Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 They say, everybody wants to be happy; but, what if my happiness was dependent on seeing you suffer? Some scientists say that is true. many humans do derive " real " [they measure it based on hormone rush] pleasure on seeing others suffer. Would you blame someone for trying to make you miserable if knew that his/her pleasure and sense of well being is really dependent on seeing you sad or that his/her success was dependent of seeing you fail? If you would, whom do you think should be blamed for it the person who is just an [unconscious] victim of such 'pattern' or that ho created such a pattern? Who created that pattern РGod, nature, evolution, What Is? * * * Many days our fights would start soon after my wife woke up. She would keep making [false] allegation, she would keep making remarks that can generally hurt me, she will even proceed to curse my parents and siblings, she will keep doing kind of things that have been generally hurtful to me that I thought she had no reasons to do. I would generally keep quiet, sometimes I would ask her why she is doing it, and sometimes I would try to offer my side of explanation, clarification. But, none of it would matter, she would keep doing it and she would keep increasing its intensity. Sometimes, I would simply walk out and other times I would burst in anger. To my surprise, I noticed that most times when I got angry my wife's mood would dramatically change! She would become very calm, her smile would return back and she would start looking relaxed and peaceful and a charming, cheery wife that she many times is. It appeared as if at the subconscious level all her prior activities were simply to make me angry/sad/depressed/miserable! It happened many, many times and I found it quite amazing! Many times I even talked about it to her. You might have seen similar patters in many others too. I surely have! Why you think the news of disasters is so popular??? ---- 1. I saw a show on the ABC where thy cited a study by a major institute concluding that most humans get a very pleasurable and addictive hormone rush on seeing other suffer! They said that was one of the main reason why the stories of celebrity 'breakups', celebrity 'infidelities', celebrity 'fights', celebrity 'trouble' were so popular universally! I couldn't find that info on the Internet. But, here is something on S & M that looks interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadism_and _masochism Pain, violence, sex and love all are associated with the release of a variety of hormones and chemicals within the human body. Furthermore, humans have been shown to exhibit sympathetic responses in their bodies while watching, hearing, or imagining such experiences. Levels of sex hormone testosterone can be temporarily affected by one's role S & M interactions. Dominant participants often get raised testosterone levels; whereas submissive participants often get depressed testosterone levels. Endorphins are released by pain experiences and can be perceived as pleasurable and possibly psychologically addictive. It is due to this same release of endorphins that people can become addicted to self harm. In this way, the acts of self harm and engaging in masochistic behavior can be similar in function though most would agree, not in causality. Brain chemicals such as serotonin and melatonin can be affected by emotional or stressful experiences. Epinephrine and norepinephrine are released during stressful or painful experiences, and can cause a pleasurable 'rush'. The effects of S & M on body chemistry probably reinforce the behavior and therefore create psychological states that seek to further such behavior. 2. Tolle on pain-body < http://laingsociety.org/giardino/viewtop ic.php?p=7696 & sid=d7253eecd8fbd1e323f0f3 2b62b4526e > Now, every emotional pain that you experience leaves behind a residue of pain that lives on in you. It merges with the pain from the past, which was already there, and becomes lodged in your mind and body. This, of course, includes the pain you suffered as a child, caused by the unconsciousness of the world into which you were born. This accumulated pain is a negative energy field that occupies your body and mind. If you look on it as an invisible entity in its own right, you are getting quite close to the truth. It’s the emotional pain-body. It has two modes of being: dormant and active. A pain-body may be dormant 90 percent of the time; in a deeply unhappy person, though, it may be active up to 100 percent of the time. Some people live almost entirely through their pain- body, while others may experience it only in certain situations, such as intimate relationships, or situations linked with past loss or abandonment, physical or emotional hurt, and so on. Anything can trigger it, particularly if it resonates with a pain pattern from your past. When it is ready to awaken from its dormant stage, even a thought or an innocent remark madecby someone close to you can activate it. Some pain-bodies are obnoxious but relatively harmless, for example like a child who won't stop whining. Others are vicious and destructive monsters, true demons. Some are physically violent; many more are emotionally violent. Some will attack people around you or close to you, while others may attack you, their host. Thoughts and feelings you have about your life then become deeply negative and self- destructive. Illnesses and accidents are often created in this way. Some pain-bodies drive their hosts to suicide. When you thought you knew a person and then you are suddenly confronted with this alien, nasty creature for the first time, you are in for quite a shock. However, it's more important to observe it in yourself than in someone else. Watch out for any sign of unhappiness in yourself, in whatever form - it may be the awakening pain- body. This can take the form of irritation, impatience, a somber mood, a desire to hurt, anger, rage, depression, a need to have some drama in your relationship, and so on. Catch it the moment it awakens from its dormant state. The pain-body wants to survive, just like every other entity in existence, and it can only survive if it gets you to unconsciously identify with it. It can then rise up, take you over, " become you, " and live through you. It needs to get its " food " through you. It will feed on any experience that resonates with its own kind of energy, anything that creates further pain in whatever form: anger, destructiveness, hatred, grief, emotional drama, violence, and even illness. So the pain- body, when it has taken you over, will create a situation in your life that reflects back its own energy frequency for it to feed on. Pain can only feed on pain. Pain cannot feed on joy. It finds it quite indigestible. Once the pain-body has taken you over, you want more pain. You become a victim or a perpetrator. You want to inflict pain, or you want to suffer pain, or both. There isn't really much difference between the two. You are not conscious of this, of course, and will vehemently claim that you do not want pain. But look closely and you will find that your thinking and behavior are designed to keep the pain going, for yourself and others. If you were truly conscious of it, the pattern would dissolve, for to want more pain is insanity, and nobody is consciously insane. The pain-body, which is the dark shadow cast by the ego, is actually afraid of the light of your consciousness. It is afraid of being found out. Its survival depends on your unconscious identification with it, as well as on your unconscious fear of facing the pain that lives in you. But if you don't face it, if you don't bring the light of your consciousness into the pain, you will be forced to relive it again and again. The pain- body may seem to you like a dangerous monster that you cannot bear to look at, but I assure you that it is an insubstantial phantom that cannot prevail against the power of your presence. ~from The Power of Now, A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment by Eckhart Tolle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau wrote: > > > > --- adithya_comming <adithya_comming wrote: > > To > > my surprise, I noticed that most times > > when I got angry my wife's mood would > > dramatically change! She would become > > very calm, her smile would return back > > and she would start looking relaxed and > > peaceful and a charming, cheery wife > > that she many times is. It appeared as > > if at the subconscious level all her > > prior activities were simply to make me > > angry/sad/depressed/miserable! > > > Or, *maybe* quite simply to get your attention. > > When people feel ignored (which does not mean they > really are, just that they feel so) or, if they have > learned in their family that the only way they can get > attention is by behaving this way. Well, it's called > 'negative attention'. For some people any attention > is better than none. > > Noel > This is certainly an element, Noel. But from what I have read about her, she is definitely sadistic because she loves to be angry. Anger may not be sadistic in its initial phase. But when it is harbored and cultivated, it always, always, always becomes vengeful. If you ignore this, you will be repeatedly hurt, until you learn your lesson. But I'm not saying that sadistic people should be blamed. Blame is really a veiled form of sadism, anyway: Because it's purpose is to justify punishment. No, I don't believe in blame. But I do believe in protecting myself. And I stay away from people who want to hurt me, if I can. If AC doesn't learn to protect himself from his wife, he will find himself more and more hurt. And it will take him longer and longer to recouperate from this. The worst part will be that he will himself become increasingly sadistic, as well We cannot help but become like those who victimize us. It's part of the Dharma, unfortunately. No one, however enlightened or healthy can avoid this. Sky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Noel <noel_beau@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- adithya_comming <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > To > > > my surprise, I noticed that most times > > > when I got angry my wife's mood would > > > dramatically change! She would become > > > very calm, her smile would return back > > > and she would start looking relaxed and > > > peaceful and a charming, cheery wife > > > that she many times is. It appeared as > > > if at the subconscious level all her > > > prior activities were simply to make me > > > angry/sad/depressed/miserable! > > > > > > Or, *maybe* quite simply to get your attention. > > > > When people feel ignored (which does not mean they > > really are, just that they feel so) or, if they have > > learned in their family that the only way they can get > > attention is by behaving this way. Well, it's called > > 'negative attention'. For some people any attention > > is better than none. > > > > Noel I think there is definitely some truth to it, Noel! But like Sky, I too think that is not all of it. Her fights have many times definitely started because she felt she was not getting enough attention. Her fights have also ended many times when she thought she was getting enough attention. I certainly don't know or understand all the reasons that my wife fights with me. I think many of them are due to unconsciousness and not being aware of what she is " actually " doing, a large part of it is due to wanting to " control " everything, some part of it is feeling insecure and the fear ob being abandoned, some part of it is low self esteem. However, it seems to me that a large part of it is just 'habitual' and she is somehow addicted to it. As I mentioned earlier, she fights with her brother pretty much every day [or every 3-4 hours] whenever they meet face-to- face [and little later they turn like loving brother and sister again]. I can't say if she looks for same kind of attention from her brother as she does from me [maybe, she does. Maybe she does need me to be the partner in fight when her brother is not available]. I have seen her fight many times fight when from my side I felt our relationship was very intimate, close and I felt I was providing her lot of attention. Later (in fact, just recently) I stopped spending too much time on analyzing " why she fights " and " what can I do to make her not fight " . I thought, ok I have seen enough and based on that I see that I have few choices. Living with my wife, as I saw it, is not that much different than living in place that is very cold and dark or a place of extreme heat and pollution, or a place where it rains all the time or... living in 'prison', or,even living disabilities and limitations. You know " what " this place is. You know what living here entails and you also know that you may not be able to really change it. You know what your choices are. You pick what seems like right choice to you and then, just deal with it. If you chose to live in Chicago... yes, it is going to be quite chilly, windy during long winter... but, so what! My hate for this kind of weather is unlikely to change the weather. All it can really do is hurt me even more than the weather itself! When I really can not handle this weather, I might get out but, while I am in this weather... I know it will mean snowfalls, bittery cold nights, I know I might need snow chains to travel, gloves, jackets and other warm clothes. I know, I can not get out to play 6 months in the year... But, that is just the " facts " of where I live. I either preapre myself and cope with or I suffer and feel worse... I saw that 'making my wife beahve some other way' was not one of the choices. > > > > > This is certainly an element, Noel. But from what I have read about > her, she is definitely sadistic because she loves to be angry. Anger > may not be sadistic in its initial phase. But when it is harbored and > cultivated, it always, always, always becomes vengeful. > > If you ignore this, you will be repeatedly hurt, until you learn your > lesson. But I'm not saying that sadistic people should be blamed. > Blame is really a veiled form of sadism, anyway: Because it's purpose > is to justify punishment. > > No, I don't believe in blame. But I do believe in protecting myself. > And I stay away from people who want to hurt me, if I can. > > If AC doesn't learn to protect himself from his wife, he will find > himself more and more hurt. And it will take him longer and longer to > recouperate from this. The worst part will be that he will himself > become increasingly sadistic, as well > > We cannot help but become like those who victimize us. It's part of > the Dharma, unfortunately. No one, however enlightened or healthy can > avoid this. Sky > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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