Guest guest Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 the one who is a slave of the sense organs... is like the one who is slave to ignorance... both are ....One...and Same.....* Marc *lost in time and space.... dreaming about " others " .....to share " misery-peace-bliss " ..... at the feet of ignorance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > >the one who is a slave of the sense organs... >is like the one who is slave to ignorance... > >both are ....One...and Same.....* > > >Marc Yes, surely they are one and the same. And what about the one who believes into someone being enslaved by something else, which is itself a part of him? Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > > > the one who is a slave of the sense organs... > is like the one who is slave to ignorance... > > both are ....One...and Same.....* > > > Marc > > > *lost in time and space.... > > dreaming about " others " .....to share " misery-peace-bliss " ..... > > at the feet of ignorance > is that an invitation? .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > >the one who is a slave of the sense organs... > >is like the one who is slave to ignorance... > > > >both are ....One...and Same.....* > > > > > >Marc > > Yes, surely they are one and the same. And what about the one who > believes into someone being enslaved by something else, which is > itself a part of him? > > Stefan is there someone " who " believes into someone being enslaved by something else....? what could this " something else " be?... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > >the one who is a slave of the sense organs... > > >is like the one who is slave to ignorance... > > > > > >both are ....One...and Same.....* > > > > > > > > >Marc > > > > Yes, surely they are one and the same. And what about the one who > > believes into someone being enslaved by something else, which is > > itself a part of him? > > > > Stefan > > > is there someone " who " believes into someone being enslaved by > something else....? > > what could this " something else " be?... > > Marc Ps: your intelligence....i believe....will lead to some more clearness......surely > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > the one who is a slave of the sense organs... > > is like the one who is slave to ignorance... > > > > both are ....One...and Same.....* > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > *lost in time and space.... > > > > dreaming about " others " .....to share " misery-peace-bliss " ..... > > > > at the feet of ignorance > > > > > is that an invitation? you want to be at the feet of ignorance?.... sharing some ignorance...? you do what you feel to do.... there is nobody...realy ....who care about.... Marc > > > ... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: >the one who is a slave of the sense organs... >is like the one who is slave to ignorance... >both are ....One...and Same.....* Stefan: >Yes, surely they are one and the same. And what about the one who >believes into someone being enslaved by something else, which is >itself a part of him? >Stefan Marc: >is there someone " who " believes into someone being enslaved by >something else....? what could this " something else " be?... Marc, good question: Who? According to your first statement Marc seems to believe in " sense organs " and " ignorance " as if they were externals (or " something else " ) opposed to the slave himself, whom you call " the one " . But I would like to suggest that they are all equally sub-parts of the same entity. So: what if there is no reality behind all those parts. What if they are all imaginations, conditionings, beliefs, constructs. And thus the whole entity, as the sum of all those parts, is questionable. In this case, what sense does it make to call one part slave and the other master? Is such classification not rather maintaining the illusion? ;-) S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > the one who is a slave of the sense organs... > > > is like the one who is slave to ignorance... > > > > > > both are ....One...and Same.....* > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > *lost in time and space.... > > > > > > dreaming about " others " .....to share " misery-peace-bliss " ..... > > > > > > at the feet of ignorance > > > > > > > > > is that an invitation? > > > > you want to be at the feet of ignorance?.... > sharing some ignorance...? > > > > you do what you feel to do.... > > there is nobody...realy ....who care about.... > > > Marc perhaps I shall be Mary Magdalene and wash your feet with my hair, or Veronica and wipe your face with my last veil. 10000 faces of Eve, of the Goddess who loves you as Herself, and 'you' are ever lost in the samsara of words... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > >the one who is a slave of the sense organs... > >is like the one who is slave to ignorance... > >both are ....One...and Same.....* > > Stefan: > >Yes, surely they are one and the same. And what about the one who > >believes into someone being enslaved by something else, which is > >itself a part of him? > >Stefan > > Marc: > >is there someone " who " believes into someone being enslaved by > >something else....? what could this " something else " be?... > > > Marc, good question: Who? Hi Stefan, it seem that you " see " the statement i made....with different eyes.... will try to understand your view.... and also try to explain the above statements clearer... > > According to your first statement Marc seems to believe in " sense > organs " and " ignorance " as if they were externals (or " something > else " ) opposed to the slave himself, whom you call " the one " . But I > would like to suggest that they are all equally sub-parts of the same > entity. i tried simply to express....that " ignorance " can have different " effects " ... as for example the effect of being attached to the " unreal " (ignorance) or being attached to the sense-organs.... both are attachments.....due to ignorance so ignorance is ignorance..... only " One " kind of ignorance existing..... you suggest that " ignorance " is kind of " sub-part " of the " one entity " ? (i suppose that you mean by " one entity " ....: " Oneness " , " One being " .....?) and so....you try to explain that " ignorance " and " enslavement " and also " sense organs " .....are only " ideas " kind of...... means, that due to " ignorance " ......one " percieve " all this only?... i would agree at this point.... but as long we exchange messages in here..... as long there is " Stefan " reading/writing to .. " Marc " ..... there is a flow of words....of " ideas " .....which are words only..... which has nothing realy in common with the " One " ....that we " are " .... one can only meet " others " ....in dreams..... for the real Self....there are no " others " ..... there is nothing but pure and simple being...... no identifications with " bubble1 " , " Marc " , " Stefan " ..... " dream- bubble7 " .... the seperations are due to......ignorance.....only > So: what if there is no reality behind all those parts. What if they > are all imaginations, conditionings, beliefs, constructs. And thus the > whole entity, as the sum of all those parts, is questionable. In this > case, what sense does it make to call one part slave and the other > master? Is such classification not rather maintaining the illusion? > yes.... if you look from absolute point of view..... there are no parts all is imagination only all is questionable... and also the fact, that some appearing parts " defend " the illusory self........is of no reality..... even if " they " appear to be " at the feet of ignorance " ..... it's only due to ignorant eyes.....in reality you are right Marc > ;-) > S. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the one who is a slave of the sense organs... > > > > is like the one who is slave to ignorance... > > > > > > > > both are ....One...and Same.....* > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > *lost in time and space.... > > > > > > > > dreaming about " others " .....to share " misery-peace- bliss " ..... > > > > > > > > at the feet of ignorance > > > > > > > > > > > > > is that an invitation? > > > > > > > > you want to be at the feet of ignorance?.... > > sharing some ignorance...? > > > > > > > > you do what you feel to do.... > > > > there is nobody...realy ....who care about.... > > > > > > Marc > > > perhaps I shall be Mary Magdalene and wash your feet with my hair, > or Veronica and wipe your face with my last veil. > > > 10000 faces of Eve, of the Goddess who loves you as Herself, and > 'you' are ever lost in the samsara of words... words....and words..... ideas and ideas.... names and forms.... faces.... concepts.... coming and going but we all are " here " and " now " always at the feet of nothing.....and everything within every moment Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: Stefan: >>So: what if there is no reality behind all those parts. What if they >>are all imaginations, conditionings, beliefs, constructs. And thus >>the whole entity, as the sum of all those parts, is questionable. In >>this case, what sense does it make to call one part slave and the >other master? Is such classification not rather maintaining the >>illusion? Marc: >yes.... >if you look from absolute point of view..... >there are no parts >all is imagination only >all is questionable... >and also the fact, that some appearing parts " defend " the illusory >self........is of no reality..... >even if " they " appear to be " at the feet of ignorance " ..... >it's only due to ignorant eyes.....in reality >you are right > >Marc Thank you Marc, I understand now better what you want to say. For me... you say that I am speaking from the standpoint of the absolute. But I do not know what the absolute is. Really, I am simply speaking from the standpoint of what I experience. It is happening as it happens. There is no way that I can direct this stream. It includes everything without exception. Others, dreams, emotions, sensations... It is the only reality that I have. Also division into parts is happening, classification, judgment. But those as well are coming and going. Some last longer, others pass by quickly. No need to carve it into stones. Now I am the slave of my hunger. Now I am the listener of a birds song. Air is inhaled. It is all memory. It is simple, ordinary and normal... it feels a little silly to write about it. Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the one who is a slave of the sense organs... > > > > > is like the one who is slave to ignorance... > > > > > > > > > > both are ....One...and Same.....* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *lost in time and space.... > > > > > > > > > > dreaming about " others " .....to share " misery-peace- > bliss " ..... > > > > > > > > > > at the feet of ignorance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is that an invitation? > > > > > > > > > > > > you want to be at the feet of ignorance?.... > > > sharing some ignorance...? > > > > > > > > > > > > you do what you feel to do.... > > > > > > there is nobody...realy ....who care about.... > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > perhaps I shall be Mary Magdalene and wash your feet with my hair, > > or Veronica and wipe your face with my last veil. > > > > > > 10000 faces of Eve, of the Goddess who loves you as Herself, and > > 'you' are ever lost in the samsara of words... > > > words....and words..... > > ideas and ideas.... > > names and forms.... > > faces.... > > concepts.... > > > coming and going > > > but we all are " here " > > and " now " > > always > > at the feet of nothing.....and everything > > within every moment > > > Marc Though I am hidden in the solitude of Your skin, though I am Your deepest well, abiding a peaceful river of Your every dream, I flow into endless oceans, undulating far-reaching memory, I offer my cupped hand, Can we share a cool drink? We are dusty travelers in a long night caravan, under the same bright stars We have shared the same breath As daybreak's song. Love, Anna 8/21/06 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 > >yes.... > >if you look from absolute point of view..... > >there are no parts > >all is imagination only > >all is questionable... > >and also the fact, that some appearing parts " defend " the illusory > >self........is of no reality..... > >even if " they " appear to be " at the feet of ignorance " ..... > >it's only due to ignorant eyes.....in reality > >you are right > > > >Marc > > Thank you Marc, I understand now better what you want to say. For > me... you say that I am speaking from the standpoint of the absolute. > But I do not know what the absolute is. Really, I am simply speaking > from the standpoint of what I experience. It is happening as it > happens. There is no way that I can direct this stream. It includes > everything without exception. Others, dreams, emotions, sensations... > It is the only reality that I have. Also division into parts is > happening, classification, judgment. But those as well are coming and > going. Some last longer, others pass by quickly. No need to carve it > into stones. Now I am the slave of my hunger. Now I am the listener of > a birds song. Air is inhaled. It is all memory. It is simple, ordinary > and normal... it feels a little silly to write about it. > > Stefan Hi Stefan, the " absolute " .... there are no words for It.... you describe your " experience " .... " everything happens...like it happens... the stream which can't be directed... ...including everything without exception... " yes....thats about living Oneness......about living It..... no words about... about this your mentionned " stream " i think that this " stream " can have a " break " ....sometimes " experiencing " that nothing happen....realy.... for some duration of time.... depending on the mind....which is working....or not... and also on awareness....and " experiences " ... when one " experience " such a " break " ..... (difficult to talk about...) it look like..... " everything hold on for some moments...and times " .... like....a " break " of the movie in the cinema.... and after this break....the " stream " continues... when such experiences happen.... it look like......a walk....in and out of.... the world.... It show another kind of " seeing and being " .... .....imagine an actor playing a role in a movie/theater...and suddenly " walk " out of the role/play....and having a break... realising that, in reality,....nobody realy is playing/acting with..... except during the playing.... .... few words... wish you to continue and enjoy the bird songs.... the air... means...wish a nice " break " ....and a stream...in harmony and peace however/whenever/wherever Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > Stefan: > >>So: what if there is no reality behind all those parts. What if they > >>are all imaginations, conditionings, beliefs, constructs. And thus > >>the whole entity, as the sum of all those parts, is questionable. In > >>this case, what sense does it make to call one part slave and the > >other master? Is such classification not rather maintaining the > >>illusion? > > Marc: > >yes.... > >if you look from absolute point of view..... > >there are no parts > >all is imagination only > >all is questionable... > >and also the fact, that some appearing parts " defend " the illusory > >self........is of no reality..... > >even if " they " appear to be " at the feet of ignorance " ..... > >it's only due to ignorant eyes.....in reality > >you are right > > > >Marc > > Thank you Marc, I understand now better what you want to say. For > me... you say that I am speaking from the standpoint of the absolute. > But I do not know what the absolute is. Really, I am simply speaking > from the standpoint of what I experience. It is happening as it > happens. There is no way that I can direct this stream. It includes > everything without exception. Others, dreams, emotions, sensations... > It is the only reality that I have. Also division into parts is > happening, classification, judgment. But those as well are coming and > going. Some last longer, others pass by quickly. No need to carve it > into stones. Now I am the slave of my hunger. Now I am the listener of > a birds song. Air is inhaled. It is all memory. It is simple, ordinary > and normal... it feels a little silly to write about it. > > Stefan > Wonderful Stefan, I wonder if all those readers which are craving for more or even for the 'highest'will appreciate your post Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Stefan: > > >>So: what if there is no reality behind all those parts. What if > they > > >>are all imaginations, conditionings, beliefs, constructs. And > thus > > >>the whole entity, as the sum of all those parts, is questionable. > In > > >>this case, what sense does it make to call one part slave and the > > >other master? Is such classification not rather maintaining the > > >>illusion? > > > > Marc: > > >yes.... > > >if you look from absolute point of view..... > > >there are no parts > > >all is imagination only > > >all is questionable... > > >and also the fact, that some appearing parts " defend " the illusory > > >self........is of no reality..... > > >even if " they " appear to be " at the feet of ignorance " ..... > > >it's only due to ignorant eyes.....in reality > > >you are right > > > > > >Marc > > > > Thank you Marc, I understand now better what you want to say. For > > me... you say that I am speaking from the standpoint of the > absolute. > > But I do not know what the absolute is. Really, I am simply speaking > > from the standpoint of what I experience. It is happening as it > > happens. There is no way that I can direct this stream. It includes > > everything without exception. Others, dreams, emotions, > sensations... > > It is the only reality that I have. Also division into parts is > > happening, classification, judgment. But those as well are coming > and > > going. Some last longer, others pass by quickly. No need to carve it > > into stones. Now I am the slave of my hunger. Now I am the listener > of > > a birds song. Air is inhaled. It is all memory. It is simple, > ordinary > > and normal... it feels a little silly to write about it. > > > > Stefan > > > > > Wonderful Stefan, > > I wonder if all those readers which are craving for more or even for > the 'highest'will appreciate your post > > Werner ...... " all those readers which are craving for more..... " .....are in your fantasie Werner..... wake up.... Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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