about > > this > > 'I am' leads to bondage, right knowledge leads to > > freedom and > > happiness. > > > > Q: Is 'I am' and 'there is', the same? > > > > M: 'I am' denotes the inner, 'there is' - the > > outer. Both are based > > on the sense of being. > > > > Q: Is it the same as the experience of existence? > > > > M: To exist means to be something, a thing, a > > feeling, a thought, > > an idea. All existence is particular. Only being is > > universal, in the > > sense that every being is compatible with every > > other being, > > Existences clash, being - never. Existence means > > becoming, > > change, birth and death and birth again, > > which in being there is silent peace. > > > > Q: If I create the world, why have I made it bad? > > > > M: Everyone lives in his own world. Not all the > > worlds are > > equally good or bad. > > > > Q: What determines the difference? > > > > M: The mind that projects the world, colors it its > > own way. When > > you meet a man, he is a stranger. When you marry > > him, he > > becomes your own self. When you quarrel, he becomes > > your > > enemy. It is your mind's attitude that determines > > what he is to > > you. > > > > Q: I can see that my world is subjective. Does it > > make it also > > illusory? > > > > M: It is illusory as long as it is subjective and to > > that extent only. > > Reality lies in objectivity. > > > > Q: What does objectivity mean? You said that world > > is subjective > > and now you talk of objectivity. Is not everything > > subjective? > > > > M: Everything is subjective, but the real is > > objective. > > > > Q: In what sense? > > > > M: It does not depend on memories and expectations, > > desire > > and fear, likes and dislikes. All is seen as it is > > > > Q: Is it what you call the fourth stat (turiya)? > > > > M: Call is as you like. It is solid, steady > > changeless, beginningless > > and endless, ever new, ever fresh. > > > > Q: How is it reached? > > > > M: Desirelessness and fearlessness with take you > > there. > > > Interesting. At the time I was reading this I was > also half-watching a documentary about Cezanne and it > seemed a dynamic synchrony. > > Now Cezanne they say put a great deal of effort into > being 'different' than other artists of his time. His > work, then, it seems to me could not be considered > 'objective'. > > There is a peacefulness that accompanies recognition > of life being lived through me but there is some > conditioning yet lurking which says: yeah right! > > Is that the hook stuck in desire/fear? > > > > Noel Hi Noel, honsty is the best policy, it has been said;-) we are not finished...in this painting of life; ever refining our brushstrokes.... ;-) You are a nice energy here Noel, thanks, Anna > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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