Guest guest Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 We have a flower, as an idea, and as such it exists in our mind, and is a human thing. But there are other animals that also see this *thing*, in other words the mind of the animal can differentiate this *flower* from the surrounding environment. For example a horse may see it and eat it, a bee or some other insect may be attracted to it. No word or thought is is involved, just a perception. Therefore it is there, outside of the human mind, and will set in motion instincts in the creature that sees it (eat, lick, avoid, etc). I don't know whether instinctual perception constitutes some form of primitve concept or not. Perhaps in some creatures, such as apes and dolphins, but not sure. What I do know is that the flower will appear different to different creatures. For example, a bee is going to see it very differently than a horse will; and, I suppose the boundary of the flower will be different to different observers also. A bee will probably *see* just the part in bloom, for a human, it includes the root system etc. So, the flower exists in this sense. Questions....does it exist as an absolute object, as in Plato's ideal? Or does it exist only as relative thing, according to how it is perceived by an observer? Does a thing exist if there is no observer to observer it? Perhaps, since a flower must have some primitive form of awareness..but it would not be self-aware, so again it has no boundaries, no form. Who are we to impose those boundaries on a flower? Plant consciousness. What would that be like? Impossible to imagine, but I think certainly that plant consciousness is different to hat consciousness. Can this difference account for the intrinsic difference between these two things? I would say that plant consciousness is differentiated to some degree, at least cellular, while a hat is bascially atomic level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , " jasondedonno " <jasondedonno wrote: > > We have a flower, as an idea, and as such it exists in our mind, and > is a human thing. But there are other animals that also see this > *thing*, in other words the mind of the animal can differentiate > this *flower* from the surrounding environment. For example a horse > may see it and eat it, a bee or some other insect may be attracted > to it. No word or thought is is involved, just a perception. > Therefore it is there, outside of the human mind, and will set in > motion instincts in the creature that sees it (eat, lick, avoid, > etc). I don't know whether instinctual perception constitutes some > form of primitve concept or not. Perhaps in some creatures, such as > apes and dolphins, but not sure. > > What I do know is that the flower will appear different to different > creatures. For example, a bee is going to see it very differently > than a horse will; and, I suppose the boundary of the flower will be > different to different observers also. A bee will probably *see* > just the part in bloom, for a human, it includes the root system > etc. So, the flower exists in this sense. Questions....does it > exist as an absolute object, as in Plato's ideal? Or does it exist > only as relative thing, according to how it is perceived by an > observer? Does a thing exist if there is no observer to observer it? > Perhaps, since a flower must have some primitive form of > awareness..but it would not be self-aware, so again it has no > boundaries, no form. Who are we to impose those boundaries on a > flower? > > Plant consciousness. What would that be like? Impossible to imagine, > but I think certainly that plant consciousness is different to hat > consciousness. Can this difference account for the intrinsic > difference between these two things? I would say that plant > consciousness is differentiated to some degree, at least cellular, > while a hat is bascially atomic level. > Whatabout smell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 > Whatabout smell? Smell, sight, whatever...it's all sesnory information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Nisargadatta , Pedsie2 wrote: > > Like a premonition in the fog > Unseen, the murmur of the sea > A seagull flew above and was gone > A foghorn cried hoarse with distance > I shivered in the dampness, the mystery of things. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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