Guest guest Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau wrote: > > > > --- toombaru2006 <lastrain wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , Noel > > <noel_beau@> wrote: > > > > > > What would Nisargadatta say about fear? > > > > > > Noel > > > > > > > > > He would say to apprehend the nature of the one who > > is > > frightened....and all questions about fear > > evaporate. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > I am not sure how to write what I want to write in > response to this. Here goes, though. I think when > one is not in a state of fear it is quite clear and > easy to understand what it means 'to apprehend the > nature of the one who is frightened'. I think when > one is in a state of fear it is a different matter. > To then apply, earnestly would seem to mean to > simply look at the thoughts related to the fear state. > But...the fear state in my experience is not only > experienced as thought. It actually grips the body. > See what I mean? > > Noel > The self is in constant fear. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Never trust a weasel to watch the chickens. toombaru P: This is the old cliche of the fox and the henhouse, with a twist of weasel. Never trust a cliche peddler to say anything useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5 wrote: > > Never trust a weasel to watch the chickens. > > > toombaru > > P: This is the old cliche of the fox and the henhouse, > with a twist of weasel. Never trust a cliche peddler > to say anything useful. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5@> wrote: > > > > Never trust a weasel to watch the chickens. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > P: This is the old cliche of the fox and the henhouse, > > with a twist of weasel. Never trust a cliche peddler > > to say anything useful. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau wrote: > > > > --- Pete S <pedsie5 wrote: > > > > > On Aug 1, 2006, at 10:19 AM, > > Nisargadatta wrote: > > > > > But...the fear state in my experience is not only > > > > experienced as thought. It actually grips the > > body. > > > > See what I mean? > > > > > > > > Noel > > > > P: Watch the feeling of fear, watch the reactions of > > the body to this feeling. Watch how the feeling > > changes when observed, watch how the mind > > behaves when observing the fear. > > > > > Right now I am busy watching the feeling of not being > heard, the reactions of my body to this feeling. I am > watching how the feeling changes into, well its > dematerializing. Thought says: next? > > Noel and when you love and embrace open completely to with tenderness and grace? .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau wrote: >But...the fear state in my experience is not only >experienced as thought. It actually grips the body. >See what I mean? > >Noel Dear Noel, the only way to know of fear is through thought. The only way to know of a separate body and a respective grip is through thought. What is before thought cannot be known. The moment you sense " I know " it has become a thought. This means: fear, like any other state, must be a conceptualization. There is a continous flow of experiencing. We cannot get hold of it. So we have invented concepts of states, conventions. And they are themselves part of the continous flow. Fear and suffering cannot be avoided. But maybe it can be understood of what stuff fear and suffering are made. And of what stuff this understanding itself is again made of. And so on. Greetings Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 On Aug 2, 2006, at 12:06 PM, Nisargadatta wrote: > -- In Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau wrote: > > >But...the fear state in my experience is not only > >experienced as thought. It actually grips the body. > >See what I mean? > > > >Noel > > Dear Noel, > > the only way to know of fear is through thought. The only way to know > of a separate body and a respective grip is through thought. What is > before thought cannot be known. The moment you sense " I know " it has > become a thought. > > This means: fear, like any other state, must be a conceptualization. > There is a continous flow of experiencing. We cannot get hold of it. > So we have invented concepts of states, conventions. And they are > themselves part of the continous flow. > > Fear and suffering cannot be avoided. But maybe it can be understood > of what stuff fear and suffering are made. And of what stuff this > understanding itself is again made of. And so on. > > Greetings > Stefan P: Excellent! Your reply and Kip's were the best, IMO, but Anders is difficult costumer, ain't you Al? ) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5 wrote: > > > On Aug 2, 2006, at 12:06 PM, Nisargadatta wrote: > > > -- In Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau@> wrote: > > > > >But...the fear state in my experience is not only > > >experienced as thought. It actually grips the body. > > >See what I mean? > > > > > >Noel > > > > Dear Noel, > > > > the only way to know of fear is through thought. The only way to know > > of a separate body and a respective grip is through thought. What is > > before thought cannot be known. The moment you sense " I know " it has > > become a thought. > > > > This means: fear, like any other state, must be a conceptualization. > > There is a continous flow of experiencing. We cannot get hold of it. > > So we have invented concepts of states, conventions. And they are > > themselves part of the continous flow. > > > > Fear and suffering cannot be avoided. But maybe it can be understood > > of what stuff fear and suffering are made. And of what stuff this > > understanding itself is again made of. And so on. > > > > Greetings > > Stefan > > > P: Excellent! Your reply and Kip's were the best, IMO, > but Anders is difficult costumer, ain't you Al? ) > > > Fear and suffering can probably be avoided. There are reasons to believe that fear is caused by a chemical imbalance in body and mind. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau wrote: >>Dear Noel, >> >>the only way to know of fear is through thought. > > >Hello Stefan, > >It appears by the way you phrase your comments that >you 'believe' you possess absolute truth. I do not >make such a claim. I can only speak for my own >seeing. > >In my seeing your absolute truth is not true. It >relates only to the psychological. > >Best wishes to you, > >Noel Hi Noel! From what you write it does not become clear to me in what way you disagree and of course you are not obliged to justify your disagreement. But allow me to say, I do not believe in anything like " absolute truth " . I can only speak from my own experience and I try to be reasonable (to avoid the word " logical " ). I have come a long way to find myself where I am now and who knows where it still will go. Now simply try to walk in my shoes for a few minutes and then see yourself. Best wishes! Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman wrote: >Fear and suffering can probably be avoided. There are reasons to >believe that fear is caused by a chemical imbalance in body and mind. > >al. Hi Al! Why should it be avoided when the very attempt to avoid it is the root for the suffering? Greetings Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau@> wrote: > > >>Dear Noel, > >> > >>the only way to know of fear is through thought. > > > > > >Hello Stefan, > > > >It appears by the way you phrase your comments that > >you 'believe' you possess absolute truth. I do not > >make such a claim. I can only speak for my own > >seeing. > > > >In my seeing your absolute truth is not true. It > >relates only to the psychological. > > > >Best wishes to you, > > > >Noel > > Hi Noel! > > From what you write it does not become clear to me in what way you > disagree and of course you are not obliged to justify your > disagreement. But allow me to say, I do not believe in anything like > " absolute truth " . > > I can only speak from my own experience and I try to be reasonable (to > avoid the word " logical " ). I have come a long way to find myself where > I am now and who knows where it still will go. Now simply try to walk > in my shoes for a few minutes and then see yourself. > > Best wishes! > Stefan > don't mean to butt in Stephan, but are you absolutely sure their are no absolutes? truth or otherwise? are you absolutely sure of or hold belief in anything....absolutely? this is not meant as a trick question.just curious. ..bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau@> wrote: > > > > >>Dear Noel, > > >> > > >>the only way to know of fear is through thought. > > > > > > > > >Hello Stefan, > > > > > >It appears by the way you phrase your comments that > > >you 'believe' you possess absolute truth. I do not > > >make such a claim. I can only speak for my own > > >seeing. > > > > > >In my seeing your absolute truth is not true. It > > >relates only to the psychological. > > > > > >Best wishes to you, > > > > > >Noel > > > > Hi Noel! > > > > From what you write it does not become clear to me in what way you > > disagree and of course you are not obliged to justify your > > disagreement. But allow me to say, I do not believe in anything like > > " absolute truth " . > > > > I can only speak from my own experience and I try to be reasonable > (to > > avoid the word " logical " ). I have come a long way to find myself > where > > I am now and who knows where it still will go. Now simply try to > walk > > in my shoes for a few minutes and then see yourself. > > > > Best wishes! > > Stefan > > > don't mean to butt in Stephan, but are you absolutely sure their are > no absolutes? truth or otherwise? are you absolutely sure of or hold > belief in anything....absolutely? this is not meant as a trick > question.just curious. > > ..bob > most things are relative some, including this are absolute no biggie .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau@> wrote: > > > > > > >>Dear Noel, > > > >> > > > >>the only way to know of fear is through thought. > > > > > > > > > > > >Hello Stefan, > > > > > > > >It appears by the way you phrase your comments that > > > >you 'believe' you possess absolute truth. I do not > > > >make such a claim. I can only speak for my own > > > >seeing. > > > > > > > >In my seeing your absolute truth is not true. It > > > >relates only to the psychological. > > > > > > > >Best wishes to you, > > > > > > > >Noel > > > > > > Hi Noel! > > > > > > From what you write it does not become clear to me in what way you > > > disagree and of course you are not obliged to justify your > > > disagreement. But allow me to say, I do not believe in anything like > > > " absolute truth " . > > > > > > I can only speak from my own experience and I try to be reasonable > > (to > > > avoid the word " logical " ). I have come a long way to find myself > > where > > > I am now and who knows where it still will go. Now simply try to > > walk > > > in my shoes for a few minutes and then see yourself. > > > > > > Best wishes! > > > Stefan > > > > > don't mean to butt in Stephan, but are you absolutely sure their are > > no absolutes? truth or otherwise? are you absolutely sure of or hold > > belief in anything....absolutely? this is not meant as a trick > > question.just curious. > > > > ..bob > > > > > most things are relative > > some, including this > > are absolute > > no biggie > > > > ... > no smallie either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau@> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>Dear Noel, > > > > >> > > > > >>the only way to know of fear is through thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hello Stefan, > > > > > > > > > >It appears by the way you phrase your comments that > > > > >you 'believe' you possess absolute truth. I do not > > > > >make such a claim. I can only speak for my own > > > > >seeing. > > > > > > > > > >In my seeing your absolute truth is not true. It > > > > >relates only to the psychological. > > > > > > > > > >Best wishes to you, > > > > > > > > > >Noel > > > > > > > > Hi Noel! > > > > > > > > From what you write it does not become clear to me in what way > you > > > > disagree and of course you are not obliged to justify your > > > > disagreement. But allow me to say, I do not believe in anything > like > > > > " absolute truth " . > > > > > > > > I can only speak from my own experience and I try to be > reasonable > > > (to > > > > avoid the word " logical " ). I have come a long way to find > myself > > > where > > > > I am now and who knows where it still will go. Now simply try > to > > > walk > > > > in my shoes for a few minutes and then see yourself. > > > > > > > > Best wishes! > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > don't mean to butt in Stephan, but are you absolutely sure their > are > > > no absolutes? truth or otherwise? are you absolutely sure of or > hold > > > belief in anything....absolutely? this is not meant as a trick > > > question.just curious. > > > > > > ..bob > > > > > > > > > most things are relative > > > > some, including this > > > > are absolute > > > > no biggie > > > > > > > > ... > > > no smallie either > after all this ....... you're suddenly going to get middie on us? (no middie) .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >>Dear Noel, > > > > > >> > > > > > >>the only way to know of fear is through thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hello Stefan, > > > > > > > > > > > >It appears by the way you phrase your comments that > > > > > >you 'believe' you possess absolute truth. I do not > > > > > >make such a claim. I can only speak for my own > > > > > >seeing. > > > > > > > > > > > >In my seeing your absolute truth is not true. It > > > > > >relates only to the psychological. > > > > > > > > > > > >Best wishes to you, > > > > > > > > > > > >Noel > > > > > > > > > > Hi Noel! > > > > > > > > > > From what you write it does not become clear to me in what way > > you > > > > > disagree and of course you are not obliged to justify your > > > > > disagreement. But allow me to say, I do not believe in anything > > like > > > > > " absolute truth " . > > > > > > > > > > I can only speak from my own experience and I try to be > > reasonable > > > > (to > > > > > avoid the word " logical " ). I have come a long way to find > > myself > > > > where > > > > > I am now and who knows where it still will go. Now simply try > > to > > > > walk > > > > > in my shoes for a few minutes and then see yourself. > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes! > > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > don't mean to butt in Stephan, but are you absolutely sure their > > are > > > > no absolutes? truth or otherwise? are you absolutely sure of or > > hold > > > > belief in anything....absolutely? this is not meant as a trick > > > > question.just curious. > > > > > > > > ..bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > most things are relative > > > > > > some, including this > > > > > > are absolute > > > > > > no biggie > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > no smallie either > > > > > after all this ....... > > you're suddenly going to get middie > > on us? > > (no middie) > > > > > > ... > I always use midi to compose and record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Dear Noel, > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>the only way to know of fear is through thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hello Stefan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >It appears by the way you phrase your comments that > > > > > > >you 'believe' you possess absolute truth. I do not > > > > > > >make such a claim. I can only speak for my own > > > > > > >seeing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >In my seeing your absolute truth is not true. It > > > > > > >relates only to the psychological. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Best wishes to you, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Noel > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Noel! > > > > > > > > > > > > From what you write it does not become clear to me in what > way > > > you > > > > > > disagree and of course you are not obliged to justify your > > > > > > disagreement. But allow me to say, I do not believe in > anything > > > like > > > > > > " absolute truth " . > > > > > > > > > > > > I can only speak from my own experience and I try to be > > > reasonable > > > > > (to > > > > > > avoid the word " logical " ). I have come a long way to find > > > myself > > > > > where > > > > > > I am now and who knows where it still will go. Now simply > try > > > to > > > > > walk > > > > > > in my shoes for a few minutes and then see yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes! > > > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > don't mean to butt in Stephan, but are you absolutely sure > their > > > are > > > > > no absolutes? truth or otherwise? are you absolutely sure of > or > > > hold > > > > > belief in anything....absolutely? this is not meant as a > trick > > > > > question.just curious. > > > > > > > > > > ..bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > most things are relative > > > > > > > > some, including this > > > > > > > > are absolute > > > > > > > > no biggie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > no smallie either > > > > > > > > > after all this ....... > > > > you're suddenly going to get middie > > > > on us? > > > > (no middie) > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > I always use midi to compose and record. > no midi uses U .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > <Roberibus111@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Dear Noel, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>the only way to know of fear is through thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hello Stefan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >It appears by the way you phrase your comments that > > > > > > > >you 'believe' you possess absolute truth. I do not > > > > > > > >make such a claim. I can only speak for my own > > > > > > > >seeing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >In my seeing your absolute truth is not true. It > > > > > > > >relates only to the psychological. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Best wishes to you, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Noel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Noel! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From what you write it does not become clear to me in what > > way > > > > you > > > > > > > disagree and of course you are not obliged to justify your > > > > > > > disagreement. But allow me to say, I do not believe in > > anything > > > > like > > > > > > > " absolute truth " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can only speak from my own experience and I try to be > > > > reasonable > > > > > > (to > > > > > > > avoid the word " logical " ). I have come a long way to find > > > > myself > > > > > > where > > > > > > > I am now and who knows where it still will go. Now simply > > try > > > > to > > > > > > walk > > > > > > > in my shoes for a few minutes and then see yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes! > > > > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't mean to butt in Stephan, but are you absolutely sure > > their > > > > are > > > > > > no absolutes? truth or otherwise? are you absolutely sure of > > or > > > > hold > > > > > > belief in anything....absolutely? this is not meant as a > > trick > > > > > > question.just curious. > > > > > > > > > > > > ..bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > most things are relative > > > > > > > > > > some, including this > > > > > > > > > > are absolute > > > > > > > > > > no biggie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > no smallie either > > > > > > > > > > > > > after all this ....... > > > > > > you're suddenly going to get middie > > > > > > on us? > > > > > > (no middie) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > I always use midi to compose and record. > > > > > no > > > midi > > uses > > > U > > > > > ... > I am INTERFACE....using all used by none....secret and secure and hidden to all....like Interpol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > <Roberibus111@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " > <s.petersilge@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Dear Noel, > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>the only way to know of fear is through thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hello Stefan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >It appears by the way you phrase your comments that > > > > > > > > >you 'believe' you possess absolute truth. I do not > > > > > > > > >make such a claim. I can only speak for my own > > > > > > > > >seeing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >In my seeing your absolute truth is not true. It > > > > > > > > >relates only to the psychological. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Best wishes to you, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Noel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Noel! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From what you write it does not become clear to me in > what > > > way > > > > > you > > > > > > > > disagree and of course you are not obliged to justify > your > > > > > > > > disagreement. But allow me to say, I do not believe in > > > anything > > > > > like > > > > > > > > " absolute truth " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can only speak from my own experience and I try to be > > > > > reasonable > > > > > > > (to > > > > > > > > avoid the word " logical " ). I have come a long way to > find > > > > > myself > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > I am now and who knows where it still will go. Now > simply > > > try > > > > > to > > > > > > > walk > > > > > > > > in my shoes for a few minutes and then see yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes! > > > > > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't mean to butt in Stephan, but are you absolutely > sure > > > their > > > > > are > > > > > > > no absolutes? truth or otherwise? are you absolutely sure > of > > > or > > > > > hold > > > > > > > belief in anything....absolutely? this is not meant as a > > > trick > > > > > > > question.just curious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ..bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > most things are relative > > > > > > > > > > > > some, including this > > > > > > > > > > > > are absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > no biggie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > no smallie either > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after all this ....... > > > > > > > > you're suddenly going to get middie > > > > > > > > on us? > > > > > > > > (no middie) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > I always use midi to compose and record. > > > > > > > > > no > > > > > > midi > > > > uses > > > > > > U > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > I am INTERFACE....using all used by none....secret and secure and > hidden to all....like Interpol. > ie, we ARE the police .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau wrote: > >Noel: >It relates only to the psychological. This is again a conception. Conceptions can be useful but it is foolish to believe in them. What I have said relates to my own experience, which is all I have at my disposal. I have suggested to walk for a few minutes in my shoes. This means: watch what is happening for you, in your own world, and try for yourself if you can confirm what I have said or not. Again, I have tried myself intensly to get hold of, to discover something outside of thought. I gave up. The moment I confirm any experience it has become a thought. Which is prior to thought cannot be known. This is not an intellectual speculation, it is only the confession of my un-ability. Greetings Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > <Roberibus111@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > > <Roberibus111@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " > > <s.petersilge@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Dear Noel, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >>the only way to know of fear is through thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hello Stefan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >It appears by the way you phrase your comments that > > > > > > > > > >you 'believe' you possess absolute truth. I do not > > > > > > > > > >make such a claim. I can only speak for my own > > > > > > > > > >seeing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >In my seeing your absolute truth is not true. It > > > > > > > > > >relates only to the psychological. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Best wishes to you, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Noel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Noel! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From what you write it does not become clear to me in > > what > > > > way > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > disagree and of course you are not obliged to justify > > your > > > > > > > > > disagreement. But allow me to say, I do not believe in > > > > anything > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > " absolute truth " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can only speak from my own experience and I try to be > > > > > > reasonable > > > > > > > > (to > > > > > > > > > avoid the word " logical " ). I have come a long way to > > find > > > > > > myself > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > I am now and who knows where it still will go. Now > > simply > > > > try > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > walk > > > > > > > > > in my shoes for a few minutes and then see yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes! > > > > > > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't mean to butt in Stephan, but are you absolutely > > sure > > > > their > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > no absolutes? truth or otherwise? are you absolutely sure > > of > > > > or > > > > > > hold > > > > > > > > belief in anything....absolutely? this is not meant as a > > > > trick > > > > > > > > question.just curious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ..bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > most things are relative > > > > > > > > > > > > > > some, including this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no biggie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > no smallie either > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after all this ....... > > > > > > > > > > you're suddenly going to get middie > > > > > > > > > > on us? > > > > > > > > > > (no middie) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > I always use midi to compose and record. > > > > > > > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > midi > > > > > > uses > > > > > > > > > U > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > I am INTERFACE....using all used by none....secret and secure and > > hidden to all....like Interpol. > > > > ie, we ARE the police > > > > ... > teriific band too.and Sting is still a swinger and a stinger of a singer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau wrote: > > > Hello AL, > > Your point is well taken. The body is quite complex. > Another aspect might be the sensory apparatus human > beings are equipped with, not unlike other animals to, > for example, sense danger. No thought is required. > > Noel > Hi Noel, Sense perceptions can give rise to immediate fear. We humans also have another kind of fear because we can think so much about the future. That kind of fear can become unhealthy when it creates a constant load on our body and mind. I suspect that most people have a constant subconscious fear and desire and that creates a background feeling of restlessness and/or boredom. In a healthy state there should be as much ups and downs in our emotions, but the constant load of subconecious fear and desire creates a drop in that balance, and to get out of it we seek distractions in the form of entertainment, excessive work etc. And as soon as the distraction is gone, the subconscious imbalance bubbles up again. That makes us emotional junkies, always trying to escape our own subconscious state of mind. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > <Roberibus111@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " > <skywords@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > > > <Roberibus111@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " > > > <s.petersilge@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Noel > <noel_beau@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Dear Noel, > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >>the only way to know of fear is through thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hello Stefan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >It appears by the way you phrase your comments that > > > > > > > > > > >you 'believe' you possess absolute truth. I do not > > > > > > > > > > >make such a claim. I can only speak for my own > > > > > > > > > > >seeing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >In my seeing your absolute truth is not true. It > > > > > > > > > > >relates only to the psychological. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Best wishes to you, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Noel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Noel! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From what you write it does not become clear to me > in > > > what > > > > > way > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > disagree and of course you are not obliged to > justify > > > your > > > > > > > > > > disagreement. But allow me to say, I do not believe > in > > > > > anything > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > " absolute truth " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can only speak from my own experience and I try > to be > > > > > > > reasonable > > > > > > > > > (to > > > > > > > > > > avoid the word " logical " ). I have come a long way > to > > > find > > > > > > > myself > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > I am now and who knows where it still will go. Now > > > simply > > > > > try > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > walk > > > > > > > > > > in my shoes for a few minutes and then see yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes! > > > > > > > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't mean to butt in Stephan, but are you absolutely > > > sure > > > > > their > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > no absolutes? truth or otherwise? are you absolutely > sure > > > of > > > > > or > > > > > > > hold > > > > > > > > > belief in anything....absolutely? this is not meant > as a > > > > > trick > > > > > > > > > question.just curious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ..bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > most things are relative > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > some, including this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no biggie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no smallie either > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after all this ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > you're suddenly going to get middie > > > > > > > > > > > > on us? > > > > > > > > > > > > (no middie) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > I always use midi to compose and record. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > > > midi > > > > > > > > uses > > > > > > > > > > > > U > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > I am INTERFACE....using all used by none....secret and secure and > > > hidden to all....like Interpol. > > > > > > > ie, we ARE the police > > > > > > > > ... > > > teriific band too.and Sting is still a swinger and a stinger of a > singer. > cool yoga practices .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > >Fear and suffering can probably be avoided. There are reasons to > >believe that fear is caused by a chemical imbalance in body and mind. > > > >al. > > Hi Al! > > Why should it be avoided when the very attempt to avoid it is the > root for the suffering? > > Greetings > Stefan > Hi Stefan, In a healthy state our emotions go up and down. In an unhealthy state there is a constant emotional background of a 'down' state. Avoidance does not heal this gap. Only a returning to balance is the cure. Stress-related diseases like cancer and heart diseases are a huge problem in developed countries. I suspect that the root cause of this problem is the constant subconscious load of unprocessed emotions. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman wrote: >Only a returning to balance is the cure. Or, as Nisargadatta has expressed it (from I am That): " You are always seeking pleasure, avoiding pain, always after happiness and peace. Don't you see that it is your very search for happiness that makes you feel miserable? Try the other way: indifferent to pain and pleasure, neither asking, nor refusing, give all your attention to the level on which 'I am' is timelessly present. " All the best Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > >Only a returning to balance is the cure. > > Or, as Nisargadatta has expressed it (from I am That): > > " You are always seeking pleasure, avoiding pain, always after > happiness and peace. Don't you see that it is your very search for > happiness that makes you feel miserable? Try the other way: > indifferent to pain and pleasure, neither asking, nor refusing, give > all your attention to the level on which 'I am' is timelessly present. " > > All the best > Stefan > Yes! Fear and pleasure related to thinking is about past memories and projections from those memories into images of the future. Both fear and pleasure TOGETHER create a pull towards ideas of possible futures. That is perfectly fine for planning our future and for thinking about what to do in the future. The problem comes when this pull is CONSTANT on a subconscious level. Then it becomes a friction, a tug of war between the now and the constant subconscious pulling into future. This friction can for example be felt as a background of anxiety, restlessness or boredom. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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