Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Perception is not possible without a person saying " I am perceiving " . And that " person " is just a collection of thoughts which don't perceive anything at all but are the belief they are perceiving but in´reality that collection of thoughts or if you like, that person, IS perception, IS the knower, is separation. And therefore the perceiver is the perceived, the perceiver is the known. In my understanding perception is not possible without a " knower " which is the past. " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. And here we are again: Consciousness is subjective, personal. It is the past. Cognition always is recognition, to be conscious of something already is the known appearing as consciousness, consciousness is the past. Consciousness is memory, it is a process of constant storing from moment to moment. Without that instant and constant storing one would not be able to understand a single sentence someone else is saying, one would not be able to listen to a symphony of Beethoven, one would not be able to watch a movie as a consctant flow but only see successive single pictures. Consciousness is a constant process of storing, of creating the past. " What is " is the content of conciousness which is the subjective past. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Perception is not possible without a person saying " I am perceiving " . > And that " person " is just a collection of thoughts which don't > perceive anything at all but are the belief they are perceiving but > in´reality that collection of thoughts or if you like, that person, > IS perception, IS the knower, is separation. And therefore the > perceiver is the perceived, the perceiver is the known. > > In my understanding perception is not possible without a " knower " > which is the past. > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > And here we are again: Consciousness is subjective, personal. It is > the past. Cognition always is recognition, to be conscious of > something already is the known appearing as consciousness, > consciousness is the past. Consciousness is memory, it is a process > of constant storing from moment to moment. > > Without that instant and constant storing one would not be able to > understand a single sentence someone else is saying, one would not be > able to listen to a symphony of Beethoven, one would not be able to > watch a movie as a consctant flow but only see successive single > pictures. Consciousness is a constant process of storing, of creating > the past. > > " What is " is the content of conciousness which is the subjective past. > > Werner what if....you leave....one day... all this nice Perceptions....related to who/whatever..? just like you do....during deep sleep.... life is a never ending creation of memories......until the end of times...? i believe that, when once this your describer " knower " is no more........is no more identified with the " perciever & percieved " .... then there is a chance that you get some real peace.... Marc Ps: of course...it don't make much sense i'm writing to you.... reading your statement: " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. or/but could be of better understanding: " Don't trust the perciever " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Perception is not possible without a person saying " I am > perceiving " . > > And that " person " is just a collection of thoughts which don't > > perceive anything at all but are the belief they are perceiving but > > in´reality that collection of thoughts or if you like, that person, > > IS perception, IS the knower, is separation. And therefore the > > perceiver is the perceived, the perceiver is the known. > > > > In my understanding perception is not possible without a " knower " > > which is the past. > > > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > > > And here we are again: Consciousness is subjective, personal. It is > > the past. Cognition always is recognition, to be conscious of > > something already is the known appearing as consciousness, > > consciousness is the past. Consciousness is memory, it is a process > > of constant storing from moment to moment. > > > > Without that instant and constant storing one would not be able to > > understand a single sentence someone else is saying, one would not > be > > able to listen to a symphony of Beethoven, one would not be able to > > watch a movie as a consctant flow but only see successive single > > pictures. Consciousness is a constant process of storing, of > creating > > the past. > > > > " What is " is the content of conciousness which is the subjective > past. > > > > Werner > > > what if....you leave....one day... > > all this nice Perceptions....related to who/whatever..? > just like you do....during deep sleep.... > > > life is a never ending creation of memories......until the end of > times...? > > > i believe that, when once this your describer " knower " is no > more........is no more identified with the " perciever & percieved " .... > > then there is a chance that you get some real peace.... > > > > Marc > > > Ps: of course...it don't make much sense i'm writing to you.... > reading your statement: > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > or/but > could be of better understanding: > > " Don't trust the perciever " > Marc, thanks, you won't believe it but for me it is a real pleasure and benevolence to read some words from you which are not that usual pompous and pathetic superlatives you mostly feel not ashamed to produce here. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Perception is not possible without a person saying " I am > > perceiving " . > > > And that " person " is just a collection of thoughts which don't > > > perceive anything at all but are the belief they are perceiving > but > > > in´reality that collection of thoughts or if you like, that > person, > > > IS perception, IS the knower, is separation. And therefore the > > > perceiver is the perceived, the perceiver is the known. > > > > > > In my understanding perception is not possible without a " knower " > > > which is the past. > > > > > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > > > > > And here we are again: Consciousness is subjective, personal. It > is > > > the past. Cognition always is recognition, to be conscious of > > > something already is the known appearing as consciousness, > > > consciousness is the past. Consciousness is memory, it is a > process > > > of constant storing from moment to moment. > > > > > > Without that instant and constant storing one would not be able > to > > > understand a single sentence someone else is saying, one would > not > > be > > > able to listen to a symphony of Beethoven, one would not be able > to > > > watch a movie as a consctant flow but only see successive single > > > pictures. Consciousness is a constant process of storing, of > > creating > > > the past. > > > > > > " What is " is the content of conciousness which is the subjective > > past. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > what if....you leave....one day... > > > > all this nice Perceptions....related to who/whatever..? > > just like you do....during deep sleep.... > > > > > > life is a never ending creation of memories......until the end of > > times...? > > > > > > i believe that, when once this your describer " knower " is no > > more........is no more identified with the " perciever & percieved " .... > > > > then there is a chance that you get some real peace.... > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > Ps: of course...it don't make much sense i'm writing to you.... > > reading your statement: > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > > > or/but > > could be of better understanding: > > > > " Don't trust the perciever " > > > > > Marc, thanks, > > you won't believe it but for me it is a real pleasure and benevolence > to read some words from you which are not that usual pompous and > pathetic superlatives you mostly feel not ashamed to produce here. > > Werner perceptions.....and perceptions... and perceptions.... which you described ....are related to the perciever.... so, sometimes....your perceptions are related to the percieved only........ and sometimes your perceptions are related to the perciever....only...? sometimes you like the words...and sometimes you don't like.... and each time you don't like.... you feel to take out some " bullets " ...... interesting.... very interesting (nobody, ever, wrote any words in here....except in the dream of life) Marc Ps: i'm not writing in here....to be read... i'm not writing in here....to be understood... i'm not writing in here....to get confusion about the percieved... i'm not writing in here....to declare a war of love....to everybody i'm not writing in here....to have fun on an ego-mind battlefield... i'm writing in here as an expression of en entity.... " coming and going " ..... like everybody else....in consciousness....or unconsciousness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Perception is not possible without a person saying " I am > > > perceiving " . > > > > And that " person " is just a collection of thoughts which don't > > > > perceive anything at all but are the belief they are perceiving > > but > > > > in´reality that collection of thoughts or if you like, that > > person, > > > > IS perception, IS the knower, is separation. And therefore the > > > > perceiver is the perceived, the perceiver is the known. > > > > > > > > In my understanding perception is not possible without > a " knower " > > > > which is the past. > > > > > > > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > > > > > > > And here we are again: Consciousness is subjective, personal. > It > > is > > > > the past. Cognition always is recognition, to be conscious of > > > > something already is the known appearing as consciousness, > > > > consciousness is the past. Consciousness is memory, it is a > > process > > > > of constant storing from moment to moment. > > > > > > > > Without that instant and constant storing one would not be able > > to > > > > understand a single sentence someone else is saying, one would > > not > > > be > > > > able to listen to a symphony of Beethoven, one would not be > able > > to > > > > watch a movie as a consctant flow but only see successive > single > > > > pictures. Consciousness is a constant process of storing, of > > > creating > > > > the past. > > > > > > > > " What is " is the content of conciousness which is the > subjective > > > past. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > what if....you leave....one day... > > > > > > all this nice Perceptions....related to who/whatever..? > > > just like you do....during deep sleep.... > > > > > > > > > life is a never ending creation of memories......until the end of > > > times...? > > > > > > > > > i believe that, when once this your describer " knower " is no > > > more........is no more identified with > the " perciever & percieved " .... > > > > > > then there is a chance that you get some real peace.... > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > Ps: of course...it don't make much sense i'm writing to you.... > > > reading your statement: > > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > > > > > or/but > > > could be of better understanding: > > > > > > " Don't trust the perciever " > > > > > > > > > Marc, thanks, > > > > you won't believe it but for me it is a real pleasure and > benevolence > > to read some words from you which are not that usual pompous and > > pathetic superlatives you mostly feel not ashamed to produce here. > > > > Werner > > > > perceptions.....and > perceptions... > and > > perceptions.... > > which you described ....are related to the perciever.... > > so, sometimes....your perceptions are related to the percieved > only........ > and > sometimes your perceptions are related to the perciever....only...? > > sometimes you like the words...and > sometimes you don't like.... > > > and each time you don't like.... > you feel to take out some " bullets " ...... > > interesting.... > > very > > interesting > > > (nobody, ever, wrote any words in here....except in the dream of life) > > > > Marc > > > Ps: i'm not writing in here....to be read... > i'm not writing in here....to be understood... > i'm not writing in here....to get confusion about the percieved... > i'm not writing in here....to declare a war of love....to everybody > i'm not writing in here....to have fun on an ego-mind battlefield... > > i'm writing in here as an expression of en entity.... " coming and > going " ..... > > like everybody else....in consciousness....or unconsciousness > i think marc and werner are the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Perception is not possible without a person saying " I am > > > > perceiving " . > > > > > And that " person " is just a collection of thoughts which don't > > > > > perceive anything at all but are the belief they are perceiving > > > but > > > > > in´reality that collection of thoughts or if you like, that > > > person, > > > > > IS perception, IS the knower, is separation. And therefore the > > > > > perceiver is the perceived, the perceiver is the known. > > > > > > > > > > In my understanding perception is not possible without > > a " knower " > > > > > which is the past. > > > > > > > > > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > > > > > > > > > And here we are again: Consciousness is subjective, personal. > > It > > > is > > > > > the past. Cognition always is recognition, to be conscious of > > > > > something already is the known appearing as consciousness, > > > > > consciousness is the past. Consciousness is memory, it is a > > > process > > > > > of constant storing from moment to moment. > > > > > > > > > > Without that instant and constant storing one would not be able > > > to > > > > > understand a single sentence someone else is saying, one would > > > not > > > > be > > > > > able to listen to a symphony of Beethoven, one would not be > > able > > > to > > > > > watch a movie as a consctant flow but only see successive > > single > > > > > pictures. Consciousness is a constant process of storing, of > > > > creating > > > > > the past. > > > > > > > > > > " What is " is the content of conciousness which is the > > subjective > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > what if....you leave....one day... > > > > > > > > all this nice Perceptions....related to who/whatever..? > > > > just like you do....during deep sleep.... > > > > > > > > > > > > life is a never ending creation of memories......until the end of > > > > times...? > > > > > > > > > > > > i believe that, when once this your describer " knower " is no > > > > more........is no more identified with > > the " perciever & percieved " .... > > > > > > > > then there is a chance that you get some real peace.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > Ps: of course...it don't make much sense i'm writing to you.... > > > > reading your statement: > > > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > > > > > > > or/but > > > > could be of better understanding: > > > > > > > > " Don't trust the perciever " > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc, thanks, > > > > > > you won't believe it but for me it is a real pleasure and > > benevolence > > > to read some words from you which are not that usual pompous and > > > pathetic superlatives you mostly feel not ashamed to produce here. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > perceptions.....and > > perceptions... > > and > > > > perceptions.... > > > > which you described ....are related to the perciever.... > > > > so, sometimes....your perceptions are related to the percieved > > only........ > > and > > sometimes your perceptions are related to the perciever....only...? > > > > sometimes you like the words...and > > sometimes you don't like.... > > > > > > and each time you don't like.... > > you feel to take out some " bullets " ...... > > > > interesting.... > > > > very > > > > interesting > > > > > > (nobody, ever, wrote any words in here....except in the dream of life) > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > Ps: i'm not writing in here....to be read... > > i'm not writing in here....to be understood... > > i'm not writing in here....to get confusion about the percieved... > > i'm not writing in here....to declare a war of love....to everybody > > i'm not writing in here....to have fun on an ego-mind battlefield... > > > > i'm writing in here as an expression of en entity.... " coming and > > going " ..... > > > > like everybody else....in consciousness....or unconsciousness > > > > i think marc and werner are the same > we are all the same.... don't you think so? or did you already finish with " questions " ? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Perception is not possible without a person saying " I am > > > > > perceiving " . > > > > > > And that " person " is just a collection of thoughts which > don't > > > > > > perceive anything at all but are the belief they are > perceiving > > > > but > > > > > > in´reality that collection of thoughts or if you like, that > > > > person, > > > > > > IS perception, IS the knower, is separation. And therefore > the > > > > > > perceiver is the perceived, the perceiver is the known. > > > > > > > > > > > > In my understanding perception is not possible without > > > a " knower " > > > > > > which is the past. > > > > > > > > > > > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > > > > > > > > > > > And here we are again: Consciousness is subjective, > personal. > > > It > > > > is > > > > > > the past. Cognition always is recognition, to be conscious > of > > > > > > something already is the known appearing as consciousness, > > > > > > consciousness is the past. Consciousness is memory, it is a > > > > process > > > > > > of constant storing from moment to moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > Without that instant and constant storing one would not be > able > > > > to > > > > > > understand a single sentence someone else is saying, one > would > > > > not > > > > > be > > > > > > able to listen to a symphony of Beethoven, one would not be > > > able > > > > to > > > > > > watch a movie as a consctant flow but only see successive > > > single > > > > > > pictures. Consciousness is a constant process of storing, > of > > > > > creating > > > > > > the past. > > > > > > > > > > > > " What is " is the content of conciousness which is the > > > subjective > > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what if....you leave....one day... > > > > > > > > > > all this nice Perceptions....related to who/whatever..? > > > > > just like you do....during deep sleep.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > life is a never ending creation of memories......until the > end of > > > > > times...? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i believe that, when once this your describer " knower " is no > > > > > more........is no more identified with > > > the " perciever & percieved " .... > > > > > > > > > > then there is a chance that you get some real peace.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ps: of course...it don't make much sense i'm writing to > you.... > > > > > reading your statement: > > > > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > > > > > > > > > or/but > > > > > could be of better understanding: > > > > > > > > > > " Don't trust the perciever " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc, thanks, > > > > > > > > you won't believe it but for me it is a real pleasure and > > > benevolence > > > > to read some words from you which are not that usual pompous and > > > > pathetic superlatives you mostly feel not ashamed to produce > here. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > perceptions.....and > > > perceptions... > > > and > > > > > > perceptions.... > > > > > > which you described ....are related to the perciever.... > > > > > > so, sometimes....your perceptions are related to the percieved > > > only........ > > > and > > > sometimes your perceptions are related to the > perciever....only...? > > > > > > sometimes you like the words...and > > > sometimes you don't like.... > > > > > > > > > and each time you don't like.... > > > you feel to take out some " bullets " ...... > > > > > > interesting.... > > > > > > very > > > > > > interesting > > > > > > > > > (nobody, ever, wrote any words in here....except in the dream of > life) > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > Ps: i'm not writing in here....to be read... > > > i'm not writing in here....to be understood... > > > i'm not writing in here....to get confusion about the percieved... > > > i'm not writing in here....to declare a war of love....to > everybody > > > i'm not writing in here....to have fun on an ego-mind > battlefield... > > > > > > i'm writing in here as an expression of en entity.... " coming and > > > going " ..... > > > > > > like everybody else....in consciousness....or unconsciousness > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i think marc and werner are the same > > > > > we are all the same.... > > don't you think so? > > or did you already finish with " questions " ? > > Marc > or? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perception is not possible without a person saying " I am > > > > > > perceiving " . > > > > > > > And that " person " is just a collection of thoughts which > > don't > > > > > > > perceive anything at all but are the belief they are > > perceiving > > > > > but > > > > > > > in´reality that collection of thoughts or if you like, that > > > > > person, > > > > > > > IS perception, IS the knower, is separation. And therefore > > the > > > > > > > perceiver is the perceived, the perceiver is the known. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my understanding perception is not possible without > > > > a " knower " > > > > > > > which is the past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And here we are again: Consciousness is subjective, > > personal. > > > > It > > > > > is > > > > > > > the past. Cognition always is recognition, to be conscious > > of > > > > > > > something already is the known appearing as consciousness, > > > > > > > consciousness is the past. Consciousness is memory, it is a > > > > > process > > > > > > > of constant storing from moment to moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without that instant and constant storing one would not be > > able > > > > > to > > > > > > > understand a single sentence someone else is saying, one > > would > > > > > not > > > > > > be > > > > > > > able to listen to a symphony of Beethoven, one would not be > > > > able > > > > > to > > > > > > > watch a movie as a consctant flow but only see successive > > > > single > > > > > > > pictures. Consciousness is a constant process of storing, > > of > > > > > > creating > > > > > > > the past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " What is " is the content of conciousness which is the > > > > subjective > > > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what if....you leave....one day... > > > > > > > > > > > > all this nice Perceptions....related to who/whatever..? > > > > > > just like you do....during deep sleep.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > life is a never ending creation of memories......until the > > end of > > > > > > times...? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i believe that, when once this your describer " knower " is no > > > > > > more........is no more identified with > > > > the " perciever & percieved " .... > > > > > > > > > > > > then there is a chance that you get some real peace.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ps: of course...it don't make much sense i'm writing to > > you.... > > > > > > reading your statement: > > > > > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > > > > > > > > > > > or/but > > > > > > could be of better understanding: > > > > > > > > > > > > " Don't trust the perciever " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc, thanks, > > > > > > > > > > you won't believe it but for me it is a real pleasure and > > > > benevolence > > > > > to read some words from you which are not that usual pompous and > > > > > pathetic superlatives you mostly feel not ashamed to produce > > here. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perceptions.....and > > > > perceptions... > > > > and > > > > > > > > perceptions.... > > > > > > > > which you described ....are related to the perciever.... > > > > > > > > so, sometimes....your perceptions are related to the percieved > > > > only........ > > > > and > > > > sometimes your perceptions are related to the > > perciever....only...? > > > > > > > > sometimes you like the words...and > > > > sometimes you don't like.... > > > > > > > > > > > > and each time you don't like.... > > > > you feel to take out some " bullets " ...... > > > > > > > > interesting.... > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > interesting > > > > > > > > > > > > (nobody, ever, wrote any words in here....except in the dream of > > life) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > Ps: i'm not writing in here....to be read... > > > > i'm not writing in here....to be understood... > > > > i'm not writing in here....to get confusion about the percieved... > > > > i'm not writing in here....to declare a war of love....to > > everybody > > > > i'm not writing in here....to have fun on an ego-mind > > battlefield... > > > > > > > > i'm writing in here as an expression of en entity.... " coming and > > > > going " ..... > > > > > > > > like everybody else....in consciousness....or unconsciousness > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i think marc and werner are the same > > > > > > > > > we are all the same.... > > > > don't you think so? > > > > or did you already finish with " questions " ? > > > > Marc > > > > > > or? great message congratulations...realy interesting Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perception is not possible without a person saying " I > am > > > > > > > perceiving " . > > > > > > > > And that " person " is just a collection of thoughts > which > > > don't > > > > > > > > perceive anything at all but are the belief they are > > > perceiving > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > in´reality that collection of thoughts or if you like, > that > > > > > > person, > > > > > > > > IS perception, IS the knower, is separation. And > therefore > > > the > > > > > > > > perceiver is the perceived, the perceiver is the known. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my understanding perception is not possible without > > > > > a " knower " > > > > > > > > which is the past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And here we are again: Consciousness is subjective, > > > personal. > > > > > It > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > the past. Cognition always is recognition, to be > conscious > > > of > > > > > > > > something already is the known appearing as > consciousness, > > > > > > > > consciousness is the past. Consciousness is memory, it > is a > > > > > > process > > > > > > > > of constant storing from moment to moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without that instant and constant storing one would not > be > > > able > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > understand a single sentence someone else is saying, > one > > > would > > > > > > not > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > able to listen to a symphony of Beethoven, one would > not be > > > > > able > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > watch a movie as a consctant flow but only see > successive > > > > > single > > > > > > > > pictures. Consciousness is a constant process of > storing, > > > of > > > > > > > creating > > > > > > > > the past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " What is " is the content of conciousness which is the > > > > > subjective > > > > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what if....you leave....one day... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all this nice Perceptions....related to who/whatever..? > > > > > > > just like you do....during deep sleep.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > life is a never ending creation of memories......until > the > > > end of > > > > > > > times...? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i believe that, when once this your describer " knower " is > no > > > > > > > more........is no more identified with > > > > > the " perciever & percieved " .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then there is a chance that you get some real peace.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ps: of course...it don't make much sense i'm writing to > > > you.... > > > > > > > reading your statement: > > > > > > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or/but > > > > > > > could be of better understanding: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Don't trust the perciever " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc, thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > you won't believe it but for me it is a real pleasure and > > > > > benevolence > > > > > > to read some words from you which are not that usual > pompous and > > > > > > pathetic superlatives you mostly feel not ashamed to > produce > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perceptions.....and > > > > > perceptions... > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > perceptions.... > > > > > > > > > > which you described ....are related to the perciever.... > > > > > > > > > > so, sometimes....your perceptions are related to the > percieved > > > > > only........ > > > > > and > > > > > sometimes your perceptions are related to the > > > perciever....only...? > > > > > > > > > > sometimes you like the words...and > > > > > sometimes you don't like.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and each time you don't like.... > > > > > you feel to take out some " bullets " ...... > > > > > > > > > > interesting.... > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > interesting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (nobody, ever, wrote any words in here....except in the dream > of > > > life) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ps: i'm not writing in here....to be read... > > > > > i'm not writing in here....to be understood... > > > > > i'm not writing in here....to get confusion about the > percieved... > > > > > i'm not writing in here....to declare a war of love....to > > > everybody > > > > > i'm not writing in here....to have fun on an ego-mind > > > battlefield... > > > > > > > > > > i'm writing in here as an expression of en entity.... " coming > and > > > > > going " ..... > > > > > > > > > > like everybody else....in consciousness....or unconsciousness > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i think marc and werner are the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > we are all the same.... > > > > > > don't you think so? > > > > > > or did you already finish with " questions " ? > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > or? > > > great message > > congratulations...realy interesting > > Marc > and? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perception is not possible without a person saying " I > > am > > > > > > > > perceiving " . > > > > > > > > > And that " person " is just a collection of thoughts > > which > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > perceive anything at all but are the belief they are > > > > perceiving > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > in´reality that collection of thoughts or if you like, > > that > > > > > > > person, > > > > > > > > > IS perception, IS the knower, is separation. And > > therefore > > > > the > > > > > > > > > perceiver is the perceived, the perceiver is the known. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my understanding perception is not possible without > > > > > > a " knower " > > > > > > > > > which is the past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And here we are again: Consciousness is subjective, > > > > personal. > > > > > > It > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > the past. Cognition always is recognition, to be > > conscious > > > > of > > > > > > > > > something already is the known appearing as > > consciousness, > > > > > > > > > consciousness is the past. Consciousness is memory, it > > is a > > > > > > > process > > > > > > > > > of constant storing from moment to moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without that instant and constant storing one would not > > be > > > > able > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > understand a single sentence someone else is saying, > > one > > > > would > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > able to listen to a symphony of Beethoven, one would > > not be > > > > > > able > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > watch a movie as a consctant flow but only see > > successive > > > > > > single > > > > > > > > > pictures. Consciousness is a constant process of > > storing, > > > > of > > > > > > > > creating > > > > > > > > > the past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " What is " is the content of conciousness which is the > > > > > > subjective > > > > > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what if....you leave....one day... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all this nice Perceptions....related to who/whatever..? > > > > > > > > just like you do....during deep sleep.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > life is a never ending creation of memories......until > > the > > > > end of > > > > > > > > times...? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i believe that, when once this your describer " knower " is > > no > > > > > > > > more........is no more identified with > > > > > > the " perciever & percieved " .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then there is a chance that you get some real peace.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ps: of course...it don't make much sense i'm writing to > > > > you.... > > > > > > > > reading your statement: > > > > > > > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or/but > > > > > > > > could be of better understanding: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Don't trust the perciever " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc, thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you won't believe it but for me it is a real pleasure and > > > > > > benevolence > > > > > > > to read some words from you which are not that usual > > pompous and > > > > > > > pathetic superlatives you mostly feel not ashamed to > > produce > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perceptions.....and > > > > > > perceptions... > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > perceptions.... > > > > > > > > > > > > which you described ....are related to the perciever.... > > > > > > > > > > > > so, sometimes....your perceptions are related to the > > percieved > > > > > > only........ > > > > > > and > > > > > > sometimes your perceptions are related to the > > > > perciever....only...? > > > > > > > > > > > > sometimes you like the words...and > > > > > > sometimes you don't like.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and each time you don't like.... > > > > > > you feel to take out some " bullets " ...... > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting.... > > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (nobody, ever, wrote any words in here....except in the dream > > of > > > > life) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ps: i'm not writing in here....to be read... > > > > > > i'm not writing in here....to be understood... > > > > > > i'm not writing in here....to get confusion about the > > percieved... > > > > > > i'm not writing in here....to declare a war of love....to > > > > everybody > > > > > > i'm not writing in here....to have fun on an ego-mind > > > > battlefield... > > > > > > > > > > > > i'm writing in here as an expression of en entity.... " coming > > and > > > > > > going " ..... > > > > > > > > > > > > like everybody else....in consciousness....or unconsciousness > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i think marc and werner are the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we are all the same.... > > > > > > > > don't you think so? > > > > > > > > or did you already finish with " questions " ? > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or? > > > > > > great message > > > > congratulations...realy interesting > > > > Marc > > > > > > and? you are out of poems... again? words are missing? mind got tired? Marc Ps: i think you must like this waste of space%time.... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 > > Without that instant and constant storing one would not be able to > understand a single sentence someone else is saying, one would not be > able to listen to a symphony of Beethoven, one would not be able to > watch a movie as a consctant flow but only see successive single > pictures. Consciousness is a constant process of storing, of creating > the past. for a period of time I have been pretending to be able to do such things, now i feel i can be honest: I never got it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba wrote: > > > > > > Without that instant and constant storing one would not be able to > > understand a single sentence someone else is saying, one would not > be > > able to listen to a symphony of Beethoven, one would not be able to > > watch a movie as a consctant flow but only see successive single > > pictures. Consciousness is a constant process of storing, of > creating > > the past. > > for a period of time I have been pretending to be able to do such > things, now i feel i can be honest: I never got it! > Hi Big, Not very clear what you meant. To be able of doing what ? And what have you got ? Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > > > > > > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perception is not possible without a person > saying " I > > > am > > > > > > > > > perceiving " . > > > > > > > > > > And that " person " is just a collection of thoughts > > > which > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > perceive anything at all but are the belief they > are > > > > > perceiving > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > in´reality that collection of thoughts or if you > like, > > > that > > > > > > > > person, > > > > > > > > > > IS perception, IS the knower, is separation. And > > > therefore > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > perceiver is the perceived, the perceiver is the > known. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my understanding perception is not possible > without > > > > > > > a " knower " > > > > > > > > > > which is the past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And here we are again: Consciousness is subjective, > > > > > personal. > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > the past. Cognition always is recognition, to be > > > conscious > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > something already is the known appearing as > > > consciousness, > > > > > > > > > > consciousness is the past. Consciousness is memory, > it > > > is a > > > > > > > > process > > > > > > > > > > of constant storing from moment to moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without that instant and constant storing one would > not > > > be > > > > > able > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > understand a single sentence someone else is > saying, > > > one > > > > > would > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > able to listen to a symphony of Beethoven, one > would > > > not be > > > > > > > able > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > watch a movie as a consctant flow but only see > > > successive > > > > > > > single > > > > > > > > > > pictures. Consciousness is a constant process of > > > storing, > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > creating > > > > > > > > > > the past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " What is " is the content of conciousness which is > the > > > > > > > subjective > > > > > > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what if....you leave....one day... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all this nice Perceptions....related to > who/whatever..? > > > > > > > > > just like you do....during deep sleep.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > life is a never ending creation of > memories......until > > > the > > > > > end of > > > > > > > > > times...? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i believe that, when once this your > describer " knower " is > > > no > > > > > > > > > more........is no more identified with > > > > > > > the " perciever & percieved " .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then there is a chance that you get some real > peace.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ps: of course...it don't make much sense i'm writing > to > > > > > you.... > > > > > > > > > reading your statement: > > > > > > > > > " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or/but > > > > > > > > > could be of better understanding: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Don't trust the perciever " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc, thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you won't believe it but for me it is a real pleasure > and > > > > > > > benevolence > > > > > > > > to read some words from you which are not that usual > > > pompous and > > > > > > > > pathetic superlatives you mostly feel not ashamed to > > > produce > > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perceptions.....and > > > > > > > perceptions... > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perceptions.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which you described ....are related to the perciever.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so, sometimes....your perceptions are related to the > > > percieved > > > > > > > only........ > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > sometimes your perceptions are related to the > > > > > perciever....only...? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sometimes you like the words...and > > > > > > > sometimes you don't like.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and each time you don't like.... > > > > > > > you feel to take out some " bullets " ...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (nobody, ever, wrote any words in here....except in the > dream > > > of > > > > > life) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ps: i'm not writing in here....to be read... > > > > > > > i'm not writing in here....to be understood... > > > > > > > i'm not writing in here....to get confusion about the > > > percieved... > > > > > > > i'm not writing in here....to declare a war of love....to > > > > > everybody > > > > > > > i'm not writing in here....to have fun on an ego-mind > > > > > battlefield... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i'm writing in here as an expression of en > entity.... " coming > > > and > > > > > > > going " ..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like everybody else....in consciousness....or > unconsciousness > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i think marc and werner are the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we are all the same.... > > > > > > > > > > don't you think so? > > > > > > > > > > or did you already finish with " questions " ? > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or? > > > > > > > > > great message > > > > > > congratulations...realy interesting > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > and? > > > you are out of poems... again? > > > > > > > words are missing? > > > > > > > > > mind got tired? > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ps: i think you must like this waste of space%time.... > > > > > yes let's by all means: be economical Marc, spelled forwards is Cram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 " " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. " I'm assuming J.K. = Jiddu Krishnamurti. Could someone kindly give me a reference to where I could find this quote of his? Want to start your own business? Learn how on Small Business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , FirstName LastName <penicillin_tree wrote: > > " " Don't trust perception " , said J.K. " > > I'm assuming J.K. = Jiddu Krishnamurti. Could someone kindly give me a reference to where I could find this quote of his? > > Hi pt, Yes, J.K. meant Jiddu Krishnamurti. In the meantime I tried to find the quote where he expressed it but I couldn't find it yet. It was posted by a member of the J_Krishnamurti forum. Werner > > Want to start your own business? Learn how on Small Business. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 AH, sorry I knew it! it is because of this barbarian language used here no way of communicate it,mm! Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Without that instant and constant storing one would not be able to > > > understand a single sentence someone else is saying, one would not > > be > > > able to listen to a symphony of Beethoven, one would not be able to > > > watch a movie as a consctant flow but only see successive single > > > pictures. Consciousness is a constant process of storing, of > > creating > > > the past. > > > > for a period of time I have been pretending to be able to do such > > things, now i feel i can be honest: I never got it! > > > > > Hi Big, > > Not very clear what you meant. To be able of doing what ? And what have > you got ? > > Werner > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba wrote: > > AH, sorry I knew it! > it is because of this barbarian language used here > > no way of communicate it,mm! > > Fine, Big, At least YOU knew it, and you can't share it because of that barbarian lnaguage used here. But now you made me curious, what please is a non-barbarian language ? Werner > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without that instant and constant storing one would not be able > to > > > > understand a single sentence someone else is saying, one would > not > > > be > > > > able to listen to a symphony of Beethoven, one would not be > able to > > > > watch a movie as a consctant flow but only see successive > single > > > > pictures. Consciousness is a constant process of storing, of > > > creating > > > > the past. > > > > > > for a period of time I have been pretending to be able to do such > > > things, now i feel i can be honest: I never got it! > > > > > > > > > Hi Big, > > > > Not very clear what you meant. To be able of doing what ? And what > have > > you got ? > > > > Werner > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 ....could it be possibly be the language of a silent heart? Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote: > > > > AH, sorry I knew it! > > it is because of this barbarian language used here > > > > no way of communicate it,mm! > > > > > > Fine, Big, > > At least YOU knew it, and you can't share it because of that > barbarian lnaguage used here. > > But now you made me curious, what please is a non-barbarian language ? > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without that instant and constant storing one would not be > able > > to > > > > > understand a single sentence someone else is saying, one > would > > not > > > > be > > > > > able to listen to a symphony of Beethoven, one would not be > > able to > > > > > watch a movie as a consctant flow but only see successive > > single > > > > > pictures. Consciousness is a constant process of storing, of > > > > creating > > > > > the past. > > > > > > > > for a period of time I have been pretending to be able to do > such > > > > things, now i feel i can be honest: I never got it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Big, > > > > > > Not very clear what you meant. To be able of doing what ? And > what > > have > > > you got ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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