Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 - I have never " solved " any " personal " * problems - I have only understood how I created them! - In mental/verbal fights, it is not really the " attack " that hurt me what really hurt me was the idea that 'I had to defend'. The mechanism that used to defend and attack was anger, hate and low grade resentment. All of these burnt more than few cells in my body irrespective of what I did externally. - It was true that in communication I sometimes needed to use words that convey anger, displeasure, complain but I noticed that it was possible to use those words without really being angry inside! - I never really understood why I did something unless I had made conscious well understood decision to do it before hand. I.e. I didn't really understand " who " decides to do something and " why " when I didn't make that decision myself in my full consciousness. I saw that trying to understand that was not much easier than trying to understand the reason behind a dream. - Thoughts seemed to come on their own yet follow some kind of stream... where one though leads to next thought in the series and by entertaining every though I sowed the seed for the next in the series. - Thoughts still seemed to work mostly in the unconscious part - just like the dreams - in the conscious part only options available to me were - entertain them and do what they say, watch them and let them go, focus on what I want to do, watch them, understand them and then decide what I want to do based on the understanding of purpose and priorities. When I was unconscious, first one (entertain thoughts and do what they say) was the only option I had! More I chose one choice - easier it became to choose the same choice next time that the thought came. - Thoughts that didn't get physically or mentally entertained slowly stopped coming. - Whatever I did... worked towards building a 'habit' of it! - When I was unconscious [which was still most of the times]; habits were what drove me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , Adithya K <adithya_comming wrote: > > > > - I have never " solved " any > " personal " * problems - " You " are nothing other then your personal problems. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 > > > > - I have never " solved " any > " personal " * problems - I have only > understood how I created them! > - In mental/verbal fights, it is not really the " attack " that hurt me. what really hurt me was My Own Defense - the idea that 'I had to defend' and the mechanism that I used for it! The mechanism that used to defend and 'counter attack' were anger, hate and low grade resentment. All of these burnt cells inside my body irrespective of what I did externally. [...] > > - Thoughts that didn't get physically > or mentally entertained slowly stopped > coming. > > - Whatever I did... worked towards > building a 'habit' of it! > > - When I was unconscious [which was still > most of the times]; habits were > what drove me! > - When I was unconscious [which was still most of the times]; habits** were what drove me! --- * " personal " - also known as 'mental', 'thought based' **When I was unconscious; habits** were what drove me - i.e. unless I became " conscious " I was just going to *repeat* what I had done in the past! Unless I became *conscious*, I was pretty much like a 'predictable' machine - given same set of input and operating conditions - it was *bound* to do the same thing again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Adithya K <adithya_comming@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > - I have never " solved " any > > " personal " * problems - > > > > > > " You " are nothing other then your personal problems. > toombaru IMO... Above is more " truthfully " expressed as: In my experience, I, Toombaru am nothing other than my personal problems. And, that goes for pretty much everything you write T. I think it will be more " truthful " if addressed what you wrote to 'yourself' [Toombaru] than someone else. Because, if you are like " me " , you are the Only one that you really know about... Why lie then??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 - It was a mistake to expect people to be honest or truthful. In our " civilized " , " cultured " , " educated " society honesty and truthfulness were no longer a 'norm' but rather an 'exception'. Many people were so used to being dishonest and lying now that they didn't even realize it anymore. It become part of who they are - and, by expecting them to do something else was akin to expecting a cat to bark! With this understanding, it was possible for me to be pleasantly surprised and very thankful and grateful for honesty, truthfulness whenever I encountered it and be relatively fine with dishonesty, lies as I understood it as the was part of 'normal condition'. I discovered that this version was closer to reality and honesty and truthfulness in the " civilized " world was more a part of fantasy and keeping that 'expectation' largely hurt as it was against common reality! - I hated fighting, long arguments, struggles, wars and, I noticed that reason I hated it was because of what I 'went thru' during fights, arguments and battles! I went through rage, anger, hate, resentment and each of them felt very bitter and unpleasant to my body and my mind. Later, I learnt to *fight*, argue, criticize, use strong words without feeling anger, resentment, hate or rage inside - but, just as a " tool " , a means for some purpose. Whenever I *fought* this way - " fighting " didn't hurt Inside! - Once the anger had set in - I was better off getting in total touch with it and expressing it honestly, truthfully and literally. When I didn't do it - it felt like a poison inside! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Adithya K <adithya_comming@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - I have never " solved " any > > > " personal " * problems - > > > > > > > > > > > > " You " are nothing other then your personal problems. > > > toombaru > > > IMO... > > Above is more " truthfully " expressed as: > > In my experience, I, Toombaru am nothing other > than my personal problems. > > And, that goes for pretty much everything you > write T. > > I think it will be more " truthful " if addressed > what you wrote to 'yourself' [Toombaru] than someone > else. Because, if you are like " me " , you are the > Only one that you really know about... > > Why lie then??? > If your present belief system makes you happy................ toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Adithya K <adithya_comming@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I have never " solved " any > > > > " personal " * problems - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " You " are nothing other then your personal problems. > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > IMO... > > > > Above is more " truthfully " expressed as: > > > > In my experience, I, Toombaru am nothing other > > than my personal problems. > > > > And, that goes for pretty much everything you > > write T. > > > > I think it will be more " truthful " if addressed > > what you wrote to 'yourself' [Toombaru] than someone > > else. Because, if you are like " me " , you are the > > Only one that you really know about... > > > > Why lie then??? > > If your present belief system makes you happy................ > > toombaru Again you are talking about a " you " T! Who is that " you " you talk so much about??? What do you really know about him/her? Why not just address it to " me " [Toombaru] whom you might " really " know about? Why not talk about what my[Toombaru's] philosphy does to me[Toombaru]! " You " is an an unknown entity, isn't it? Talk about the one that you might really know about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > > > > > > > > > - I have never " solved " any > > " personal " * problems - I have only > > understood how I created them! > > > > - In mental/verbal fights, it is not > really the " attack " that hurt me. what > really hurt me was My Own Defense - the > idea that 'I had to defend' and the mechanism > that I used for it! > > The mechanism that used to > defend and 'counter attack' were anger, hate and > low grade resentment. All of these > burnt cells inside my body > irrespective of what I did externally. > > [...] > > > > > > - Thoughts that didn't get physically > > or mentally entertained slowly stopped > > coming. > > > > - Whatever I did... worked towards > > building a 'habit' of it! > > > > - When I was unconscious [which was still > > most of the times]; habits were > > what drove me! > > > There is no 'you' outside of the mechanical reactions that will ever be able to see what's going on. It IS what's going on. (Now watch the how the mechanical reactions bubble to the surface in an attempt to defend the personal Kingdom-of-Me.) If you are ever going to get out of this mess......it will not be through the introspective attempt to understand and remove 'character defects'. It will come only through the understanding of the mechanical reactional devise that calls itself " adithya_comming " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I have never " solved " any > > > " personal " * problems - I have only > > > understood how I created them! > > > > > > > - In mental/verbal fights, it is not > > really the " attack " that hurt me. what > > really hurt me was My Own Defense - the > > idea that 'I had to defend' and the mechanism > > that I used for it! > > > > The mechanism that used to > > defend and 'counter attack' were anger, hate and > > low grade resentment. All of these > > burnt cells inside my body > > irrespective of what I did externally. > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > - Thoughts that didn't get physically > > > or mentally entertained slowly stopped > > > coming. > > > > > > - Whatever I did... worked towards > > > building a 'habit' of it! > > > > > > - When I was unconscious [which was still > > > most of the times]; habits were > > > what drove me! > > > > > > > > > There is no 'you' outside of the mechanical reactions that will ever > be able to see what's going on. > > It IS what's going on. > > > (Now watch the how the mechanical reactions bubble to the surface in > an attempt to defend the personal Kingdom-of-Me.) > > If you are ever going to get out of this mess......it will not be > through the introspective attempt to understand and remove 'character > defects'. > > It will come only through the understanding of the mechanical > reactional devise that calls itself " adithya_comming " . > Those who speak don't know Those who don't speak know anonymus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 > I think it will be more " truthful " if addressed > what you wrote to 'yourself' [Toombaru] than someone > else. Because, if you are like " me " , you are the > Only one that you really know about... In ancient China, two monks were walking by a pond. As they looked in it one of them said, " Look at that fish, swimming around without a care in this world " . The second monk said, " How do you know what the fish feels? You are not the fish " . The first monk replied, How do you know what I know? You are not me. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I have never " solved " any > > > " personal " * problems - I have only > > > understood how I created them! > > > > > > > - In mental/verbal fights, it is not > > really the " attack " that hurt me. what > > really hurt me was My Own Defense - the > > idea that 'I had to defend' and the mechanism > > that I used for it! > > > > The mechanism that used to > > defend and 'counter attack' were anger, hate and > > low grade resentment. All of these > > burnt cells inside my body > > irrespective of what I did externally. > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > - Thoughts that didn't get physically > > > or mentally entertained slowly stopped > > > coming. > > > > > > - Whatever I did... worked towards > > > building a 'habit' of it! > > > > > > - When I was unconscious [which was still > > > most of the times]; habits were > > > what drove me! > > > > > > > >>There is no 'you' outside of the mechanical reactions that will ever be able to see what's going on. Is it truer to say that: I(Toombaru) am not aware of any I beyond 'mechanical reactions'? Or, would you rather speak for me (Adithya_Comming) that you almost nothing about??? >>It IS what's going on. >>(Now watch the how the mechanical reactions bubble to the surface in an attempt to defend the personal Kingdom-of-Me.) I am watching... I don't see much going on At the Moment! >>If you are ever going to get out of this mess...... What are you calling a " mess " ? >>it will not be through the introspective attempt to understand and remove 'character defects'. What " mess " you are talking about? " Who " is planning to get out of it? " Who " wants to get out of it? What you find wrong with the thing that you call 'mess' ....that you call it a 'mess'? >>It will come only through the understanding of the mechanical reactional devise that calls itself " adithya_comming " . How do " you " know that??? Have you understood the mechanical reactional devise that calls itself " Toombaru " ??? If yes, can you share your understanding of him with us? And, please if possible, address it to Toombaru and not to some 'you'[ac or x, y, z] that you know very little about. Love, ac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I have never " solved " any > > > > " personal " * problems - I have only > > > > understood how I created them! > > > > > > > > > > - In mental/verbal fights, it is not > > > really the " attack " that hurt me. what > > > really hurt me was My Own Defense - the > > > idea that 'I had to defend' and the mechanism > > > that I used for it! > > > > > > The mechanism that used to > > > defend and 'counter attack' were anger, hate and > > > low grade resentment. All of these > > > burnt cells inside my body > > > irrespective of what I did externally. > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Thoughts that didn't get physically > > > > or mentally entertained slowly stopped > > > > coming. > > > > > > > > - Whatever I did... worked towards > > > > building a 'habit' of it! > > > > > > > > - When I was unconscious [which was still > > > > most of the times]; habits were > > > > what drove me! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no 'you' outside of the mechanical reactions that will ever > > be able to see what's going on. > > > > It IS what's going on. > > > > > > (Now watch the how the mechanical reactions bubble to the surface in > > an attempt to defend the personal Kingdom-of-Me.) > > > > If you are ever going to get out of this mess......it will not be > > through the introspective attempt to understand and > remove 'character > > defects'. > > > > It will come only through the understanding of the mechanical > > reactional devise that calls itself " adithya_comming " . > > > > Those who speak don't know > > Those who don't speak know > > anonymus > It was Lao-tse that uttered those words and in doing so negated even himself. It's a slippery little dream eh? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I have never " solved " any > > > > " personal " * problems - I have only > > > > understood how I created them! > > > > > > > > > > - In mental/verbal fights, it is not > > > really the " attack " that hurt me. what > > > really hurt me was My Own Defense - the > > > idea that 'I had to defend' and the mechanism > > > that I used for it! > > > > > > The mechanism that used to > > > defend and 'counter attack' were anger, hate and > > > low grade resentment. All of these > > > burnt cells inside my body > > > irrespective of what I did externally. > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Thoughts that didn't get physically > > > > or mentally entertained slowly stopped > > > > coming. > > > > > > > > - Whatever I did... worked towards > > > > building a 'habit' of it! > > > > > > > > - When I was unconscious [which was still > > > > most of the times]; habits were > > > > what drove me! > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>There is no 'you' outside of the mechanical reactions that will > ever be able to see what's going on. > > Is it truer to say that: > > I(Toombaru) am not aware of any I beyond 'mechanical reactions'? > > > > Or, > > would you rather speak for me (Adithya_Comming) > that you almost nothing about??? > Wrong. I know absolutely nothing about Adithya_Comming....nor can " I " ever. > > >>It IS what's going on. > > > >>(Now watch the how the mechanical reactions bubble to the surface > in an attempt to defend the personal Kingdom-of-Me.) > > I am watching... > > I don't see much going on At the Moment! The " I " that thinks that it is looking IS whats going on....and in responding.........it is defending its imaginary stance. > > > > >>If you are ever going to get out of this mess...... > > What are you calling a " mess " ? The illusory dream of separation......the 'suffering'......the 'quiet despiration'. > > >>it will not be through the introspective attempt to understand and > remove 'character defects'. > > What " mess " you are talking about? > > " Who " is planning to get out of it? > > " Who " wants to get out of it? > " You' do. All of your ramblings are about releasing the tension of imagined isolation. > > > What you find wrong with the thing that you call 'mess' > ...that you call it a 'mess'? Relax into the dream...........If you can. Be happy..........If you can. Be content..........If you can. > > > > >>It will come only through the understanding of the mechanical > reactional devise that calls itself " adithya_comming " . > > How do " you " know that??? It is known. > > > Have you understood the mechanical reactional devise > that calls itself " Toombaru " ??? Yes. > > If yes, can you share your understanding of him with us? No.........You are characters within my personal dream. I like you just as you are......... > > And, please if possible, > address it to Toombaru and not to some > 'you'[ac or x, y, z] that you know very little about. > > Every word is only and always addressed to 'toombaru'. > Love, > ac. > Please........It is impossible for 'you' to love 'me'. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I have never " solved " any > > > > > " personal " * problems - I have only > > > > > understood how I created them! > > > > > > > > > > > > > - In mental/verbal fights, it is not > > > > really the " attack " that hurt me. what > > > > really hurt me was My Own Defense - the > > > > idea that 'I had to defend' and the mechanism > > > > that I used for it! > > > > > > > > The mechanism that used to > > > > defend and 'counter attack' were anger, hate and > > > > low grade resentment. All of these > > > > burnt cells inside my body > > > > irrespective of what I did externally. > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Thoughts that didn't get physically > > > > > or mentally entertained slowly stopped > > > > > coming. > > > > > > > > > > - Whatever I did... worked towards > > > > > building a 'habit' of it! > > > > > > > > > > - When I was unconscious [which was still > > > > > most of the times]; habits were > > > > > what drove me! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>There is no 'you' outside of the mechanical reactions that will > > ever be able to see what's going on. > > > > Is it truer to say that: > > > > I(Toombaru) am not aware of any I beyond 'mechanical reactions'? > > > > > > > > Or, > > > > would you rather speak for me (Adithya_Comming) > > that you almost nothing about??? > > > > > > Wrong. > > I know absolutely nothing about Adithya_Comming....nor can " I " ever. Ok. That sounds fair enough to me. > > > > >>It IS what's going on. > > > > > > >>(Now watch the how the mechanical reactions bubble to the surface > > in an attempt to defend the personal Kingdom-of-Me.) > > > > I am watching... > > > > I don't see much going on At the Moment! > > > > The " I " that thinks that it is looking IS whats going on....and in > responding.........it is defending its imaginary stance. That is not my experience, Toomabaru. There are times when I am defending There are also times when I am completely Open, Naked, Vulnerable, All Out in Open with all defenses suspended. > > > > > > > > > >>If you are ever going to get out of this mess...... > > > > What are you calling a " mess " ? > > > > The illusory dream of separation......the 'suffering'......the 'quiet despiration'. I don't see a 'dream of separation', Toombaru! I can't say I ever have. Neither am I looking for some kind of union. Suffering I can understand and relate to... I understand it as 'bitter', harse harmones flowing inside my body... and, that I see just as the part of What Is. It is there for some purpose... and, they operate based on certain laws... Some of them I underatand, some I don't... Some 'laws' [that govern the flow of these bitter harmones] I do underatnd... still violate them sometimes... and, they flow... Some of these laws I don't even know and only see the impact of violating them after those harsh harmones are alreday part of the blood stream. > > > > > >>it will not be through the introspective attempt to understand and > > remove 'character defects'. > > > > What " mess " you are talking about? > > > > " Who " is planning to get out of it? > > > > " Who " wants to get out of it? > > > > > " You' do. That is not true. Fire burns... Water cools... Roses smell plaesant... Acid smells harsh... This is the part of the " nature " , part of 'what is', .... I can not expect or hope to get out of it. When I touch fire... it burns I have no burning expectation or wish of getting out of this law. Sometimes I might touch the " fire " because of ignorance, sometimes because of unawareness... but, when I touch... it will burn. I can not get out of the 'system', I can only be *aware* of how it *works*! > > All of your ramblings are about releasing the tension of imagined > isolation. That is not true. Some of my " ramblings " are simply about sharing what I have observed. Like I have observed that: when I drink water it quenches my thirst. > > > > > > > What you find wrong with the thing that you call 'mess' > > ...that you call it a 'mess'? > > > > Relax into the dream...........If you can. > > Be happy..........If you can. > > Be content..........If you can. > Many times, I am in fact quite content, happy, relaxed... There are also times when I am not relaxed, content or happy... I don't expect/wish/want to reach a state where I am " always " relaxed, content and happy. That may never happen and as far as I know I am fine with it. > > > > > > > > > >>It will come only through the understanding of the mechanical > > reactional devise that calls itself " adithya_comming " . > > > > How do " you " know that??? > > It is known. Ok. > > > > > > > Have you understood the mechanical reactional devise > > that calls itself " Toombaru " ??? > > > Yes. Ok. Please share your knowledge of " the mechanical reactional devise that calls itself " Toombaru " " with us. > > > > > If yes, can you share your understanding of him [Toombaru] with us? > > > No.........You are characters within my personal dream. > > I like you just as you are......... By " him " above I meant Toombaru not ac. [i have reworded it to make it clerarer now] > > > > And, please if possible, > > address it to Toombaru and not to some > > 'you'[ac or x, y, z] that you know very little about. > > > Every word is only and always addressed to 'toombaru'. I would like you to make it clearer by using comonly used terms to refer to oneself suich as " I " , " me " in place of referring it to " you " , " ac " , X, Y, Z... Because, when you do that it confuses me and I wonder are you really insane to claim to know so much about " me " a person whom you have never even met??? Talk about yourself aand please make it CLEAR by using words like 'I', 'me'. > > > Love, > > ac. > > > > > > > Please........It is impossible for 'you' to love 'me'. That " Love " is for " me " . I just like how it feels INSIDE Me! > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I have never " solved " any > > > > > > " personal " * problems - I have only > > > > > > understood how I created them! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - In mental/verbal fights, it is not > > > > > really the " attack " that hurt me. what > > > > > really hurt me was My Own Defense - the > > > > > idea that 'I had to defend' and the mechanism > > > > > that I used for it! > > > > > > > > > > The mechanism that used to > > > > > defend and 'counter attack' were anger, hate and > > > > > low grade resentment. All of these > > > > > burnt cells inside my body > > > > > irrespective of what I did externally. > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Thoughts that didn't get physically > > > > > > or mentally entertained slowly stopped > > > > > > coming. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Whatever I did... worked towards > > > > > > building a 'habit' of it! > > > > > > > > > > > > - When I was unconscious [which was still > > > > > > most of the times]; habits were > > > > > > what drove me! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>There is no 'you' outside of the mechanical reactions that will > > > ever be able to see what's going on. > > > > > > Is it truer to say that: > > > > > > I(Toombaru) am not aware of any I beyond 'mechanical reactions'? > > > > > > > > > > > > Or, > > > > > > would you rather speak for me (Adithya_Comming) > > > that you almost nothing about??? > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong. > > > > I know absolutely nothing about Adithya_Comming....nor can " I " ever. > > Ok. > > That sounds fair enough to me. > > > > > > > > > >>It IS what's going on. > > > > > > > > > >>(Now watch the how the mechanical reactions bubble to the surface > > > in an attempt to defend the personal Kingdom-of-Me.) > > > > > > I am watching... > > > > > > I don't see much going on At the Moment! > > > > > > > > > The " I " that thinks that it is looking IS whats going on....and in > > responding.........it is defending its imaginary stance. > > That is not my experience, Toomabaru. > > > There are times when I am defending > > There are also times when I am completely Open, Naked, Vulnerable, All > Out in Open with all defenses suspended. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>If you are ever going to get out of this mess...... > > > > > > What are you calling a " mess " ? > > > > > > > > The illusory dream of separation......the 'suffering'......the > 'quiet despiration'. > > I don't see a 'dream of separation', Toombaru! > > I can't say I ever have. > > Neither am I looking for some kind of union. > > > Suffering I can understand and relate to... > > I understand it as 'bitter', harse harmones > flowing inside my body... > > and, that I see just as the part of What Is. > > It is there for some purpose... > and, they operate based on certain laws... > > > > Some of them I underatand, some I don't... > > > Some 'laws' [that govern the flow of these bitter > harmones] I do underatnd... still violate them > sometimes... and, they flow... > > Some of these laws I don't even know and only see the impact of > violating them after those harsh harmones are alreday part > of the blood stream. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>it will not be through the introspective attempt to understand and > > > remove 'character defects'. > > > > > > What " mess " you are talking about? > > > > > > " Who " is planning to get out of it? > > > > > > " Who " wants to get out of it? > > > > > > > > > " You' do. > > That is not true. > > Fire burns... > > Water cools... > > Roses smell plaesant... > > Acid smells harsh... > > > > This is the part of the " nature " , part of 'what is', > ... I can not expect or hope to get out of it. > > When I touch fire... it burns > I have no burning expectation or wish of getting > out of this law. > > Sometimes I might touch the " fire " because > of ignorance, sometimes because of unawareness... > > but, when I touch... it will burn. > > > I can not get out of the 'system', > I can only be *aware* of how it *works*! > > > > > > All of your ramblings are about releasing the tension of imagined > > isolation. > > > That is not true. > > Some of my " ramblings " are simply about > sharing what I have observed. > > Like I have observed that: when I drink water > it quenches my thirst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you find wrong with the thing that you call 'mess' > > > ...that you call it a 'mess'? > > > > > > > > Relax into the dream...........If you can. > > > > Be happy..........If you can. > > > > Be content..........If you can. > > > > Many times, I am in fact quite content, happy, relaxed... > > There are also times when I am not relaxed, content or happy... > > > I don't expect/wish/want to reach a state where > I am " always " relaxed, content and happy. > > That may never happen and as far as I know > I am fine with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>It will come only through the understanding of the mechanical > > > reactional devise that calls itself " adithya_comming " . > > > > > > How do " you " know that??? > > > > It is known. > > Ok. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you understood the mechanical reactional devise > > > that calls itself " Toombaru " ??? > > > > > > Yes. > > Ok. > > Please share your knowledge of > " the mechanical reactional devise > that calls itself " Toombaru " " with us. > > > > > > > > > > If yes, can you share your understanding of him [Toombaru] with us? > > > > > > No.........You are characters within my personal dream. > > > > I like you just as you are......... > > By " him " above I meant Toombaru not ac. > [i have reworded it to make it clerarer now] > > > > > > > > And, please if possible, > > > address it to Toombaru and not to some > > > 'you'[ac or x, y, z] that you know very little about. > > > > > > Every word is only and always addressed to 'toombaru'. > > I would like you to make it clearer by > using comonly used terms to refer to oneself > suich as " I " , " me " in place of referring it to > " you " , " ac " , X, Y, Z... > > > Because, when you do that it confuses me and I wonder > are you really insane to claim to know so much about > " me " a person whom you have never even met??? > > Talk about yourself aand please make it CLEAR by > using words like 'I', 'me'. > > > > > > Love, > > > ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please........It is impossible for 'you' to love 'me'. > > > That " Love " is for " me " . > > I just like how it feels INSIDE Me! > > > > > > toombaru > > > when I am where r U? when U r where am I? ....a moment suspended in rapture. Anna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 [...] > > > > Love, > > > > ac. > > > > > > Please........It is impossible for 'you' to love 'me'. > > > > > > That " Love " is for " me " . > > > > I just like how it feels INSIDE Me! I know it is kind of impossible to " give " my " love " to " you " or someone else... Though I do wish sometimes at " you " too could feel the way I feel... in Love... Yet, I know I can not really " give " it to you! And, thus, in love, I know I love because of the way it makes me feel!!! And, now I know it has got nothing to do with you! I love... I love... for my sake... I love... because of the way it feels... In my " love " ... there is no " you " ... [...] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 T: (Now watch the how the mechanical reactions bubble to the surface in an attempt to defend the personal Kingdom-of-Me.) If you are ever going to get out of this mess...... AC: What are you calling a " mess " ? T: it will not be through the introspective attempt to understand and remove 'character defects'. AC: What " mess " you are talking about? " Who " is planning to get out of it? " Who " wants to get out of it? What you find wrong with the thing that you call 'mess' ...that you call it a 'mess'? T cont: It will come only through the understanding of the mechanical reactional devise that calls itself " adithya_comming " . AC: How do " you " know that??? Era: well your' at the Niz club, him and Ramana thaught 'that' AC cont: Have you understood the mechanical reactional devise that calls itself " Toombaru " ??? If yes, can you share your understanding of him with us? And, please if possible, address it to Toombaru and not to some 'you'[ac or x, y, z] that you know very little about. Era: As far as posting in a club we know you both; you and Tommy from your posts AC and your messness is displayed for everyone to see. with love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 [...] > AC cont: Have you understood the >mechanical reactional devise that calls itself " Toombaru " ??? > > If yes, can you share your understanding of him with us? > And, please if possible, > address it to Toombaru and not to some 'you'[ac or x, y, z] that you know very little about. > Era: As far as posting in a club we know you both; you and Tommy from your posts AC and your messness is displayed for everyone to see. Hi Era, the dishonest, contriving queen of lies! Reading my few messages from does not make you more knowledgeable of me than myself. Nor do you have enough honesty, insight , credentials or truthfulness to be able to really talk about it! Therfore, leave talking about myself to me. If you wish to talk, talk about yourself. Leave talking about my life to me cause, I know it much better than you! If you want to show an example, show us how great you have been! Tell me what great things you have accomplished. Tell me how you have accomplished those. Tell me how greatly illuminating your life has been! And, maybe we will learn from your *example* as we do from likes of *example* of Ramana. But, first learn little honsety and truth if you can... Can you? Until then... don't say anything to me. I have zero trust in you. You remain someone who only knows how to *bitch* around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I have never " solved " any > > > > > > " personal " * problems - I have only > > > > > > understood how I created them! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - In mental/verbal fights, it is not > > > > > really the " attack " that hurt me. what > > > > > really hurt me was My Own Defense - the > > > > > idea that 'I had to defend' and the mechanism > > > > > that I used for it! > > > > > > > > > > The mechanism that used to > > > > > defend and 'counter attack' were anger, hate and > > > > > low grade resentment. All of these > > > > > burnt cells inside my body > > > > > irrespective of what I did externally. > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Thoughts that didn't get physically > > > > > > or mentally entertained slowly stopped > > > > > > coming. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Whatever I did... worked towards > > > > > > building a 'habit' of it! > > > > > > > > > > > > - When I was unconscious [which was still > > > > > > most of the times]; habits were > > > > > > what drove me! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>There is no 'you' outside of the mechanical reactions that will > > > ever be able to see what's going on. > > > > > > Is it truer to say that: > > > > > > I(Toombaru) am not aware of any I beyond 'mechanical reactions'? > > > > > > > > > > > > Or, > > > > > > would you rather speak for me (Adithya_Comming) > > > that you almost nothing about??? > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong. > > > > I know absolutely nothing about Adithya_Comming....nor can " I " ever. > > Ok. > > That sounds fair enough to me. > > > > > > > > > >>It IS what's going on. > > > > > > > > > >>(Now watch the how the mechanical reactions bubble to the surface > > > in an attempt to defend the personal Kingdom-of-Me.) > > > > > > I am watching... > > > > > > I don't see much going on At the Moment! > > > > > > > > > The " I " that thinks that it is looking IS whats going on....and in > > responding.........it is defending its imaginary stance. > > That is not my experience, Toomabaru. You are not anything other then your accumulated experience. There is no 'I' outside of that. > > > There are times when I am defending The 'I' is always defending its illusory self. That's what it does. That's what it is. > > There are also times when I am completely Open, Naked, Vulnerable, All > Out in Open with all defenses suspended. The 'I' can never be 'out in the open' anymore then a shadow can be out in the sun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>If you are ever going to get out of this mess...... > > > > > > What are you calling a " mess " ? > > > > > > > > The illusory dream of separation......the 'suffering'......the > 'quiet despiration'. > > I don't see a 'dream of separation', Toombaru! Anything downstream from the statement 'I' is separation (albeit imaginary) of 'I' and 'other'. If there is an 'I' that thinks that it sees......that which it thinks it sees is imagined to be other then it........That is what separation is. > > I can't say I ever have. > > Neither am I looking for some kind of union. There is nothing else that will make you content. There is a realization that 'union' never can occur.......because separation simply never happened. > > > Suffering I can understand and relate to... > > I understand it as 'bitter', harse harmones > flowing inside my body... > > and, that I see just as the part of What Is. > > It is there for some purpose... > and, they operate based on certain laws... > > There in no puropose. Purpose presupposes an entity to whom it could apply......and the existence of separate events and alternative possibilities. > > Some of them I underatand, some I don't... The 'I' understands nothing. It spends its days in a make believe conceptual overlay. > > > Some 'laws' [that govern the flow of these bitter > harmones] I do underatnd... still violate them > sometimes... and, they flow... Paul wondered why he did the things that he did not want to. There is an answer to that. > > Some of these laws I don't even know and only see the impact of > violating them after those harsh harmones are alreday part > of the blood stream. > > In a dispute between hormones and neurons........hormones always win.......LOL > > > > > > > > > > >>it will not be through the introspective attempt to understand and > > > remove 'character defects'. > > > > > > What " mess " you are talking about? > > > > > > " Who " is planning to get out of it? > > > > > > " Who " wants to get out of it? > > > > > > > > > " You' do. > > That is not true. > > Fire burns... > > Water cools... > > Roses smell plaesant... > > Acid smells harsh... > > > This is the part of the " nature " , part of 'what is', > ... I can not expect or hope to get out of it. > > When I touch fire... it burns > I have no burning expectation or wish of getting > out of this law. > > Sometimes I might touch the " fire " because > of ignorance, sometimes because of unawareness... > > but, when I touch... it will burn. > > > I can not get out of the 'system', > I can only be *aware* of how it *works*! > > > > > > All of your ramblings are about releasing the tension of imagined > > isolation. > > > That is not true. > > Some of my " ramblings " are simply about > sharing what I have observed. > > Like I have observed that: when I drink water > it quenches my thirst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you find wrong with the thing that you call 'mess' > > > ...that you call it a 'mess'? > > > > > > > > Relax into the dream...........If you can. > > > > Be happy..........If you can. > > > > Be content..........If you can. > > > > Many times, I am in fact quite content, happy, relaxed... > > There are also times when I am not relaxed, content or happy... > > > I don't expect/wish/want to reach a state where > I am " always " relaxed, content and happy. > > That may never happen and as far as I know > I am fine with it. How do yo feel about dying? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>It will come only through the understanding of the mechanical > > > reactional devise that calls itself " adithya_comming " . > > > > > > How do " you " know that??? > > > > It is known. > > Ok. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you understood the mechanical reactional devise > > > that calls itself " Toombaru " ??? > > > > > > Yes. > > Ok. > > Please share your knowledge of > " the mechanical reactional devise > that calls itself " Toombaru " " with us. > > > > > > > > > > If yes, can you share your understanding of him [Toombaru] with us? > > > > > > No.........You are characters within my personal dream. > > > > I like you just as you are......... > > By " him " above I meant Toombaru not ac. > [i have reworded it to make it clerarer now] > > > > > > > > And, please if possible, > > > address it to Toombaru and not to some > > > 'you'[ac or x, y, z] that you know very little about. > > > > > > Every word is only and always addressed to 'toombaru'. > > I would like you to make it clearer by > using comonly used terms to refer to oneself > suich as " I " , " me " in place of referring it to > " you " , " ac " , X, Y, Z... > > > Because, when you do that it confuses me and I wonder > are you really insane to claim to know so much about > " me " a person whom you have never even met??? > > Talk about yourself aand please make it CLEAR by > using words like 'I', 'me'. > > > > > > Love, > > > ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please........It is impossible for 'you' to love 'me'. > > > That " Love " is for " me " . > > I just like how it feels INSIDE Me! > > > > > > toombaru > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > > > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I have never " solved " any > > > > > > > " personal " * problems - I have only > > > > > > > understood how I created them! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - In mental/verbal fights, it is not > > > > > > really the " attack " that hurt me. what > > > > > > really hurt me was My Own Defense - the > > > > > > idea that 'I had to defend' and the mechanism > > > > > > that I used for it! > > > > > > > > > > > > The mechanism that used to > > > > > > defend and 'counter attack' were anger, hate and > > > > > > low grade resentment. All of these > > > > > > burnt cells inside my body > > > > > > irrespective of what I did externally. > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Thoughts that didn't get physically > > > > > > > or mentally entertained slowly stopped > > > > > > > coming. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Whatever I did... worked towards > > > > > > > building a 'habit' of it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - When I was unconscious [which was still > > > > > > > most of the times]; habits were > > > > > > > what drove me! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>There is no 'you' outside of the mechanical reactions that will > > > > ever be able to see what's going on. > > > > > > > > Is it truer to say that: > > > > > > > > I(Toombaru) am not aware of any I beyond 'mechanical reactions'? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or, > > > > > > > > would you rather speak for me (Adithya_Comming) > > > > that you almost nothing about??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong. > > > > > > I know absolutely nothing about Adithya_Comming....nor can " I " ever. > > > > Ok. > > > > That sounds fair enough to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>It IS what's going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>(Now watch the how the mechanical reactions bubble to the surface > > > > in an attempt to defend the personal Kingdom-of-Me.) > > > > > > > > I am watching... > > > > > > > > I don't see much going on At the Moment! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The " I " that thinks that it is looking IS whats going on....and in > > > responding.........it is defending its imaginary stance. > > > > That is not my experience, Toomabaru. > > > > > > You are not anything other then your accumulated experience. > > There is no 'I' outside of that. > > > > > There are times when I am defending > > > > The 'I' is always defending its illusory self. > That's what it does. > That's what it is. > > > > There are also times when I am completely Open, Naked, Vulnerable, All > > Out in Open with all defenses suspended. > > > > > > The 'I' can never be 'out in the open' anymore then a shadow can be > out in the sun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>If you are ever going to get out of this mess...... > > > > > > > > What are you calling a " mess " ? > > > > > > > > > > > > The illusory dream of separation......the 'suffering'......the > > 'quiet despiration'. > > > > I don't see a 'dream of separation', Toombaru! > > > Anything downstream from the statement 'I' is separation (albeit > imaginary) of 'I' and 'other'. > > If there is an 'I' that thinks that it sees......that which it thinks > it sees is imagined to be other then it........That is what separation is. > > > > > > > > > I can't say I ever have. > > > > Neither am I looking for some kind of union. > There is nothing else that will make you content. > > There is a realization that 'union' never can occur.......because > separation simply never happened. > > > > > > > > > > > Suffering I can understand and relate to... > > > > I understand it as 'bitter', harse harmones > > flowing inside my body... > > > > and, that I see just as the part of What Is. > > > > It is there for some purpose... > > and, they operate based on certain laws... > > > > > > > There in no puropose. > > Purpose presupposes an entity to whom it could apply......and the > existence of separate events and alternative possibilities. > > > > > > Some of them I underatand, some I don't... > > The 'I' understands nothing. > > It spends its days in a make believe conceptual overlay. > > > > > > > > Some 'laws' [that govern the flow of these bitter > > harmones] I do underatnd... still violate them > > sometimes... and, they flow... > > > > > > Paul wondered why he did the things that he did not want to. > > There is an answer to that. > > > > > > > Some of these laws I don't even know and only see the impact of > > violating them after those harsh harmones are alreday part > > of the blood stream. > > > > > > > In a dispute between hormones and neurons........hormones always > win.......LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>it will not be through the introspective attempt to understand > and > > > > remove 'character defects'. > > > > > > > > What " mess " you are talking about? > > > > > > > > " Who " is planning to get out of it? > > > > > > > > " Who " wants to get out of it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > " You' do. > > > > That is not true. > > > > Fire burns... > > > > Water cools... > > > > Roses smell plaesant... > > > > Acid smells harsh... > > > > This is the part of the " nature " , part of 'what is', > > ... I can not expect or hope to get out of it. > > > > When I touch fire... it burns > > I have no burning expectation or wish of getting > > out of this law. > > > > Sometimes I might touch the " fire " because > > of ignorance, sometimes because of unawareness... > > > > but, when I touch... it will burn. > > > > > > I can not get out of the 'system', > > I can only be *aware* of how it *works*! > > > > > > > > > > All of your ramblings are about releasing the tension of imagined > > > isolation. > > > > > > That is not true. > > > > Some of my " ramblings " are simply about > > sharing what I have observed. > > > > Like I have observed that: when I drink water > > it quenches my thirst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you find wrong with the thing that you call 'mess' > > > > ...that you call it a 'mess'? > > > > > > > > > > > > Relax into the dream...........If you can. > > > > > > Be happy..........If you can. > > > > > > Be content..........If you can. > > > > > > > Many times, I am in fact quite content, happy, relaxed... > > > > There are also times when I am not relaxed, content or happy... > > > > > > I don't expect/wish/want to reach a state where > > I am " always " relaxed, content and happy. > > > > That may never happen and as far as I know > > I am fine with it. > > > > > > How do yo feel about dying? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>It will come only through the understanding of the mechanical > > > > reactional devise that calls itself " adithya_comming " . > > > > > > > > How do " you " know that??? > > > > > > It is known. > > > > Ok. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you understood the mechanical reactional devise > > > > that calls itself " Toombaru " ??? > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > Ok. > > > > Please share your knowledge of > > " the mechanical reactional devise > > that calls itself " Toombaru " " with us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If yes, can you share your understanding of him [Toombaru] with us? > > > > > > > > > No.........You are characters within my personal dream. > > > > > > I like you just as you are......... > > > > By " him " above I meant Toombaru not ac. > > [i have reworded it to make it clerarer now] > > > > > > > > > > > > And, please if possible, > > > > address it to Toombaru and not to some > > > > 'you'[ac or x, y, z] that you know very little about. > > > > > > > > > Every word is only and always addressed to 'toombaru'. > > > > I would like you to make it clearer by > > using comonly used terms to refer to oneself > > suich as " I " , " me " in place of referring it to > > " you " , " ac " , X, Y, Z... > > > > > > Because, when you do that it confuses me and I wonder > > are you really insane to claim to know so much about > > " me " a person whom you have never even met??? > > > > Talk about yourself aand please make it CLEAR by > > using words like 'I', 'me'. > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please........It is impossible for 'you' to love 'me'. > > > > > > That " Love " is for " me " . > > > > I just like how it feels INSIDE Me! > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > " The 'I' understands nothing. It spends its days in a make believe conceptual overlay. " -With this awarness its hard to believe that you're waisting your time on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 > > -With this awarness its hard to believe that you're waisting your > time on this forum. You know.........I told the same thing to Ramana. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > -With this awarness its hard to believe that you're waisting your > > time on this forum. > > > > > You know.........I told the same thing to Ramana. > > > > toombaru > I had finally arrived at Arunachala.........the place that I had read about for so many years. I was ushered into a large room that had a few old chairs next to the South wall. Ramana sat in a shaft of light that had penetrated the ceiling...... with his back to the door........he remained in satori as I came around to face him. " So " ............I said, " Why do you waste your valuable time talking to all these selfish bastards who hang around seeking nothing but their own personal enlightenment?..........With a presence like yours........I'll bet you could have any girl you wanted. " He did not respond. I started the one-sided discourse all over: So.....Ramana.....Why do you............. He opened his eyes.........and stared into me........ He smiled......the way he does........like a little boy........ and shrugged his shoulders. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 [...] > > > The " I " that thinks that it is looking IS whats going on....and in > > > responding.........it is defending its imaginary stance. > > > > That is not my experience, Toomabaru. > > > You are not anything other then your accumulated experience. Speak for yourself. There is no " me " in what I expereince. All the experiences happen 'inside' me. > > There is no 'I' outside of that. It is other way around... There is no expereince that is outside me! > > > > > > There are times when I am defending > > The 'I' is always defending its illusory self. > That's what it does. > That's what it is. > Speak for yourself! Say: Toombaru is always defending its illusory self. That's what Toombaru does. That's what Toombaru is. And, I might believe you! Don't claim to know me better than myself! You don't. So, quit pretending! [However, if wrote the above only referring to Toombaru... it is Fine. But, it is not really clear by reading the context.] > > > > There are also times when I am completely Open, Naked, Vulnerable, All > > Out in Open with all defenses suspended. > > > The 'I' can never be 'out in the open' > anymore then a shadow can be > out in the sun. Speak for yourself! Say: I [Toombaru] can never be out in the open. I [Toombaru] am always defending myself! Don't try projecting your stories onto me. You don't know me. Stick with it and try being 'honest' and Clear about it for a change. I don't like discussing anything with people who can not stick to 'what they really know' and keep projecting their 'personal stories onto people they know nothing about. Please, quit doing that... if you can. Can you? Again if wrote the above only referring to Toombaru... it is Fine. But, it is not really clear by reading the context. Make it clear and explicit next time. For example don't The 'I'... just simple I might make it claer that you are talking about Toombaru. If you really want to be 'honest' about it, you can find a way. > > > > > > > > >>If you are ever going to get out of this mess...... > > > > > > > > What are you calling a " mess " ? > > > > > > The illusory dream of separation......the 'suffering'......the > > 'quiet despiration'. > > > > I don't see a 'dream of separation', Toombaru! > > > Anything downstream from the statement 'I' is separation (albeit imaginary) of 'I' and 'other'. There is no 'other' in... I. I is Complete. I is Whole. 'Other' is created only in [some of] what I thinks. > > If there is an 'I' that thinks that it sees...... I sees... I doesn't need to 'think' that it sees! > that which it thinks it sees is imagined to be other then it .........That is what separation is. Yes, I can think many things... I has capacity to think many things. And, I don't see any problem is it! If you have a problem with it, please try to deal with it without projecting it onto me. Can you? > > > > > I can't say I ever have. > > > > Neither am I looking for some kind of union. > > > There is nothing else that will make you content. 'Discontentment' is nothing more than a thought. [This] Thought can appaer and dissapear on its own. It can also dissapear when I doesn't think or when I thinks 'something else'! It requires no 'uinion' to happen for this thought to dissapear. It dissapear on its own many, many times during the day and... night! > > There is a realization that 'union' never can occur ........because separation simply never happened. Both 'union' and 'separation' are simply " thoughts " . They can appear and disappear at anytime and that has nothing to with realization. In order to 'not think' I don't need to undersatnd anything about... 'union' or 'separtion'. That 'understanding' of 'union' and 'separation' is simply... " more thoughts " which too will dissapear some time... like all other thoughts! There is no 'permanent' thought... including the 'thought' of suffering, separtion... including 'thought' of 'union', 'knowledge' or 'realization'! > > > > Suffering I can understand and relate to... > > > > I understand it as 'bitter', harse harmones > > flowing inside my body... > > > > and, that I see just as the part of What Is. > > > > It is there for some purpose... > > and, they operate based on certain laws... > > There in no puropose. That is what you understood??? Purpose of brain is to be able to think... that is one way of 'looking' at it! Similarilly purpose of many harmones is to keep body alert, ready for fight or flight and out of comfort and sleep. That is one way of 'looking' at it. Don't try to present your view as the universal truth. It is not. In fact, sometimes it is rather uninformed and ignorant. > > Purpose presupposes an entity to whom it could apply And, there are indeed trillions of 'entities'... Stop being a Balsekar 'copy cat'! > ......and the > existence of separate events and alternative possibilities. > > > > > > > Some of them I underatand, some I don't... > > > The 'I' understands nothing. I am talking about simple 'laws' that can be 'observed', 'learnt', 'predicated' and 'used'. Humans do it all the time. That is what is called 'science'. > > It spends its days in a make believe conceptual overlay. > > > > > Some 'laws' [that govern the flow of these bitter > > harmones] I do underatnd... still violate them > > sometimes... and, they flow... > > Paul wondered why he did the things that he did not want to. > > There is an answer to that. Paul might know it [or not]. I have never thought on it [to know it or not]. > > > > > Some of these laws I don't even know and only see the impact of > > violating them after those harsh harmones are alreday part > > of the blood stream. > > > > In a dispute between hormones and neurons........hormones always > win.......LOL Not true. Harmones don't " always " win! I have seen 'reason' and 'logic' win many, many times! My harmones are many times ready to have intercourse with next available female... I have rarely acted on it and sex in those scenario have rarely happend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>it will not be through the introspective attempt to understand > and > > > > remove 'character defects'. > > > > > > > > What " mess " you are talking about? > > > > > > > > " Who " is planning to get out of it? > > > > > > > > " Who " wants to get out of it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > " You' do. > > > > That is not true. > > > > Fire burns... > > > > Water cools... > > > > Roses smell plaesant... > > > > Acid smells harsh... > > > > > > > > > This is the part of the " nature " , part of 'what is', > > ... I can not expect or hope to get out of it. > > > > When I touch fire... it burns > > I have no burning expectation or wish of getting > > out of this law. > > > > Sometimes I might touch the " fire " because > > of ignorance, sometimes because of unawareness... > > > > but, when I touch... it will burn. > > > > > > I can not get out of the 'system', > > I can only be *aware* of how it *works*! > > > > > > > > > > All of your ramblings are about releasing the tension of imagined > > > isolation. > > > > > > That is not true. > > > > Some of my " ramblings " are simply about > > sharing what I have observed. > > > > Like I have observed that: when I drink water > > it quenches my thirst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you find wrong with the thing that you call 'mess' > > > > ...that you call it a 'mess'? > > > > > > > > > > > > Relax into the dream...........If you can. > > > > > > Be happy..........If you can. > > > > > > Be content..........If you can. > > > > > > > Many times, I am in fact quite content, happy, relaxed... > > > > There are also times when I am not relaxed, content or happy... > > > > > > I don't expect/wish/want to reach a state where > > I am " always " relaxed, content and happy. > > > > That may never happen and as far as I know > > I am fine with it. > > How do yo feel about dying? What 'dying' you are talking about? If you are talking about death of this body .... how can I have any feeling about it? I don't know how it 'feels'. Hi Toombaru: If you want to converse with me, plaese try expressing yourself 'honestly', clearly and explicitly. Please don't try to project your experiences onto me. Please don't try to make you current 'partial' [and sometimes planly wrong] understanding as Universal Truth. Please talk... when you are talking; avoid making it sound like a 'sermon' from Mount Everest. And, please don't act like a Balsekar 'copy cat' and plaese don't give me all the Balsekar style 'garbage'. I have no interest in them. But, real question is... Can you? Love, ac. Be Honest! And, no 'Sermon' Please! Don't tell me 'how it is'. Tell me 'what you think' and tell me 'why' you think this way. Then we can 'converse'. Else, you are wasting my time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Richard " <richarkar wrote: > > > I think it will be more " truthful " if addressed > > what you wrote to 'yourself' [Toombaru] than someone > > else. Because, if you are like " me " , you are the > > Only one that you really know about... > > In ancient China, two monks were walking by a pond. As they looked in > it one of them said, " Look at that fish, swimming around without a > care in this world " . The second monk said, " How do you know what the > fish feels? You are not the fish " . The first monk replied, How do you > know what I know? You are not me. " > Luckily, the " fish " could not speak. else, she might hav said: Sir, what you say is not true. and, please don't pretend to know me better than myself. Let me speak for myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 [...] > > > The " I " that thinks that it is looking IS whats going on....and in > > > responding.........it is defending its imaginary stance. > > > > That is not my experience, Toomabaru. > > > You are not anything other then your accumulated experience. Speak for yourself. There is no " me " in what I expereince. All the experiences happen 'inside' me. > > There is no 'I' outside of that. It is other way around... There is no expereince that is outside me! > > > > > > There are times when I am defending > > The 'I' is always defending its illusory self. > That's what it does. > That's what it is. > Speak for yourself! Say: Toombaru is always defending its illusory self. That's what Toombaru does. That's what Toombaru is. And, I might believe you! Don't claim to know me better than myself! You don't. So, quit pretending! [However, if wrote the above only referring to Toombaru... it is Fine. But, it is not really clear by reading the context.] > > > > There are also times when I am completely Open, Naked, Vulnerable, All > > Out in Open with all defenses suspended. > > > The 'I' can never be 'out in the open' > anymore then a shadow can be > out in the sun. Speak for yourself! Say: I [Toombaru] can never be out in the open. I [Toombaru] am always defending myself! Don't try projecting your stories onto me. You don't know me. Stick with it and try being 'honest' and Clear about it for a change. I don't like discussing anything with people who can not stick to 'what they really know' and keep projecting their 'personal stories onto people they know nothing about. Please, quit doing that... if you can. Can you? Again if wrote the above only referring to Toombaru... it is Fine. But, it is not really clear by reading the context. Make it clear and explicit next time. For example don't The 'I'... just simple I might make it claer that you are talking about Toombaru. If you really want to be 'honest' about it, you can find a way. > > > > > > > > >>If you are ever going to get out of this mess...... > > > > > > > > What are you calling a " mess " ? > > > > > > The illusory dream of separation......the 'suffering'......the > > 'quiet despiration'. > > > > I don't see a 'dream of separation', Toombaru! > > > Anything downstream from the statement 'I' is separation (albeit imaginary) of 'I' and 'other'. There is no 'other' in... I. I is Complete. I is Whole. 'Other' is created only in [some of] what I thinks. > > If there is an 'I' that thinks that it sees...... I sees... I doesn't need to 'think' that it sees! > that which it thinks it sees is imagined to be other then it .........That is what separation is. Yes, I can think many things... I has capacity to think many things. And, I don't see any problem is it! If you have a problem with it, please try to deal with it without projecting it onto me. Can you? > > > > > I can't say I ever have. > > > > Neither am I looking for some kind of union. > > > There is nothing else that will make you content. 'Discontentment' is nothing more than a thought. [This] Thought can appaer and dissapear on its own. It can also dissapear when I doesn't think or when I thinks 'something else'! It requires no 'uinion' to happen for this thought to dissapear. It dissapear on its own many, many times during the day and... night! > > There is a realization that 'union' never can occur ........because separation simply never happened. Both 'union' and 'separation' are simply " thoughts " . They can appear and disappear at anytime and that has nothing to with realization. In order to 'not think' I don't need to undersatnd anything about... 'union' or 'separtion'. That 'understanding' of 'union' and 'separation' is simply... " more thoughts " which too will dissapear some time... like all other thoughts! There is no 'permanent' thought... including the 'thought' of suffering, separtion... including 'thought' of 'union', 'knowledge' or 'realization'! > > > > Suffering I can understand and relate to... > > > > I understand it as 'bitter', harse harmones > > flowing inside my body... > > > > and, that I see just as the part of What Is. > > > > It is there for some purpose... > > and, they operate based on certain laws... > > There in no puropose. That is what you understood??? Purpose of brain is to be able to think... that is one way of 'looking' at it! Similarilly purpose of many harmones is to keep body alert, ready for fight or flight and out of comfort and sleep. That is one way of 'looking' at it. Don't try to present your view as the universal truth. It is not. In fact, sometimes it is rather uninformed and ignorant. > > Purpose presupposes an entity to whom it could apply And, there are indeed trillions of 'entities'... Stop being a Balsekar 'copy cat'! > ......and the > existence of separate events and alternative possibilities. > > > > > > > Some of them I underatand, some I don't... > > > The 'I' understands nothing. I am talking about simple 'laws' that can be 'observed', 'learnt', 'predicated' and 'used'. Humans do it all the time. That is what is called 'science'. > > It spends its days in a make believe conceptual overlay. > > > > > Some 'laws' [that govern the flow of these bitter > > harmones] I do underatnd... still violate them > > sometimes... and, they flow... > > Paul wondered why he did the things that he did not want to. > > There is an answer to that. Paul might know it [or not]. I have never thought on it [to know it or not]. > > > > > Some of these laws I don't even know and only see the impact of > > violating them after those harsh harmones are alreday part > > of the blood stream. > > > > In a dispute between hormones and neurons........hormones always > win.......LOL Not true. Harmones don't " always " win! I have seen 'reason' and 'logic' win many, many times! My harmones are many times ready to have intercourse with next available female... I have rarely acted on it and sex in those scenario have rarely happend. [...] > > How do yo feel about dying? What 'dying' you are talking about? If you are talking about death of this body .... how can I have any feeling about it? I don't know how it 'feels'. PS --- Hi Toombaru: If you want to converse with me, plaese try expressing yourself 'honestly', clearly and explicitly. Please don't try to project your experiences onto me. Please don't try to make you current 'partial' [and sometimes planly wrong] understanding as Universal Truth. Please talk... when you are talking; avoid making it sound like a 'sermon' from Mount Everest. And, please don't act like a Balsekar 'copy cat' and plaese don't give me all the Balsekar style 'garbage'. I have no interest in them. But, real question is... Can you? Love, ac. Be Honest! And, no 'Sermon' Please! Don't tell me 'how it is'. Tell me 'what you think' and tell me 'why' you think this way. Then we can 'converse'. Else, you are wasting my time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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