[AdvaitaToZen] [NonDualPhil] Re I want to sound wise!

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On Oct 28, 2006, at 8:13 AM, Insight wrote:

 

> on 10/28/06 11:05 AM, Pete S at pedsie5 wrote:

>

>

> On Oct 28, 2006, at 7:05 AM, Insight wrote:

>

> P: Well, I don't see what he wrote as a series

> of causally connected or logical propositions.

> I see it more as a list of insights not connected

> by any logical thread, yet each relevant on their

> own merit.

>

> ==================================

>

> P:In this series, the first is the last: That

> 'non-existence is what exist' means

> that the unconscious is the eternal root

> of consciousness, and that the unknown is the

> source of knowing. And that both consciousness

> and knowing are not only the root of dukkha, but

> need dukkha/ bliss to be.

> Consciousness, Awareness, and knowing

> are transitory mirages in the immutable,

> total unknowing.

>

> Joyce: Consciousness/Awareness and

> knowing are " mirages " - what these are

> aware 'of " maybe so but how is Awareness

> a mirage? AC was advocating " giving up

> consciousness/awareness " and you think

> that awareness itself is " the root of the problem "

> and not grasping?

>

> OK. Then how do you 'give up " awareness?

> Who or what is aware of awareness?

 

P: I don't know if Arvind was advocating anything.

I'm, certainly, not. No need to give up awareness,

just to know it as neither existing, nor not existing

is enough, just to know it as transient, and not

constituting a permanent self is enough.

 

Mahamati, listen well and truly reflect upon what I shall say, for I

will instruct you.

Then Mahamati and the other Bodhisattva-Mahasattvas gave devout

attention to the teaching of the Blessed One.

 

Mahamati, since the ignorant and simple-minded, not knowing that the

world is only something seen of the mind itself, cling to the

multitudinousness of external objects, cling to the notion of BEING AND

NON-BEING, oneness and otherness, bothness and not-both-ness, EXISTENCE

AND NON-EXISTENCE, eternity and noneternity, and think that they have a

SELF NATURE OF THEIR OWN, all of which rises from the discriminations

of the mind and is perpetuated by habit-energy, and from which they

are given over to false imagination. It is all like a mirage in which a

spring of water is seen as if it was real.

.......

Sniping of ancient unnecessary repetition.

.......

THEN SAID MAHAMATI to the Blessed One: Why is it that the ignorant are

given up to discrimination and the wise are not?

 

The Blessed One replied: It is because the ignorant cling to names,

signs and ideas; as their minds move along these channels they feed on

multiplicities of objects and fall into the notion of an ego-soul and

what belongs to it; they make discriminations of good and bad among

appearances and cling to the agreeable. As they thus cling there is a

reversion to ignorance, and karma born of greed, anger and folly, is

accumulated. As the accumulation of karma goes on they become

imprisoned in a cocoon of discrimination and are thenceforth unable to

free themselves from the round of birth and death.

 

Because of folly they do not understand that all things are like maya,

like the reflection of the moon in water, that there is no

self-substance to be imagined as an ego-soul and its belongings, and

that all their de finitive ideas rise from their false discriminations

of what exists only as it is seen of the mind itself. They do not

realise that things have nothing to do with qualified and qualifying,

nor with the course of birth, abiding and destruction, and instead they

assert that they are born of a creator, of time, of atoms, of some

celestial spirit. It is because the ignorant are given up to

discrimination that they move along with the stream of appearances, but

it is not so with the wise.

 

The Lankavatara Sutra

>

> NNB

>

>>

>> Arvind wrote:

>>

>>> Non-existence is...

>>> what exists!

>>

>>> ###

>>

>>> consciousness requires division.

>>> consciousness requires two.

>>

>>> ####

>>

>>> consciouness requires pain.

>>> Utter bliss is utter oblivion.

>>

>>> ####

>>

>>> consciousness/knowledge/awareness

>>> is in the root of all pain!

>>

>>> ####

>>

>>> " need to know " , " need to feel " , " need to experience " ,

>>> " need to feel " is...

>>

>>> the birth of 'division'!

>>>

>>> " need to know " is the birth of the " human " !

>>>

>>> " need to know " is the birth of " consciouness " !

>>

>>> ###

>>

>>> " consciouness " [desire to " know " ] is the last desire

>>> to give up!

>>

>>> Once you give up " consciouness " ...

>>> there is nothing more to give...

>>

>>> and, 'no one' left to give

>>> up anything!

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>