Guest guest Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 Rama writes: The reason Ramana practiced self inquiry and advises self enquiry is because the problem is ignorance. Experience does not remove ignorance. It is motivated by ignorance. Only knowledge removes ignorance. And you get knowledge by making an enquiry…or being taught. Everybody starts out chasing experience but the clever ones switch off it at some point and head for knowledge. < http://www.shiningworld.com/Books%20Page\ s/HTML%20Books/Ramana%27s%20Teachings.htm > But, isn't " knowledge " subject to 'memory'???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > > > Rama writes: > > The reason Ramana practiced self > inquiry and advises self enquiry is > because the problem is ignorance. > Experience does not remove ignorance. > It is motivated by ignorance. Only > knowledge removes ignorance. And you > get knowledge by making an enquiry…or > being taught. Everybody starts out > chasing experience but the clever ones > switch off it at some point and head > for knowledge. > > < http://www.shiningworld.com/Books%20Page\ > s/HTML%20Books/Ramana%27s%20Teachings.htm > > > > But, isn't " knowledge " subject to > 'memory'???? > Regarding Yoga Rama writes: The reason yogis do not usually become jnanis is because they have often been confused by the language of Yoga into thinking of enlightenment as a permanent experience of samadhi. So when the experience is 'on' they are not looking to understand anything, they are simply trying to make the state permanent, sahaja. The joke is that enlightenment is not an experience, nor is there any permanent experience. ... .... Anyway, no samadhi is equivalent to enlightenment because samadhis are only states of mind or no mind, no mind being a state of mind. Nirvikapa samadhi is non-dual but unfortunately it is a state that can easily be destroyed. And there is no one there in that state, so when it ends one's ignorance about the nature of one's self is not removed and one experiences limitation once more. Samadhi helps to purify the mind and is a great aid to enquiry but if you remove the mind, how will you make an enquiry? Who will make an enquiry? You make an enquiry with the mind for the mind…so it can shed its ignorance…and no longer trouble you. The mind is a very useful God given instrument. Would God have given a mind if He had intended for you to destroy it? And, in fact, Yoga isn't about killing the mind either because how will you experience a samadhi if you don't have a mind? The mind is the instrument of experience. If you argue that you are aiming at nirvikalpa samadhi where there is no mind, fine, but the problem with nirvikalpa samadhi is that a fly landing on your nose can bring you out of it, not that there is anyone there to come 'out'. And when the 'you' who wasn't there does 'come back,' as I just mentioned, you are just as stupid as you were before… because you were not there in the samadhi to understand that you are the samadhi. If you are the samadhi you will have it all the time because you have you all the time…so there will be no anxiety about making it permanent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > > > Rama writes: > > The reason Ramana practiced self > inquiry and advises self enquiry is > because the problem is ignorance. > Experience does not remove ignorance. > It is motivated by ignorance. Only > knowledge removes ignorance. And you > get knowledge by making an enquiry…or > being taught. Everybody starts out > chasing experience but the clever ones > switch off it at some point and head > for knowledge. > > < http://www.shiningworld.com/Books%20Page\ > s/HTML%20Books/Ramana%27s%20Teachings.htm > > > > But, isn't " knowledge " subject to > 'memory'???? > The reason I ask that is because of this: - As far as I know any " intellectual " knowledge is subject to memory and the knowledge that one gains by reading and understanding text or by listening to lectures is usually intellectual knowledge. - Many " teachers " say that the mind has this 'false knowledge' [of being limited bodymind self] and it is the 'mind' that sees its Reality as unlimited eternal Self and once that happens this false knowledge is removed. But, as we know anything that mind learns is a subject to memory. - I have seen, observed many self-proclaimed as well as 'acknowledged' jnanis get angry, get frustrated, get upset, get stressed, get fearful and worried. And, as far as I have experienced; I can not really get angry, frustrated, and afraid unless I again believe myself to be the limited bodymind self*! Therefore, I have to conclude that in those moments, these 'jnanis' have " forgotten " their " knowledge " of being eternal, unlimited Self! - According to many philosophers, as babies we live without the " false knowledge " of being the limited bodymind self yet, when we grow up; we develop this false knowledge [ignorance] and start living this way. Thus, if " ignorance " can develop once; perhaps, it can develop again; if new found 'knowledge' [of being Self] somehow gets lost. --- *In fact opposite is also true; I have experienced that my tension, stress disappears the moment I fully realize [Again!!!] Self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > > > > Rama writes: > > The reason Ramana practiced self > inquiry and advises self enquiry is > because the problem is ignorance. > Experience does not remove ignorance. > It is motivated by ignorance. Only > knowledge removes ignorance. And you > get knowledge by making an enquiry…or > being taught. Everybody starts out > chasing experience but the clever ones > switch off it at some point and head > for knowledge. > > < http://www.shiningworld.com/Books%20Page\ > s/HTML%20Books/Ramana%27s%20Teachings.htm > > > > But, isn't " knowledge " subject to > 'memory'???? > There is knowledge of the world (other) And there is knowledge of the self (inner) One is cummulative The other is vanishing One is temporal The other is eternal One remembers The other remembers To forget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Rama writes: > > > > The reason Ramana practiced self > > inquiry and advises self enquiry is > > because the problem is ignorance. > > Experience does not remove ignorance. > > It is motivated by ignorance. Only > > knowledge removes ignorance. And you > > get knowledge by making an enquiry…or > > being taught. Everybody starts out > > chasing experience but the clever ones > > switch off it at some point and head > > for knowledge. > > > > < http://www.shiningworld.com/Books%20Page\ > > s/HTML%20Books/Ramana%27s%20Teachings.htm > > > > > > > But, isn't " knowledge " subject to > > 'memory'???? > > > > > > There is knowledge of the world (other) > > And there is knowledge of the self (inner) > > > > One is cummulative > > > The other is vanishing > > > One is temporal > > > > > The other is eternal > > > One remembers > > > > > The other remembers > To forget > just so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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