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B; You think *I* am agressive????

> > I'm the one that historically has been considered the wimpy,

> > milk-toasty nice guy. Pete should get a real laugh out of this.

> > Have I morphed into a fierce Thor-type throwing thunderbolts

> > without my realizing it?

 

P: Leaving aside personalities, the broader issue

is methodology. Is it confrontation a valid teaching

tool? Which teaching style worked best: Ramana's,

or Nis'? Was Ramana milk-toasty, and Nis aggressive?

Who helped more people? Hard to say. Do we

have the right to inflict mental pain by pointing faults,

specially, in this kind of forums where no one said to

anyone teach me please? Is there a tacit understanding

here that if you post, you agreed to teach, and be taught?

 

What level of confrontation is acceptable in these lists? It's

curious to note that I have posted every day for 4 years

to several lists, and never once, have I been placed in

moderation, while many of the people I confronted were

either banned, moderated, or left on their own accord.

 

Being nice, or blunt are tools to be used or not. Even

Bernardette Roberts ( a popular Christian contemplative)

is said to be very confrontational in her Q & A sessions.

No tool is universal, the job dictates the tool. Masons use

cement, the wrecking crew use jackhammers. To conclude

that masons are less aggressive than the wrecking guy is to

confuse the tool, the user, and the task.

 

Pete

 

 

 

 

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Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5 wrote:

>

> B; You think *I* am agressive????

> > > I'm the one that historically has been considered the wimpy,

> > > milk-toasty nice guy. Pete should get a real laugh out of this.

> > > Have I morphed into a fierce Thor-type throwing thunderbolts

> > > without my realizing it?

>

> P: Leaving aside personalities, the broader issue

> is methodology. Is it confrontation a valid teaching

> tool? Which teaching style worked best: Ramana's,

> or Nis'? Was Ramana milk-toasty, and Nis aggressive?

> Who helped more people? Hard to say. Do we

> have the right to inflict mental pain by pointing faults,

> specially, in this kind of forums where no one said to

> anyone teach me please? Is there a tacit understanding

> here that if you post, you agreed to teach, and be taught?

>

> What level of confrontation is acceptable in these lists? It's

> curious to note that I have posted every day for 4 years

> to several lists, and never once, have I been placed in

> moderation, while many of the people I confronted were

> either banned, moderated, or left on their own accord.

>

> Being nice, or blunt are tools to be used or not. Even

> Bernardette Roberts ( a popular Christian contemplative)

> is said to be very confrontational in her Q & A sessions.

> No tool is universal, the job dictates the tool. Masons use

> cement, the wrecking crew use jackhammers. To conclude

> that masons are less aggressive than the wrecking guy is to

> confuse the tool, the user, and the task.

>

> Pete

>

>

 

 

What many psychologists find

 

is that we immitate those in power.

 

 

So, when we hear,

 

" do as I say, not as I do, "

 

it is precisely that hypocricy

 

that is learned.

 

 

If Nis were to angrily assert,

 

" Don't get angry!, "

 

his followers would

 

angrily assert that

 

they aren't angry

 

and that neither should others

 

so be.

 

 

In other words,

 

punishment teaches people

 

to be punitive.

 

 

 

Aggression teaches

 

 

Aggression.

 

 

 

 

Is that what you want to teach?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

....

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Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5 wrote:

>

> B; You think *I* am agressive????

> > > I'm the one that historically has been considered the wimpy,

> > > milk-toasty nice guy. Pete should get a real laugh out of this.

> > > Have I morphed into a fierce Thor-type throwing thunderbolts

> > > without my realizing it?

>

> P: Leaving aside personalities, the broader issue

> is methodology. Is it confrontation a valid teaching

> tool? Which teaching style worked best: Ramana's,

> or Nis'? Was Ramana milk-toasty, and Nis aggressive?

> Who helped more people? Hard to say. Do we

> have the right to inflict mental pain by pointing faults,

> specially, in this kind of forums where no one said to

> anyone teach me please? Is there a tacit understanding

> here that if you post, you agreed to teach, and be taught?

>

> What level of confrontation is acceptable in these lists? It's

> curious to note that I have posted every day for 4 years

> to several lists, and never once, have I been placed in

> moderation, while many of the people I confronted were

> either banned, moderated, or left on their own accord.

>

> Being nice, or blunt are tools to be used or not. Even

> Bernardette Roberts ( a popular Christian contemplative)

> is said to be very confrontational in her Q & A sessions.

> No tool is universal, the job dictates the tool. Masons use

> cement, the wrecking crew use jackhammers. To conclude

> that masons are less aggressive than the wrecking guy is to

> confuse the tool, the user, and the task.

>

> Pete

 

Eloquently stated.

And I think I pretty much agree as well : )

 

Ramana and Nisargadatta do make an interesting

study in contrasts. Ramana is said to have often

completely transformed a person simply by looking

at them. I find that pretty impressive. Nisargadatta

seemed to work with the mind more than Ramana, to

back the person into a corner led by their own

assumptions.

 

Much is made of how confrontational Nis was, but

I have found in reading the dialogs carefully that

so often he would patiently meet the questioner

in terms of the questioner's assumptions, and then

lead him into the corner those assumptions implied.

So I see him as being very sensitive and compassionate

in that kind of process. Reading the dialogs, the

places where he really gives someone hell is typically

re someone who is puffed up about what he knows and

is wanting to show that off. Nis had no patience for

that kind of thing.

 

My personal feeling about confrontation on these lists

is that if a person says no thanks then it is not

appropriate to dog them. I rest confident that Pit-Bull

Pete will not resonate with that view. :)

 

Bill

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Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5 wrote:

>

> B; You think *I* am agressive????

> > > I'm the one that historically has been considered the wimpy,

> > > milk-toasty nice guy. Pete should get a real laugh out of

this.

> > > Have I morphed into a fierce Thor-type throwing thunderbolts

> > > without my realizing it?

>

> P: Leaving aside personalities, the broader issue

> is methodology. Is it confrontation a valid teaching

> tool? Which teaching style worked best: Ramana's,

> or Nis'? Was Ramana milk-toasty, and Nis aggressive?

> Who helped more people? Hard to say. Do we

> have the right to inflict mental pain by pointing faults,

> specially, in this kind of forums where no one said to

> anyone teach me please? Is there a tacit understanding

> here that if you post, you agreed to teach, and be taught?

>

> What level of confrontation is acceptable in these lists? It's

> curious to note that I have posted every day for 4 years

> to several lists, and never once, have I been placed in

> moderation, while many of the people I confronted were

> either banned, moderated, or left on their own accord.

 

 

is this a badge of honor thing for you? my, my.. you are of course

welcome to blow your own horn....NOT ONCE you say.......goodness

gracious sakes alive!...but it is curious. a braggart, or just

another great truism that has it's own meaning?........regarding your

perfect record and just plain perfection... clap...clap....clap..

clap..clap...good for you! a gold stickum star on top of your post

here!

 

 

 

> Being nice, or blunt are tools to be used or not. Even

> Bernardette Roberts ( a popular Christian contemplative)

> is said to be very confrontational in her Q & A sessions.

> No tool is universal, the job dictates the tool. Masons use

> cement, the wrecking crew use jackhammers. To conclude

> that masons are less aggressive than the wrecking guy is to

> confuse the tool, the user, and the task.

>

> Pete

 

 

now THIS makes sense.......funny how, if we are open and honest with

ourselves, what golden opportunities of self discovery we can avail

ourselves to with confrontation.......advise is another

matter....that just blows away , denegrates, and belittles the other

(who's now supposed to 'see the wisdom of said advise and follow

through with it's commands of behaviour; and, blows up an ego that

is already out of control in it's belief that the one it believes

itself to represent can improve or better in any manner, any other

living being........that is as delusional and off mark as it gets.

 

.........bob

 

 

 

 

 

>

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Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 "

<Roberibus111 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5@> wrote:

> >

> > B; You think *I* am agressive????

> > > > I'm the one that historically has been considered the

wimpy,

> > > > milk-toasty nice guy. Pete should get a real laugh out of

> this.

> > > > Have I morphed into a fierce Thor-type throwing

thunderbolts

> > > > without my realizing it?

> >

> > P: Leaving aside personalities, the broader issue

> > is methodology. Is it confrontation a valid teaching

> > tool? Which teaching style worked best: Ramana's,

> > or Nis'? Was Ramana milk-toasty, and Nis aggressive?

> > Who helped more people? Hard to say. Do we

> > have the right to inflict mental pain by pointing faults,

> > specially, in this kind of forums where no one said to

> > anyone teach me please? Is there a tacit understanding

> > here that if you post, you agreed to teach, and be taught?

> >

> > What level of confrontation is acceptable in these lists? It's

> > curious to note that I have posted every day for 4 years

> > to several lists, and never once, have I been placed in

> > moderation, while many of the people I confronted were

> > either banned, moderated, or left on their own accord.

>

>

> is this a badge of honor thing for you? my, my.. you are of course

> welcome to blow your own horn....NOT ONCE you say.......goodness

> gracious sakes alive!...but it is curious. a braggart, or just

> another great truism that has it's own meaning?........regarding

your

> perfect record and just plain perfection...

clap...clap....clap..

> clap..clap...good for you! a gold stickum star on top of your post

> here!

>

>

>

> > Being nice, or blunt are tools to be used or not. Even

> > Bernardette Roberts ( a popular Christian contemplative)

> > is said to be very confrontational in her Q & A sessions.

> > No tool is universal, the job dictates the tool. Masons use

> > cement, the wrecking crew use jackhammers. To conclude

> > that masons are less aggressive than the wrecking guy is to

> > confuse the tool, the user, and the task.

> >

> > Pete

>

>

> now THIS makes sense.......funny how, if we are open and honest

with

> ourselves, what golden opportunities of self discovery we can

avail

> ourselves to with confrontation.......advise is another

> matter....that just blows away , denegrates, and belittles the

other

> (who's now supposed to 'see the wisdom of said advise and follow

> through with it's commands of behaviour; and, blows up an ego

that

> is already out of control in it's belief that the one it believes

> itself to represent can improve or better in any manner, any other

> living being........that is as delusional and off mark as it gets.

>

> .........bob

>

>

>

>

>

> >

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Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 "

> <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5@> wrote:

> > >

> > > B; You think *I* am agressive????

> > > > > I'm the one that historically has been considered the

> wimpy,

> > > > > milk-toasty nice guy. Pete should get a real laugh out of

> > this.

> > > > > Have I morphed into a fierce Thor-type throwing

> thunderbolts

> > > > > without my realizing it?

> > >

> > > P: Leaving aside personalities, the broader issue

> > > is methodology. Is it confrontation a valid teaching

> > > tool? Which teaching style worked best: Ramana's,

> > > or Nis'? Was Ramana milk-toasty, and Nis aggressive?

> > > Who helped more people? Hard to say. Do we

> > > have the right to inflict mental pain by pointing faults,

> > > specially, in this kind of forums where no one said to

> > > anyone teach me please? Is there a tacit understanding

> > > here that if you post, you agreed to teach, and be taught?

> > >

> > > What level of confrontation is acceptable in these lists? It's

> > > curious to note that I have posted every day for 4 years

> > > to several lists, and never once, have I been placed in

> > > moderation, while many of the people I confronted were

> > > either banned, moderated, or left on their own accord.

> >

> >

> > is this a badge of honor thing for you? my, my.. you are of course

> > welcome to blow your own horn....NOT ONCE you say.......goodness

> > gracious sakes alive!...but it is curious. a braggart, or just

> > another great truism that has it's own meaning?........regarding

> your

> > perfect record and just plain perfection...

> clap...clap....clap..

> > clap..clap...good for you! a gold stickum star on top of your post

> > here!

> >

> >

> >

> > > Being nice, or blunt are tools to be used or not. Even

> > > Bernardette Roberts ( a popular Christian contemplative)

> > > is said to be very confrontational in her Q & A sessions.

> > > No tool is universal, the job dictates the tool. Masons use

> > > cement, the wrecking crew use jackhammers. To conclude

> > > that masons are less aggressive than the wrecking guy is to

> > > confuse the tool, the user, and the task.

> > >

> > > Pete

> >

> >

> > now THIS makes sense.......funny how, if we are open and honest

> with

> > ourselves, what golden opportunities of self discovery we can

> avail

> > ourselves to with confrontation.......advise is another

> > matter....that just blows away , denegrates, and belittles the

> other

> > (who's now supposed to 'see the wisdom of said advise and follow

> > through with it's commands of behaviour; and, blows up an ego

> that

> > is already out of control in it's belief that the one it believes

> > itself to represent can improve or better in any manner, any other

> > living being........that is as delusional and off mark as it gets.

> >

> > .........bob

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >

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Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 "

> <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie5@> wrote:

> > >

> > > B; You think *I* am agressive????

> > > > > I'm the one that historically has been considered the

> wimpy,

> > > > > milk-toasty nice guy. Pete should get a real laugh out of

> > this.

> > > > > Have I morphed into a fierce Thor-type throwing

> thunderbolts

> > > > > without my realizing it?

> > >

> > > P: Leaving aside personalities, the broader issue

> > > is methodology. Is it confrontation a valid teaching

> > > tool? Which teaching style worked best: Ramana's,

> > > or Nis'? Was Ramana milk-toasty, and Nis aggressive?

> > > Who helped more people? Hard to say. Do we

> > > have the right to inflict mental pain by pointing faults,

> > > specially, in this kind of forums where no one said to

> > > anyone teach me please? Is there a tacit understanding

> > > here that if you post, you agreed to teach, and be taught?

> > >

> > > What level of confrontation is acceptable in these lists? It's

> > > curious to note that I have posted every day for 4 years

> > > to several lists, and never once, have I been placed in

> > > moderation, while many of the people I confronted were

> > > either banned, moderated, or left on their own accord.

> >

> >

> > is this a badge of honor thing for you? my, my.. you are of course

> > welcome to blow your own horn....NOT ONCE you say.......goodness

> > gracious sakes alive!...but it is curious. a braggart, or just

> > another great truism that has it's own meaning?........regarding

> your

> > perfect record and just plain perfection...

> clap...clap....clap..

> > clap..clap...good for you! a gold stickum star on top of your post

> > here!

> >

> >

> >

> > > Being nice, or blunt are tools to be used or not. Even

> > > Bernardette Roberts ( a popular Christian contemplative)

> > > is said to be very confrontational in her Q & A sessions.

> > > No tool is universal, the job dictates the tool. Masons use

> > > cement, the wrecking crew use jackhammers. To conclude

> > > that masons are less aggressive than the wrecking guy is to

> > > confuse the tool, the user, and the task.

> > >

> > > Pete

> >

> >

> > now THIS makes sense.......funny how, if we are open and honest

> with

> > ourselves, what golden opportunities of self discovery we can

> avail

> > ourselves to with confrontation.......advise is another

> > matter....that just blows away , denegrates, and belittles the

> other

> > (who's now supposed to 'see the wisdom of said advise and follow

> > through with it's commands of behaviour; and, blows up an ego

> that

> > is already out of control in it's belief that the one it believes

> > itself to represent can improve or better in any manner, any other

> > living being........that is as delusional and off mark as it gets.

> >

> > .........bob

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >

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