Eating meat for some and others No.

November 28, 2006

BEING A VEGETARIAN and AHIMSA.

This is written not to condemn meat eaters but more to explain why

some are vegetarians. (Sometime back I heard on the news, that the

U.K. had banned experiments on animals for cosmetics reasons. They

have also banned some medical experiments that are considered

unnecessary, especially those that are just done for money, like

unnecessary research. At least that is a start!

However my pleasure was short lived, for whilst channel surfing, I

came across a piece on T.V. that made me sit up. It was about a

system where they can take a fish, partially gut it, scale it, dip it

in batter and fry part of it, whilst all the time keeping it ALIVE!I

t was then served up on the table with sauce, whilst the eating

parties dug in with chopsticks. The family's children ran from the

table for the fish was obviously alive and suffering, opening and

closing its mouth. Or we have the skinning of seal cubs while still

alive, the boiling of shell-fish while still alive and many other

violent acts. This doesn't include the horrors of the slaughterhouses.

All violence of any kind should be avoided except for self defence.

That means in thought, word, and deed .Even making too much noise

should be avoided. Humans are human animals ,aspiring human beings,

human beings, and Divine Humans. Intelligence has nothing to do with

it. For it has to do with the level of awareness and purification of

the awareness sheath or vijnanamayakosa. A completely purified

vijnanamayakosa is the sheath that a Jnani uses to relate to the

world. To the human animal eating meat is probably part of it's self

developed condition .For spiritual seekers though, aspiring human

beings, eating meat is a no-no and that includes fish. Swami

Yogananda did say however that unfertilised eggs are alright to eat,

if you really have to, free range that is. Ghandiji did eat eggs,

when he was ill. Wearing leather is again debatable, for if the

animal died for food the leather is something superflous. On the

other hand fur is different, for the animal is killed for its skin

alone. It is all in the motive, it is in the mind. We can only do the

best we can and most like to do things gradually rather than not at

all.

Vegetarianism for Spiritual Seekers is not primarily for reasons of

health but for Spirituality. It is really a belief in Ahimsa or non-

violence that is the motivating cause.

For example eating meat means accepting blame and bad Karma, probably

for many lifetimes, for killing an animal and the associated

suffering. It is not our Dharma to eat meat and we have caused pain

and terror to the animal. Also we have sent billions of animals to

the subtle plane. Many of these animals are reincarnated as humans

and carry with them the resentment of their treatment and death in

the slaughterhouses. This adds to bad vibrations on the planet and

subsequent massacres and killings, as in Ruanda etc. Violence can be

intrinsic, like banging a book down on a table, cutting down trees un-

necessarily or even thinking bad thoughts.

Meat eating is a habit like smoking, drug addiction or alcoholism and

it can be broken the same way; Pray, surrender to The Divine and

stop. Some people may have to do it progressively; however this may

only prolong the bad karma involved.

The advantages of being a vegetarian are many, apart from the effect

on our health. When we eat meat we absorb animal vibrations into our

own mind and body, making it more difficult to advance spiritually.

Many argue that we need meat for proteins. The humble soya can supply

most dietary needs contained in meat. It takes 4 kg of fish meal to

produce every 1 kg of farmed salmon. Also it takes 8kg of grain to

produce 1/2kg of beef; a waste of food resources on a hungry

planet .At the present time 3%-6% of North Americans and 15% of

British are vegetarians. The Indian percentage would be much higher

no doubt.

Meat eating leads to rajasic and tamasic tendencies but a sathwic

diet consisting of vegetables, except not too many, onions, garlic

chillies etc, will be conducive to a peaceful mind.

As Dr. Albert Schweitzer tells us:

" I cannot but have reverence for all that is called life. I cannot

avoid compassion for everything that is called life. That is the

beginning of morality. Once a man has experienced it and continues to

do so he/she is ethical. He carries morality within him/her and can

never lose it, for it continues to develop within him. He who has

never experienced this has only a set of superficial principles.

These theories have no root in him, they do not belong to him, and

they fall off him......Reverence for life comprises the whole ethic

of love in its deepest and highest sense. It is the source of

constant renewal for the individual and for mankind.(Respect for life

is compassion, which is a prerequisite for understanding.)

(Scheitzer pp 116-177) (1)

Ghandiji said; " Cow protection is to me one of the most wonderful

phenomena in human evolution. It takes the human being beyond his

species. The cow to me means the entire subhuman world. Man through

the cow is enjoined to realise his identity with all that lives...She

is the mother to millions of Indian (and others), mankind. " TO MY

MIND THE LIFE OF A LAMB IS NO LESS PRECIOUS THAN THAT OF A HUMAN

BEING. " -GANDHIJI

We should cultivate certain desirable practices. For instance we

should regulate our diet, because one's food influences one's

thoughts. Eating animal food promotes animal tendencies. Those who

take to the spiritual path should avoid as much as possible bad

practices. There is no meaning in professing to respect human values

without observing the rule that you should cause NO HARM to others in

any form whatsoever. "

..

" And God said, Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed, which

is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the

fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for MEAT! " Genesis

1:29. Many terms in the Bible have been mistranslated, for whatever

reason. The word food has been translated as meat and as flesh even,

this is to give the impression that Jesus was a meat eater. It's

interesting that in Scotland today the word meat can mean food

generally, not just animal flesh. Also the word for wine mostly means

unfermented grape-juice, or Must, which was what the Essenes used

" Thou shall not kill " ....Bible, Ten Commandments. lo tirtzach—not

kill anything.

" He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man " .....Isaiah 66:3

The first of Buddhism's Ten Precepts is, " Refrain from destroying

life. "

The Mahabharata, warns " Those who kill and eat cows will rot in hell

for as many years as there are hairs on the slaughtered

cow, " and " What greater cruelty and selfishness than to increase the

flesh of one's body by eating the flesh of innocent creatures? "

I don't know whether you can take the Mahabharata literally but the

inference is there.

If one can grasp that " all is one " , then harming a being that can

feel pain is harming oneself. As seekers on the spiritual path, we

should avoid being responsible for other's pain, animal or not.

.. On another note, what kind of insensitivity and lack of conscious

awareness, or rather conscience, allows an animal to suffer for an

unholy human desire, that one hasn't the courage or willpower to

overcome. One is reduced to a state less than the animal, for even an

animal keeps it's desires in season. This was my thought about myself

and I couldn't live with that, and that is why, after reading

Maxims, " in the back of a book on Hindu Spirituality, " I became a

vegetarian immediately. Sakti also gave me a dream, where I

experienced being a cow that was led to slaughter.

The morning that I gave up eating meat I had a dream that was the

catalyst. I was visiting some family members in Sydney and I was on

Bondi Beach, I like surfing. I ate a hamburger and then fell asleep

on the beach during which time, I was given a dream. In this dream I

was actually a cow or steer or whatever, bovine anyway.

I was in the slaughterhouse, and was terrified by the cries of the

other animals waiting to go up before the human killer. The stench

of blood and faeces assailed by rather large nostrils and my eyes

rolled in utter panic and fear in my head. I looked around for

someone I knew but I was alone amongst all these terrified

animals.My panic grew as I was forced between a row of gates and

down a slippy path full of blood, faeces and urine. I hesitated and

was prodded with an electric prod to make me move forward into this

tight space. Eventually I was in a kind of giant manacle which held

my head for the human killer. I was terrified and so were all the

other cattle for we knew, yes we knew.

At his point I awoke on the beach repeating 'My God they know', they

know they are going to be killed so cruelly. At that point I

resolved never to be an accomplice to the greatest holocaust of all

time, and I became a vegetarian. I'm a slow learner you see!!

There are no excuses or alibis, religious or otherwise,

for " spiritual seekers, " to be meat eaters; it is also injurious to

health, check out " mad cow disease or hamburger disease, or chicken

flu. If you eat meat you will get animal diseases. "

However as a last note, if one is a vegetarian one shouldn't be smug

about our meat eating brother or sister. I am not claiming to be a

superior being and no doubt have as many desires as the next person.

However I have overcome eating meat with Sakti's Grace. You can too,

if you are still a meat-eater. However you must have the belief and

desire to do so, many people see nothing wrong at all in eating meat,

it is their choice.

" Ananyaaschinthayantho Maam Ye Janaah Paryupaasathe Theshaam

Nithyaabhiyukthaanaam Yogakshemam Vahamyaham. "

" Whoever surrenders to The Lord, The Lord will take on his/her

yogakshemam and provide for him/her. " The Gita.9:22.

"

,

" The great sage Yagnavalkya ,in his Yagnavalkyasmiti stated that

three ghastly crimes are committed by slaughtering animals for the

sake of eating their flesh.

These are :

(1)the taking of innocent life;

(2)the infliction of pain on the innocent animal during the process

of killing it;and

(3)the crime of depriving the animal of its strength through

slaughtering it.

Punishment for all three crimes entails twenty rebirths

characterised by premature and painful death in the first;

pain ,suffering and unhappiness,including family feuds,anxiety and

tensions in the second;

poor health in which the life of the person concerned will be wasted

away,in the third. "

INDIRA RADHAN. MAY 1996.

Many people don't realise the consequences of eating meat. I don't

know whether we can take the above literally but there are karmic

consequences, and if one doesn't learn from them one is condemned to

relive them until one wakes up.

Sages can read what we cannot and I strongly believe the dream I had

on the beach was from the vibrations and memory left in that

particular meat. I had been meditation for almost a year so it was

easier for it to manifest. I realise that I have karma to pay from

the time that I was eating meat and the only way to escape it is

through Moksha.....then only the body will suffer it.

1) Taken from Vic Sussman " The Vegetarian Alternative " , Rodale

Press, Emmaus Pa.1978

November 29, 2006

Namaste Tony,

I am well aware of your vegetarian/ahimsa practices. I have already

told my story: I gave up meat on two separate occasions and the

reasons I did and the reason why I gave up giving up.

Have you considered that there is a certain 'harm' in bringing your

beliefs to the forefront to folks who have tried and tried,

unsuccessfully to give up meat, for any number of reasons?

There is NOTHING in this world that is of itself harmless except the

practice of a constant vigilance and realization of the non-duality

of life, which is harmlessness/love/compassion in/of/by and as

itself.

Remember harmony contains " harm " .

Metta,

Anna

Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery

wrote:

>

> BEING A VEGETARIAN and AHIMSA.

>

> This is written not to condemn meat eaters but more to explain why

> some are vegetarians. (Sometime back I heard on the news, that the

> U.K. had banned experiments on animals for cosmetics reasons.

They

> have also banned some medical experiments that are considered

> unnecessary, especially those that are just done for money, like

> unnecessary research. At least that is a start!

>

> However my pleasure was short lived, for whilst channel surfing, I

> came across a piece on T.V. that made me sit up. It was about a

> system where they can take a fish, partially gut it, scale it, dip

it

> in batter and fry part of it, whilst all the time keeping it ALIVE!

I

> t was then served up on the table with sauce, whilst the eating

> parties dug in with chopsticks. The family's children ran from the

> table for the fish was obviously alive and suffering, opening and

> closing its mouth. Or we have the skinning of seal cubs while

still

> alive, the boiling of shell-fish while still alive and many other

> violent acts. This doesn't include the horrors of the

slaughterhouses.

>

> All violence of any kind should be avoided except for self

defence.

> That means in thought, word, and deed .Even making too much noise

> should be avoided. Humans are human animals ,aspiring human

beings,

> human beings, and Divine Humans. Intelligence has nothing to do

with

> it. For it has to do with the level of awareness and purification

of

> the awareness sheath or vijnanamayakosa. A completely purified

> vijnanamayakosa is the sheath that a Jnani uses to relate to the

> world. To the human animal eating meat is probably part of it's

self

> developed condition .For spiritual seekers though, aspiring human

> beings, eating meat is a no-no and that includes fish. Swami

> Yogananda did say however that unfertilised eggs are alright to

eat,

> if you really have to, free range that is. Ghandiji did eat eggs,

> when he was ill. Wearing leather is again debatable, for if the

> animal died for food the leather is something superflous. On the

> other hand fur is different, for the animal is killed for its skin

> alone. It is all in the motive, it is in the mind. We can only do

the

> best we can and most like to do things gradually rather than not

at

> all.

>

> Vegetarianism for Spiritual Seekers is not primarily for reasons

of

> health but for Spirituality. It is really a belief in Ahimsa or

non-

> violence that is the motivating cause.

>

> For example eating meat means accepting blame and bad Karma,

probably

> for many lifetimes, for killing an animal and the associated

> suffering. It is not our Dharma to eat meat and we have caused

pain

> and terror to the animal. Also we have sent billions of animals to

> the subtle plane. Many of these animals are reincarnated as humans

> and carry with them the resentment of their treatment and death in

> the slaughterhouses. This adds to bad vibrations on the planet and

> subsequent massacres and killings, as in Ruanda etc. Violence can

be

> intrinsic, like banging a book down on a table, cutting down trees

un-

> necessarily or even thinking bad thoughts.

>

> Meat eating is a habit like smoking, drug addiction or alcoholism

and

> it can be broken the same way; Pray, surrender to The Divine and

> stop. Some people may have to do it progressively; however this

may

> only prolong the bad karma involved.

>

> The advantages of being a vegetarian are many, apart from the

effect

> on our health. When we eat meat we absorb animal vibrations into

our

> own mind and body, making it more difficult to advance spiritually.

>

> Many argue that we need meat for proteins. The humble soya can

supply

> most dietary needs contained in meat. It takes 4 kg of fish meal

to

> produce every 1 kg of farmed salmon. Also it takes 8kg of grain to

> produce 1/2kg of beef; a waste of food resources on a hungry

> planet .At the present time 3%-6% of North Americans and 15% of

> British are vegetarians. The Indian percentage would be much

higher

> no doubt.

>

> Meat eating leads to rajasic and tamasic tendencies but a sathwic

> diet consisting of vegetables, except not too many, onions, garlic

> chillies etc, will be conducive to a peaceful mind.

>

> As Dr. Albert Schweitzer tells us:

>

> " I cannot but have reverence for all that is called life. I cannot

> avoid compassion for everything that is called life. That is the

> beginning of morality. Once a man has experienced it and continues

to

> do so he/she is ethical. He carries morality within him/her and

can

> never lose it, for it continues to develop within him. He who has

> never experienced this has only a set of superficial principles.

>

> These theories have no root in him, they do not belong to him, and

> they fall off him......Reverence for life comprises the whole

ethic

> of love in its deepest and highest sense. It is the source of

> constant renewal for the individual and for mankind.(Respect for

life

> is compassion, which is a prerequisite for understanding.)

>

> (Scheitzer pp 116-177) (1)

>

> Ghandiji said; " Cow protection is to me one of the most wonderful

> phenomena in human evolution. It takes the human being beyond his

> species. The cow to me means the entire subhuman world. Man

through

> the cow is enjoined to realise his identity with all that

lives...She

> is the mother to millions of Indian (and others), mankind. " TO MY

> MIND THE LIFE OF A LAMB IS NO LESS PRECIOUS THAN THAT OF A HUMAN

> BEING. " -GANDHIJI

>

> We should cultivate certain desirable practices. For instance we

> should regulate our diet, because one's food influences one's

> thoughts. Eating animal food promotes animal tendencies. Those who

> take to the spiritual path should avoid as much as possible bad

> practices. There is no meaning in professing to respect human

values

> without observing the rule that you should cause NO HARM to others

in

> any form whatsoever. "

>

> .

>

> " And God said, Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed,

which

> is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the

> fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for MEAT! "

Genesis

> 1:29. Many terms in the Bible have been mistranslated, for

whatever

> reason. The word food has been translated as meat and as flesh

even,

> this is to give the impression that Jesus was a meat eater. It's

> interesting that in Scotland today the word meat can mean food

> generally, not just animal flesh. Also the word for wine mostly

means

> unfermented grape-juice, or Must, which was what the Essenes used

>

> " Thou shall not kill " ....Bible, Ten Commandments. lo tirtzach—not

> kill anything.

>

> " He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man " .....Isaiah 66:3

>

> The first of Buddhism's Ten Precepts is, " Refrain from destroying

> life. "

>

> The Mahabharata, warns " Those who kill and eat cows will rot in

hell

> for as many years as there are hairs on the slaughtered

> cow, " and " What greater cruelty and selfishness than to increase

the

> flesh of one's body by eating the flesh of innocent creatures? "

>

> I don't know whether you can take the Mahabharata literally but

the

> inference is there.

>

> If one can grasp that " all is one " , then harming a being that can

> feel pain is harming oneself. As seekers on the spiritual path, we

> should avoid being responsible for other's pain, animal or not.

>

> . On another note, what kind of insensitivity and lack of

conscious

> awareness, or rather conscience, allows an animal to suffer for an

> unholy human desire, that one hasn't the courage or willpower to

> overcome. One is reduced to a state less than the animal, for even

an

> animal keeps it's desires in season. This was my thought about

myself

> and I couldn't live with that, and that is why, after reading

> Maxims, " in the back of a book on Hindu Spirituality, " I became a

> vegetarian immediately. Sakti also gave me a dream, where I

> experienced being a cow that was led to slaughter.

>

> The morning that I gave up eating meat I had a dream that was the

> catalyst. I was visiting some family members in Sydney and I was on

> Bondi Beach, I like surfing. I ate a hamburger and then fell

asleep

> on the beach during which time, I was given a dream. In this

dream I

> was actually a cow or steer or whatever, bovine anyway.

> I was in the slaughterhouse, and was terrified by the cries of the

> other animals waiting to go up before the human killer. The

stench

> of blood and faeces assailed by rather large nostrils and my eyes

> rolled in utter panic and fear in my head. I looked around for

> someone I knew but I was alone amongst all these terrified

> animals.My panic grew as I was forced between a row of gates and

> down a slippy path full of blood, faeces and urine. I hesitated

and

> was prodded with an electric prod to make me move forward into

this

> tight space. Eventually I was in a kind of giant manacle which

held

> my head for the human killer. I was terrified and so were all the

> other cattle for we knew, yes we knew.

> At his point I awoke on the beach repeating 'My God they know',

they

> know they are going to be killed so cruelly. At that point I

> resolved never to be an accomplice to the greatest holocaust of

all

> time, and I became a vegetarian. I'm a slow learner you see!!

> There are no excuses or alibis, religious or otherwise,

> for " spiritual seekers, " to be meat eaters; it is also injurious

to

> health, check out " mad cow disease or hamburger disease, or

chicken

> flu. If you eat meat you will get animal diseases. "

>

> However as a last note, if one is a vegetarian one shouldn't be

smug

> about our meat eating brother or sister. I am not claiming to be a

> superior being and no doubt have as many desires as the next

person.

> However I have overcome eating meat with Sakti's Grace. You can

too,

> if you are still a meat-eater. However you must have the belief

and

> desire to do so, many people see nothing wrong at all in eating

meat,

> it is their choice.

>

> " Ananyaaschinthayantho Maam Ye Janaah Paryupaasathe Theshaam

> Nithyaabhiyukthaanaam Yogakshemam Vahamyaham. "

>

> " Whoever surrenders to The Lord, The Lord will take on his/her

> yogakshemam and provide for him/her. " The Gita.9:22.

>

> "

>

> ,

> " The great sage Yagnavalkya ,in his Yagnavalkyasmiti stated that

> three ghastly crimes are committed by slaughtering animals for the

> sake of eating their flesh.

>

> These are :

> (1)the taking of innocent life;

>

> (2)the infliction of pain on the innocent animal during the process

> of killing it;and

>

> (3)the crime of depriving the animal of its strength through

> slaughtering it.

>

> Punishment for all three crimes entails twenty rebirths

> characterised by premature and painful death in the first;

>

> pain ,suffering and unhappiness,including family feuds,anxiety and

> tensions in the second;

>

> poor health in which the life of the person concerned will be

wasted

> away,in the third. "

>

> INDIRA RADHAN. MAY 1996.

>

> Many people don't realise the consequences of eating meat. I don't

> know whether we can take the above literally but there are karmic

> consequences, and if one doesn't learn from them one is condemned

to

> relive them until one wakes up.

>

> Sages can read what we cannot and I strongly believe the dream I

had

> on the beach was from the vibrations and memory left in that

> particular meat. I had been meditation for almost a year so it was

> easier for it to manifest. I realise that I have karma to pay from

> the time that I was eating meat and the only way to escape it is

> through Moksha.....then only the body will suffer it.

>

> 1) Taken from Vic Sussman " The Vegetarian Alternative " , Rodale

> Press, Emmaus Pa.1978

>

November 29, 2006

In My White Light

There is an infinite beauty

Absolute freedom

Immense patience

Found

In both " good " and " evil "

Violence and non-violence

Contempt and compassion

Views on karma

In My White Light

Are a form of attachment

My Pure White Light

Has no such attachments

Scientifically, however,

Soy has been found to cause cancer. See

www.thewholesoystory.com/

As one may believe that punishment is part of the cosmic order, so,

then, one may believe in the same cruelty that one, at the same time,

condemns.

Those who fail to see the above hypocricy, seem to me to be very

attached to something, whether it be life, or compassion, or

retribution, or guru, or scripture, or whatever.

My White Light says that

" Let go, " really, really means let go of every: every attachment.

But it also says,

don't be attached to this either.

Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote:

>

> BEING A VEGETARIAN and AHIMSA.

>

> This is written not to condemn meat eaters but more to explain why

> some are vegetarians. (Sometime back I heard on the news, that the

> U.K. had banned experiments on animals for cosmetics reasons. They

> have also banned some medical experiments that are considered

> unnecessary, especially those that are just done for money, like

> unnecessary research. At least that is a start!

>

> However my pleasure was short lived, for whilst channel surfing, I

> came across a piece on T.V. that made me sit up. It was about a

> system where they can take a fish, partially gut it, scale it, dip it

> in batter and fry part of it, whilst all the time keeping it ALIVE!I

> t was then served up on the table with sauce, whilst the eating

> parties dug in with chopsticks. The family's children ran from the

> table for the fish was obviously alive and suffering, opening and

> closing its mouth. Or we have the skinning of seal cubs while still

> alive, the boiling of shell-fish while still alive and many other

> violent acts. This doesn't include the horrors of the slaughterhouses.

>

> All violence of any kind should be avoided except for self defence.

> That means in thought, word, and deed .Even making too much noise

> should be avoided. Humans are human animals ,aspiring human beings,

> human beings, and Divine Humans. Intelligence has nothing to do with

> it. For it has to do with the level of awareness and purification of

> the awareness sheath or vijnanamayakosa. A completely purified

> vijnanamayakosa is the sheath that a Jnani uses to relate to the

> world. To the human animal eating meat is probably part of it's self

> developed condition .For spiritual seekers though, aspiring human

> beings, eating meat is a no-no and that includes fish. Swami

> Yogananda did say however that unfertilised eggs are alright to eat,

> if you really have to, free range that is. Ghandiji did eat eggs,

> when he was ill. Wearing leather is again debatable, for if the

> animal died for food the leather is something superflous. On the

> other hand fur is different, for the animal is killed for its skin

> alone. It is all in the motive, it is in the mind. We can only do the

> best we can and most like to do things gradually rather than not at

> all.

>

> Vegetarianism for Spiritual Seekers is not primarily for reasons of

> health but for Spirituality. It is really a belief in Ahimsa or non-

> violence that is the motivating cause.

>

> For example eating meat means accepting blame and bad Karma, probably

> for many lifetimes, for killing an animal and the associated

> suffering. It is not our Dharma to eat meat and we have caused pain

> and terror to the animal. Also we have sent billions of animals to

> the subtle plane. Many of these animals are reincarnated as humans

> and carry with them the resentment of their treatment and death in

> the slaughterhouses. This adds to bad vibrations on the planet and

> subsequent massacres and killings, as in Ruanda etc. Violence can be

> intrinsic, like banging a book down on a table, cutting down trees un-

> necessarily or even thinking bad thoughts.

>

> Meat eating is a habit like smoking, drug addiction or alcoholism and

> it can be broken the same way; Pray, surrender to The Divine and

> stop. Some people may have to do it progressively; however this may

> only prolong the bad karma involved.

>

> The advantages of being a vegetarian are many, apart from the effect

> on our health. When we eat meat we absorb animal vibrations into our

> own mind and body, making it more difficult to advance spiritually.

>

> Many argue that we need meat for proteins. The humble soya can supply

> most dietary needs contained in meat. It takes 4 kg of fish meal to

> produce every 1 kg of farmed salmon. Also it takes 8kg of grain to

> produce 1/2kg of beef; a waste of food resources on a hungry

> planet .At the present time 3%-6% of North Americans and 15% of

> British are vegetarians. The Indian percentage would be much higher

> no doubt.

>

> Meat eating leads to rajasic and tamasic tendencies but a sathwic

> diet consisting of vegetables, except not too many, onions, garlic

> chillies etc, will be conducive to a peaceful mind.

>

> As Dr. Albert Schweitzer tells us:

>

> " I cannot but have reverence for all that is called life. I cannot

> avoid compassion for everything that is called life. That is the

> beginning of morality. Once a man has experienced it and continues to

> do so he/she is ethical. He carries morality within him/her and can

> never lose it, for it continues to develop within him. He who has

> never experienced this has only a set of superficial principles.

>

> These theories have no root in him, they do not belong to him, and

> they fall off him......Reverence for life comprises the whole ethic

> of love in its deepest and highest sense. It is the source of

> constant renewal for the individual and for mankind.(Respect for life

> is compassion, which is a prerequisite for understanding.)

>

> (Scheitzer pp 116-177) (1)

>

> Ghandiji said; " Cow protection is to me one of the most wonderful

> phenomena in human evolution. It takes the human being beyond his

> species. The cow to me means the entire subhuman world. Man through

> the cow is enjoined to realise his identity with all that lives...She

> is the mother to millions of Indian (and others), mankind. " TO MY

> MIND THE LIFE OF A LAMB IS NO LESS PRECIOUS THAN THAT OF A HUMAN

> BEING. " -GANDHIJI

>

> We should cultivate certain desirable practices. For instance we

> should regulate our diet, because one's food influences one's

> thoughts. Eating animal food promotes animal tendencies. Those who

> take to the spiritual path should avoid as much as possible bad

> practices. There is no meaning in professing to respect human values

> without observing the rule that you should cause NO HARM to others in

> any form whatsoever. "

>

> .

>

> " And God said, Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed, which

> is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the

> fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for MEAT! " Genesis

> 1:29. Many terms in the Bible have been mistranslated, for whatever

> reason. The word food has been translated as meat and as flesh even,

> this is to give the impression that Jesus was a meat eater. It's

> interesting that in Scotland today the word meat can mean food

> generally, not just animal flesh. Also the word for wine mostly means

> unfermented grape-juice, or Must, which was what the Essenes used

>

> " Thou shall not kill " ....Bible, Ten Commandments. lo tirtzach—not

> kill anything.

>

> " He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man " .....Isaiah 66:3

>

> The first of Buddhism's Ten Precepts is, " Refrain from destroying

> life. "

>

> The Mahabharata, warns " Those who kill and eat cows will rot in hell

> for as many years as there are hairs on the slaughtered

> cow, " and " What greater cruelty and selfishness than to increase the

> flesh of one's body by eating the flesh of innocent creatures? "

>

> I don't know whether you can take the Mahabharata literally but the

> inference is there.

>

> If one can grasp that " all is one " , then harming a being that can

> feel pain is harming oneself. As seekers on the spiritual path, we

> should avoid being responsible for other's pain, animal or not.

>

> . On another note, what kind of insensitivity and lack of conscious

> awareness, or rather conscience, allows an animal to suffer for an

> unholy human desire, that one hasn't the courage or willpower to

> overcome. One is reduced to a state less than the animal, for even an

> animal keeps it's desires in season. This was my thought about myself

> and I couldn't live with that, and that is why, after reading

> Maxims, " in the back of a book on Hindu Spirituality, " I became a

> vegetarian immediately. Sakti also gave me a dream, where I

> experienced being a cow that was led to slaughter.

>

> The morning that I gave up eating meat I had a dream that was the

> catalyst. I was visiting some family members in Sydney and I was on

> Bondi Beach, I like surfing. I ate a hamburger and then fell asleep

> on the beach during which time, I was given a dream. In this dream I

> was actually a cow or steer or whatever, bovine anyway.

> I was in the slaughterhouse, and was terrified by the cries of the

> other animals waiting to go up before the human killer. The stench

> of blood and faeces assailed by rather large nostrils and my eyes

> rolled in utter panic and fear in my head. I looked around for

> someone I knew but I was alone amongst all these terrified

> animals.My panic grew as I was forced between a row of gates and

> down a slippy path full of blood, faeces and urine. I hesitated and

> was prodded with an electric prod to make me move forward into this

> tight space. Eventually I was in a kind of giant manacle which held

> my head for the human killer. I was terrified and so were all the

> other cattle for we knew, yes we knew.

> At his point I awoke on the beach repeating 'My God they know', they

> know they are going to be killed so cruelly. At that point I

> resolved never to be an accomplice to the greatest holocaust of all

> time, and I became a vegetarian. I'm a slow learner you see!!

> There are no excuses or alibis, religious or otherwise,

> for " spiritual seekers, " to be meat eaters; it is also injurious to

> health, check out " mad cow disease or hamburger disease, or chicken

> flu. If you eat meat you will get animal diseases. "

>

> However as a last note, if one is a vegetarian one shouldn't be smug

> about our meat eating brother or sister. I am not claiming to be a

> superior being and no doubt have as many desires as the next person.

> However I have overcome eating meat with Sakti's Grace. You can too,

> if you are still a meat-eater. However you must have the belief and

> desire to do so, many people see nothing wrong at all in eating meat,

> it is their choice.

>

> " Ananyaaschinthayantho Maam Ye Janaah Paryupaasathe Theshaam

> Nithyaabhiyukthaanaam Yogakshemam Vahamyaham. "

>

> " Whoever surrenders to The Lord, The Lord will take on his/her

> yogakshemam and provide for him/her. " The Gita.9:22.

>

> "

>

> ,

> " The great sage Yagnavalkya ,in his Yagnavalkyasmiti stated that

> three ghastly crimes are committed by slaughtering animals for the

> sake of eating their flesh.

>

> These are :

> (1)the taking of innocent life;

>

> (2)the infliction of pain on the innocent animal during the process

> of killing it;and

>

> (3)the crime of depriving the animal of its strength through

> slaughtering it.

>

> Punishment for all three crimes entails twenty rebirths

> characterised by premature and painful death in the first;

>

> pain ,suffering and unhappiness,including family feuds,anxiety and

> tensions in the second;

>

> poor health in which the life of the person concerned will be wasted

> away,in the third. "

>

> INDIRA RADHAN. MAY 1996.

>

> Many people don't realise the consequences of eating meat. I don't

> know whether we can take the above literally but there are karmic

> consequences, and if one doesn't learn from them one is condemned to

> relive them until one wakes up.

>

> Sages can read what we cannot and I strongly believe the dream I had

> on the beach was from the vibrations and memory left in that

> particular meat. I had been meditation for almost a year so it was

> easier for it to manifest. I realise that I have karma to pay from

> the time that I was eating meat and the only way to escape it is

> through Moksha.....then only the body will suffer it.

>

> 1) Taken from Vic Sussman " The Vegetarian Alternative " , Rodale

> Press, Emmaus Pa.1978

>

November 29, 2006

In response to,

There is NOTHING in this world that is of itself harmless except the

> practice of a constant vigilance and realization of the non-duality

> of life, which is harmlessness/love/compassion in/of/by and as

> itself.

>

> Remember harmony contains " harm " .

>

I'd say, that for me, nonduality has to not be attached to either

harming or not harming. How can the latter dichotomy be anything but

duality?

As for the " harm " in " harmony, " how about the " money " in it, as well?

Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote:

>

> Namaste Tony,

>

> I am well aware of your vegetarian/ahimsa practices. I have already

> told my story: I gave up meat on two separate occasions and the

> reasons I did and the reason why I gave up giving up.

>

> Have you considered that there is a certain 'harm' in bringing your

> beliefs to the forefront to folks who have tried and tried,

> unsuccessfully to give up meat, for any number of reasons?

>

> There is NOTHING in this world that is of itself harmless except the

> practice of a constant vigilance and realization of the non-duality

> of life, which is harmlessness/love/compassion in/of/by and as

> itself.

>

> Remember harmony contains " harm " .

>

> Metta,

> Anna

Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@>

> wrote:

> >

> > BEING A VEGETARIAN and AHIMSA.

> >

> > ..............

November 29, 2006