Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 The unimaginable design of this world is not possible to any soul. This single point is sufficient to say that the absolute Brahman cannot be any soul. Especially the creativity is unique with God or absolute Brahman. The soul can imagine new concepts but parts of such new concepts exist already in this creation. Suppose you have imagined an animal with eight legs and two tails. The animal, legs, tail are the parts, which already exist in this world. However, in the case of God before the creation of this world, no part existed. Therefore, the imagination of this design of world, which is the original creativity, is impossible for any soul. The only one hope that you have to say that awareness is Brahman (God) is also lost. The implementation of such impossible design is completely out of the scope of awareness. It comes in to the scope of the cosmic energy only. The dissolution of the world by the cosmic energy is also possible. Therefore, the materialization of the world and destruction of the matter come under the scope of energy only, which are completely impossible to awareness. The awareness cannot create even an atom or cannot destroy an atom. Ofcourse by this we do not say that the cosmic energy is the absolute Brahman. The reason is that the cosmic energy cannot design this world. The cosmic energy being the creation is the created item. Some other item, which is beyond the cosmic energy created it, since it cannot create itself. Therefore, you are unable to attain the absolute Brahman even in your imagination because every imaginable item shows some defects and fails to become the absolute Brahman. By such process of elimination of the items of creation, based on logical analysis, the Vedic sages have arrived at the conclusion that the absolute Brahman cannot be known (Neti Neti…). Its existence is obtained only from the scriptures, from the inference of cause to this wonderful world and from the experience given by the human incarnation through unimaginable knowledge and unimaginable miracles. At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami surya www.universal-spirituality.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 > The unimaginable design of this world is not possible to any soul. > This single point is sufficient to say that the absolute Brahman > cannot be any soul. Especially the creativity is unique with God or > absolute Brahman. The soul can imagine new concepts but parts of > such new concepts exist already in this creation. Suppose you have > imagined an animal with eight legs and two tails. The animal, legs, > tail are the parts, which already exist in this world. However, in > the case of God before the creation of this world, no part existed. > Therefore, the imagination of this design of world, which is the > original creativity, is impossible for any soul. The only one hope > that you have to say that awareness is Brahman (God) is also lost. > > The implementation of such impossible design is completely out of > the scope of awareness. It comes in to the scope of the cosmic > energy only. The dissolution of the world by the cosmic energy is > also possible. Therefore, the materialization of the world and > destruction of the matter come under the scope of energy only, which > are completely impossible to awareness. The awareness cannot create > even an atom or cannot destroy an atom. Ofcourse by this we do not > say that the cosmic energy is the absolute Brahman. The reason is > that the cosmic energy cannot design this world. The cosmic energy > being the creation is the created item. Some other item, which is > beyond the cosmic energy created it, since it cannot create itself. > > Therefore, you are unable to attain the absolute Brahman even in > your imagination because every imaginable item shows some defects > and fails to become the absolute Brahman. By such process of > elimination of the items of creation, based on logical analysis, the > Vedic sages have arrived at the conclusion that the absolute Brahman > cannot be known (Neti Neti…). Its existence is obtained only from > the scriptures, from the inference of cause to this wonderful world > and from the experience given by the human incarnation through > unimaginable knowledge and unimaginable miracles. > > At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami > surya Surya, what are you talking about ? Seems like you have to reincarnate to grasp Nisargadatta's term " Awareness " and what is Advaita Vedanta. Did you read anything by Niz ? Era > www.universal-spirituality.org > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Awareness is Soul or Atman or pure awareness. The inert energy, which comes from digestion of food, when flows through the nervous system generates the awareness. The human being looses consciousness (awareness) when food is not taken for longer time. Advaita vedanta revolves around on one single point 'i.e., Atman is Brahman (God)'. It further says, a soul when crosses avidya (ignorance about self) reaches self or atman, which in itself is Brahman. It essentially means the soul because of ignorance, thinks that it is this human body & it is this subtle body. When the soul realises and comes out of the illusion and thinks that it is eternal soul or Atman, it is assumed that it reached Atman, which is Brahman. But soul or awareness is not eternal because even in deep sleep also, awareness disappears. The very generation is dependent on food. Hence soul is not eternal but is a created item. at the lotus feet of datta swamiji surya Era Molnar <n0ndual wrote: > The unimaginable design of this world is not possible to any soul. > This single point is sufficient to say that the absolute Brahman > cannot be any soul. Especially the creativity is unique with God or > absolute Brahman. The soul can imagine new concepts but parts of > such new concepts exist already in this creation. Suppose you have > imagined an animal with eight legs and two tails. The animal, legs, > tail are the parts, which already exist in this world. However, in > the case of God before the creation of this world, no part existed. > Therefore, the imagination of this design of world, which is the > original creativity, is impossible for any soul. The only one hope > that you have to say that awareness is Brahman (God) is also lost. > > The implementation of such impossible design is completely out of > the scope of awareness. It comes in to the scope of the cosmic > energy only. The dissolution of the world by the cosmic energy is > also possible. Therefore, the materialization of the world and > destruction of the matter come under the scope of energy only, which > are completely impossible to awareness. The awareness cannot create > even an atom or cannot destroy an atom. Ofcourse by this we do not > say that the cosmic energy is the absolute Brahman. The reason is > that the cosmic energy cannot design this world. The cosmic energy > being the creation is the created item. Some other item, which is > beyond the cosmic energy created it, since it cannot create itself. > > Therefore, you are unable to attain the absolute Brahman even in > your imagination because every imaginable item shows some defects > and fails to become the absolute Brahman. By such process of > elimination of the items of creation, based on logical analysis, the > Vedic sages have arrived at the conclusion that the absolute Brahman > cannot be known (Neti Neti…). Its existence is obtained only from > the scriptures, from the inference of cause to this wonderful world > and from the experience given by the human incarnation through > unimaginable knowledge and unimaginable miracles. > > At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami > surya Surya, what are you talking about ? Seems like you have to reincarnate to grasp Nisargadatta's term " Awareness " and what is Advaita Vedanta. Did you read anything by Niz ? Era > www.universal-spirituality.org . Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Small Business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , prakki surya <dattapr2000 wrote: > > Awareness is Soul or Atman or pure awareness. The inert energy, which comes from digestion of food, when flows through the nervous system generates the awareness. The human being looses consciousness (awareness) when food is not taken for longer time. > > Advaita vedanta revolves around on one single point 'i.e., Atman is Brahman (God)'. It further says, a soul when crosses avidya (ignorance about self) reaches self or atman, which in itself is Brahman. It essentially means the soul because of ignorance, thinks that it is this human body & it is this subtle body. When the soul realises and comes out of the illusion and thinks that it is eternal soul or Atman, it is assumed that it reached Atman, which is Brahman. > > But soul or awareness is not eternal because even in deep sleep also, awareness disappears. The very generation is dependent on food. Hence soul is not eternal but is a created item. > > at the lotus feet of datta swamiji > surya Yes. And the one who speaks words is a limited awareness such as you describe, and the one who hears also is such a limited awareness. The exchange of words, experiences, and understandings goes back and forth between such limited beings. A limited being is not capable of knowing what is not limited. A limited awareness/being can exchange words which claim knowledge, but cannot know. Thus, the limited being with located awareness turns at last to understand his own limits. Rather than claiming knowledge of the limitless, she or he now inquires deeply into what the limits are of the identified self-awareness. Once these limits are clear, there is genuine humility - not for a show, but due to deep understanding of what cannot be held, what cannot be had. At this instant, the attempt to hold onto self as if that self could be the center of being -- that attempt must be relinquished. There is no choice, because understanding has shown the attempt for what it is - sheer vanity, grandiosity, greed, and a futile desire to establish something that can never truly be established. And in that relinquishment there is wisdom, there is knowing. Only through losing the hold on self-being, without relinquishing this attempt, this holding, the actuality of what is will not show itself as it is. Everything that is held through the self-attempt is divested - whether that be a scripture, a teacher, or more worldly things like a drug, or a feeling of pleasure, a seeking for escape, or a way to have status. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2006 Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 Surya: " Hence soul is not eternal but is a created item. " Dan: Yes. And the one who speaks words is a limited awareness such as you describe, and the one who hears also is such a limited awareness. The exchange of words, experiences, and understandings goes back and forth between such limited beings. A limited being is not capable of knowing what is not limited. A limited awareness/being can exchange words which claim knowledge, but cannot know. Thus, the limited being with located awareness turns at last to understand his own limits. Rather than claiming knowledge of the limitless, she or he now inquires deeply into what the limits are of the identified self-awareness. Once these limits are clear, there is genuine humility - not for a show, but due to deep understanding of what cannot be held, what cannot be had. At this instant, the attempt to hold onto self as if that self could be the center of being -- that attempt must be relinquished. There is no choice, because understanding has shown the attempt for what it is - sheer vanity, grandiosity, greed, and a futile desire to establish something that can never truly be established. And in that relinquishment there is wisdom, there is knowing. Only through losing the hold on self-being, without relinquishing this attempt, this holding, the actuality of what is will not show itself as it is. Everything that is held through the self-attempt is divested - whether that be a scripture, a teacher, or more worldly things like a drug, or a feeling of pleasure, a seeking for escape, or a way to have status. ***** Nisargadatta: There is only my-Self, Consciousness. ****** I am not even Consciousness, which is dual and perceivable: I am the unknown Reality beyond. Though unknown and unknowable, my real being is concrete and solid like a rock. I am the light that makes Consciousness possible, pure Awareness, the non-dualSelf, the Supreme Reality, the Absolute, the Beingness of being, the Awareness of consciousness.***** 2. I am the Self, the Witness of Consciousness, pure Awareness. I am only the Self , which is universal and imagines itself to be the outer self, a person. I am not an object in Consciousness but its source, its Witness, pure shapeless Awareness. Only the feeling " I am " , though in the World, is not of the World nor can be denied. 4. There is only one dreamer, the one Self, dreaming many dreams. In every body there is a dream, but the dreamer is the same, the one Self, which reflects itself in each body as " I am " . All the dreams are of a common imaginary World and influence each other. Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity. <http://www.nonduality.com/asmi.htm> > Awareness is Soul or Atman or pure awareness. The inert energy, which comes from digestion of food, when flows through the nervous system generates the awareness. The human being looses consciousness (awareness) when food is not taken for longer time. > > Advaita vedanta revolves around on one single point 'i.e., Atman is Brahman (God)'. It further says, a soul when crosses avidya (ignorance about self) reaches self or atman, which in itself is Brahman. It essentially means the soul because of ignorance, thinks that it is this human body & it is this subtle body. When the soul realises and comes out of the illusion and thinks that it is eternal soul or Atman, it is assumed that it reached Atman, which is Brahman. > > But soul or awareness is not eternal because even in deep sleep also, awareness disappears. The very generation is dependent on food. Hence soul is not eternal but is a created item. > > at the lotus feet of datta swamiji > surya love, Era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2006 Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 Dear friend Era Your initial points are fine. I agree with them. But, i disagree the last point 'I am not even Consciousness, which is dual and perceivable: I am the unknown Reality beyond'. As per Advaita, Brahman is the absolute reality and is beyond space. This world is only relative realty. So, your 'unknown reality in the above statement, can be the absolute reality because relative reality belongs to world and so can be understood. When you cannot know or imagine the absolute reality, how can you say that you are even beyond absolute reality? at the lotus feet of shri datta swamiji surya Era Molnar <n0ndual wrote: Surya: " Hence soul is not eternal but is a created item. " Dan: Yes. A limited being is not capable of knowing what is not limited. A limited awareness/being can exchange words which claim knowledge, but cannot know. Thus, the limited being with located awareness turns at last to understand his own limits. Rather than claiming knowledge of the limitless, she or he now inquires deeply into what the limits are of the identified self-awareness. Once these limits are clear, there is genuine humility - not for a show, but due to deep understanding of what cannot be held, what cannot be had. At this instant, the attempt to hold onto self as if that self could be the center of being -- that attempt must be relinquished. There is no choice, because understanding has shown the attempt for what it is - sheer vanity, grandiosity, greed, and a futile desire to establish something that can never truly be established. And in that relinquishment there is wisdom, there is knowing. Only through losing the hold on self-being, without relinquishing this attempt, this holding, the actuality of what is will not show itself as it is. Everything that is held through the self-attempt is divested - whether that be a scripture, a teacher, or more worldly things like a drug, or a feeling of pleasure, a seeking for escape, or a way to have status. I am not even Consciousness, which is dual and perceivable: I am the unknown Reality beyond. . How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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