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Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming "

<adithya_comming wrote:

>

> [...]

>

> > > > The " I " that thinks that it is looking IS whats going on....and in

> > > > responding.........it is defending its imaginary stance.

> > >

> > > That is not my experience, Toomabaru.

> >

> >

> > You are not anything other then your accumulated experience.

>

> Speak for yourself.

>

>

> There is no " me " in what I expereince.

>

> All the experiences happen 'inside' me.

>

>

> >

> > There is no 'I' outside of that.

>

> It is other way around...

>

> There is no expereince that is outside me!

>

>

> > >

> > >

> > > There are times when I am defending

> >

>

> > The 'I' is always defending its illusory self.

> > That's what it does.

> > That's what it is.

> >

>

> Speak for yourself!

>

> Say:

>

>

> Toombaru is always defending its illusory self.

> That's what Toombaru does.

> That's what Toombaru is.

>

> And, I might believe you!

>

>

> Don't claim to know me better than myself!

>

> You don't. So, quit pretending!

>

>

> [However, if wrote the above only referring

> to Toombaru... it is Fine. But, it is not

> really clear by reading the context.]

>

>

> > >

> > > There are also times when I am

> completely Open, Naked, Vulnerable, All

> > > Out in Open with all defenses suspended.

> >

> >

> > The 'I' can never be 'out in the open'

> > anymore then a shadow can be

> > out in the sun.

>

> Speak for yourself!

>

> Say:

>

> I [Toombaru] can never be out in the open.

> I [Toombaru] am always defending myself!

>

>

> Don't try projecting your stories onto me.

>

> You don't know me.

>

> Stick with it and try being 'honest'

> and Clear about it for a change.

>

> I don't like discussing anything with

> people who can not stick to 'what they really know'

> and keep projecting their 'personal stories

> onto people they know nothing about.

>

> Please, quit doing that... if you can.

>

> Can you?

>

>

> Again if wrote the above only referring

> to Toombaru... it is Fine. But, it is not

> really clear by reading the context.

> Make it clear and explicit next time.

>

> For example don't The 'I'... just

> simple I might make it claer that you

> are talking about Toombaru. If you really

> want to be 'honest' about it, you can

> find a way.

>

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > >>If you are ever going to get out of this mess......

> > > > >

> > > > > What are you calling a " mess " ?

> > > >

> > > > The illusory dream of separation......the 'suffering'......the

> > > 'quiet despiration'.

> > >

> > > I don't see a 'dream of separation', Toombaru!

> >

> >

> > Anything downstream from the statement 'I'

> is separation (albeit

> imaginary) of 'I' and 'other'.

>

>

>

> There is no 'other' in... I.

>

> I is Complete.

>

> I is Whole.

>

>

> 'Other' is created only in [some of] what I thinks.

>

>

>

> >

> > If there is an 'I' that thinks that

> it sees......

>

> I sees...

>

>

> I doesn't need to 'think' that it sees!

>

>

> > that which it thinks

> it sees is imagined to be other then it

> ........That is what separation is.

>

>

> Yes, I can think many things...

>

> I has capacity to think many things.

>

> And, I don't see any problem is it!

>

>

> If you have a problem with it,

> please try to deal with it without projecting

> it onto me.

>

> Can you?

>

>

>

> >

> > >

> > > I can't say I ever have.

> > >

> > > Neither am I looking for some kind of union.

> >

> >

> > There is nothing else that will make you content.

>

> 'Discontentment' is nothing more than a thought.

>

> [This] Thought can appaer and dissapear on its own.

> It can also dissapear when I doesn't think or when

> I thinks 'something else'!

>

> It requires no 'uinion' to happen for this thought

> to dissapear. It dissapear on its own many, many

> times during the day and... night!

>

>

> >

> > There is a realization that 'union' never can occur

> .......because separation simply never happened.

>

>

> Both 'union' and 'separation' are simply " thoughts " .

> They can appear and disappear at anytime and that

> has nothing to with realization.

>

> In order to 'not think' I don't need to undersatnd

> anything about... 'union' or 'separtion'.

>

> That 'understanding' of 'union' and 'separation'

> is simply... " more thoughts " which too will

> dissapear some time... like all other thoughts!

>

> There is no 'permanent' thought...

> including the 'thought' of suffering, separtion...

> including 'thought' of 'union', 'knowledge' or 'realization'!

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Suffering I can understand and relate to...

> > >

> > > I understand it as 'bitter', harse harmones

> > > flowing inside my body...

> > >

> > > and, that I see just as the part of What Is.

> > >

> > > It is there for some purpose...

> > > and, they operate based on certain laws...

> >

> > There in no puropose.

>

> That is what you understood???

>

> Purpose of brain is to be able to think...

> that is one way of 'looking' at it!

>

> Similarilly purpose of many harmones

> is to keep body alert, ready for fight

> or flight and out of comfort and sleep.

>

> That is one way of 'looking' at it.

>

>

> Don't try to present your view as the universal

> truth.

>

> It is not.

>

> In fact, sometimes it is rather uninformed and ignorant.

>

>

> >

> > Purpose presupposes an entity to whom it could apply

>

> And, there are indeed trillions of 'entities'...

>

>

> Stop being a Balsekar 'copy cat'!

>

>

>

> > ......and the

> > existence of separate events and alternative possibilities.

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Some of them I underatand, some I don't...

> >

> >

> > The 'I' understands nothing.

>

>

> I am talking about simple 'laws'

> that can be 'observed', 'learnt',

> 'predicated' and 'used'.

>

> Humans do it all the time.

> That is what is called 'science'.

>

>

>

> >

> > It spends its days in a make believe conceptual overlay.

> >

> > >

> > > Some 'laws' [that govern the flow of these bitter

> > > harmones] I do underatnd... still violate them

> > > sometimes... and, they flow...

> >

> > Paul wondered why he did the things that he did not want to.

> >

> > There is an answer to that.

>

> Paul might know it [or not].

> I have never thought on it

> [to know it or not].

>

>

> >

> > >

> > > Some of these laws I don't even know and only see the impact of

> > > violating them after those harsh harmones are alreday part

> > > of the blood stream.

> > >

> >

> > In a dispute between hormones and neurons........hormones always

> > win.......LOL

>

> Not true. Harmones don't " always " win!

>

>

> I have seen 'reason' and 'logic' win

> many, many times!

>

> My harmones are many times ready to

> have intercourse with next available

> female...

>

> I have rarely acted on it and sex in those

> scenario have rarely happend.

>

>

>

> > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >>it will not be through the introspective attempt to understand

> > and

> > > > > remove 'character defects'.

> > > > >

> > > > > What " mess " you are talking about?

> > > > >

> > > > > " Who " is planning to get out of it?

> > > > >

> > > > > " Who " wants to get out of it?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > " You' do.

> > >

> > > That is not true.

> > >

> > > Fire burns...

> > >

> > > Water cools...

> > >

> > > Roses smell plaesant...

> > >

> > > Acid smells harsh...

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > This is the part of the " nature " , part of 'what is',

> > > ... I can not expect or hope to get out of it.

> > >

> > > When I touch fire... it burns

> > > I have no burning expectation or wish of getting

> > > out of this law.

> > >

> > > Sometimes I might touch the " fire " because

> > > of ignorance, sometimes because of unawareness...

> > >

> > > but, when I touch... it will burn.

> > >

> > >

> > > I can not get out of the 'system',

> > > I can only be *aware* of how it *works*!

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > All of your ramblings are about releasing the tension of imagined

> > > > isolation.

> > >

> > >

> > > That is not true.

> > >

> > > Some of my " ramblings " are simply about

> > > sharing what I have observed.

> > >

> > > Like I have observed that: when I drink water

> > > it quenches my thirst.

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > What you find wrong with the thing that you call 'mess'

> > > > > ...that you call it a 'mess'?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Relax into the dream...........If you can.

> > > >

> > > > Be happy..........If you can.

> > > >

> > > > Be content..........If you can.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Many times, I am in fact quite content, happy, relaxed...

> > >

> > > There are also times when I am not relaxed, content or happy...

> > >

> > >

> > > I don't expect/wish/want to reach a state where

> > > I am " always " relaxed, content and happy.

> > >

> > > That may never happen and as far as I know

> > > I am fine with it.

> >

> > How do yo feel about dying?

>

> What 'dying' you are talking about?

> If you are talking about death of this body

> ... how can I have any feeling about it?

>

> I don't know how it 'feels'.

>

>

>

> Hi Toombaru:

>

> If you want to converse with me,

> plaese try expressing yourself

> 'honestly', clearly and explicitly.

>

> Please don't try to project your

> experiences onto me.

>

>

> Please don't try to make you

> current 'partial' [and sometimes

> planly wrong] understanding as

> Universal Truth.

>

> Please talk... when you are talking;

> avoid making it sound like a 'sermon'

> from Mount Everest.

>

> And, please don't act like a Balsekar

> 'copy cat' and plaese don't give me

> all the Balsekar style 'garbage'.

>

> I have no interest in them.

>

>

> But, real question is...

>

> Can you?

>

>

>

> Love,

> ac.

>

>

> Be Honest!

>

> And, no 'Sermon' Please!

>

>

>

> Don't tell me 'how it is'.

>

>

> Tell me 'what you think' and tell me

> 'why' you think this way.

>

> Then we can 'converse'.

> Else, you are wasting my time!

>

 

 

 

 

You own time?

 

 

toombaru

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Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming "

<adithya_comming wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Richard " <richarkar@> wrote:

> >

> > > I think it will be more " truthful " if addressed

> > > what you wrote to 'yourself' [Toombaru] than someone

> > > else. Because, if you are like " me " , you are the

> > > Only one that you really know about...

> >

> > In ancient China, two monks were walking by a pond. As they looked in

> > it one of them said, " Look at that fish, swimming around without a

> > care in this world " . The second monk said, " How do you know what the

> > fish feels? You are not the fish " . The first monk replied, How do you

> > know what I know? You are not me. "

> >

>

> Luckily, the " fish " could not speak.

> else, she might hav said:

>

> Sir, what you say is not true.

> and, please don't pretend to

> know me better than myself.

>

> Let me speak for myself!

>

 

 

 

Now........if you can just find it.

 

 

 

toombaru

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Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming "

> <adithya_comming@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Richard " <richarkar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > I think it will be more " truthful " if addressed

> > > > what you wrote to 'yourself' [Toombaru] than someone

> > > > else. Because, if you are like " me " , you are the

> > > > Only one that you really know about...

> > >

> > > In ancient China, two monks were walking by a pond. As they

looked in

> > > it one of them said, " Look at that fish, swimming around without a

> > > care in this world " . The second monk said, " How do you know what

the

> > > fish feels? You are not the fish " . The first monk replied, How

do you

> > > know what I know? You are not me. "

> > >

> >

> > Luckily, the " fish " could not speak.

> > else, she might hav said:

> >

> > Sir, what you say is not true.

> > and, please don't pretend to

> > know me better than myself.

> >

> > Let me speak for myself!

> >

>

>

>

> Now........if you can just find it.

 

 

If " ever " 'finding me' was necessary,

laeve it to " me " sir!

 

 

 

My " route " to " me " is

much more direct and shorter than

any " route " 'you' can take to 'find me'.

 

 

 

 

>

> toombaru

>

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Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming "

<adithya_comming wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming "

> > <adithya_comming@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " Richard " <richarkar@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > I think it will be more " truthful " if addressed

> > > > > what you wrote to 'yourself' [Toombaru] than someone

> > > > > else. Because, if you are like " me " , you are the

> > > > > Only one that you really know about...

> > > >

> > > > In ancient China, two monks were walking by a pond. As they

> looked in

> > > > it one of them said, " Look at that fish, swimming around

without a

> > > > care in this world " . The second monk said, " How do you know what

> the

> > > > fish feels? You are not the fish " . The first monk replied, How

> do you

> > > > know what I know? You are not me. "

> > > >

> > >

> > > Luckily, the " fish " could not speak.

> > > else, she might hav said:

> > >

> > > Sir, what you say is not true.

> > > and, please don't pretend to

> > > know me better than myself.

> > >

> > > Let me speak for myself!

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > Now........if you can just find it.

>

>

> If " ever " 'finding me' was necessary,

> laeve it to " me " sir!

>

>

>

> My " route " to " me " is

> much more direct and shorter than

> any " route " 'you' can take to 'find me'.

>

>

>

>

> >

> > toombaru

> >

>

 

 

 

 

Are you saying that this 'me' thing can find itself?

 

 

 

toombaru

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Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming "

> <adithya_comming@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming "

> > > <adithya_comming@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " Richard " <richarkar@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > I think it will be more " truthful " if addressed

> > > > > > what you wrote to 'yourself' [Toombaru] than someone

> > > > > > else. Because, if you are like " me " , you are the

> > > > > > Only one that you really know about...

> > > > >

> > > > > In ancient China, two monks were walking by a pond. As they

> > looked in

> > > > > it one of them said, " Look at that fish, swimming around

> without a

> > > > > care in this world " . The second monk said, " How do you know what

> > the

> > > > > fish feels? You are not the fish " . The first monk replied, How

> > do you

> > > > > know what I know? You are not me. "

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Luckily, the " fish " could not speak.

> > > > else, she might hav said:

> > > >

> > > > Sir, what you say is not true.

> > > > and, please don't pretend to

> > > > know me better than myself.

> > > >

> > > > Let me speak for myself!

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Now........if you can just find it.

> >

> >

> > If " ever " 'finding me' was necessary,

> > laeve it to " me " sir!

> >

> >

> >

> > My " route " to " me " is

> > much more direct and shorter than

> > any " route " 'you' can take to 'find me'.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> Are you saying that this 'me' thing can find itself?

 

 

I am saying

that if 'fining me' became ever " necessary "

I have more 'direct' and 'shorther' route

to attempt to 'find me' than 'you'.

 

Therefore, I am asking you to

leave 'finding me' to me.

 

I don't find a quest to 'find me'

necessary or useful.

 

Neither I feel it is 'lost'.

 

 

 

Love,

ac.

 

 

>

> toombaru

>

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