Awareness is Brahman? -surya

[Guest guest]

> Dear friend Era

>

> Your initial points are fine. I agree with them. But, i disagree the last

point

 

'I am not even Consciousness, which is dual and perceivable: I am the unknown

Reality beyond'.

 

dear friend Surya,

 

First of all I'm just studying Niz for 2 years only and I'm not an authority at

all on Advaita

 

I wish Dan to continue this dialogue, IMO he answered already <scroll down>

 

IMO our belief systems we are rooted in different Darshanas. Please google " 6

hindu philosophies " in http://wikipedia.org but the brief is bellow* here.

 

Advaita Vedanta teaches to turn inward, examine oneself, to do self-inquiry

without pretece, discard all maya with neti neti, surrender the small self thus

find the center the divine: the Self.

 

[Ramana on tatma-vichara

<Nisargadatta/message/49330> or message #1 by Hur]

 

IMO Dvaita are looking for God [guru] outside themselves and have a " devotional "

base.

The jiva, or Soul pushes outward in order to seek God, Enlightenment.

A person goes towards the outer reality for god, [enlightenment] until the s/he

(jiva-soul) gets exhausted gives up searching and returns to thinking of God in

his own heart and to worshipping the Self inside her/himself as a

witness/awareness thus

the search ends by finding the indwelling Self [God, Advaitins call it the Self,

Saivites Siva, the Christians the holy spirit, Islam Alah and countless other

names]

 

Jessus also said

that the kingdom of Heaven is within and all Guru's send us inward too

 

Surya, IMO it is ok to disagree just don't go to war about it <grin> tightly

held believes, fundamentalism lead to terror, wars.. I say: " whatever gets you

through the night its' all right, its' allright "

 

--the sentence you brought up makes sense only together with the rest:

 

* Nisargadatta:

 

There is only my-Self, Consciousness. *

 

I am not even Consciousness, which is dual and perceivable: I am the

unknown Reality beyond.

 

note: IMO Niz here identifies with his BEING the reality of his being, not with

Consciousness [consciousness here would be what he holds: his personal

consciousness] He identifies with BEING what is REAL [and that is what 'dreams'

up the world: his world, his reality]

 

V^V^V^

 

N: Though unknown and unknowable, my real being is concrete and solid like a

rock.

 

I am the light that makes Consciousness possible, pure Awareness, the

non-dualSelf, the Supreme Reality, the Absolute, the Beingness of being,

the Awareness of consciousness.*****

 

2. I am the Self, the Witness of Consciousness, pure Awareness.

 

I am only the Self , which is universal and imagines itself to be the

outer self, a person.

 

I am not an object in Consciousness but its source, its Witness, pure

shapeless Awareness.

 

Only the feeling " I am " , though in the World, is not of the World nor

can be denied.

 

4. There is only one dreamer, the one Self, dreaming many dreams.

 

In every body there is a dream, but the dreamer is the same, the one

Self, which reflects itself in each body as " I am " .

 

All the dreams are of a common imaginary World and influence each other.

 

Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity.

 

<http://www.nonduality.com/asmi.htm>

 

V^V^V^

 

*Vedantins debated whether the reality of Brahman was Saguna

(with attributes) or Nirguna (without attributes).

 

[belief in the concept

of Saguna Brahman gave rise to a proliferation of *devotional attitudes

and more widespread worship of Vishnu and Shiva. ]

 

Advaita Vedanta is

strictly grounded in the thought that the ultimate truth is Nirguna Brahman.

.............

 

Advaita claims Avidya [ignorance] is terminated and removed by Brahma-vidya, the

intuition of

the reality of Brahman as pure, undifferentiated consciousness: Nirguna Brahman

 

The removal of Avidya for the Advaitin,

the bondage in which we dwell

before the attainment of Moksa is caused by Maya and Avidya; knowledge of

reality is Brahma-vidya

 

V^V^V^V^

 

The 6 Hindu philosophies

 

1.1 Samkhya

1.2 Yoga

1.3 Nyaya

1.4 Vaisheshika

1.5 Purva Mimamsa

1.6 Vedanta:

 

1.6.1 Advaita Vedanta

1.6.2 Vishistadvaita

1.6.3 Dvaita

1.6.4 Acintya Bheda-Abheda Vedanta

 

 

love,

Era

 

nnb

 

> As per Advaita, Brahman is the absolute reality and is beyond space. This

world is only relative realty. So, your 'unknown reality in the above statement,

can be the absolute reality because relative reality belongs to world and so can

be understood. When you cannot know or imagine the absolute reality, how can you

say that you are even beyond absolute reality?

>

> at the lotus feet of shri datta swamiji

> surya

>

>

> Era Molnar <n0ndual@> wrote:

> Surya: " Hence soul is not eternal but is a created item. "

>

> Dan: Yes.

>

> A limited being is not capable of knowing what is not limited.

> A limited awareness/being can exchange words which claim knowledge,

> but cannot know.

> Thus, the limited being with located awareness turns at last to

> understand his own limits.

> Rather than claiming knowledge of the limitless, she or he now

> inquires deeply into what the limits are of the identified self-awareness.

> Once these limits are clear, there is genuine humility - not for a

> show, but due to deep understanding of what cannot be held, what

> cannot be had.

> At this instant, the attempt to hold onto self as if that self could

> be the center of being -- that attempt must be relinquished. There is

> no choice, because understanding has shown the attempt for what it is

> - sheer vanity, grandiosity, greed, and a futile desire to establish

> something that can never truly be established.

> And in that relinquishment there is wisdom, there is knowing.

> Only through losing the hold on self-being, without relinquishing this

> attempt, this holding, the actuality of what is will not show itself

> as it is.

> Everything that is held through the self-attempt is divested - whether

> that be a scripture, a teacher, or more worldly things like a drug, or

> a feeling of pleasure, a seeking for escape, or a way to have status.

>

>

> I am not even Consciousness, which is dual and perceivable: I am the

> unknown Reality beyond.

>

 

Era