Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Q: What is the greatest obstacle to experiencing [this] reality? Eckhart Tolle: Identification with your mind, which causes thought to become compulsive. Not to be able to stop thinking is a dreadful affliction, but we don't realize this because almost everybody is suffering from it, so it is considered normal. This incessant mental noise prevents you from finding that realm of inner stillness that is inseparable from Being. It also creates a false mind-made self that casts a shadow of fear and suffering. We will look at all that in more detail later. The philosopher Descartes believed that he had found the most fundamental truth when he made his famous statement: " I think, therefore I am. " He had, in fact, given expression to the most basic error: to equate thinking with Being and identity with thinking. The compulsive thinker, which means almost everyone, lives in a state of apparent separateness, in an insanely complex world of continuous problems and conflict, a world that reflects the ever-increasing fragmentation of the mind. Enlightenment is a state of wholeness, of being " at one " and therefore at peace. At one with life in its manifested aspect, the world, as well as with your deepest self and life unmanifested - at one with Being. Enlightenment is not only the end of suffering and of continuous conflict within and without, but also the end of the dreadful enslavement to incessant thinking. What an incredible liberation this is! Identification with your mind creates an opaque screen of concepts, labels, images, words, judgments, and definitions that blocks all true relationship. It comes between you and yourself, between you and your fellow man and woman, between you and nature, between you and God. It is this screen of thought that creates the illusion of separateness, the illusion that there is you and a totally separate " other. " You then forget the essential fact that, underneath the level of physical appearances and separate forms, you are one with all that is. By " forget, " I mean that you can no longer feel this oneness as self-evident reality. You may believe it to be true, but you no longer know it to be true. A belief may be comforting. Only through your own experience, however, does it become liberating. Thinking has become a disease. Disease happens when things get out of balance. For example, there is nothing wrong with cells dividing and multiplying in the body, but when this process continues in disregard of the total organism, cells proliferate and we have disease. Note: The mind is a superb instrument if used rightly. Used wrongly, however, it becomes very destructive. To put it more accurately, it is not so much that you use your mind wrongly - you usually don't use it at all. It uses you. This is the disease. You believe that you are your mind. This is the delusion. The instrument has taken you over. Q: I don't quite agree. It is true that I do a lot of aimless thinking, like most people, but I can still choose to use my mind to get and accomplish things, and I do that all the time. A: Just because you can solve a crossword puzzle or build an atom bomb doesn't mean that you use your mind. Just as dogs love to chew bones, the mind loves to get its teeth into problems. That's why it does crossword puzzles and builds atom bombs. You have no interest in either. Let me ask you this: can you be free of your mind whenever you want to? Have you found the " off " button? Q: You mean stop thinking altogether? No, I can't, except maybe for a moment or two. A: Then the mind is using you. You are unconsciously identified with it, so you don't even know that you are its slave. It's almost as if you were possessed without knowing it, and so you take the possessing entity to be yourself. The beginning of freedom is the realization that you are not the possessing entity - the thinker. Knowing this enables you to observe the entity. The moment you start watching the thinker, a higher level of consciousness becomes activated. You then begin to realize that there is a vast realm of intelligence beyond thought, that thought is only a tiny aspect of that intelligence. You also realize that all the things that truly matter - beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise from beyond the mind. You begin to awaken. ................. Nisargadatta: Everything is a play of ideas. In the state free from ideation (nirviikalpa samadhi) nothing is perceived. The root idea is *I Am*. It shatters the state of pure consciousness ..... Era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Era Molnar " <n0ndual wrote: > > > > Q: What is the greatest obstacle to experiencing [this] reality? > > Eckhart Tolle: Identification with your mind, which causes thought to become > compulsive. Not to be able to stop thinking is a dreadful affliction, but > we don't realize this because almost everybody is suffering from it, so it > is considered normal. This incessant mental noise prevents you from finding > that realm of inner stillness that is inseparable from Being. It also > creates a false mind-made self that casts a shadow of fear and suffering. > > We will look at all that in more detail later. > The philosopher Descartes believed that he had found the most fundamental > truth when he made his famous statement: " I think, therefore I am. " He had, in fact, given expression to the most basic error: to equate thinking with > Being and identity with thinking. The compulsive thinker, which means > almost everyone, lives in a state of apparent separateness, in an insanely > complex world of continuous problems and conflict, a world that reflects > the ever-increasing fragmentation of the mind. Enlightenment is a state of > wholeness, of being " at one " and therefore at peace. At one with life in > its manifested aspect, the world, as well as with your deepest self and > life unmanifested - at one with Being. > > Enlightenment is not only the end of > suffering and of continuous conflict within and without, but also the end > of the dreadful enslavement to incessant thinking. What an incredible > liberation this is! > Identification with your mind creates an opaque screen of concepts, labels, > images, words, judgments, and definitions that blocks all true > relationship. It comes between you and yourself, between you and your > fellow man and woman, between you and nature, between you and God. It is > this screen of thought that creates the illusion of separateness, the > illusion that there is you and a totally separate " other. " You then forget > the essential fact that, underneath the level of physical appearances and > separate forms, you are one with all that is. By " forget, " I mean that you > can no longer feel this oneness as self-evident reality. You may believe it > to be true, but you no longer know it to be true. A belief may be > comforting. Only through your own experience, however, does it become > liberating. > > Thinking has become a disease. Disease happens when things get out of > balance. For example, there is nothing wrong with cells dividing and > multiplying in the body, but when this process continues in disregard of > the total organism, cells proliferate and we have disease. > Note: The mind is a superb instrument if used rightly. Used wrongly, > however, it becomes very destructive. To put it more accurately, it is not > so much that you use your mind wrongly - you usually don't use it at all. > It uses you. This is the disease. You believe that you are your mind. This > is the delusion. The instrument has taken you over. > > Q: I don't quite agree. It is true that I do a lot of aimless thinking, > like most people, but I can still choose to use my mind to get and > accomplish things, and I do that all the time. > > A: Just because you can solve a crossword puzzle or build an atom bomb > doesn't mean that you use your mind. Just as dogs love to chew bones, the > mind loves to get its teeth into problems. That's why it does crossword > puzzles and builds atom bombs. You have no interest in either. Let me ask > you this: can you be free of your mind whenever you want to? Have you found > the " off " button? > > Q: You mean stop thinking altogether? No, I can't, except maybe for a > moment or two. > > A: Then the mind is using you. You are unconsciously identified with it, > so you don't even know that you are its slave. It's almost as if you were > possessed without knowing it, and so you take the possessing entity to be > yourself. The beginning of freedom is the realization that you are not the > possessing entity - the thinker. Knowing this enables you to observe the > entity. The moment you start watching the thinker, a higher level of > consciousness becomes activated. > > You then begin to realize that there is a > vast realm of intelligence beyond thought, that thought is only a tiny > aspect of that intelligence. You also realize that all the things that > truly matter - beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise from > beyond the mind. You begin to awaken. > ................ > > Nisargadatta: Everything is a play of ideas. In the state free from ideation (nirviikalpa samadhi) nothing is perceived. The root idea is *I Am*. It shatters the state of pure > consciousness ..... > > > Era > Eckhart speaks as if the 'you' (self) exists separately from the machinery of identification and can somehow not only access its assumed inferior situation but can also alter its condition in a way that could ultimately lead to its own enlightenment. The 'you'(self) is nothing other then the illusory entity that emerges concurrently with the plenum of identification. What Mr Tolle is pitching will undoubtly sell books........but he has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Era Molnar " <n0ndual@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Q: What is the greatest obstacle to experiencing [this] reality? > > > > Eckhart Tolle: Identification with your mind, which causes thought > to become > > compulsive. Not to be able to stop thinking is a dreadful > affliction, but > > we don't realize this because almost everybody is suffering from it, > so it > > is considered normal. This incessant mental noise prevents you from > finding > > that realm of inner stillness that is inseparable from Being. It also > > creates a false mind-made self that casts a shadow of fear and > suffering. > > > > We will look at all that in more detail later. > > The philosopher Descartes believed that he had found the most > fundamental > > truth when he made his famous statement: " I think, therefore I am. " > He had, in fact, given expression to the most basic error: to equate > thinking with > > Being and identity with thinking. The compulsive thinker, which means > > almost everyone, lives in a state of apparent separateness, in an > insanely > > complex world of continuous problems and conflict, a world that > reflects > > the ever-increasing fragmentation of the mind. Enlightenment is a > state of > > wholeness, of being " at one " and therefore at peace. At one with > life in > > its manifested aspect, the world, as well as with your deepest self and > > life unmanifested - at one with Being. > > > > Enlightenment is not only the end of > > suffering and of continuous conflict within and without, but also > the end > > of the dreadful enslavement to incessant thinking. What an incredible > > liberation this is! > > Identification with your mind creates an opaque screen of concepts, > labels, > > images, words, judgments, and definitions that blocks all true > > relationship. It comes between you and yourself, between you and your > > fellow man and woman, between you and nature, between you and God. > It is > > this screen of thought that creates the illusion of separateness, the > > illusion that there is you and a totally separate " other. " You then > forget > > the essential fact that, underneath the level of physical > appearances and > > separate forms, you are one with all that is. By " forget, " I mean > that you > > can no longer feel this oneness as self-evident reality. You may > believe it > > to be true, but you no longer know it to be true. A belief may be > > comforting. Only through your own experience, however, does it become > > liberating. > > > > Thinking has become a disease. Disease happens when things get out of > > balance. For example, there is nothing wrong with cells dividing and > > multiplying in the body, but when this process continues in > disregard of > > the total organism, cells proliferate and we have disease. > > Note: The mind is a superb instrument if used rightly. Used wrongly, > > however, it becomes very destructive. To put it more accurately, it > is not > > so much that you use your mind wrongly - you usually don't use it at > all. > > It uses you. This is the disease. You believe that you are your > mind. This > > is the delusion. The instrument has taken you over. > > > > Q: I don't quite agree. It is true that I do a lot of aimless thinking, > > like most people, but I can still choose to use my mind to get and > > accomplish things, and I do that all the time. > > > > A: Just because you can solve a crossword puzzle or build an atom bomb > > doesn't mean that you use your mind. Just as dogs love to chew > bones, the > > mind loves to get its teeth into problems. That's why it does crossword > > puzzles and builds atom bombs. You have no interest in either. Let > me ask > > you this: can you be free of your mind whenever you want to? Have > you found > > the " off " button? > > > > Q: You mean stop thinking altogether? No, I can't, except maybe for a > > moment or two. > > > > A: Then the mind is using you. You are unconsciously identified with > it, > > so you don't even know that you are its slave. It's almost as if you > were > > possessed without knowing it, and so you take the possessing entity > to be > > yourself. The beginning of freedom is the realization that you are > not the > > possessing entity - the thinker. Knowing this enables you to observe > the > > entity. The moment you start watching the thinker, a higher level of > > consciousness becomes activated. > > > > You then begin to realize that there is a > > vast realm of intelligence beyond thought, that thought is only a tiny > > aspect of that intelligence. You also realize that all the things that > > truly matter - beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise from > > beyond the mind. You begin to awaken. > > ................ > > > > Nisargadatta: Everything is a play of ideas. In the state free from > ideation (nirviikalpa samadhi) nothing is perceived. The root idea is > *I Am*. It shatters the state of pure > > consciousness ..... > > > > > > Era > > > > > > Eckhart speaks as if the 'you' (self) exists separately from the > machinery of identification and can somehow not only access its > assumed inferior situation but can also alter its condition in a way > that could ultimately lead to its own enlightenment. > > > The 'you'(self) is nothing other then the illusory entity that emerges > concurrently with the plenum of identification. > > > What Mr Tolle is pitching will undoubtly sell books........but he has > absolutely no idea what he is talking about. > > > > toombaru > yes... most of these teachers or gurus or avatars or whatever you wanna call em are talking to their devotees (or, students) as if there is a separate self which can then do some sort of process or method which will then purify the separate self enough so that it can then exterminate itself; as if this separate self were real. these gurus are merely reinforcing the sense of separate self they claim they can liberate " you " from. it's insane (it's big business). LOL ;-) dannyc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 <Nisargadatta: Everything is a play of ideas. In the state free from deation (nirviikalpa samadhi) nothing is perceived. The root idea is *I Am*. It shatters the state of pure consciousness ..... > Q: What is the greatest obstacle to experiencing [this] reality? Eckhart Tolle: Identification with your mind, which causes thought to become compulsive. Not to be able to stop thinking is a dreadful affliction, but we don't realize this because almost everybody is suffering from it, so it is considered normal. This incessant mental noise prevents you from finding that realm of inner stillness that is inseparable from Being. It also creates a false mind-made self that casts a shadow of fear and suffering. Tom: Eckhart speaks as if the 'you' (self) exists separately from the machinery of identification and can somehow not only access its assumed inferior situation but can also alter its condition in a way that could ultimately lead to its own enlightenment. The 'you'(self) is nothing other then the illusory entity that emerges concurrently with the plenum of identification. What Mr Tolle is pitching will undoubtly sell books........but he has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. Danny: yes... most of these teachers or gurus or avatars or whatever you wanna call em are talking to their devotees (or, students) as if there is a separate self which can then do some sort of process or method which will then purify the separate self enough so that it can then exterminate itself; as if this separate self were real. these gurus are merely reinforcing the sense of separate self they claim they can liberate " you " from. it's insane (it's big business). LOL ;-) Era: sorry to note, but both of 'you' overlayed your mind to the post.. projecting Tolle cont: We will look at all that in more detail later. The philosopher Descartes believed that he had found the most fundamental truth when he made his famous statement: " I think, therefore I am. " He had, in fact, given expression to the most basic error: to equate thinking with Being and identity with thinking. The compulsive thinker, which means almost everyone, lives in a state of apparent separateness, in an insanely complex world of continuous problems and conflict, a world that reflects the ever-increasing fragmentation of the mind. Enlightenment is a state of wholeness, of being " at one " and therefore at peace. At one with life in its manifested aspect, the world, as well as with your deepest self and life unmanifested - at one with Being. Enlightenment is not only the end of suffering and of continuous conflict within and without, but also the end of the dreadful enslavement to incessant thinking. What an incredible liberation this is! Identification with your mind creates an opaque screen of concepts, labels, images, words, judgments, and definitions that blocks all true relationship. It comes between you and yourself, between you and your fellow man and woman, between you and nature, between you and God. It is this screen of thought that creates the illusion of separateness, the illusion that there is you and a totally separate " other. " You then forget the essential fact that, underneath the level of physical appearances and separate forms, you are one with all that is. By " forget, " I mean that you can no longer feel this oneness as self-evident reality. You may believe it to be true, but you no longer know it to be true. A belief may be comforting. Only through your own experience, however, does it become liberating. Thinking has become a disease. Disease happens when things get out of balance. For example, there is nothing wrong with cells dividing and multiplying in the body, but when this process continues in disregard of the total organism, cells proliferate and we have disease. Note: The mind is a superb instrument if used rightly. Used wrongly, however, it becomes very destructive. To put it more accurately, it is not so much that you use your mind wrongly - you usually don't use it at all. It uses you. This is the disease. You believe that you are your mind. This is the delusion. The instrument has taken you over. Q: I don't quite agree. It is true that I do a lot of aimless thinking, like most people, but I can still choose to use my mind to get and accomplish things, and I do that all the time. A: Just because you can solve a crossword puzzle or build an atom bomb doesn't mean that you use your mind. Just as dogs love to chew bones, the mind loves to get its teeth into problems. That's why it does crossword puzzles and builds atom bombs. You have no interest in either. Let me ask you this: can you be free of your mind whenever you want to? Have you found the " off " button? Q: You mean stop thinking altogether? No, I can't, except maybe for a moment or two. A: Then the mind is using you. You are unconsciously identified with it, so you don't even know that you are its slave. It's almost as if you were possessed without knowing it, and so you take the possessing entity to be yourself. The beginning of freedom is the realization that you are not the possessing entity - the thinker. Knowing this enables you to observe the entity. The moment you start watching the thinker, a higher level of consciousness becomes activated. You then begin to realize that there is a vast realm of intelligence beyond thought, that thought is only a tiny aspect of that intelligence. You also realize that all the things that truly matter - beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise from beyond the mind. You begin to awaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Era Molnar " <n0ndual wrote: > > <Nisargadatta: Everything is a play of ideas. In the state free > from deation (nirviikalpa samadhi) nothing is perceived. The root idea is *I Am*. It shatters the state of pure > consciousness ..... > > > > Q: What is the greatest obstacle to experiencing [this] reality? > > Eckhart Tolle: Identification with your mind, which causes thought to become compulsive. > > Not to be able to stop thinking is a dreadful affliction, but > we don't realize this because almost everybody is suffering from it, so it is considered normal. This incessant mental noise prevents you from > finding that realm of inner stillness that is inseparable from Being. It also creates a false mind-made self that casts a shadow of fear and > suffering. > > > Tom: Eckhart speaks as if the 'you' (self) exists separately from the > machinery of identification and can somehow not only access its > assumed inferior situation but can also alter its condition in a way > that could ultimately lead to its own enlightenment. > The 'you'(self) is nothing other then the illusory entity that > emerges > concurrently with the plenum of identification. > What Mr Tolle is pitching will undoubtly sell books........but he > has > absolutely no idea what he is talking about. > > Danny: yes... most of these teachers or gurus or avatars or whatever you wanna call em are talking to their devotees (or, students) as if there > is a separate self which can then do some sort of process or method which will then purify the separate self enough so that it can then exterminate itself; as if this separate self were real. these gurus are merely reinforcing the sense of separate self they claim they can liberate " you " from. it's insane (it's big business). LOL ;-) > > Era: sorry to note, but both of 'you' overlayed your mind to the post.. projecting > > > > Tolle cont: We will look at all that in more detail later. The philosopher Descartes believed that he had found the most fundamental > truth when he made his famous statement: " I think, therefore I am. " > > He had, in fact, given expression to the most basic error: to equate thinking with > Being and identity with thinking. The compulsive thinker, which means almost everyone, lives in a state of apparent separateness, in an insanely complex world of continuous problems and conflict, a world that reflects the ever-increasing fragmentation of the mind. Enlightenment is a state of wholeness, of being " at one " and therefore at peace. At one with life in its manifested aspect, the world, as well as with your deepest self and life unmanifested - at one with Being. > > Enlightenment is not only the end of > suffering and of continuous conflict within and without, but also the end of the dreadful enslavement to incessant thinking. What an incredible liberation this is! > Identification with your mind creates an opaque screen of concepts, > labels, > images, words, judgments, and definitions that blocks all true relationship. It comes between you and yourself, between you and your fellow man and woman, between you and nature, between you and God. It is this screen of thought that creates the illusion of separateness, the illusion that there is you and a totally separate " other. " You then forget > the essential fact that, underneath the level of physical appearances and > separate forms, you are one with all that is. By " forget, " I mean that you can no longer feel this oneness as self-evident reality. > You may believe it > to be true, but you no longer know it to be true. A belief may be comforting. Only through your own experience, however, does it become liberating. > > Thinking has become a disease. Disease happens when things get out of balance. For example, there is nothing wrong with cells dividing and multiplying in the body, but when this process continues in > disregard of the total organism, cells proliferate and we have disease. Note: The mind is a superb instrument if used rightly. Used wrongly, however, it becomes very destructive. To put it more accurately, it > is not so much that you use your mind wrongly - you usually don't use it at all. > > It uses you. This is the disease. You believe that you are your mind. This > is the delusion. The instrument has taken you over. > > Q: I don't quite agree. It is true that I do a lot of aimless > thinking, like most people, but I can still choose to use my mind to get and accomplish things, and I do that all the time. > > A: Just because you can solve a crossword puzzle or build an atom bomb doesn't mean that you use your mind. Just as dogs love to chew bones, the > mind loves to get its teeth into problems. That's why it does crossword puzzles and builds atom bombs. You have no interest in either. Let me ask you this: can you be free of your mind whenever you want to? Have you found the " off " button? > > Q: You mean stop thinking altogether? No, I can't, except maybe for a moment or two. > > A: Then the mind is using you. You are unconsciously identified > with it, so you don't even know that you are its slave. It's almost as if you > were possessed without knowing it, and so you take the possessing entity > to be yourself. The beginning of freedom is the realization that you are not the possessing entity - the thinker. Knowing this enables you to observe > the entity. The moment you start watching the thinker, a higher level of consciousness becomes activated. > > You then begin to realize that there is a vast realm of intelligence beyond thought, that thought is only a tiny aspect of that intelligence. You also realize that all the things that truly matter - beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise from beyond the mind. You begin to awaken. > Baloney! New age pap. Mr. Tolle needs a good dose of UG....or perhaps a little more time on that park bench. " Enlightenment " is the complete annihilation of the one seeking it. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Era Molnar " <n0ndual@> wrote: > > > > <Nisargadatta: Everything is a play of ideas. In the state free > > from deation (nirviikalpa samadhi) nothing is perceived. The root > idea is *I Am*. It shatters the state of pure > > consciousness ..... > > > > > > > Q: What is the greatest obstacle to experiencing [this] reality? > > > > Eckhart Tolle: Identification with your mind, which causes thought > to become compulsive. > > > > Not to be able to stop thinking is a dreadful affliction, but > > we don't realize this because almost everybody is suffering from it, > so it is considered normal. This incessant mental noise prevents you from > > finding that realm of inner stillness that is inseparable from > Being. It also creates a false mind-made self that casts a shadow of > fear and > > suffering. > > > > > > Tom: Eckhart speaks as if the 'you' (self) exists separately from the > > machinery of identification and can somehow not only access its > > assumed inferior situation but can also alter its condition in a way > > that could ultimately lead to its own enlightenment. > > The 'you'(self) is nothing other then the illusory entity that > > emerges > > concurrently with the plenum of identification. > > What Mr Tolle is pitching will undoubtly sell books........but he > > has > > absolutely no idea what he is talking about. > > > > Danny: yes... most of these teachers or gurus or avatars or whatever > you wanna call em are talking to their devotees (or, students) as if there > > is a separate self which can then do some sort of process or > method which will then purify the separate self enough so that it can > then exterminate itself; as if this separate self were real. these > gurus are merely reinforcing the sense of separate self they claim > they can liberate " you " from. it's insane (it's big business). LOL ;-) > > > > Era: sorry to note, but both of 'you' overlayed your mind to the > post.. projecting > > > > > > > > Tolle cont: We will look at all that in more detail later. The > philosopher Descartes believed that he had found the most fundamental > > truth when he made his famous statement: " I think, therefore I am. " > > > > He had, in fact, given expression to the most basic error: to equate > thinking with > > Being and identity with thinking. The compulsive thinker, which > means almost everyone, lives in a state of apparent separateness, in > an insanely complex world of continuous problems and conflict, a world > that reflects the ever-increasing fragmentation of the mind. > Enlightenment is a state of wholeness, of being " at one " and therefore > at peace. At one with life in its manifested aspect, the world, as > well as with your deepest self and life unmanifested - at one with Being. > > > > Enlightenment is not only the end of > > suffering and of continuous conflict within and without, but also > the end of the dreadful enslavement to incessant thinking. What an > incredible liberation this is! > > Identification with your mind creates an opaque screen of concepts, > > labels, > > images, words, judgments, and definitions that blocks all true > relationship. It comes between you and yourself, between you and your > fellow man and woman, between you and nature, between you and God. It > is this screen of thought that creates the illusion of separateness, > the illusion that there is you and a totally separate " other. " You > then forget > > the essential fact that, underneath the level of physical > appearances and > > separate forms, you are one with all that is. By " forget, " I mean > that you can no longer feel this oneness as self-evident reality. > > You may believe it > > to be true, but you no longer know it to be true. A belief may be > comforting. Only through your own experience, however, does it become > liberating. > > > > Thinking has become a disease. Disease happens when things get out > of balance. For example, there is nothing wrong with cells dividing > and multiplying in the body, but when this process continues in > > disregard of the total organism, cells proliferate and we have > disease. Note: The mind is a superb instrument if used rightly. Used > wrongly, however, it becomes very destructive. To put it more > accurately, it > > is not so much that you use your mind wrongly - you usually don't > use it at all. > > > > It uses you. This is the disease. You believe that you are your > mind. This > > is the delusion. The instrument has taken you over. > > > > Q: I don't quite agree. It is true that I do a lot of aimless > > thinking, like most people, but I can still choose to use my mind to > get and accomplish things, and I do that all the time. > > > > A: Just because you can solve a crossword puzzle or build an atom > bomb doesn't mean that you use your mind. Just as dogs love to chew > bones, the > > mind loves to get its teeth into problems. That's why it does > crossword puzzles and builds atom bombs. You have no interest in > either. Let me ask you this: can you be free of your mind whenever you > want to? Have you found the " off " button? > > > > Q: You mean stop thinking altogether? No, I can't, except maybe for > a moment or two. > > > > A: Then the mind is using you. You are unconsciously identified > > with it, so you don't even know that you are its slave. It's almost > as if you > > were possessed without knowing it, and so you take the possessing > entity > > to be yourself. The beginning of freedom is the realization that you > are not the possessing entity - the thinker. Knowing this enables you > to observe > > the entity. The moment you start watching the thinker, a higher > level of consciousness becomes activated. > > > > You then begin to realize that there is a vast realm of intelligence > beyond thought, that thought is only a tiny aspect of that > intelligence. You also realize that all the things that truly matter - > beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise from beyond the > mind. You begin to awaken. > > > > > > > Baloney! > > New age pap. > > Mr. Tolle needs a good dose of UG....or perhaps a little more time on > that park bench. > > > " Enlightenment " is the complete annihilation of the one seeking it. > > > > toombaru > " Pap " -Envy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Era Molnar " <n0ndual@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Q: What is the greatest obstacle to experiencing [this] reality? > > > > Eckhart Tolle: Identification with your mind, which causes thought > to become > > compulsive. Not to be able to stop thinking is a dreadful > affliction, but > > we don't realize this because almost everybody is suffering from it, > so it > > is considered normal. This incessant mental noise prevents you from > finding > > that realm of inner stillness that is inseparable from Being. It also > > creates a false mind-made self that casts a shadow of fear and > suffering. > > > > We will look at all that in more detail later. > > The philosopher Descartes believed that he had found the most > fundamental > > truth when he made his famous statement: " I think, therefore I am. " > He had, in fact, given expression to the most basic error: to equate > thinking with > > Being and identity with thinking. The compulsive thinker, which means > > almost everyone, lives in a state of apparent separateness, in an > insanely > > complex world of continuous problems and conflict, a world that > reflects > > the ever-increasing fragmentation of the mind. Enlightenment is a > state of > > wholeness, of being " at one " and therefore at peace. At one with > life in > > its manifested aspect, the world, as well as with your deepest self and > > life unmanifested - at one with Being. > > > > Enlightenment is not only the end of > > suffering and of continuous conflict within and without, but also > the end > > of the dreadful enslavement to incessant thinking. What an incredible > > liberation this is! > > Identification with your mind creates an opaque screen of concepts, > labels, > > images, words, judgments, and definitions that blocks all true > > relationship. It comes between you and yourself, between you and your > > fellow man and woman, between you and nature, between you and God. > It is > > this screen of thought that creates the illusion of separateness, the > > illusion that there is you and a totally separate " other. " You then > forget > > the essential fact that, underneath the level of physical > appearances and > > separate forms, you are one with all that is. By " forget, " I mean > that you > > can no longer feel this oneness as self-evident reality. You may > believe it > > to be true, but you no longer know it to be true. A belief may be > > comforting. Only through your own experience, however, does it become > > liberating. > > > > Thinking has become a disease. Disease happens when things get out of > > balance. For example, there is nothing wrong with cells dividing and > > multiplying in the body, but when this process continues in > disregard of > > the total organism, cells proliferate and we have disease. > > Note: The mind is a superb instrument if used rightly. Used wrongly, > > however, it becomes very destructive. To put it more accurately, it > is not > > so much that you use your mind wrongly - you usually don't use it at > all. > > It uses you. This is the disease. You believe that you are your > mind. This > > is the delusion. The instrument has taken you over. > > > > Q: I don't quite agree. It is true that I do a lot of aimless thinking, > > like most people, but I can still choose to use my mind to get and > > accomplish things, and I do that all the time. > > > > A: Just because you can solve a crossword puzzle or build an atom bomb > > doesn't mean that you use your mind. Just as dogs love to chew > bones, the > > mind loves to get its teeth into problems. That's why it does crossword > > puzzles and builds atom bombs. You have no interest in either. Let > me ask > > you this: can you be free of your mind whenever you want to? Have > you found > > the " off " button? > > > > Q: You mean stop thinking altogether? No, I can't, except maybe for a > > moment or two. > > > > A: Then the mind is using you. You are unconsciously identified with > it, > > so you don't even know that you are its slave. It's almost as if you > were > > possessed without knowing it, and so you take the possessing entity > to be > > yourself. The beginning of freedom is the realization that you are > not the > > possessing entity - the thinker. Knowing this enables you to observe > the > > entity. The moment you start watching the thinker, a higher level of > > consciousness becomes activated. > > > > You then begin to realize that there is a > > vast realm of intelligence beyond thought, that thought is only a tiny > > aspect of that intelligence. You also realize that all the things that > > truly matter - beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise from > > beyond the mind. You begin to awaken. > > ................ > > > > Nisargadatta: Everything is a play of ideas. In the state free from > ideation (nirviikalpa samadhi) nothing is perceived. The root idea is > *I Am*. It shatters the state of pure > > consciousness ..... > > > > > > Era > > > > > > Eckhart speaks as if the 'you' (self) exists separately from the > machinery of identification and can somehow not only access its > assumed inferior situation but can also alter its condition in a way > that could ultimately lead to its own enlightenment. > > > The 'you'(self) is nothing other then the illusory entity that emerges > concurrently with the plenum of identification. > > > What Mr Tolle is pitching will undoubtly sell books........but he has > absolutely no idea what he is talking about. > > > > toombaru > " The 'you'(self) is nothing other then the illusory entity that emerges concurrently with the plenum of identification. but he has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. " -You both have a lot in common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Era Molnar " <n0ndual@> wrote: > > > > > > <Nisargadatta: Everything is a play of ideas. In the state free > > > from deation (nirviikalpa samadhi) nothing is perceived. The root > > idea is *I Am*. It shatters the state of pure > > > consciousness ..... > > > > > > > > > > Q: What is the greatest obstacle to experiencing [this] reality? > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle: Identification with your mind, which causes thought > > to become compulsive. > > > > > > Not to be able to stop thinking is a dreadful affliction, but > > > we don't realize this because almost everybody is suffering from > it, > > so it is considered normal. This incessant mental noise prevents > you from > > > finding that realm of inner stillness that is inseparable from > > Being. It also creates a false mind-made self that casts a shadow of > > fear and > > > suffering. > > > > > > > > > Tom: Eckhart speaks as if the 'you' (self) exists separately from > the > > > machinery of identification and can somehow not only access its > > > assumed inferior situation but can also alter its condition in a > way > > > that could ultimately lead to its own enlightenment. > > > The 'you'(self) is nothing other then the illusory entity that > > > emerges > > > concurrently with the plenum of identification. > > > What Mr Tolle is pitching will undoubtly sell books........but he > > > has > > > absolutely no idea what he is talking about. > > > > > > Danny: yes... most of these teachers or gurus or avatars or > whatever > > you wanna call em are talking to their devotees (or, students) as > if there > > > is a separate self which can then do some sort of process or > > method which will then purify the separate self enough so that it > can > > then exterminate itself; as if this separate self were real. these > > gurus are merely reinforcing the sense of separate self they claim > > they can liberate " you " from. it's insane (it's big business). > LOL ;-) > > > > > > Era: sorry to note, but both of 'you' overlayed your mind to the > > post.. projecting > > > > > > > > > > > > Tolle cont: We will look at all that in more detail later. The > > philosopher Descartes believed that he had found the most > fundamental > > > truth when he made his famous statement: " I think, therefore I > am. " > > > > > > He had, in fact, given expression to the most basic error: to > equate > > thinking with > > > Being and identity with thinking. The compulsive thinker, which > > means almost everyone, lives in a state of apparent separateness, in > > an insanely complex world of continuous problems and conflict, a > world > > that reflects the ever-increasing fragmentation of the mind. > > Enlightenment is a state of wholeness, of being " at one " and > therefore > > at peace. At one with life in its manifested aspect, the world, as > > well as with your deepest self and life unmanifested - at one with > Being. > > > > > > Enlightenment is not only the end of > > > suffering and of continuous conflict within and without, but also > > the end of the dreadful enslavement to incessant thinking. What an > > incredible liberation this is! > > > Identification with your mind creates an opaque screen of > concepts, > > > labels, > > > images, words, judgments, and definitions that blocks all true > > relationship. It comes between you and yourself, between you and > your > > fellow man and woman, between you and nature, between you and God. > It > > is this screen of thought that creates the illusion of separateness, > > the illusion that there is you and a totally separate " other. " You > > then forget > > > the essential fact that, underneath the level of physical > > appearances and > > > separate forms, you are one with all that is. By " forget, " I mean > > that you can no longer feel this oneness as self-evident reality. > > > You may believe it > > > to be true, but you no longer know it to be true. A belief may be > > comforting. Only through your own experience, however, does it > become > > liberating. > > > > > > Thinking has become a disease. Disease happens when things get out > > of balance. For example, there is nothing wrong with cells dividing > > and multiplying in the body, but when this process continues in > > > disregard of the total organism, cells proliferate and we have > > disease. Note: The mind is a superb instrument if used rightly. Used > > wrongly, however, it becomes very destructive. To put it more > > accurately, it > > > is not so much that you use your mind wrongly - you usually don't > > use it at all. > > > > > > It uses you. This is the disease. You believe that you are your > > mind. This > > > is the delusion. The instrument has taken you over. > > > > > > Q: I don't quite agree. It is true that I do a lot of aimless > > > thinking, like most people, but I can still choose to use my mind > to > > get and accomplish things, and I do that all the time. > > > > > > A: Just because you can solve a crossword puzzle or build an atom > > bomb doesn't mean that you use your mind. Just as dogs love to chew > > bones, the > > > mind loves to get its teeth into problems. That's why it does > > crossword puzzles and builds atom bombs. You have no interest in > > either. Let me ask you this: can you be free of your mind whenever > you > > want to? Have you found the " off " button? > > > > > > Q: You mean stop thinking altogether? No, I can't, except maybe > for > > a moment or two. > > > > > > A: Then the mind is using you. You are unconsciously identified > > > with it, so you don't even know that you are its slave. It's > almost > > as if you > > > were possessed without knowing it, and so you take the possessing > > entity > > > to be yourself. The beginning of freedom is the realization that > you > > are not the possessing entity - the thinker. Knowing this enables > you > > to observe > > > the entity. The moment you start watching the thinker, a higher > > level of consciousness becomes activated. > > > > > > You then begin to realize that there is a vast realm of > intelligence > > beyond thought, that thought is only a tiny aspect of that > > intelligence. You also realize that all the things that truly > matter - > > beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise from beyond the > > mind. You begin to awaken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Baloney! > > > > New age pap. > > > > Mr. Tolle needs a good dose of UG....or perhaps a little more time > on > > that park bench. > > > > > > " Enlightenment " is the complete annihilation of the one seeking it. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > " Pap " > > -Envy. > Your opinion is noted. Would you like to discuss what Mr Toole is extolling? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Era Molnar " <n0ndual@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Q: What is the greatest obstacle to experiencing [this] reality? > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle: Identification with your mind, which causes thought > > to become > > > compulsive. Not to be able to stop thinking is a dreadful > > affliction, but > > > we don't realize this because almost everybody is suffering from > it, > > so it > > > is considered normal. This incessant mental noise prevents you > from > > finding > > > that realm of inner stillness that is inseparable from Being. It > also > > > creates a false mind-made self that casts a shadow of fear and > > suffering. > > > > > > We will look at all that in more detail later. > > > The philosopher Descartes believed that he had found the most > > fundamental > > > truth when he made his famous statement: " I think, therefore I > am. " > > He had, in fact, given expression to the most basic error: to equate > > thinking with > > > Being and identity with thinking. The compulsive thinker, which > means > > > almost everyone, lives in a state of apparent separateness, in an > > insanely > > > complex world of continuous problems and conflict, a world that > > reflects > > > the ever-increasing fragmentation of the mind. Enlightenment is a > > state of > > > wholeness, of being " at one " and therefore at peace. At one with > > life in > > > its manifested aspect, the world, as well as with your deepest > self and > > > life unmanifested - at one with Being. > > > > > > Enlightenment is not only the end of > > > suffering and of continuous conflict within and without, but also > > the end > > > of the dreadful enslavement to incessant thinking. What an > incredible > > > liberation this is! > > > Identification with your mind creates an opaque screen of > concepts, > > labels, > > > images, words, judgments, and definitions that blocks all true > > > relationship. It comes between you and yourself, between you and > your > > > fellow man and woman, between you and nature, between you and God. > > It is > > > this screen of thought that creates the illusion of separateness, > the > > > illusion that there is you and a totally separate " other. " You > then > > forget > > > the essential fact that, underneath the level of physical > > appearances and > > > separate forms, you are one with all that is. By " forget, " I mean > > that you > > > can no longer feel this oneness as self-evident reality. You may > > believe it > > > to be true, but you no longer know it to be true. A belief may be > > > comforting. Only through your own experience, however, does it > become > > > liberating. > > > > > > Thinking has become a disease. Disease happens when things get > out of > > > balance. For example, there is nothing wrong with cells dividing > and > > > multiplying in the body, but when this process continues in > > disregard of > > > the total organism, cells proliferate and we have disease. > > > Note: The mind is a superb instrument if used rightly. Used > wrongly, > > > however, it becomes very destructive. To put it more accurately, > it > > is not > > > so much that you use your mind wrongly - you usually don't use it > at > > all. > > > It uses you. This is the disease. You believe that you are your > > mind. This > > > is the delusion. The instrument has taken you over. > > > > > > Q: I don't quite agree. It is true that I do a lot of aimless > thinking, > > > like most people, but I can still choose to use my mind to get > and > > > accomplish things, and I do that all the time. > > > > > > A: Just because you can solve a crossword puzzle or build an atom > bomb > > > doesn't mean that you use your mind. Just as dogs love to chew > > bones, the > > > mind loves to get its teeth into problems. That's why it does > crossword > > > puzzles and builds atom bombs. You have no interest in either. Let > > me ask > > > you this: can you be free of your mind whenever you want to? Have > > you found > > > the " off " button? > > > > > > Q: You mean stop thinking altogether? No, I can't, except maybe > for a > > > moment or two. > > > > > > A: Then the mind is using you. You are unconsciously identified > with > > it, > > > so you don't even know that you are its slave. It's almost as if > you > > were > > > possessed without knowing it, and so you take the possessing > entity > > to be > > > yourself. The beginning of freedom is the realization that you are > > not the > > > possessing entity - the thinker. Knowing this enables you to > observe > > the > > > entity. The moment you start watching the thinker, a higher level > of > > > consciousness becomes activated. > > > > > > You then begin to realize that there is a > > > vast realm of intelligence beyond thought, that thought is only a > tiny > > > aspect of that intelligence. You also realize that all the things > that > > > truly matter - beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise > from > > > beyond the mind. You begin to awaken. > > > ................ > > > > > > Nisargadatta: Everything is a play of ideas. In the state free > from > > ideation (nirviikalpa samadhi) nothing is perceived. The root idea > is > > *I Am*. It shatters the state of pure > > > consciousness ..... > > > > > > > > > Era > > > > > > > > > > > Eckhart speaks as if the 'you' (self) exists separately from the > > machinery of identification and can somehow not only access its > > assumed inferior situation but can also alter its condition in a way > > that could ultimately lead to its own enlightenment. > > > > > > The 'you'(self) is nothing other then the illusory entity that > emerges > > concurrently with the plenum of identification. > > > > > > What Mr Tolle is pitching will undoubtly sell books........but he > has > > absolutely no idea what he is talking about. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > " The 'you'(self) is nothing other then the illusory entity that > emerges concurrently with the plenum of identification. > > but he has > absolutely no idea what he is talking about. " > > > -You both have a lot in common. > Your opinion is noted. Would you care to discuss what he is saying?......or do you just want to express your ideas about me? One is more difficult.......but far more rewarding...then the other. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Era Molnar " <n0ndual@> wrote: > > > > > > > > <Nisargadatta: Everything is a play of ideas. In the state free > > > > from deation (nirviikalpa samadhi) nothing is perceived. The root > > > idea is *I Am*. It shatters the state of pure > > > > consciousness ..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Q: What is the greatest obstacle to experiencing [this] reality? > > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle: Identification with your mind, which causes thought > > > to become compulsive. > > > > > > > > Not to be able to stop thinking is a dreadful affliction, but > > > > we don't realize this because almost everybody is suffering from > > it, > > > so it is considered normal. This incessant mental noise prevents > > you from > > > > finding that realm of inner stillness that is inseparable from > > > Being. It also creates a false mind-made self that casts a shadow of > > > fear and > > > > suffering. > > > > > > > > > > > > Tom: Eckhart speaks as if the 'you' (self) exists separately from > > the > > > > machinery of identification and can somehow not only access its > > > > assumed inferior situation but can also alter its condition in a > > way > > > > that could ultimately lead to its own enlightenment. > > > > The 'you'(self) is nothing other then the illusory entity that > > > > emerges > > > > concurrently with the plenum of identification. > > > > What Mr Tolle is pitching will undoubtly sell books........but he > > > > has > > > > absolutely no idea what he is talking about. > > > > > > > > Danny: yes... most of these teachers or gurus or avatars or > > whatever > > > you wanna call em are talking to their devotees (or, students) as > > if there > > > > is a separate self which can then do some sort of process or > > > method which will then purify the separate self enough so that it > > can > > > then exterminate itself; as if this separate self were real. these > > > gurus are merely reinforcing the sense of separate self they claim > > > they can liberate " you " from. it's insane (it's big business). > > LOL ;-) > > > > > > > > Era: sorry to note, but both of 'you' overlayed your mind to the > > > post.. projecting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tolle cont: We will look at all that in more detail later. The > > > philosopher Descartes believed that he had found the most > > fundamental > > > > truth when he made his famous statement: " I think, therefore I > > am. " > > > > > > > > He had, in fact, given expression to the most basic error: to > > equate > > > thinking with > > > > Being and identity with thinking. The compulsive thinker, which > > > means almost everyone, lives in a state of apparent separateness, in > > > an insanely complex world of continuous problems and conflict, a > > world > > > that reflects the ever-increasing fragmentation of the mind. > > > Enlightenment is a state of wholeness, of being " at one " and > > therefore > > > at peace. At one with life in its manifested aspect, the world, as > > > well as with your deepest self and life unmanifested - at one with > > Being. > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is not only the end of > > > > suffering and of continuous conflict within and without, but also > > > the end of the dreadful enslavement to incessant thinking. What an > > > incredible liberation this is! > > > > Identification with your mind creates an opaque screen of > > concepts, > > > > labels, > > > > images, words, judgments, and definitions that blocks all true > > > relationship. It comes between you and yourself, between you and > > your > > > fellow man and woman, between you and nature, between you and God. > > It > > > is this screen of thought that creates the illusion of separateness, > > > the illusion that there is you and a totally separate " other. " You > > > then forget > > > > the essential fact that, underneath the level of physical > > > appearances and > > > > separate forms, you are one with all that is. By " forget, " I mean > > > that you can no longer feel this oneness as self-evident reality. > > > > You may believe it > > > > to be true, but you no longer know it to be true. A belief may be > > > comforting. Only through your own experience, however, does it > > become > > > liberating. > > > > > > > > Thinking has become a disease. Disease happens when things get out > > > of balance. For example, there is nothing wrong with cells dividing > > > and multiplying in the body, but when this process continues in > > > > disregard of the total organism, cells proliferate and we have > > > disease. Note: The mind is a superb instrument if used rightly. Used > > > wrongly, however, it becomes very destructive. To put it more > > > accurately, it > > > > is not so much that you use your mind wrongly - you usually don't > > > use it at all. > > > > > > > > It uses you. This is the disease. You believe that you are your > > > mind. This > > > > is the delusion. The instrument has taken you over. > > > > > > > > Q: I don't quite agree. It is true that I do a lot of aimless > > > > thinking, like most people, but I can still choose to use my mind > > to > > > get and accomplish things, and I do that all the time. > > > > > > > > A: Just because you can solve a crossword puzzle or build an atom > > > bomb doesn't mean that you use your mind. Just as dogs love to chew > > > bones, the > > > > mind loves to get its teeth into problems. That's why it does > > > crossword puzzles and builds atom bombs. You have no interest in > > > either. Let me ask you this: can you be free of your mind whenever > > you > > > want to? Have you found the " off " button? > > > > > > > > Q: You mean stop thinking altogether? No, I can't, except maybe > > for > > > a moment or two. > > > > > > > > A: Then the mind is using you. You are unconsciously identified > > > > with it, so you don't even know that you are its slave. It's > > almost > > > as if you > > > > were possessed without knowing it, and so you take the possessing > > > entity > > > > to be yourself. The beginning of freedom is the realization that > > you > > > are not the possessing entity - the thinker. Knowing this enables > > you > > > to observe > > > > the entity. The moment you start watching the thinker, a higher > > > level of consciousness becomes activated. > > > > > > > > You then begin to realize that there is a vast realm of > > intelligence > > > beyond thought, that thought is only a tiny aspect of that > > > intelligence. You also realize that all the things that truly > > matter - > > > beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise from beyond the > > > mind. You begin to awaken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Baloney! > > > > > > New age pap. > > > > > > Mr. Tolle needs a good dose of UG....or perhaps a little more time > > on > > > that park bench. > > > > > > > > > " Enlightenment " is the complete annihilation of the one seeking it. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > " Pap " > > > > -Envy. > > > > > > Your opinion is noted. > > Would you like to discuss what Mr Toole is extolling? > > > > toombaru > Read enough about Sri Troll to know that he's not one of my favorites, to say the least. Don't think that you have more to contribute to what he's got to say, let alone being more original than he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Era Molnar " <n0ndual@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > <Nisargadatta: Everything is a play of ideas. In the state > free > > > > > from deation (nirviikalpa samadhi) nothing is perceived. The > root > > > > idea is *I Am*. It shatters the state of pure > > > > > consciousness ..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Q: What is the greatest obstacle to experiencing [this] > reality? > > > > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle: Identification with your mind, which causes > thought > > > > to become compulsive. > > > > > > > > > > Not to be able to stop thinking is a dreadful affliction, but > > > > > we don't realize this because almost everybody is suffering > from > > > it, > > > > so it is considered normal. This incessant mental noise > prevents > > > you from > > > > > finding that realm of inner stillness that is inseparable from > > > > Being. It also creates a false mind-made self that casts a > shadow of > > > > fear and > > > > > suffering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tom: Eckhart speaks as if the 'you' (self) exists separately > from > > > the > > > > > machinery of identification and can somehow not only access > its > > > > > assumed inferior situation but can also alter its condition > in a > > > way > > > > > that could ultimately lead to its own enlightenment. > > > > > The 'you'(self) is nothing other then the illusory entity > that > > > > > emerges > > > > > concurrently with the plenum of identification. > > > > > What Mr Tolle is pitching will undoubtly sell > books........but he > > > > > has > > > > > absolutely no idea what he is talking about. > > > > > > > > > > Danny: yes... most of these teachers or gurus or avatars or > > > whatever > > > > you wanna call em are talking to their devotees (or, students) > as > > > if there > > > > > is a separate self which can then do some sort of process or > > > > method which will then purify the separate self enough so that > it > > > can > > > > then exterminate itself; as if this separate self were real. > these > > > > gurus are merely reinforcing the sense of separate self they > claim > > > > they can liberate " you " from. it's insane (it's big business). > > > LOL ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Era: sorry to note, but both of 'you' overlayed your mind to > the > > > > post.. projecting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tolle cont: We will look at all that in more detail later. The > > > > philosopher Descartes believed that he had found the most > > > fundamental > > > > > truth when he made his famous statement: " I think, therefore > I > > > am. " > > > > > > > > > > He had, in fact, given expression to the most basic error: to > > > equate > > > > thinking with > > > > > Being and identity with thinking. The compulsive thinker, > which > > > > means almost everyone, lives in a state of apparent > separateness, in > > > > an insanely complex world of continuous problems and conflict, > a > > > world > > > > that reflects the ever-increasing fragmentation of the mind. > > > > Enlightenment is a state of wholeness, of being " at one " and > > > therefore > > > > at peace. At one with life in its manifested aspect, the world, > as > > > > well as with your deepest self and life unmanifested - at one > with > > > Being. > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is not only the end of > > > > > suffering and of continuous conflict within and without, but > also > > > > the end of the dreadful enslavement to incessant thinking. What > an > > > > incredible liberation this is! > > > > > Identification with your mind creates an opaque screen of > > > concepts, > > > > > labels, > > > > > images, words, judgments, and definitions that blocks all true > > > > relationship. It comes between you and yourself, between you > and > > > your > > > > fellow man and woman, between you and nature, between you and > God. > > > It > > > > is this screen of thought that creates the illusion of > separateness, > > > > the illusion that there is you and a totally separate " other. " > You > > > > then forget > > > > > the essential fact that, underneath the level of physical > > > > appearances and > > > > > separate forms, you are one with all that is. By " forget, " I > mean > > > > that you can no longer feel this oneness as self-evident > reality. > > > > > You may believe it > > > > > to be true, but you no longer know it to be true. A belief > may be > > > > comforting. Only through your own experience, however, does it > > > become > > > > liberating. > > > > > > > > > > Thinking has become a disease. Disease happens when things > get out > > > > of balance. For example, there is nothing wrong with cells > dividing > > > > and multiplying in the body, but when this process continues in > > > > > disregard of the total organism, cells proliferate and we have > > > > disease. Note: The mind is a superb instrument if used rightly. > Used > > > > wrongly, however, it becomes very destructive. To put it more > > > > accurately, it > > > > > is not so much that you use your mind wrongly - you usually > don't > > > > use it at all. > > > > > > > > > > It uses you. This is the disease. You believe that you are > your > > > > mind. This > > > > > is the delusion. The instrument has taken you over. > > > > > > > > > > Q: I don't quite agree. It is true that I do a lot of aimless > > > > > thinking, like most people, but I can still choose to use my > mind > > > to > > > > get and accomplish things, and I do that all the time. > > > > > > > > > > A: Just because you can solve a crossword puzzle or build an > atom > > > > bomb doesn't mean that you use your mind. Just as dogs love to > chew > > > > bones, the > > > > > mind loves to get its teeth into problems. That's why it does > > > > crossword puzzles and builds atom bombs. You have no interest in > > > > either. Let me ask you this: can you be free of your mind > whenever > > > you > > > > want to? Have you found the " off " button? > > > > > > > > > > Q: You mean stop thinking altogether? No, I can't, except > maybe > > > for > > > > a moment or two. > > > > > > > > > > A: Then the mind is using you. You are unconsciously > identified > > > > > with it, so you don't even know that you are its slave. It's > > > almost > > > > as if you > > > > > were possessed without knowing it, and so you take the > possessing > > > > entity > > > > > to be yourself. The beginning of freedom is the realization > that > > > you > > > > are not the possessing entity - the thinker. Knowing this > enables > > > you > > > > to observe > > > > > the entity. The moment you start watching the thinker, a > higher > > > > level of consciousness becomes activated. > > > > > > > > > > You then begin to realize that there is a vast realm of > > > intelligence > > > > beyond thought, that thought is only a tiny aspect of that > > > > intelligence. You also realize that all the things that truly > > > matter - > > > > beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise from beyond > the > > > > mind. You begin to awaken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Baloney! > > > > > > > > New age pap. > > > > > > > > Mr. Tolle needs a good dose of UG....or perhaps a little more > time > > > on > > > > that park bench. > > > > > > > > > > > > " Enlightenment " is the complete annihilation of the one seeking > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > " Pap " > > > > > > -Envy. > > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion is noted. > > > > Would you like to discuss what Mr Toole is extolling? > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > Read enough about Sri Troll to know that he's not one of my > favorites, to say the least. > Don't think that you have more to contribute to what he's got to say, > let alone being more original than he is. > If your present belief structure makes you happy.....you should strive to keep it intact. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Read enough about Sri Troll to know that he's not one of my favorites, to say the least ----------------------------- My question is not one of confutation, but one of wanting to understand. Why the need to use the term Sri Troll. I understand that you do not agree with his ideas. I am just curious and would like to understand. I do hope that you understand that I am a beginner and I frequently ask in ignorance. Judy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Era Molnar " <n0ndual@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > <Nisargadatta: Everything is a play of ideas. In the state > > free > > > > > > from deation (nirviikalpa samadhi) nothing is perceived. The > > root > > > > > idea is *I Am*. It shatters the state of pure > > > > > > consciousness ..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Q: What is the greatest obstacle to experiencing [this] > > reality? > > > > > > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle: Identification with your mind, which causes > > thought > > > > > to become compulsive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not to be able to stop thinking is a dreadful affliction, but > > > > > > we don't realize this because almost everybody is suffering > > from > > > > it, > > > > > so it is considered normal. This incessant mental noise > > prevents > > > > you from > > > > > > finding that realm of inner stillness that is inseparable from > > > > > Being. It also creates a false mind-made self that casts a > > shadow of > > > > > fear and > > > > > > suffering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tom: Eckhart speaks as if the 'you' (self) exists separately > > from > > > > the > > > > > > machinery of identification and can somehow not only access > > its > > > > > > assumed inferior situation but can also alter its condition > > in a > > > > way > > > > > > that could ultimately lead to its own enlightenment. > > > > > > The 'you'(self) is nothing other then the illusory entity > > that > > > > > > emerges > > > > > > concurrently with the plenum of identification. > > > > > > What Mr Tolle is pitching will undoubtly sell > > books........but he > > > > > > has > > > > > > absolutely no idea what he is talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > Danny: yes... most of these teachers or gurus or avatars or > > > > whatever > > > > > you wanna call em are talking to their devotees (or, students) > > as > > > > if there > > > > > > is a separate self which can then do some sort of process or > > > > > method which will then purify the separate self enough so that > > it > > > > can > > > > > then exterminate itself; as if this separate self were real. > > these > > > > > gurus are merely reinforcing the sense of separate self they > > claim > > > > > they can liberate " you " from. it's insane (it's big business). > > > > LOL ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Era: sorry to note, but both of 'you' overlayed your mind to > > the > > > > > post.. projecting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tolle cont: We will look at all that in more detail later. The > > > > > philosopher Descartes believed that he had found the most > > > > fundamental > > > > > > truth when he made his famous statement: " I think, therefore > > I > > > > am. " > > > > > > > > > > > > He had, in fact, given expression to the most basic error: to > > > > equate > > > > > thinking with > > > > > > Being and identity with thinking. The compulsive thinker, > > which > > > > > means almost everyone, lives in a state of apparent > > separateness, in > > > > > an insanely complex world of continuous problems and conflict, > > a > > > > world > > > > > that reflects the ever-increasing fragmentation of the mind. > > > > > Enlightenment is a state of wholeness, of being " at one " and > > > > therefore > > > > > at peace. At one with life in its manifested aspect, the world, > > as > > > > > well as with your deepest self and life unmanifested - at one > > with > > > > Being. > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is not only the end of > > > > > > suffering and of continuous conflict within and without, but > > also > > > > > the end of the dreadful enslavement to incessant thinking. What > > an > > > > > incredible liberation this is! > > > > > > Identification with your mind creates an opaque screen of > > > > concepts, > > > > > > labels, > > > > > > images, words, judgments, and definitions that blocks all true > > > > > relationship. It comes between you and yourself, between you > > and > > > > your > > > > > fellow man and woman, between you and nature, between you and > > God. > > > > It > > > > > is this screen of thought that creates the illusion of > > separateness, > > > > > the illusion that there is you and a totally separate " other. " > > You > > > > > then forget > > > > > > the essential fact that, underneath the level of physical > > > > > appearances and > > > > > > separate forms, you are one with all that is. By " forget, " I > > mean > > > > > that you can no longer feel this oneness as self-evident > > reality. > > > > > > You may believe it > > > > > > to be true, but you no longer know it to be true. A belief > > may be > > > > > comforting. Only through your own experience, however, does it > > > > become > > > > > liberating. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thinking has become a disease. Disease happens when things > > get out > > > > > of balance. For example, there is nothing wrong with cells > > dividing > > > > > and multiplying in the body, but when this process continues in > > > > > > disregard of the total organism, cells proliferate and we have > > > > > disease. Note: The mind is a superb instrument if used rightly. > > Used > > > > > wrongly, however, it becomes very destructive. To put it more > > > > > accurately, it > > > > > > is not so much that you use your mind wrongly - you usually > > don't > > > > > use it at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > It uses you. This is the disease. You believe that you are > > your > > > > > mind. This > > > > > > is the delusion. The instrument has taken you over. > > > > > > > > > > > > Q: I don't quite agree. It is true that I do a lot of aimless > > > > > > thinking, like most people, but I can still choose to use my > > mind > > > > to > > > > > get and accomplish things, and I do that all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > A: Just because you can solve a crossword puzzle or build an > > atom > > > > > bomb doesn't mean that you use your mind. Just as dogs love to > > chew > > > > > bones, the > > > > > > mind loves to get its teeth into problems. That's why it does > > > > > crossword puzzles and builds atom bombs. You have no interest in > > > > > either. Let me ask you this: can you be free of your mind > > whenever > > > > you > > > > > want to? Have you found the " off " button? > > > > > > > > > > > > Q: You mean stop thinking altogether? No, I can't, except > > maybe > > > > for > > > > > a moment or two. > > > > > > > > > > > > A: Then the mind is using you. You are unconsciously > > identified > > > > > > with it, so you don't even know that you are its slave. It's > > > > almost > > > > > as if you > > > > > > were possessed without knowing it, and so you take the > > possessing > > > > > entity > > > > > > to be yourself. The beginning of freedom is the realization > > that > > > > you > > > > > are not the possessing entity - the thinker. Knowing this > > enables > > > > you > > > > > to observe > > > > > > the entity. The moment you start watching the thinker, a > > higher > > > > > level of consciousness becomes activated. > > > > > > > > > > > > You then begin to realize that there is a vast realm of > > > > intelligence > > > > > beyond thought, that thought is only a tiny aspect of that > > > > > intelligence. You also realize that all the things that truly > > > > matter - > > > > > beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise from beyond > > the > > > > > mind. You begin to awaken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Baloney! > > > > > > > > > > New age pap. > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Tolle needs a good dose of UG....or perhaps a little more > > time > > > > on > > > > > that park bench. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Enlightenment " is the complete annihilation of the one seeking > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Pap " > > > > > > > > -Envy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion is noted. > > > > > > Would you like to discuss what Mr Toole is extolling? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > Read enough about Sri Troll to know that he's not one of my > > favorites, to say the least. > > Don't think that you have more to contribute to what he's got to say, > > let alone being more original than he is. > > > > > > If your present belief structure makes you happy.....you should strive > to keep it intact. > > > toombaru > So compassionately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , " judy " <judyw1941 wrote: > > Read enough about Sri Troll to know that he's not one of my > favorites, to say the least > ----------------------------- > My question is not one of confutation, but one of wanting to understand. Why the need to use the term Sri Troll. I understand that you do not agree with his ideas. I am just curious and would like to understand. I do hope that you understand that I am a beginner and I frequently ask in ignorance. > > Judy > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 It wasn't directed to you Judy, apology. ---- No need for an apology though I appreciate that you would care about my feelings. I thought two things when I read your post/reaction about Tolle where I think you called him Sri Troll. One that maybe this was humor and I don't know enough to catch the humor. Then, I thought maybe this was a reaction to someone expressing a belief that was not in keeping with your own. So I was puzzled. Guess, it isn't all that important, but I got a thing about trying to understand. I do have the bad habit of talking too much and asking too many questions. Judy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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