Guest guest Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Nisargadatta...How deluded you are! January 29, 1981 M: You must give up identity with the body. Abidance in that knowledge " I Am " which does not identify with the body-mind is the spiritual light. Self-love and " I Am " without words are the same. The sicknesses may come and go, but the Self-love does not go. Q: The realization of Self does not come. M: Who says that? Without the knowingness who could say anything? Q: Knowingness must exist because there is something to be known. M: You have come here with the idea that you are full of knowledge, full of wisdom; so what is you idea of knowledge? You are very seasoned, having roamed about in all corner of the world. Q: I know that I am not full of knowledge. M: Why do you tell a lie? Q: The books speak of that Ultimate joy and fulfillment which is the result of knowledge. M: You are not going to meet it because you are it. Would you go out to meet your Self? Q: No I come here. M: Before you know you were, did you have knowledge or ignorance? In the absence of consciousness, who could say " I Am " ? {Long silence}. You have all gone into quietude. Q: Every thought, every feeling in consciousness, is changing all the time. I cannot be the changing, I am the changeless consciousness which enables thoughts to pass. That is how I understand it. Is that right? M: How deluded you are! Q: What I am trying to do is to stop identification with the thoughts and feelings and not be possessed by them, as I use them as pointers to the highest consciousness. M: Then why do you talk? The pointers of your feelings and your thoughts are your Self and that is consciousness, so consciousness and your Self are one. Q: I want to get away from the pain. M: The mind is deluding you is cheating you. Q: So I am the pain and I should be happy to be the pain? M: That is because you are embracing your body as your Self. Q: Exactly. That is why I am using a trick to escape that. M: Very good. In the later stages this consciousness is itself the pain. Until you recognize and completely identify yourself with the knowledge " I AM " you will identify with the body. That knowledge " I Am " , you do not know her. Some others here have no pride that they are knowledgeable; you alone are claiming all the knowledge and pride. Now, how many more days are you going to visit this place? Q: Until the 7th. M: You have been given answers to your questions. Why should you return? Q: Then these others don't not have the knowledge, and that's why they can come back? M: You speak for yourself! Other people may be more knowledgeable than you, why do you equate them with you? You have committed a grave offense by equating these people with the level of your wisdom. Take care of yourself, don't worry about others. How dare you bother about others when you do not fully know yourself? Q: There is some link, which binds us together. M: Never criticize others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 i agree witchu, era molnar. who is it that is supposed to give up the body? is there a separate self that must " give up " something in order to achieve liberation, as niz suggests? there is no separate self to " give up " anything or to get anything. there is only the sound of the refrigerator humming, a car passing in the night, the click clack of the keyboard as synapses fire in the void, a chopper whining in the distance, an itch & a gurgle, water pipes hissing, etc. but, no individual self, except as a fluctuating fictional character in some nebulous dream-world in a fantasy long long ago. all is one. peace dc Nisargadatta , " Era Molnar " <n0ndual wrote: > > > Nisargadatta...How deluded you are! > > January 29, 1981 > > M: You must give up identity with the body. Abidance in that knowledge " I Am " which does not identify with the body-mind is the spiritual light. Self-love and " I Am " without words are the same. The sicknesses may come and go, but the Self-love does not go. > > Q: The realization of Self does not come. > > M: Who says that? Without the knowingness who could say anything? > > Q: Knowingness must exist because there is something to be known. > > M: You have come here with the idea that you are full of knowledge, full of wisdom; so what is you idea of knowledge? You are very seasoned, having roamed about in all corner of the world. > > Q: I know that I am not full of knowledge. > > M: Why do you tell a lie? > > Q: The books speak of that Ultimate joy and fulfillment which is the result of knowledge. > > M: You are not going to meet it because you are it. Would you go out to meet your Self? > > Q: No I come here. > > M: Before you know you were, did you have knowledge or ignorance? In the absence of consciousness, who could say " I Am " ? {Long silence}. You have all gone into quietude. > > Q: Every thought, every feeling in consciousness, is changing all the time. I cannot be the changing, I am the changeless consciousness which enables thoughts to pass. That is how I understand it. Is that right? > > M: How deluded you are! > > Q: What I am trying to do is to stop identification with the thoughts and feelings and not be possessed by them, as I use them as pointers to the highest consciousness. > > M: Then why do you talk? The pointers of your feelings and your thoughts are your Self and that is consciousness, so consciousness and your Self are one. > > Q: I want to get away from the pain. > > M: The mind is deluding you is cheating you. > > Q: So I am the pain and I should be happy to be the pain? > > M: That is because you are embracing your body as your Self. > > Q: Exactly. That is why I am using a trick to escape that. > > M: Very good. In the later stages this consciousness is itself the pain. Until you recognize and completely identify yourself with the knowledge " I AM " you will identify with the body. That knowledge " I Am " , you do not know her. Some others here have no pride that they are knowledgeable; you alone are claiming all the knowledge and pride. Now, how many more days are you going to visit this place? > > Q: Until the 7th. > > M: You have been given answers to your questions. Why should you return? > > Q: Then these others don't not have the knowledge, and that's why they can come back? > > M: You speak for yourself! Other people may be more knowledgeable than you, why do you equate them with you? You have committed a grave offense by equating these people with the level of your wisdom. Take care of yourself, don't worry about others. How dare you bother about others when you do not fully know yourself? > > Q: There is some link, which binds us together. > > M: Never criticize others. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 > i agree witchu, era molnar. who is it that is supposed to give up the > body? Danny, giving up the body, or giving up indentification with the body is not the same. > is there a separate self that must " give up " something in order > to achieve liberation, as niz suggests? > > there is no separate self to " give up " anything or to get anything. > there is only the sound of the refrigerator humming, a car passing in > the night, the click clack of the keyboard as synapses fire in the > void, a chopper whining in the distance, an itch & a gurgle, water > pipes hissing, etc. but, no individual self, except as a fluctuating > fictional character in some nebulous dream-world in a fantasy long > long ago. all is one. peace > > dc " Era Molnar " <n0ndual@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta...How deluded you are! > > > > January 29, 1981 > > > > M: You must give up identity with the body. Abidance in that > knowledge " I Am " which does not identify with the body-mind is the > spiritual light. Self-love and " I Am " without words are the same. > The sicknesses may come and go, but the Self-love does not go. > > > > Q: The realization of Self does not come. > > > > M: Who says that? Without the knowingness who could say anything? > > > > Q: Knowingness must exist because there is something to be known. > > > > M: You have come here with the idea that you are full of > knowledge, full of wisdom; so what is you idea of knowledge? You are > very seasoned, having roamed about in all corner of the world. > > > > Q: I know that I am not full of knowledge. > > > > M: Why do you tell a lie? > > > > Q: The books speak of that Ultimate joy and fulfillment which > is the result of knowledge. > > > > M: You are not going to meet it because you are it. Would you > go out to meet your Self? > > > > Q: No I come here. > > > > M: Before you know you were, did you have knowledge or > ignorance? In the absence of consciousness, who could say " I Am " ? > {Long silence}. You have all gone into quietude. > > > > Q: Every thought, every feeling in consciousness, is changing > all the time. I cannot be the changing, I am the changeless > consciousness which enables thoughts to pass. That is how I > understand it. Is that right? > > > > M: How deluded you are! > > > > Q: What I am trying to do is to stop identification with the > thoughts and feelings and not be possessed by them, as I use them as > pointers to the highest consciousness. > > > > M: Then why do you talk? The pointers of your feelings and > your thoughts are your Self and that is consciousness, so > consciousness and your Self are one. > > > > Q: I want to get away from the pain. > > > > M: The mind is deluding you is cheating you. > > > > Q: So I am the pain and I should be happy to be the pain? > > > > M: That is because you are embracing your body as your Self. > > > > Q: Exactly. That is why I am using a trick to escape that. > > > > M: Very good. In the later stages this consciousness is > itself the pain. Until you recognize and completely identify yourself > with the knowledge " I AM " you will identify with the body. That > knowledge " I Am " , you do not know her. Some others here have no pride > that they are knowledgeable; you alone are claiming all the knowledge > and pride. Now, how many more days are you going to visit this place? > > > > Q: Until the 7th. > > > > M: You have been given answers to your questions. Why should > you return? > > > > Q: Then these others don't not have the knowledge, and that's > why they can come back? > > > > M: You speak for yourself! Other people may be more > knowledgeable than you, why do you equate them with you? You have > committed a grave offense by equating these people with the level of > your wisdom. Take care of yourself, don't worry about others. How > dare you bother about others when you do not fully know yourself? > > > > Q: There is some link, which binds us together. > > > > M: Never criticize others. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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