Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 i. live love (gestation*) *life time ii. live love (gestation*) *life time iii. do you have time to love? do you love time? does time love you? (not clever, urgent, intense, extreme) ~ the pace of love ~ with the velocity or the viscosity and precision of decision: we will or kill the organicity tender lifestream of lovesdream which can only grow at the speed of slow serene incremental elemental nonjudgmental grain growing green along nestled hillside in the mist germination gestation generation vi. the gradual graceful turning of your wrist from clutching that which to opening revealing blessing as once you so wished v. love moves grows at the speed of gestation love is gestation vi. life time .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > > do you love > > > > time? > This is an important question. I use to say that we must become " friends " with time. Otherwise we suffer from chronophobia. My own relationship with time is desire/fear. That is chronophobia. How to cure chronophobia? I don't know. Somehow one must be able to " live in the now " , but that also means being able to handle the future. And we must be able to deal with the future without having to cling to it all the time (consciously or subconsciously), because such clinging IS chronophobia. We must be spontaneous, but in such way that we deal with the future in a correct manner. And we can only accept such a spontaneuos state if it is BETTER and more intelligent than our usual life of planning and making choices. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > do you love > > > > > > > > time? > > > > This is an important question. I use to say that we must become > " friends " with time. Otherwise we suffer from chronophobia. My own > relationship with time is desire/fear. That is chronophobia. > > How to cure chronophobia? I don't know. Somehow one must be able to > " live in the now " , but that also means being able to handle the > future. And we must be able to deal with the future without having to > cling to it all the time (consciously or subconsciously), because such > clinging IS chronophobia. > > We must be spontaneous, but in such way that we deal with the future > in a correct manner. And we can only accept such a spontaneuos state > if it is BETTER and more intelligent than our usual life of planning > and making choices. > > al. > i admire your openness. i'm delighted to be in the company of one who, like myself, may have also coined the word, 'chronophobia.' my response to zeus's mythical castration of his father, chronus, is to see it as a peculiarly western compulsion. when i no longer project malice to chronus, and see time as eternity, the now as forever, i find serenity herein. i loose my concern for spontaneity, and the immediate. rather, i merely seep down into the timeless. beyond doing or not doing. merely floating in the spaciousness of whateverness. being from within. being both time and timelessness. time as self not other perhaps if one banishes the sense that time comes from without? ? .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > do you love > > > > > > > > > > > > time? > > > > > > > This is an important question. I use to say that we must become > > " friends " with time. Otherwise we suffer from chronophobia. My own > > relationship with time is desire/fear. That is chronophobia. > > > > How to cure chronophobia? I don't know. Somehow one must be able to > > " live in the now " , but that also means being able to handle the > > future. And we must be able to deal with the future without having to > > cling to it all the time (consciously or subconsciously), because such > > clinging IS chronophobia. > > > > We must be spontaneous, but in such way that we deal with the future > > in a correct manner. And we can only accept such a spontaneuos state > > if it is BETTER and more intelligent than our usual life of planning > > and making choices. > > > > al. > > > > > i admire your openness. i'm delighted to be in the company of one > who, like myself, may have also coined the word, 'chronophobia.' > > my response to zeus's mythical castration of his father, chronus, is > to see it as a peculiarly western compulsion. > > when i no longer project malice to chronus, and see time as eternity, > the now as forever, i find serenity herein. > > i loose my concern for spontaneity, and the immediate. rather, i > merely seep down into the timeless. beyond doing or not doing. > merely floating in the spaciousness of whateverness. > > being from within. > > being both time and timelessness. > > time as self > > not other > > perhaps if one banishes the sense that time comes from without? > > ? > Chronophobia is it seems not a usual word, but I suspect that this is only because virtually all people suffer from it! Time never comes from without? Very interesting idea. I must ponder this for a while. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > do you love > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time? > > > > > > > > > > This is an important question. I use to say that we must become > > > " friends " with time. Otherwise we suffer from chronophobia. My own > > > relationship with time is desire/fear. That is chronophobia. > > > > > > How to cure chronophobia? I don't know. Somehow one must be able to > > > " live in the now " , but that also means being able to handle the > > > future. And we must be able to deal with the future without having to > > > cling to it all the time (consciously or subconsciously), because such > > > clinging IS chronophobia. > > > > > > We must be spontaneous, but in such way that we deal with the future > > > in a correct manner. And we can only accept such a spontaneuos state > > > if it is BETTER and more intelligent than our usual life of planning > > > and making choices. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > i admire your openness. i'm delighted to be in the company of one > > who, like myself, may have also coined the word, 'chronophobia.' > > > > my response to zeus's mythical castration of his father, chronus, is > > to see it as a peculiarly western compulsion. > > > > when i no longer project malice to chronus, and see time as eternity, > > the now as forever, i find serenity herein. > > > > i loose my concern for spontaneity, and the immediate. rather, i > > merely seep down into the timeless. beyond doing or not doing. > > merely floating in the spaciousness of whateverness. > > > > being from within. > > > > being both time and timelessness. > > > > time as self > > > > not other > > > > perhaps if one banishes the sense that time comes from without? > > > > ? > > > > Chronophobia is it seems not a usual word, but I suspect that this is > only because virtually all people suffer from it! > > Time never comes from without? Very interesting idea. I must ponder > this for a while. > > al. > thank you P.S.: when i drive through the rear view mirror of 'chronophobia' i don't seem to get as far and 'fast' as when i look straight ahead through 'chronophilia' ? (no no ~ don't know yes yes ~ works best one seems forward other seems backward) .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do you love > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time? > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is an important question. I use to say that we must become > > > > " friends " with time. Otherwise we suffer from chronophobia. My own > > > > relationship with time is desire/fear. That is chronophobia. > > > > > > > > How to cure chronophobia? I don't know. Somehow one must be able to > > > > " live in the now " , but that also means being able to handle the > > > > future. And we must be able to deal with the future without > having to > > > > cling to it all the time (consciously or subconsciously), > because such > > > > clinging IS chronophobia. > > > > > > > > We must be spontaneous, but in such way that we deal with the future > > > > in a correct manner. And we can only accept such a spontaneuos state > > > > if it is BETTER and more intelligent than our usual life of planning > > > > and making choices. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > i admire your openness. i'm delighted to be in the company of one > > > who, like myself, may have also coined the word, 'chronophobia.' > > > > > > my response to zeus's mythical castration of his father, chronus, is > > > to see it as a peculiarly western compulsion. > > > > > > when i no longer project malice to chronus, and see time as eternity, > > > the now as forever, i find serenity herein. > > > > > > i loose my concern for spontaneity, and the immediate. rather, i > > > merely seep down into the timeless. beyond doing or not doing. > > > merely floating in the spaciousness of whateverness. > > > > > > being from within. > > > > > > being both time and timelessness. > > > > > > time as self > > > > > > not other > > > > > > perhaps if one banishes the sense that time comes from without? > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > Chronophobia is it seems not a usual word, but I suspect that this is > > only because virtually all people suffer from it! > > > > Time never comes from without? Very interesting idea. I must ponder > > this for a while. > > > > al. > > > > > > > thank you > > > > > > P.S.: > > > > > > when i drive through the rear view mirror of 'chronophobia' > > i don't seem to get as far and 'fast' as > > > > when i look straight ahead through > > 'chronophilia' > > > ? > > > > (no no ~ don't know > > yes yes ~ works best > > > one seems forward > > other seems backward) > > > > > > > > > > ... > Well here's my poetic take on live love life and time: PICASSO Picasso had his way with me last night, He rearranged my face and I awakened To an altered reality, My left eye was like a Star of Bethlehem Shining in the back of my head, That I may see where I have been, To be assured — To answer my question — Have I have been walking along the right path? And I was blessed with 20/20 hindsight, An optical illusion, How the darkness meets the light. My right eye was just under my left foot, Gathering dust from the ground I still walk upon, Even as my soul wanders into an ever-present, Dark infinity, just beyond my tenuous grasp Into daybreak, Into the songs of a meadowlark, Into the blades of grass, my homecoming A masterpiece in vibrating colours and mystical Sounds. My nose disappeared altogether, It clung to the seascape just ahead of me, Breathing deep from the ocean, The deepest blue, And the brine had marked its passage Along the bridge, And I saw a starfish bow, and The songs of kelp were turquoise, with Smatterings of fuchsia. And I wondered what he did with my lips, Were they sealed in some blooming desert? Amoung the parched white bones of frightened creatures Burned by the sun? Were they hanging on the cross, Painted in the timber? Silenced for eternity? Picasso rearranged my face last night, Freed my lusty soul. as appeared in bewilderingstories.com p.s. sky did we drink from the same well??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do you love > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time? > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is an important question. I use to say that we must become > > > > " friends " with time. Otherwise we suffer from chronophobia. My own > > > > relationship with time is desire/fear. That is chronophobia. > > > > > > > > How to cure chronophobia? I don't know. Somehow one must be able to > > > > " live in the now " , but that also means being able to handle the > > > > future. And we must be able to deal with the future without > having to > > > > cling to it all the time (consciously or subconsciously), > because such > > > > clinging IS chronophobia. > > > > > > > > We must be spontaneous, but in such way that we deal with the future > > > > in a correct manner. And we can only accept such a spontaneuos state > > > > if it is BETTER and more intelligent than our usual life of planning > > > > and making choices. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > i admire your openness. i'm delighted to be in the company of one > > > who, like myself, may have also coined the word, 'chronophobia.' > > > > > > my response to zeus's mythical castration of his father, chronus, is > > > to see it as a peculiarly western compulsion. > > > > > > when i no longer project malice to chronus, and see time as eternity, > > > the now as forever, i find serenity herein. > > > > > > i loose my concern for spontaneity, and the immediate. rather, i > > > merely seep down into the timeless. beyond doing or not doing. > > > merely floating in the spaciousness of whateverness. > > > > > > being from within. > > > > > > being both time and timelessness. > > > > > > time as self > > > > > > not other > > > > > > perhaps if one banishes the sense that time comes from without? > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > Chronophobia is it seems not a usual word, but I suspect that this is > > only because virtually all people suffer from it! > > > > Time never comes from without? Very interesting idea. I must ponder > > this for a while. > > > > al. > > > > > > > thank you > > > > > > P.S.: > > > > > > when i drive through the rear view mirror of 'chronophobia' > > i don't seem to get as far and 'fast' as > > > > when i look straight ahead through > > 'chronophilia' > > > ? > > > > (no no ~ don't know > > yes yes ~ works best > > > one seems forward > > other seems backward) > > > > > > > > > > ... > Phobias and philias both create a forward pull. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do you love > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is an important question. I use to say that we must become > > > > > " friends " with time. Otherwise we suffer from chronophobia. My own > > > > > relationship with time is desire/fear. That is chronophobia. > > > > > > > > > > How to cure chronophobia? I don't know. Somehow one must be > able to > > > > > " live in the now " , but that also means being able to handle the > > > > > future. And we must be able to deal with the future without > > having to > > > > > cling to it all the time (consciously or subconsciously), > > because such > > > > > clinging IS chronophobia. > > > > > > > > > > We must be spontaneous, but in such way that we deal with the > future > > > > > in a correct manner. And we can only accept such a spontaneuos > state > > > > > if it is BETTER and more intelligent than our usual life of > planning > > > > > and making choices. > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i admire your openness. i'm delighted to be in the company of one > > > > who, like myself, may have also coined the word, 'chronophobia.' > > > > > > > > my response to zeus's mythical castration of his father, chronus, is > > > > to see it as a peculiarly western compulsion. > > > > > > > > when i no longer project malice to chronus, and see time as > eternity, > > > > the now as forever, i find serenity herein. > > > > > > > > i loose my concern for spontaneity, and the immediate. rather, i > > > > merely seep down into the timeless. beyond doing or not doing. > > > > merely floating in the spaciousness of whateverness. > > > > > > > > being from within. > > > > > > > > being both time and timelessness. > > > > > > > > time as self > > > > > > > > not other > > > > > > > > perhaps if one banishes the sense that time comes from without? > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > Chronophobia is it seems not a usual word, but I suspect that this is > > > only because virtually all people suffer from it! > > > > > > Time never comes from without? Very interesting idea. I must ponder > > > this for a while. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > thank you > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S.: > > > > > > > > > > > > when i drive through the rear view mirror of 'chronophobia' > > > > i don't seem to get as far and 'fast' as > > > > > > > > when i look straight ahead through > > > > 'chronophilia' > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > (no no ~ don't know > > > > yes yes ~ works best > > > > > > one seems forward > > > > other seems backward) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > Phobias and philias both create a forward pull. > > al. > the difference between the carrot and the stick is the difference between love and abuse .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > > the difference between the carrot and the stick > > is the difference between love and abuse > Desire is like a carrot. Fear is like a stick. Problem arises when we try to eat the carrot all the time. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > the difference between the carrot and the stick > > > > is the difference between love and abuse > > > > Desire is like a carrot. Fear is like a stick. Problem arises when we > try to eat the carrot all the time. > > al. > My dearest al., did you forget even for a moment I Am is the result of the mother of all desires: TO BE. love, Anna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > the difference between the carrot and the stick > > > > is the difference between love and abuse > > > > Desire is like a carrot. Fear is like a stick. Problem arises when we > try to eat the carrot all the time. > > al. > that would be fear .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > the difference between the carrot and the stick > > > > > > is the difference between love and abuse > > > > > > > Desire is like a carrot. Fear is like a stick. Problem arises when > we > > try to eat the carrot all the time. > > > > al. > > > > > My dearest al., > > did you forget even for a moment I Am is the result of the mother of > all desires: TO BE. > > love, > Anna. > Hi a. I hadn't thought about it like that before. But that could be true. The desire I described was the desire to become. To become this or that. That is a perfectly valid desire too. The problem comes when this desire is always 'on', and only in dreamless sleep becomes 'off'. This constant state of on creates stress. I am trying to figure out if it's possible to soften up this hardened 'on' state into a more fluid and flexible state. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > the difference between the carrot and the stick > > > > > > is the difference between love and abuse > > > > > > > Desire is like a carrot. Fear is like a stick. Problem arises when we > > try to eat the carrot all the time. > > > > al. > > > > > > that would be fear > > But is desire fear? I think of it more like fear as being always there as a stick hitting us when we try to eat the carrot all the time. That maybe also means that fear is not a forward pull as I said before, but instead a break for stopping desire to run amuck. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > the difference between the carrot and the stick > > > > > > > > is the difference between love and abuse > > > > > > > > > > Desire is like a carrot. Fear is like a stick. Problem arises when we > > > try to eat the carrot all the time. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > that would be fear > > > > > > But is desire fear? I think of it more like fear as being always there > as a stick hitting us when we try to eat the carrot all the time. That > maybe also means that fear is not a forward pull as I said before, but > instead a break for stopping desire to run amuck. > > al. > how about the stepping outside of fear, desire etc etc ? isn't that what already redifines everything? looking at it just looking at it from spaciousness isn't that already it ? isn't that already love ? .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the difference between the carrot and the stick > > > > > > > > > > is the difference between love and abuse > > > > > > > > > > > > > Desire is like a carrot. Fear is like a stick. Problem arises > when we > > > > try to eat the carrot all the time. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that would be fear > > > > > > > > > > But is desire fear? I think of it more like fear as being always there > > as a stick hitting us when we try to eat the carrot all the time. That > > maybe also means that fear is not a forward pull as I said before, but > > instead a break for stopping desire to run amuck. > > > > al. > > how about > > > > the > > stepping outside > > of fear, desire > > etc > > etc > > ? > > > > isn't that what > > already redifines > > > > > everything? > > > > looking at it > > > > just > > looking > > at > > it > from spaciousness > > > > > > isn't that already > > it > > > ? > > isn't that already > love > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > The problem is that we can have all sorts of understandings in our conscious mind, but if the subconscious is not aligned with the conscious mind there will still be conflict. There is always a looking from the " I " , but the conscious mind is only like the tip of an iceberg, with the subconscious mind as the massive below the surface. You can be a professor in Advaita yet still have a subconscious mind that is creating some nasty conflicts in your life. So it's not enough to only have an intellectual understanding however complete and profound that understanding is. Go into the body. How does it feel within? Can you feel anything at all, or have years of emotional repression numbed out many areas within the body? Are there contractions; physical, emotional or mental? My guess is that for there to be love, there must be harmony in one's being. Intellectual " love " will only be an abstract and shallow thing. And emotional " love " is merely a temporary conditional high. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the difference between the carrot and the stick > > > > > > > > > > > > is the difference between love and abuse > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Desire is like a carrot. Fear is like a stick. Problem arises > > when we > > > > > try to eat the carrot all the time. > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that would be fear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But is desire fear? I think of it more like fear as being always there > > > as a stick hitting us when we try to eat the carrot all the time. That > > > maybe also means that fear is not a forward pull as I said before, but > > > instead a break for stopping desire to run amuck. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how about > > > > > > > > the > > > > stepping outside > > > > of fear, desire > > > > etc > > > > etc > > > > ? > > > > > > > > isn't that what > > > > already redifines > > > > > > > > > > everything? > > > > > > > > looking at it > > > > > > > > just > > > > looking > > > > at > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from spaciousness > > > > > > > > > > > > isn't that already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > isn't that already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > love > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > The problem is that we can have all sorts of understandings in our > conscious mind, but if the subconscious is not aligned with the > conscious mind there will still be conflict. > > There is always a looking from the " I " , but the conscious mind is only > like the tip of an iceberg, with the subconscious mind as the massive > below the surface. > > You can be a professor in Advaita yet still have a subconscious mind > that is creating some nasty conflicts in your life. So it's not enough > to only have an intellectual understanding however complete and > profound that understanding is. > > Go into the body. How does it feel within? Can you feel anything at > all, or have years of emotional repression numbed out many areas > within the body? Are there contractions; physical, emotional or mental? > > My guess is that for there to be love, there must be harmony in one's > being. Intellectual " love " will only be an abstract and shallow thing. > And emotional " love " is merely a temporary conditional high. > > al. > yes on your every point. the word aligns mind and body nis offered matra which enters deep and immediate try spacious ? works for me ~ for how long? as long as i use it effortless sensitive subtle eternal .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman wrote: >The problem is that we can have all sorts of understandings in our >conscious mind, but if the subconscious is not aligned with the >conscious mind there will still be conflict. Hi al, well then: align your sub- with your consciousness! Or have you already done it? If not, what are you waiting for? But alas, the problem is: there is nothing like " sub-consciousness " . Already the " consciousness " to which this " sub-consciousness " refers is nothing but a name for a conceptual conglomerate, completely illusory. So, what to say about a sub-consciousness? Just another drawer where one can put all those things that one does not want to look at. And the aim is always the same: instead of becoming a grown up it is much more convenient to have some instances at hand which can be made responsible for all those bad things that happen. And here are the good news: what there is, is. As it comes it is already gone. And it does not ask for our approval. All the best Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau wrote: > > > > Indeed. > > It seems to me to simply be *earnestly* *allowing* > anything and everything into consciousness, at some > point what is subconscious arises to consciousness as > well. > > Noel > Learned behavior is somehow stored into the subconscious. We learn to drive a car, and when have been used to driving a car, all the driving can be taken care of by the subconscious mind, such as when we are lost in thinking and then suddenly " wake up " to realize that we have been driving for several miles without even thinking about it. The same with many other patterns about how we deal with the world. They are stored in the subconscious mind since birth. Many of those patterns are " hidden " to the conscious mind, so we can read a lot of spiritual books and collect a full understanding on an intellectual level, but all those subconscious pattern stored from birth to present day are still there below the surface. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau wrote: > > > > --- anders_lindman <anders_lindman wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , Noel > > <noel_beau@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Indeed. > > > > > > It seems to me to simply be *earnestly* *allowing* > > > anything and everything into consciousness, at > > some > > > point what is subconscious arises to consciousness > > as > > > well. > > > > > > Noel > > > > > > > Learned behavior is somehow stored into the > > subconscious. We learn > > to drive a car, and when have been used to driving a > > car, all the > > driving can be taken care of by the subconscious > > mind, such as when > > we are lost in thinking and then suddenly " wake up " > > to realize that > > we have been driving for several miles without even > > thinking about > > it. > > > > The same with many other patterns about how we deal > > with the world. > > They are stored in the subconscious mind since > > birth. Many of those > > patterns are " hidden " to the conscious mind, so we > > can read a lot of > > spiritual books and collect a full understanding on > > an intellectual > > level, but all those subconscious pattern stored > > from birth to > > present day are still there below the surface. > > > > al. > > > > > Yes. One does not have to simply stay rooted in it. > > One can begin by, if you want to use the example of > driving, observing one's self while driving...become > aware of the the sensations or feelings in the body, > the facial expression, the grip of hands on the wheel, > the attitude towards other drivers...all of it. > > One does not have to remain a machine. > > Noel > Exactly. I think that is a way to become more consciously aware of the subconscious. Maybe even a way to start integrating the conscious and the subconscious. In my experience this is a difficult and slow practice even though simple in theory. But it feels like it can gradually generate concrete results. So that makes it interesting. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > >The problem is that we can have all sorts of understandings in our > >conscious mind, but if the subconscious is not aligned with the > >conscious mind there will still be conflict. > > Hi al, > > well then: align your sub- with your consciousness! Or have you > already done it? If not, what are you waiting for? > > But alas, the problem is: there is nothing like " sub- consciousness " . > Already the " consciousness " to which this " sub-consciousness " refers > is nothing but a name for a conceptual conglomerate, completely > illusory. So, what to say about a sub-consciousness? Just another > drawer where one can put all those things that one does not want to > look at. And the aim is always the same: instead of becoming a grown > up it is much more convenient to have some instances at hand which can > be made responsible for all those bad things that happen. > > And here are the good news: what there is, is. As it comes it is > already gone. And it does not ask for our approval. > > All the best > Stefan > I dont have what it takes to become a grown up... who does ? ....iietsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau wrote: > > > > --- anders_lindman <anders_lindman wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , Noel > > <noel_beau@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- anders_lindman <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Noel > > > > <noel_beau@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Indeed. > > > > > > > > > > It seems to me to simply be *earnestly* > > *allowing* > > > > > anything and everything into consciousness, at > > > > some > > > > > point what is subconscious arises to > > consciousness > > > > as > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > Noel > > > > > > > > > > > > > Learned behavior is somehow stored into the > > > > subconscious. We learn > > > > to drive a car, and when have been used to > > driving a > > > > car, all the > > > > driving can be taken care of by the subconscious > > > > mind, such as when > > > > we are lost in thinking and then suddenly " wake > > up " > > > > to realize that > > > > we have been driving for several miles without > > even > > > > thinking about > > > > it. > > > > > > > > The same with many other patterns about how we > > deal > > > > with the world. > > > > They are stored in the subconscious mind since > > > > birth. Many of those > > > > patterns are " hidden " to the conscious mind, so > > we > > > > can read a lot of > > > > spiritual books and collect a full understanding > > on > > > > an intellectual > > > > level, but all those subconscious pattern stored > > > > from birth to > > > > present day are still there below the surface. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. One does not have to simply stay rooted in > > it. > > > > > > One can begin by, if you want to use the example > > of > > > driving, observing one's self while > > driving...become > > > aware of the the sensations or feelings in the > > body, > > > the facial expression, the grip of hands on the > > wheel, > > > the attitude towards other drivers...all of it. > > > > > > One does not have to remain a machine. > > > > > > Noel > > > > > > > Exactly. I think that is a way to become more > > consciously aware of the > > subconscious. Maybe even a way to start integrating > > the conscious and > > the subconscious. In my experience this is a > > difficult and slow > > practice even though simple in theory. But it feels > > like it can > > gradually generate concrete results. So that makes > > it interesting. > > > > al. > > > > For me, it is slow, indeed. It seems to be a natural > process for the most part. By this I mean it cannot > be forced. The body will give up its secrets when it > will. Wilhelm Reich's work has been helpful in this > regard. > > Noel > I have seen several references to Wilhelm Reich lately. I must check out what he was saying. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- anders_lindman <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , Noel > > > <noel_beau@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- anders_lindman <anders_lindman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Noel > > > > > <noel_beau@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Indeed. > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems to me to simply be *earnestly* > > > *allowing* > > > > > > anything and everything into consciousness, at > > > > > some > > > > > > point what is subconscious arises to > > > consciousness > > > > > as > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > Noel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Learned behavior is somehow stored into the > > > > > subconscious. We learn > > > > > to drive a car, and when have been used to > > > driving a > > > > > car, all the > > > > > driving can be taken care of by the subconscious > > > > > mind, such as when > > > > > we are lost in thinking and then suddenly " wake > > > up " > > > > > to realize that > > > > > we have been driving for several miles without > > > even > > > > > thinking about > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > The same with many other patterns about how we > > > deal > > > > > with the world. > > > > > They are stored in the subconscious mind since > > > > > birth. Many of those > > > > > patterns are " hidden " to the conscious mind, so > > > we > > > > > can read a lot of > > > > > spiritual books and collect a full understanding > > > on > > > > > an intellectual > > > > > level, but all those subconscious pattern stored > > > > > from birth to > > > > > present day are still there below the surface. > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. One does not have to simply stay rooted in > > > it. > > > > > > > > One can begin by, if you want to use the example > > > of > > > > driving, observing one's self while > > > driving...become > > > > aware of the the sensations or feelings in the > > > body, > > > > the facial expression, the grip of hands on the > > > wheel, > > > > the attitude towards other drivers...all of it. > > > > > > > > One does not have to remain a machine. > > > > > > > > Noel > > > > > > > > > > Exactly. I think that is a way to become more > > > consciously aware of the > > > subconscious. Maybe even a way to start integrating > > > the conscious and > > > the subconscious. In my experience this is a > > > difficult and slow > > > practice even though simple in theory. But it feels > > > like it can > > > gradually generate concrete results. So that makes > > > it interesting. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > For me, it is slow, indeed. It seems to be a natural > > process for the most part. By this I mean it cannot > > be forced. The body will give up its secrets when it > > will. Wilhelm Reich's work has been helpful in this > > regard. > > > > Noel > > > > I have seen several references to Wilhelm Reich lately. I must check > out what he was saying. > > al. > his work is very checkered melodramatic ~ culminating in genuine insanity the western tradition is full of false novelty i'd check into the kundalini tradition it's much longer and also deals with the body's energy system but in a more measured stable way plus: there's a huge support network out there: on line and elsewhere. .... .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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