Guest guest Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 >>>>>>What is enlightenment? >>>>...the journey from fear to love! >>>>Am I enlightened? >>What motivates all your acts... fear or love? Every moment of the day, if you were to honestly ask yourself - " why am I doing, what I am doing? " - would the honest answer be because of LOVE or would it be... " fear " ? ... When you see a stranger coming, approaching you do you... 'anticipate in " fear " ' or do you wait in love? ... When someone opens his/her mouth, when someone starts talking to you, do you... 'anticipate in " fear " ' or do you wait in love? ... When you see thing [such as yourself] do you feel grateful for what it is... or, do you think what it " should " have been? ...or, do you " fear " what it " could " become? ... Everyday when you wake up, what do you feel... love for what is, love what more might come or " fear " for what might happen? When you sleep in the night, do you go into sleep loving what is, feeling grateful and filled by all that has happened and all that might happening... do you go to sleep " dreading " what might come? ... Everyday of your life, every moment of your life... is it full of fear, or is it full of love? ... How do you live your life... in fear or in love? @@@ Enlightenment is just like LOVE... when you have it; Your Whole Body Knows it! @@@ @@@ Enlightenment is just like LOVE... when you don't have it; Your Whole Body yearns for it! @@@ Body doesn't lie! --- Asking... Are you L.[i/O].V.I.N.G? or, are you waiting to L.[i/O].V.E? ...is same as asking are you " enlightened " ? and, you know the answer... All the Time! >>Is " x " a good enlightenment teacher? What does he really teach... fear or love? [what do you really " get " ... fear or love?] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 Nisargadatta , Adithya K <adithya_comming wrote: > > >>>>>>What is enlightenment? > > >>>>...the journey from fear to love! > > > > >>>>Am I enlightened? > > >>What motivates all your acts... fear > or love? > > > Every moment of the day, if you were > to honestly ask yourself - " why am I > doing, what I am doing? " - would the > honest answer be because of LOVE or > would it be... " fear " ? > > > ... > > > When you see a stranger coming, > approaching you do you... 'anticipate > in " fear " ' or do you wait in love? > > ... > > > When someone opens his/her mouth, when > someone starts talking to you, do > you... 'anticipate in " fear " ' or do you > wait in love? > > ... > > > When you see thing [such as yourself] > do you feel grateful for what it is... > or, do you think what it " should " have > been? > > ...or, do you " fear " what it > " could " become? > > > ... > > > Everyday when you wake up, what do you > feel... love for what is, love what > more might come or " fear " for what > might happen? > > When you sleep in the night, do you go > into sleep loving what is, feeling > grateful and filled by all that has > happened and all that might > happening... do you go to sleep > " dreading " what might come? > > > ... > > Everyday of your life, every moment of > your life... is it full of fear, or is > it full of love? > > > ... > > How do you live your life... in fear > or in love? > > > > @@@ Enlightenment is just like LOVE... > when you have it; Your Whole Body > Knows it! @@@ > > > @@@ Enlightenment is just like LOVE... > when you don't have it; Your Whole > Body yearns for it! @@@ > > > > Body doesn't lie! > > > --- > > Asking... > > Are you L.[i/O].V.I.N.G? > or, are you waiting to L.[i/O].V.E? > > ...is same as asking are you " enlightened " ? > > and, you know the answer... All the Time! > > > > > >>Is " x " a good enlightenment teacher? > > What does he really teach... fear or > love? > > [what do you really " get " ... fear or > love?] the love you give others is only equal to the love you give yourself those who live in fear fear themselves those who live in love fully fully love themselves how do I love myself? let me count the ways! those who live in fear simply fear to love themselves to be fully enlightened is to fully love oneself we have nothing to teach another but how to love our selves most fully one's self is always already one's other .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Adithya K <adithya_comming@> > wrote: > > > > >>>>>>What is enlightenment? > > > > >>>>...the journey from fear to love! [...] > > @@@ Enlightenment is just like LOVE... > > when you have it; Your Whole Body > > Knows it! @@@ > > > > > > @@@ Enlightenment is just like LOVE... > > when you don't have it; Your Whole > > Body yearns for it! @@@ > > > > > > > > Body doesn't lie! > > > > > > --- > > > > Asking... > > > > Are you L.[i/O].V.I.N.G? > > or, are you waiting to L.[i/O].V.E? > > > > ...is same as asking are you " enlightened " ? > > > > and, you know the answer... All the Time! > > [..] > > > the love you give others > > is only equal to the love > > you give yourself > > > > those who live in fear > > fear themselves > > > > those who live in love fully > > fully love themselves > > > > how do I love myself? > > > let me count the ways! > > > > those who live in fear > > > simply fear to love > > > themselves > > > > > to be fully enlightened > > > is to fully love oneself > > > > > we have nothing to teach another > > > but how to love our selves most fully > > > > one's > > > self is always > > > already > > > one's > > > > other > > > > > ... > I find that Very True, Sky! If you want to see the love of your life, look in the mirror. ~ Byron Katie " Love thy neighbor as yourself. " 'I always had. I hated me, I hated you.' There is no other way! ~ Byron Katie < http://www.thework.com/DailyMsgArchive.asp > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 GuruRatings , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: What is Enlightenment? This question has been asked by many, many times and has been answered by many, many times. I myself have asked this question many times and has " guessed " an answer many times. Yet, no answer, so far has really satisfied me and thus the question has remained. Yes, I have read [from no other than Ramana] that there is no realization event and that peace is realization. And, I have utmost trust in and respect for both these statements. I have also read that the realization has no relationship with the body and that it is only a 'mental', recognition... Yet, the EVENT that I recognized as enlightenment had a lot to do with the " body " ... With that event... my " body " disappeared! Saying it the other way, with that event... my body disappeared from my mind. Yet, another way, the image of the body disappeared from the mind an what once felt like solid, dense, " real " body " ... now didn't feel at all, it felt like not-existing, not being threes, zero, nada and with that, sense of locality, boundary, [physical] separation, [physical] existence too disappeared! .... as in Deep Dreamless Sleep! [is there a " body " in deep dreamless sleep?] And, that " change " was immensely powerful, starting and profound and it has stayed till this day... and, that was the only Change which was directly and imminently noticeable to me! Thinking wise, I still could think same thing [which, now, with more " education " are changing] as before. Acting wise, I could still do the same thing as before [which, now, with more " education " are changing]. Yet, this 'bodilessness', 'formlessness' was something totally new, radical, sudden, uncaused [by me] and unexplained. I have read about it and scientists say that " sense of space " is function of one part of the brain. Then, for some reason, unknown to me, that part suddenly became 'quiet' in my brain without causing much real life problems. I have also read that many drugs cause a very similar effect. Yet, in my case, I had taken none and how it happened, remains a mystery to me, till date! What made it even more interesting and puzzling that at the same time that the [feeling of] bodilessness happened, I also started haering continuous humming sound, which I had never heard/noticed before. And, both these [physical ???] manifestations have remained with me till date! --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > GuruRatings , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > What is Enlightenment? > > > This question has been asked by many, > many times and has been answered by > many, many times. > > > I myself have asked this question many > times and has " guessed " an answer many > times. > > > Yet, no answer, so far has really > satisfied me and thus the question has > remained. > > > > Yes, I have read [from no other than > Ramana] that there is no realization > event and that peace is realization. > And, I have utmost trust in and respect > for both these statements. I have also > read that the realization has no > relationship with the body and that it > is only a 'mental', recognition... Namaste, Some say enlightenment is knowing the truth but realisation is being the truth..........Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 [...] > > Yet, the EVENT that I " suspected " to be > enlightenment had a lot to do with the > " body " ... > > > With that event... my " body " > disappeared! > > > > Saying it the other way, with that > event... my body disappeared from my > mind. Yet, another way, the image of > the body disappeared from the mind an > what once felt like solid, dense, > " real " body " ... now didn't feel at all, > it felt like not-existing, not being > threre, zero, nada and with that, sense > of locality, boundary, [physical] > separation, [physical] existence too > disappeared! > > ... as in Deep Dreamless Sleep! > [...] > > I have read about it and scientists > say that " sense of space " is function > of one part of the brain. Then, for > some reason, unknown to me, that part > suddenly became 'quiet' in my brain > without causing much real life problems. > From : <http://www.coloringtherapy.com/a_biology_religious_experience.htm> .... Their lab work involved brain scans of experienced Tibetan Buddhist meditators and Franciscan nuns seasoned in prayer.... Finished images (see photos) showed increased activity in the frontal lobes, the attention area, and decreased activity in the posterior superior parietal lobe. Biologists know that this latter area of the brain primarily orients us in space, keeping track of which way is up or down, forward or behind, and helping us judge distances and angles. Structures in this part of the brain combine to form the orientation association area (OAA), which must constantly generate a clear, consistent awareness of the physical limits of the self in order for us to function without looking like Buster Keaton, always stumbling and collapsing. It's the mind's way of telling us the difference between us and everything else, and it's a function that must work all the time flawlessly so we can get around. People who suffer injuries in this area have difficulty maneuvering in space; they are unable to even get into bed or lie down once there. The increased activity in the attention area was expected, since meditation tends to focus the brain. Scientists know however that the OAA never rests, according to Newberg, so what would cause the drop in activity in an essential function area of the brain? " What if the area was working as hard as ever, but somehow the act of meditating had blocked its flow of sensory input? We were fascinated by this possibility, " said Newberg. Does meditation " blind " the OAA deliberately? And if the OAA has no information upon which to work, what would the brain make of it? Newberg and d'Aquili write: " Would the orientation area interpret its failure to find the borderline between the self and the outside world to mean that such a distinction doesn't exist? In that case the brain would have no choice but to perceive that the self is endless and intimately interwoven with everyone and everything the mind senses. And this perception would feel utterly and unquestionably real. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > GuruRatings , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > What is Enlightenment? > > > > > > This question has been asked by many, > > many times and has been answered by > > many, many times. > > > > > > I myself have asked this question many > > times and has " guessed " an answer many > > times. > > > > > > Yet, no answer, so far has really > > satisfied me and thus the question has > > remained. > > > > > > > > Yes, I have read [from no other than > > Ramana] that there is no realization > > event and that peace is realization. > > And, I have utmost trust in and respect > > for both these statements. I have also > > read that the realization has no > > relationship with the body and that it > > is only a 'mental', recognition... > > Namaste, > > Some say enlightenment is knowing the truth but realisation is being > the truth..........Tony. dreams! just 'who' is 'being' truth? what IS truth? nice words above but they have no meaning whatsoever. Nothing there IS that is NOT TRUTH. how could it be otherwise? realize THAT pilgrim. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: >Yet, the EVENT that I recognized as >enlightenment had a lot to do with the > " body " ... > >With that event... my " body " >disappeared! Arvind! I know what you are talking about. But having a body, having no body... what is the point? The point is: to WHOM this body has disappeared! To WHOM it has belonged! Why do you still call it " my " body? WHOSE body??? It is obvious that the body is an object to " you " . Its fingers have typed your message. It is a phenomenon like everything else. And so it comes and it goes. But where are you? From where did you see your body? From where did you watch it disappear? Are you in your brain? No, your said your body has disappeared. Are you in your heart? No, your said your body has disappeared. You have watched: a body arising - a body disappearing. Who has watched this? Maybe a guy called Arvind? And who is Arvind? Is " Arvind " not merely the tag of this very body? Where will this tag be when this body is destroyed in the burning ghats?? Do you know the answer to all those questions? Maybe there are no answers... but it is good to ask them. It can be immensely helpful. Namaste Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > >Yet, the EVENT that I recognized as > >enlightenment had a lot to do with the > > " body " ... > > > >With that event... my " body " > >disappeared! > > > Arvind! > > I know what you are talking about. > But having a body, having no body... > what is the point? > > The point is: > to WHOM this body has disappeared! > To WHOM it has belonged! > Why do you still call it " my " body? > WHOSE body??? > > It is obvious that the body > is an object to " you " . > Its fingers have typed your message. > It is a phenomenon like everything else. > And so it comes and it goes. > > But where are you? > From where did you see your body? > From where did you watch it disappear? > > Are you in your brain? > No, your said your body has disappeared. > Are you in your heart? > No, your said your body has disappeared. > > You have watched: > a body arising - a body disappearing. > > Who has watched this? > Maybe a guy called Arvind? > And who is Arvind? > Is " Arvind " not merely the tag of this very body? > Where will this tag be when this body > is destroyed in the burning ghats?? > > Do you know the answer to all those questions? > Maybe there are no answers... > but it is good to ask them. > It can be immensely helpful. > > Namaste > Stefan oh christ.. here we go! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > GuruRatings , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > What is Enlightenment? > > > This question has been asked by many, > many times and has been answered by > many, many times. > > > I myself have asked this question many > times and has " guessed " an answer many > times. > > > Yet, no answer, so far has really > satisfied me and thus the question has > remained. > > > > Yes, I have read [from no other than > Ramana] that there is no realization > event and that peace is realization. > And, I have utmost trust in and respect > for both these statements. I have also > read that the realization has no > relationship with the body and that it > is only a 'mental', recognition... > > > > Yet, the EVENT that I recognized as > enlightenment had a lot to do with the > " body " ... > > > With that event... my " body " > disappeared! > > > > Saying it the other way, with that > event... my body disappeared from my > mind. Yet, another way, the image of > the body disappeared from the mind an > what once felt like solid, dense, > " real " body " ... now didn't feel at all, > it felt like not-existing, not being > threes, zero, nada and with that, sense > of locality, boundary, [physical] > separation, [physical] existence too > disappeared! > > ... as in Deep Dreamless Sleep! > > [is there a " body " in deep dreamless > sleep?] > > > > And, that " change " was immensely > powerful, starting and profound and it > has stayed till this day... and, that > was the only Change which was directly > and imminently noticeable to me! > Thinking wise, I still could think same > thing [which, now, with more > " education " are changing] as before. > Acting wise, I could still do the same > thing as before [which, now, with more > " education " are changing]. Yet, this > 'bodilessness', 'formlessness' was > something totally new, radical, sudden, > uncaused [by me] and unexplained. > > > > I have read about it and scientists > say that " sense of space " is function > of one part of the brain. Then, for > some reason, unknown to me, that part > suddenly became 'quiet' in my brain > without causing much real life problems. > > > > I have also read that many drugs cause > a very similar effect. Yet, in my case, > I had taken none and how it happened, > remains a mystery to me, till date! > What made it even more interesting and > puzzling that at the same time that the > [feeling of] bodilessness happened, I > also started haering continuous humming > sound, which I had never heard/noticed > before. And, both these [physical ???] > manifestations have remained with me > till date! > > --- End forwarded message --- > " I have also read that many drugs cause a very similar effect. Yet, in my case, I had taken none and how it happened, remains a mystery to me, till date! " -Your mind is your drug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2007 Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 NonDualPhil , " jeusisbuen " <zorrobueno wrote: > > NonDualPhil , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > I have also read that many drugs cause > > a very similar effect. Yet, in my case, > > I had taken none and how it happened, > > remains a mystery to me, till date! > > What made it even more interesting and > > puzzling that at the same time that the > > [feeling of] bodilessness happened, I > > also started haering continuous humming > > sound, which I had never heard/noticed > > before. And, both these [physical ???] > > manifestations have remained with me > > till date! > > > There is a drug called angle dust whose > effects are very similar to > what you are describing--but this effect > wears off and is very > dangerously effected to begin with. > I don't know if your state is a > sign of enlightenment or not but enjoy > it while you may--you know the > old saying: Easy come easy go. Most > spiritually inclined people > would consider you one of the fortunate few. Z I have found the description of the effect of Ketamine somewhat similar. The last part of the last line from its Description on Wikipedia, sounds especially Amazing: " a user may not be aware that he or she has a body at all. " How and why it happened to me, I still have no clue. In the beginning, I used to be quite frightened, thinking that maybe, I was about to die, but, not anymore. I used to think that maybe, it happened because I read/heard Tolle or because RP Singh gave me Shaktipat, but, does Tolle feel this way too? I have no idea and, RP Singh told me that he not at all feels that way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketamine Ketamine produces a dissociative state, characterised by a sense of detachment from one's physical body and the external world. At sufficiently high doses (e.g. 150 mg intramuscular), users may experience what is coined the " K-hole " , a state of dissociation whose effects are thought to mimic the phenomenology of schizophrenia. This may include distortions in bodily awareness, such as the feeling that one's body is being tugged, or is gliding on silk, flying, or has grown very large or distended. Users often report feeling more skeletal or becoming more aware of their bones - the shape of their hands is also often of interest. Users may experience worlds or dimensions that are ineffable, all the while being completely unaware of their individual identities or the external world. Users may feel as though their perceptions are located so deep inside the mind that the real world seems distant (hence the use of a " hole " to describe the experience). Some users may not remember this part of the experience after regaining consciousness, in the same way that a person may forget a dream. Owing to the role of the NMDA receptor in long-term potentiation, this may be due to disturbances in memory formation. The " re-integration " process is slow, and the user gradually becomes aware of surroundings. At first, users may not remember their own names, or even know that they are human, or what that means. Movement is extremely difficult, and a user may not be aware that he or she has a body at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2007 Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 Hi bodiless Arvind, again: who became bodiless? How does it feel? Where is it felt? I mean, since you have no body to feel. To whom has it " happened " , as you say? Can you tell where the entity is located, that has " lost " its body? Those are not polemic questions or something. Should those not be the obvious questions? I know how it is to feel detached from the body. But my body is still there when I need it. And when someone hits my head it hurts. I also find all this puzzling. But how about you? Your state must be horrible. Did you say it is permanent? Actually... how do you write those emails? Do you eat, drink etc.? Just trying to understand an old fellow traveler... Stefan Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > NonDualPhil , " jeusisbuen " <zorrobueno@> > wrote: > > > > NonDualPhil , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have also read that many drugs cause > > > a very similar effect. Yet, in my case, > > > I had taken none and how it happened, > > > remains a mystery to me, till date! > > > What made it even more interesting and > > > puzzling that at the same time that the > > > [feeling of] bodilessness happened, I > > > also started haering continuous humming > > > sound, which I had never heard/noticed > > > before. And, both these [physical ???] > > > manifestations have remained with me > > > till date! > > > > > There is a drug called angle dust whose > > effects are very similar to > > what you are describing--but this effect > > wears off and is very > > dangerously effected to begin with. > > I don't know if your state is a > > sign of enlightenment or not but enjoy > > it while you may--you know the > > old saying: Easy come easy go. Most > > spiritually inclined people > > would consider you one of the fortunate few. Z > > I have found the description of the > effect of Ketamine somewhat similar. > The last part of the last line from its > Description on Wikipedia, sounds > especially Amazing: > > " a user may not > be aware that he or she has a body at > all. " > > > How and why it happened to me, > I still have no clue. In the beginning, > I used to be quite frightened, thinking > that maybe, I was about to die, but, > not anymore. > > I used to think that maybe, > it happened because I read/heard Tolle > or because RP Singh gave me Shaktipat, > but, does Tolle feel this way too? I have no > idea and, RP Singh told me that he not > at all feels that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2007 Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 Dear Stefan: I had decided to assume that you were being sincere, honest and open in asking these questions and therefore, I was going to attempt to answer them sincerely. But, then, I read the first line of your mail, " Hi bodiless Arvind " and I concluded that probably you were not being sincere, but, just an wise-ass. Is that correct? ac Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Hi bodiless Arvind, > > again: who became bodiless? > How does it feel? Where is it felt? > I mean, since you have no body to feel. > To whom has it " happened " , as you say? > Can you tell where the entity is located, > that has " lost " its body? > > Those are not polemic questions or something. > Should those not be the obvious questions? > I know how it is to feel detached from the body. > But my body is still there when I need it. > And when someone hits my head it hurts. > I also find all this puzzling. > > But how about you? > Your state must be horrible. > Did you say it is permanent? > Actually... how do you write those emails? > Do you eat, drink etc.? > > Just trying to understand > an old fellow traveler... > > Stefan > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2007 Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Dear Stefan: > > I had decided to assume that you were being > sincere, honest and open in asking these > questions and therefore, I was going to > attempt to answer them sincerely. > > But, then, I read the first line of your > mail, " Hi bodiless Arvind " and I concluded > that probably you were not being sincere, > but, just an wise-ass. > > Is that correct? > > ac actually ac, stevarino is more a dumb-ass kind of guy. :-) ..b b.b. **********************absolutely NOTHING new below******************** > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > wrote: > > > > Hi bodiless Arvind, > > > > again: who became bodiless? > > How does it feel? Where is it felt? > > I mean, since you have no body to feel. > > To whom has it " happened " , as you say? > > Can you tell where the entity is located, > > that has " lost " its body? > > > > Those are not polemic questions or something. > > Should those not be the obvious questions? > > I know how it is to feel detached from the body. > > But my body is still there when I need it. > > And when someone hits my head it hurts. > > I also find all this puzzling. > > > > But how about you? > > Your state must be horrible. > > Did you say it is permanent? > > Actually... how do you write those emails? > > Do you eat, drink etc.? > > > > Just trying to understand > > an old fellow traveler... > > > > Stefan > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Dear Arvind, I was 100 percent sincere, but this does not mean that I am serious like a priest. Your ego seems to be very sensitive, but I think a little humor here and there should be allowed. We both had a master who was sparkling from humor, do you remember? He so often has reminded us how funny we look, when we take ourselves too serious. Of course it is up to you if you want to answer my questions. I have put those questions for you, because you said that you are very much puzzled and I wanted to give a helping hand by providing some focus. Now I wonder, why you have wrote your email in the first place? Do you want a conversation between friends or do you want to hold a lecture about your state? If you want to listen to me, then you will find, that I have something to cay. But it is up to you. When you prefer to reject anything that looks like a critique or disagreement, then you should not listen to me. If you feel so much afraid that I could be publicly disrespectful (which I did not attend, but which can sometimes be helpful too, in small doses, like a friendly slap on the shoulder)... then please write me in private, whatever you want. Greetings Stefan Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > >Dear Stefan: > >I had decided to assume that you were being >sincere, honest and open in asking these >questions and therefore, I was going to >attempt to answer them sincerely. > >But, then, I read the first line of your >mail, " Hi bodiless Arvind " and I concluded >that probably you were not being sincere, >but, just an wise-ass. > >Is that correct? > >ac > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > wrote: > > > > Hi bodiless Arvind, > > > > again: who became bodiless? > > How does it feel? Where is it felt? > > I mean, since you have no body to feel. > > To whom has it " happened " , as you say? > > Can you tell where the entity is located, > > that has " lost " its body? > > > > Those are not polemic questions or something. > > Should those not be the obvious questions? > > I know how it is to feel detached from the body. > > But my body is still there when I need it. > > And when someone hits my head it hurts. > > I also find all this puzzling. > > > > But how about you? > > Your state must be horrible. > > Did you say it is permanent? > > Actually... how do you write those emails? > > Do you eat, drink etc.? > > > > Just trying to understand > > an old fellow traveler... > > > > Stefan > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Dear Stefan: > > I had decided to assume that you were being > sincere, honest and open in asking these > questions and therefore, I was going to > attempt to answer them sincerely. > > But, then, I read the first line of your > mail, " Hi bodiless Arvind " and I concluded > that probably you were not being sincere, > but, just an wise-ass. > > Is that correct? > > ac > The classic example of a monk who spend years and years meditating on top of a hill, thinking he has reached high levels of understanding. At return in the market place somebody bumped accidently into the monk, the encounter was enough to throw the monk in a fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 > > > > > The classic example of a monk who spend years and years meditating > on top of a hill, thinking he has reached high levels of > understanding. > At return in the market place somebody bumped accidently into the > monk, the encounter was enough to throw the monk in a fit. > Well, could be the monk had absolutely nothing invested in the situation. He was just shooting blanks. Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 [...] > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi bodiless Arvind, > > > > > > again: who became bodiless? I have no idea, a part of brain must have felt 'silent', perhaps. > > > How does it feel? It feels very different - light, painless and kind of very weired. Imagine not feeling like a having a body and then see yourself walking, talking, running, typing - kind of like being in a dream - yet, being fully awake - or, kind of like having a very different type of body or, maybe, as if the body was madeup of gas or SPACE still you could see it in the mirror. Or, like, sometimes, after we had sex, my wife exclaimed - OMG, I feel so light, I feel as if my body has just dissapeared. I think it might be that kind of feeling. Remember that one has to feel the body when it aches, hurts - so, no feeling body also means that it is completely free of any aching and pain sensation - which of course, feels extremely relaxed. > > > Where is it felt? Maybe, in heart, maybe, in brain, I don't really know. > > > I mean, since you have no body to feel. Yes, there is an apparent contradiction in my description. I don't know how to avoid it. > > > To whom has it " happened " , as you say? Yes, I too have read books by Ramana and Niz, if that is what you mean. > > > Can you tell where the entity is located, > > > that has " lost " its body? I don't know. Maybe, it is brain. Who feels orgasm? Who feels 'very light' after orgasm? Who feels like 'not having a body' after orgasm? Do you know? > > > > > > Those are not polemic questions or something. > > > Should those not be the obvious questions? Sure, why not. > > > I know how it is to feel detached from the body. > > > But my body is still there when I need it. Sure. > > > And when someone hits my head it hurts. Sure. > > > I also find all this puzzling. Ok. > > > > > > But how about you? Yes, I found it puzzling too. > > > Your state must be horrible. It felt weired but, certainly not horrible. It is not something which I am trying to " lose " . > > > Did you say it is permanent? Yes, almost. > > > Actually... how do you write those emails? Pretty much the way did before. I " will " and I write " , yet, there is a part in the brain, which was before almsot always 'active', but, now is almost always 'silent'. It is like an air-conditioner which makes 'no noise' and thus you don't know that it is running,yet, it cools. Or, like a car whose makes 'no noise', and, you feel as if it not " running " , but, then, you are amazed to see the car moving. > > > Do you eat, drink etc.? Sure. Are you really asking? Is that a sincere question? Do you really doubt whethere I eat or not. > > > > > > Just trying to understand > > > an old fellow traveler... > > > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Hi Arvind, thank you for your answer. I understand you better now and can relate to your description. It was a bit misleading that you have said, that you are " bodiless " . I understand now, that your experience is hard to describe, and that you chose a rather drastic expression. Well, therefor I sincerely was asking if you eat and drink, because you sincerely have said, that you have no body. I am glad to hear that your body is still there and that it still does its job. Then I have also asked you: " to whom did it happen " . You did not answer my question, instead you wrote: >Yes, I too have read books by Ramana and Niz, >if that is what you mean. Sorry, I find this answer weird and out of context. It sounds as if you are saying, that I am parroting books from the masters. This is not the case. I think I have asked the most obvious question. You say, it has happened that you feel " bodiless " . Most people mean the body when they say " I " , or at least they include the body. Most people assume that the person will disappear when the body dies. So, since your body is gone (in a way), it is most obvious to ask, to whom this has happened (since " Arvind " depends on the body). From the style of your answer I have the suspicion, that you are trying hard to avoid this question. The brain, the heart, the mind... memory, thoughts, emotions... they are all part of the body, would you not agree? So, where do you look and from where do you look? I find this is not only a very important, but also a very exciting question. If that what you describe is authentic, then there must be also an authentic answer. Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Hi Arvind, > > thank you for your answer. I understand you better now and can relate > to your description. It was a bit misleading that you have said, that > you are " bodiless " . I understand now, that your experience is hard to > describe, and that you chose a rather drastic expression. Namaste, OBEs and allied states are not states of non duality, but just states of duality with a different view or perspective that is all. If there is an 'I' it is not realisation...Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Hi Arvind, > > thank you for your answer. I understand you better now and can relate > to your description. It was a bit misleading that you have said, that > you are " bodiless " . I understand now, that your experience is hard to > describe, and that you chose a rather drastic expression. > > Well, therefor I sincerely was asking if you eat and drink, because > you sincerely have said, that you have no body. I am glad to hear that > your body is still there and that it still does its job. > > Then I have also asked you: " to whom did it happen " . > You did not answer my question, I had tried answering it by saying following in the last mail: > > > Can you tell where the entity is located, > > > that has " lost " its body? I don't know. Maybe, it is brain. Who feels orgasm? Who feels 'very light' after orgasm? Who feels like 'not having a body' after orgasm? Do you know? Don't you think that was an answer? > instead you wrote: > > >Yes, I too have read books by Ramana and Niz, > >if that is what you mean. That was just a " guess " as I had indicated by using " if " . I was wondering if your question was of 'nondual' type as in Ramana's 'Who am I?', 'Who is thinker?', 'Who gets born?'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 [...] > You say, it has happened that you > feel " bodiless " . > Most people mean the body > when they say " I " , or at least they include > the body. Most people assume that the person > will disappear when the body dies. So, since > your body is gone (in a way), it is most > obvious to ask, to whom this > has happened (since " Arvind " depends > on the body). Do you know who is that " I " that feels? If you know, you also know to " whom " , the 'feeling of body' can dissapear. I don't really who is THAT which feels. If I was to say/guess that it is the brain which feels body, then, I have to say that it is the brain which doesn't feel the body now. When you close your eyes, you don't see the building in front of you. But, it doesn't mean that the building is no longer there. Similarilly, when you lose your eye sight, you don't see the building in front of you. When you sleep, you don't see the building in front of you. When you are in coma, you don't see the building in front of you. Or, if your brain was to not receive signals from your retina, you don't see the building in front of you. Or, if your brain was to no process the signals from your eyes, you don't see the building in front of you. Something similar might have happened in this case. I don't know why and I don't how. When I sleep, I don't " hear " many noises that happen on the road. How does that happen? My ears remain intact, my brain, my body everything remains intact, yet, I don't hear many noises that when awake, I would hear quite loudly. This might happen, because, some part of my brain might be 'sleeping', maybe, similarilly some part of my brain now 'sleeps' most times. Amazingly, but, certainly not rarely, my son can cry or call me during my sleep and I still hear him very clearly - yet, many other noises dissapear, as if they don't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > [...] > > > You say, it has happened that you > > feel " bodiless " . > > > > Most people mean the body > > when they say " I " , or at least they include > > the body. Most people assume that the person > > will disappear when the body dies. So, since > > your body is gone (in a way), it is most > > obvious to ask, to whom this > > has happened (since " Arvind " depends > > on the body). BTW... below is what I wrote first in this thread: Yet, the EVENT that I recognized as enlightenment had a lot to do with the " body " ... With that event... my " body " disappeared! Saying it the other way, with that event... my body disappeared from my mind. Yet, another way, the image of the body disappeared from the mind an what once felt like solid, dense, " real " body " ... now didn't feel at all, it felt like not-existing, not being threes, zero, nada and with that, sense of locality, boundary, [physical] separation, [physical] existence too disappeared! .... as in Deep Dreamless Sleep! [is there a " body " in deep dreamless sleep?] > > Do you know who is that " I " that feels? > > If you know, you also know to " whom " , > the 'feeling of body' can dissapear. > > I don't really who is THAT which feels. > > If I was to say/guess that it is the brain > which feels body, then, I have to say that > it is the brain which doesn't feel the > body now. > > When you close your eyes, you don't see the > building in front of you. But, it doesn't > mean that the building is no longer there. > > Similarilly, when you lose your eye sight, > you don't see the building in front of you. > > When you sleep, > you don't see the building in front of you. > > When you are in coma, > you don't see the building in front of you. > > Or, if your brain was to not receive signals > from your retina, you don't see the building > in front of you. > > Or, if your brain was to no process the signals > from your eyes, you don't see the building in > front of you. > > > Something similar might have happened in this > case. I don't know why and I don't how. > > > When I sleep, I don't " hear " many noises that > happen on the road. How does that happen? My > ears remain intact, my brain, my body everything > remains intact, yet, I don't hear many noises that > when awake, I would hear quite loudly. This > might happen, because, some part of my brain > might be 'sleeping', maybe, similarilly some > part of my brain now 'sleeps' most times. > > Amazingly, but, certainly not rarely, my son > can cry or call me during my sleep and I still > hear him very clearly - yet, many other noises > dissapear, as if they don't exist. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Sorry Arvind, all your answers are related to the body (brain, heart, the mind, the senses, thoughts etc...). In this case it is your body which feels bodiless. Moreover nobody can " feel " his brain. My question was practical, not theoretical. Stefan Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > [...] > > > You say, it has happened that you > > feel " bodiless " . > > > > Most people mean the body > > when they say " I " , or at least they include > > the body. Most people assume that the person > > will disappear when the body dies. So, since > > your body is gone (in a way), it is most > > obvious to ask, to whom this > > has happened (since " Arvind " depends > > on the body). > > Do you know who is that " I " that feels? > > If you know, you also know to " whom " , > the 'feeling of body' can dissapear. > > I don't really who is THAT which feels. > > If I was to say/guess that it is the brain > which feels body, then, I have to say that > it is the brain which doesn't feel the > body now. > > When you close your eyes, you don't see the > building in front of you. But, it doesn't > mean that the building is no longer there. > > Similarilly, when you lose your eye sight, > you don't see the building in front of you. > > When you sleep, > you don't see the building in front of you. > > When you are in coma, > you don't see the building in front of you. > > Or, if your brain was to not receive signals > from your retina, you don't see the building > in front of you. > > Or, if your brain was to no process the signals > from your eyes, you don't see the building in > front of you. > > > Something similar might have happened in this > case. I don't know why and I don't how. > > > When I sleep, I don't " hear " many noises that > happen on the road. How does that happen? My > ears remain intact, my brain, my body everything > remains intact, yet, I don't hear many noises that > when awake, I would hear quite loudly. This > might happen, because, some part of my brain > might be 'sleeping', maybe, similarilly some > part of my brain now 'sleeps' most times. > > Amazingly, but, certainly not rarely, my son > can cry or call me during my sleep and I still > hear him very clearly - yet, many other noises > dissapear, as if they don't exist. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > > You say, it has happened that you > > > feel " bodiless " . > > > > > > > Most people mean the body > > > when they say " I " , or at least they include > > > the body. Most people assume that the person > > > will disappear when the body dies. So, since > > > your body is gone (in a way), it is most > > > obvious to ask, to whom this > > > has happened (since " Arvind " depends > > > on the body). > > > BTW... below is what I wrote first in > this thread: > > > Yet, the EVENT that I recognized as > enlightenment had a lot to do with the > " body " ... Namaste. AC I can't make up my mind whether you are an attention seeking pretentious fraud or that you are making simple basic mistakes through lack of sadhana. Who am I? is not a mantra, being out of the body isn'lt any step to enlightenment. Who am I is a feeling and that is about as close as it can be described..........Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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