Guest guest Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Ideas are very useful to manipulate the world. Since humans first saw a bird fly, we wanted to fly, and ideas, finally, taught us how. Since humans first saw a loved one die, we wanted to conquer death, and ideas taught us how to triple our life span. Maybe someday our ideas will conquer death altogether, but our ideas will never tell us what existing is, or what death is. We only fool ourselves when we think we know ontological issues. Only direct perception can give us a sense of the infinite which incarnates and becomes conscious in this human bodies. The moment we try to translate such intimations into thoughts they become false. It will remain forever unknown. This doesn't mean discussing such falsehoods is useless. Discussing the false, could lead to direct perception. So even in this realm of ontology where all words are false and fail, they still, like a candle can illuminate the way, and, then, when apperception happens, be blown out. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Nisargadatta , Pesi <pedsie6 wrote: > > Ideas are very useful to manipulate the world. > Since humans first saw a bird fly, we wanted to fly, > and ideas, finally, taught us how. Since humans > first saw a loved one die, we wanted to conquer death, > and ideas taught us how to triple our life span. Maybe > someday our ideas will conquer death altogether, but > our ideas will never tell us what existing is, or what > death is. > > We only fool ourselves when we think we know > ontological issues. Only direct perception can > give us a sense of the infinite which incarnates > and becomes conscious in this human bodies. > > The moment we try to translate such intimations > into thoughts they become false. It will remain > forever unknown. This doesn't mean discussing > such falsehoods is useless. Discussing the false, > could lead to direct perception. So even in this > realm of ontology where all words are false and > fail, they still, like a candle can illuminate the way, > and, then, when apperception happens, be blown out. > > Pete whenever ideas kill some illusions.....more ideas will rise.... whenever ideas develop some illusions....more ideas will rise.... some " direction " is maybe necessary.... in spirituality....i think....ideas let one realise more and more.......where and why they come from..... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <tuvalu66 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Pesi <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > Ideas are very useful to manipulate the world. > > Since humans first saw a bird fly, we wanted to fly, > > and ideas, finally, taught us how. Since humans > > first saw a loved one die, we wanted to conquer death, > > and ideas taught us how to triple our life span. Maybe > > someday our ideas will conquer death altogether, but > > our ideas will never tell us what existing is, or what > > death is. > > > > We only fool ourselves when we think we know > > ontological issues. Only direct perception can > > give us a sense of the infinite which incarnates > > and becomes conscious in this human bodies. > > > > The moment we try to translate such intimations > > into thoughts they become false. It will remain > > forever unknown. This doesn't mean discussing > > such falsehoods is useless. Discussing the false, > > could lead to direct perception. So even in this > > realm of ontology where all words are false and > > fail, they still, like a candle can illuminate the way, > > and, then, when apperception happens, be blown out. > > > > Pete > > >M: whenever ideas kill some illusions.....more ideas will rise.... > whenever ideas develop some illusions....more ideas will rise.... > > some " direction " is maybe necessary.... P: What kind of direction? Wouldn't any direction be another idea? > > M: in spirituality....i think....ideas let one realise more and > more.......where and why they come from..... P: Could you explain how more, and more applies to realization? Would not be where and why be also more ideas? > > > > Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <tuvalu66@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Pesi <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > Ideas are very useful to manipulate the world. > > > Since humans first saw a bird fly, we wanted to fly, > > > and ideas, finally, taught us how. Since humans > > > first saw a loved one die, we wanted to conquer death, > > > and ideas taught us how to triple our life span. Maybe > > > someday our ideas will conquer death altogether, but > > > our ideas will never tell us what existing is, or what > > > death is. > > > > > > We only fool ourselves when we think we know > > > ontological issues. Only direct perception can > > > give us a sense of the infinite which incarnates > > > and becomes conscious in this human bodies. > > > > > > The moment we try to translate such intimations > > > into thoughts they become false. It will remain > > > forever unknown. This doesn't mean discussing > > > such falsehoods is useless. Discussing the false, > > > could lead to direct perception. So even in this > > > realm of ontology where all words are false and > > > fail, they still, like a candle can illuminate the way, > > > and, then, when apperception happens, be blown out. > > > > > > Pete > > > > > >M: whenever ideas kill some illusions.....more ideas will rise.... > > whenever ideas develop some illusions....more ideas will rise.... > > > > some " direction " is maybe necessary.... > > P: What kind of direction? Wouldn't any direction be another > idea? > > > > M: in spirituality....i think....ideas let one realise more and > > more.......where and why they come from..... > > P: Could you explain how more, and more applies to realization? > > Would not be where and why be also more ideas? > > > > > > > > Marc Hi Pete, don't know maybe how to explain this " direction " .... indeed a difficult subject to talk about....means, to explain in words, what are exactly this feeling about necessary " direction " about if you think that everything is reduced to " ideas " only.....i would agree to the point that we are here talking in the fiction of an imaginary world.....in the imagination to be " this or that " ....talking to an entity which appear only seperated to each.... and so on.... yes....there is never any reason to be " stressed " about ideas and concepts ..... " more " important than others..... nothing is realy important...except to be free not only to have the " idea " to be free.....but also to know it for sure the one " who " is free....know it....for sure..... just like the one " who " isn't free.....don't know he/she...in reality....is free i think it's not that simple to reduce all there is.....and so also this freedom and peace.....to " ideas " only if you want to be awake....during this life-dream..... means....if you want to be aware of the dream.....constantly..... then it's necessary to develop some more inner peace....more and more.....until one reach the Self......always present.....here and now the Self don't need any ideas & concepts to be free.... we don't live for the existence of Self.... but Self give/is/take constantly all there Is.....whatever, however, whenever intiutions....inspirations.....and also " ideas " ..... like a communication with liberated Self.... and following some " direction " ....in following this inner path.....with heart..... but whenever the mind is restless.....this inner communication don't work.... possible that there are endless fantastic ideas...rising...again and again..... but all this lead to nothing realy....except fabuloes confusion.... imagine there are some people....who have some specialisation...in criminal actions.....and develop some fantastic ideas to make profit more and more....of this.... in the imagination that such fantastic ideas realy are indifferent to ideas about.......inner peace and liberation there are gurus of all kind.... it's about to choose the right ones.... if no guru is allowed to help on the path to liberation.... then, still it's necessary to get closer to the inner treasure....deep within oneself there is no real choice....on the path even if there is the " idea " of a free choice...free will....and other fabuloes concepts....just like the one of... " no directions " Marc > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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