Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Randy wrote (>>) on GR: >>Here lies the rub ..THIS IS NOT A MEDITATION...example when Ramana woke up at the tender age of 17 Possible, yes, maybe, he " woke up " . >>..what do you think he realized during those moments? Possibly " non existence " of the " self " that he had thought he was. Possibly, the realization of the Self that was before and beyond " thoughts " , Possibly the realization of the Self that really was... possibly the realization of the Self that he never " thought " there was... >> And then did he not go to the mountain and have years of cave time..yes..well one needs to be careful not to put the cart ahead of the horse..There is literally worlds and worlds of difference here.. >>Ramana was always in the present moment after his realization at 17 I don't find any " proof " to that. To me, Ramana appears like many other " normal " human beings who has gone through many phases and had many emotions, moods, feelings, thoughts that other humans do. I do find him very honest, truthful, and very strong willed and very disciplined though. >>..after that he did what he needed to do for his own vansanas. Yes, That could be true. >>if you try to do this in reverse my friend then your missing the whole point There are indeed many who have done it in the reverse way and have done it quite successfully i.e. they did mediation, " working on Vassanas " , " strengthening the mind " , " contemplation " ... before getting " realization " of Self. Example of those might include: - Gautama the Buddha - Papaji Adyashanti There area also many who 'appear " to have not done adequate " practice " either before or after their " so called " " realization " ! As a result they appear to be still very much " driven " by Vassanas. Examples of those might include: - Ramesh - Wayne Liquorman - The whole breed of ramesh - Liquorman style " realizers " - Many people on this very site too " appear " to be that way - examples might include ac and randy, and many others whom I would not mention in order to stay away from long arguments and " defense attack " with " other " " realizers " ! >>..For some this can be a subtle point, though in my opinion it as critical as any point can be..One needs to start where Ramana started, all else before that will simply take you further away not closer to That which you seek..Which is You.. I don't find that true. There are people like Ramana, Tolle on whom realization seemed to happen all of a sudden and those kinds of people have usually done a lot of real " practice " in order to " integrate " it into their life. There are people like Adyashanti, Papaji who had done lot of " practice " before and then realization happened to them. They found " integration " quite easy because they had already developed a strong, steady mind due to their practice before realization. I find it quite " enlightening " that people in the first category (Ramana, Tolle) have talked a great deal about the need to practice, strengthen mind, and remain watchful in order to make realization steady. People in the other category (Papaji, Adya) have talked about needing to " relax " , " not needing to do anything " , " no need of an effort " , " effort being in the way " . One possible explanation is that... " people say what they need to hear most " ! Other possible explanation is that they were just expression what was true for them! People with no prior practice needed lot of practice in order to make " realization " a steady reality. People with lot of practice already had steady, strong mind to sustain any 'state'. They realized realization itself was not an 'effort' - and, 'sustaining' it was never a problem for them because of their mind already having become quite steady due to long disciplined practice. >>Blessings >>PanamaRandy Apologies Adithya_Comming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Randy wrote (>>) on GR: > > > >>Here lies the rub ..THIS IS NOT A MEDITATION...example when Ramana > woke up at the tender age of 17 > > Possible, yes, maybe, he " woke up " . > > >>..what do you think he realized during those moments? > > Possibly " non existence " of the " self " > that he had thought he was. > > Possibly, the realization of the Self that was before and > beyond " thoughts " , > > Possibly the realization of the Self that really was... > > possibly the realization of the Self that he never > " thought " there was... > > > > >> And then did he not go to the mountain and have years > of cave time..yes..well one needs to be careful not to put the cart > ahead of the horse..There is literally worlds and worlds of > difference here.. > > >>Ramana was always in the present moment after his > realization at 17 > > I don't find any " proof " to that. > > To me, Ramana appears like many other " normal " human beings who has > gone through many phases and had many emotions, moods, feelings, > thoughts that other humans do. I do find him very honest, truthful, > and very strong willed and very disciplined though. > > > >>..after that he did what he needed to do for his own > vansanas. > > Yes, That could be true. > > > >>if you try to do this in reverse my friend then your > missing the whole point > > There are indeed many who have done it in the reverse way and have > done it quite successfully i.e. they did mediation, " working on > Vassanas " , " strengthening the mind " , " contemplation " ... before > getting " realization " of Self. Example of those might include: > > - Gautama the Buddha > > - Papaji > > Adyashanti > > > There area also many who 'appear " to have not done > adequate " practice " either before or after their " so > called " " realization " ! As a result they appear to be still very > much " driven " by Vassanas. Examples of those might include: > > - Ramesh > - Wayne Liquorman > > - The whole breed of ramesh - Liquorman style " realizers " > > - Many people on this very site too " appear " to be that way - > examples might include ac and randy, and many others whom I would > not mention in order to stay away from long arguments and " defense > attack " with " other " " realizers " ! > > > > > >>..For some this can be a subtle point, though > in my opinion it as critical as any point can be..One needs to start > where Ramana started, all else before that will simply take you > further away not closer to That which you seek..Which is You.. > > I don't find that true. > > There are people like Ramana, Tolle on whom realization seemed to > happen all of a sudden and those kinds of people have usually done a > lot of real " practice " in order to " integrate " it into their life. > > There are people like Adyashanti, Papaji who had done lot > of " practice " before and then realization happened to them. They > found " integration " quite easy because they had already developed a > strong, steady mind due to their practice before realization. > > I find it quite " enlightening " that people in the first category > (Ramana, Tolle) have talked a great deal about the need to practice, > strengthen mind, and remain watchful in order to make realization > steady. > > People in the other category (Papaji, Adya) have talked about > needing to " relax " , " not needing to do anything " , " no need of an > effort " , " effort being in the way " . > > One possible explanation is that... " people say what they need to > hear most " ! > > Other possible explanation is that they were just expression what > was true for them! People with no prior practice needed lot of > practice in order to make " realization " a steady reality. People > with lot of practice already had steady, strong mind to sustain > any 'state'. They realized realization itself was not an 'effort' - > and, 'sustaining' it was never a problem for them because of their > mind already having become quite steady due to long disciplined > practice. > > > > > >>Blessings > >>PanamaRandy > > > Apologies > Adithya_Comming > An enlightened person is like a sund-up shadow. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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