Guest guest Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 From NDS by my friend Sarlo: At 12:00 PM 12/2/06, M Bingo wrote: >Beedi is the home made Indian " Cigarette " which the Riksha wallas and >other poor people smoked. Nisargadatta was a chain smoker. FWIW also spelled bidi, and Nisargadatta not only smoked them but sold them. From a bio page: Maurice Frydman brought Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj to the attention of the world. Although Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj did adapt a different mode of instruction for his Western disciples, through the question and answer format, his transmission was the same for all. The irony of a totally unlettered man being one of the most eloquent exponents of non-duality was not lost on those who came to see him. He was a perfect teacher for those who came to see him because he was accessible in so many ways. He was accessible by being in the midst of the noisiest city on earth. He was accessible in that he had freely given of himself, spiritually, while selling bidis and this free offering of himself continued unabated in his home on Ketwadi Lane. He was available because he had no pretense whatsoever and was intent on unmasking all spiritual fraud. He was available because at the heart of his detachment was unconditional love. > Osho/Rajneesh used to refer to him as the " Beedi Walla " in a > condescending way since Beedies are smoked by the " lower classes working > people " in India. In Osho's mind, Nisargadatta was a " lower class " guy > duping the westerners who should be all coming to him. Osho viewed > Nisargadatta to be his competitor. There is another angle to his criticism of " Beedie Baba. " [sic, not " Beedi Walla " ] Although Osho criticised many in the guru trade, he only spoke twice of Nisargadatta (compared, say, to over a hundred mentions of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi or Muktananda). Since one of those two times was in the context of answering a question about why masters criticise each other, the context may offer a different possibility. He said, among other things, that masters criticise each other " because they know one thing: that the goal is one, but the paths are many. And each master has to defend his path, knowing perfectly well that other paths are as valid as his. But if he starts saying that all the paths are valid, he will not have the impact, the influence on his people. " The rest of this answer, with the intervening Niz crits and other anecdotes snipped, at http://www.globalserve.net/~sarlo/Ycrit.htm . Whatever one thinks of Osho or whether the quote is seen as just a rationale for competing for market share, the context of his crits of Nisargadatta suggests to me that Niz was not the mediocrity in his eyes that the others were. >Most of the gurus turn out to be good for some people and jackasses and >jerks to others. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Well said. >On 12/2/06, Jerry Katz ><<umbadaumbada wrote: >> >>I've been reading some of Rajneesh/Osho lately and what seemed so >>revealing in the 70's now seems unfocused and spread out. Da Free John >>came along as the next spiritual giant having an impact in the West and >>nailed down enlightenment much more tightly. A lot of good teachers >>followed in the guru/devotee mold he set. Then it wasn't until the >>internet in the late 90's that enlightenment saw through the almighty >>guru/teacher and became even more spare and to the point. Now you didn't >>need a guru. You just needed good communication with people that knew >>more than you. That process is still happening actually. The internet is >>still paring down the enlightenment story to its elements. And Osho, and >>probably everyone else, is being left behind. They're interesting and >>worthwhile in some ways, but unnecessary. Still, we all do our thing >>because that's what we do. It is fashionable in some spiritual circles to proclaim the end of the guru paradigm. Lots of positions have been expounded on this topic, pro and con. Even Sri Nisargadatta though, who is cited frequently to make the case for " the guru is not needed or is even antithetical to awakening, " has said: >> I can only tell you what I know from my own experience. When I met my guru, he told me: " You are not what you take yourself to be. Find out who you are. Watch the sense 'I am', find your real self'. I obeyed him, because I trusted him. I did as he told me. All my spare time I would spend looking at myself in silence. And what a difference it made, and how soon! It took me only three years to realize my true nature. My guru died soon after I met him, but it made no difference. I remember what he told me and persevered. The fruit of it is here, with me. << It is not surprising that the no-guru idea has arisen most strongly in the west. What's a poor rugged individual to do? But you're right that in the end, " we all do our thing because that's what we do. " Thanks, Sarlo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > From NDS by my friend Sarlo: > > At 12:00 PM 12/2/06, M Bingo wrote: > > >Beedi is the home made Indian " Cigarette " which the Riksha wallas and > >other poor people smoked. Nisargadatta was a chain smoker. > > FWIW also spelled bidi, and Nisargadatta not only smoked them but sold them. > > From a bio page: > > Maurice Frydman brought Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj to the attention of the > world. Although Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj did adapt a different mode of > instruction for his Western disciples, through the question and answer > format, his transmission was the same for all. The irony of a totally > unlettered man being one of the most eloquent exponents of non-duality was > not lost on those who came to see him. He was a perfect teacher for those > who came to see him because he was accessible in so many ways. He was > accessible by being in the midst of the noisiest city on earth. He was > accessible in that he had freely given of himself, spiritually, while > selling bidis and this free offering of himself continued unabated in his > home on Ketwadi Lane. He was available because he had no pretense > whatsoever and was intent on unmasking all spiritual fraud. He was > available because at the heart of his detachment was unconditional love. > > > Osho/Rajneesh used to refer to him as the " Beedi Walla " in a > > condescending way since Beedies are smoked by the " lower classes working > > people " in India. In Osho's mind, Nisargadatta was a " lower class " guy > > duping the westerners who should be all coming to him. Osho viewed > > Nisargadatta to be his competitor. > > There is another angle to his criticism of " Beedie Baba. " [sic, not " Beedi > Walla " ] > > Although Osho criticised many in the guru trade, he only spoke twice of > Nisargadatta (compared, say, to over a hundred mentions of Maharishi Mahesh > Yogi or Muktananda). Since one of those two times was in the context of > answering a question about why masters criticise each other, the context > may offer a different possibility. > > He said, among other things, that masters criticise each other " because > they know one thing: that the goal is one, but the paths are many. And each > master has to defend his path, knowing perfectly well that other paths are > as valid as his. But if he starts saying that all the paths are valid, he > will not have the impact, the influence on his people. " The rest of this > answer, with the intervening Niz crits and other anecdotes snipped, at > http://www.globalserve.net/~sarlo/Ycrit.htm . > > Whatever one thinks of Osho or whether the quote is seen as just a > rationale for competing for market share, the context of his crits of > Nisargadatta suggests to me that Niz was not the mediocrity in his eyes > that the others were. > > >Most of the gurus turn out to be good for some people and jackasses and > >jerks to others. Not that there is anything wrong with that. > > Well said. > > >On 12/2/06, Jerry Katz > ><<umbadaumbada wrote: > >> > >>I've been reading some of Rajneesh/Osho lately and what seemed so > >>revealing in the 70's now seems unfocused and spread out. Da Free John > >>came along as the next spiritual giant having an impact in the West and > >>nailed down enlightenment much more tightly. A lot of good teachers > >>followed in the guru/devotee mold he set. Then it wasn't until the > >>internet in the late 90's that enlightenment saw through the almighty > >>guru/teacher and became even more spare and to the point. Now you didn't > >>need a guru. You just needed good communication with people that knew > >>more than you. That process is still happening actually. The internet is > >>still paring down the enlightenment story to its elements. And Osho, and > >>probably everyone else, is being left behind. They're interesting and > >>worthwhile in some ways, but unnecessary. Still, we all do our thing > >>because that's what we do. > > It is fashionable in some spiritual circles to proclaim the end of the guru > paradigm. Lots of positions have been expounded on this topic, pro and con. > Even Sri Nisargadatta though, who is cited frequently to make the case for > " the guru is not needed or is even antithetical to awakening, " has said: > > >> I can only tell you what I know from my own > experience. When I met my guru, he told me: " You are not what you > take yourself to be. Find out who you are. Watch the sense 'I am', > find your real self'. I obeyed him, because I trusted him. I did as > he told me. All my spare time I would spend looking at myself in > silence. And what a difference it made, and how soon! It took me > only three years to realize my true nature. My guru died soon after > I met him, but it made no difference. I remember what he told me and > persevered. The fruit of it is here, with me. << > > It is not surprising that the no-guru idea has arisen most strongly in the > west. What's a poor rugged individual to do? > > But you're right that in the end, " we all do our thing because that's what > we do. " > > Thanks, Sarlo > Friendship is more important than truth. And sex is more important than friendship. After all, Truth IS a woman. Sarlo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > From NDS by my friend Sarlo: > > > > At 12:00 PM 12/2/06, M Bingo wrote: > > > > >Beedi is the home made Indian " Cigarette " which the Riksha wallas and > > >other poor people smoked. Nisargadatta was a chain smoker. > > > > FWIW also spelled bidi, and Nisargadatta not only smoked them but > sold them. > > > > From a bio page: > > > > Maurice Frydman brought Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj to the attention of > the > > world. Although Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj did adapt a different mode of > > instruction for his Western disciples, through the question and answer > > format, his transmission was the same for all. The irony of a totally > > unlettered man being one of the most eloquent exponents of > non-duality was > > not lost on those who came to see him. He was a perfect teacher for > those > > who came to see him because he was accessible in so many ways. He was > > accessible by being in the midst of the noisiest city on earth. He was > > accessible in that he had freely given of himself, spiritually, while > > selling bidis and this free offering of himself continued unabated > in his > > home on Ketwadi Lane. He was available because he had no pretense > > whatsoever and was intent on unmasking all spiritual fraud. He was > > available because at the heart of his detachment was unconditional love. > > > > > Osho/Rajneesh used to refer to him as the " Beedi Walla " in a > > > condescending way since Beedies are smoked by the " lower classes > working > > > people " in India. In Osho's mind, Nisargadatta was a " lower class " > guy > > > duping the westerners who should be all coming to him. Osho viewed > > > Nisargadatta to be his competitor. > > > > There is another angle to his criticism of " Beedie Baba. " [sic, not > " Beedi > > Walla " ] > > > > Although Osho criticised many in the guru trade, he only spoke twice of > > Nisargadatta (compared, say, to over a hundred mentions of Maharishi > Mahesh > > Yogi or Muktananda). Since one of those two times was in the context of > > answering a question about why masters criticise each other, the > context > > may offer a different possibility. > > > > He said, among other things, that masters criticise each other " because > > they know one thing: that the goal is one, but the paths are many. > And each > > master has to defend his path, knowing perfectly well that other > paths are > > as valid as his. But if he starts saying that all the paths are > valid, he > > will not have the impact, the influence on his people. " The rest of > this > > answer, with the intervening Niz crits and other anecdotes snipped, at > > http://www.globalserve.net/~sarlo/Ycrit.htm . > > > > Whatever one thinks of Osho or whether the quote is seen as just a > > rationale for competing for market share, the context of his crits of > > Nisargadatta suggests to me that Niz was not the mediocrity in his eyes > > that the others were. > > > > >Most of the gurus turn out to be good for some people and jackasses > and > > >jerks to others. Not that there is anything wrong with that. > > > > Well said. > > > > >On 12/2/06, Jerry Katz > > ><<umbada@>umbada@> wrote: > > >> > > >>I've been reading some of Rajneesh/Osho lately and what seemed so > > >>revealing in the 70's now seems unfocused and spread out. Da Free > John > > >>came along as the next spiritual giant having an impact in the > West and > > >>nailed down enlightenment much more tightly. A lot of good teachers > > >>followed in the guru/devotee mold he set. Then it wasn't until the > > >>internet in the late 90's that enlightenment saw through the almighty > > >>guru/teacher and became even more spare and to the point. Now you > didn't > > >>need a guru. You just needed good communication with people that knew > > >>more than you. That process is still happening actually. The > internet is > > >>still paring down the enlightenment story to its elements. And > Osho, and > > >>probably everyone else, is being left behind. They're interesting and > > >>worthwhile in some ways, but unnecessary. Still, we all do our thing > > >>because that's what we do. > > > > It is fashionable in some spiritual circles to proclaim the end of > the guru > > paradigm. Lots of positions have been expounded on this topic, pro > and con. > > Even Sri Nisargadatta though, who is cited frequently to make the > case for > > " the guru is not needed or is even antithetical to awakening, " has said: > > > > >> I can only tell you what I know from my own > > experience. When I met my guru, he told me: " You are not what you > > take yourself to be. Find out who you are. Watch the sense 'I am', > > find your real self'. I obeyed him, because I trusted him. I did as > > he told me. All my spare time I would spend looking at myself in > > silence. And what a difference it made, and how soon! It took me > > only three years to realize my true nature. My guru died soon after > > I met him, but it made no difference. I remember what he told me and > > persevered. The fruit of it is here, with me. << > > > > It is not surprising that the no-guru idea has arisen most strongly > in the > > west. What's a poor rugged individual to do? > > > > But you're right that in the end, " we all do our thing because > that's what > > we do. " > > > > Thanks, Sarlo > > > > > > > Friendship is more important than truth. And sex is more important > than friendship. After all, Truth IS a woman. > > Sarlo > Of course, TT is only concerned of Truth and of what is not Truth, for he cannot accept half-measures, because there aint no half Truth but the Truth itself.... a woman. Wow. Sukhi ho TT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > From NDS by my friend Sarlo: > > > > > > At 12:00 PM 12/2/06, M Bingo wrote: > > > > > > >Beedi is the home made Indian " Cigarette " which the Riksha > wallas and > > > >other poor people smoked. Nisargadatta was a chain smoker. > > > > > > FWIW also spelled bidi, and Nisargadatta not only smoked them but > > sold them. > > > > > > From a bio page: > > > > > > Maurice Frydman brought Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj to the attention > of > > the > > > world. Although Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj did adapt a different > mode of > > > instruction for his Western disciples, through the question and > answer > > > format, his transmission was the same for all. The irony of a > totally > > > unlettered man being one of the most eloquent exponents of > > non-duality was > > > not lost on those who came to see him. He was a perfect teacher > for > > those > > > who came to see him because he was accessible in so many ways. He > was > > > accessible by being in the midst of the noisiest city on earth. > He was > > > accessible in that he had freely given of himself, spiritually, > while > > > selling bidis and this free offering of himself continued unabated > > in his > > > home on Ketwadi Lane. He was available because he had no pretense > > > whatsoever and was intent on unmasking all spiritual fraud. He > was > > > available because at the heart of his detachment was > unconditional love. > > > > > > > Osho/Rajneesh used to refer to him as the " Beedi Walla " in a > > > > condescending way since Beedies are smoked by the " lower classes > > working > > > > people " in India. In Osho's mind, Nisargadatta was a " lower > class " > > guy > > > > duping the westerners who should be all coming to him. Osho > viewed > > > > Nisargadatta to be his competitor. > > > > > > There is another angle to his criticism of " Beedie Baba. " [sic, > not > > " Beedi > > > Walla " ] > > > > > > Although Osho criticised many in the guru trade, he only spoke > twice of > > > Nisargadatta (compared, say, to over a hundred mentions of > Maharishi > > Mahesh > > > Yogi or Muktananda). Since one of those two times was in the > context of > > > answering a question about why masters criticise each other, the > > context > > > may offer a different possibility. > > > > > > He said, among other things, that masters criticise each > other " because > > > they know one thing: that the goal is one, but the paths are many. > > And each > > > master has to defend his path, knowing perfectly well that other > > paths are > > > as valid as his. But if he starts saying that all the paths are > > valid, he > > > will not have the impact, the influence on his people. " The rest > of > > this > > > answer, with the intervening Niz crits and other anecdotes > snipped, at > > > http://www.globalserve.net/~sarlo/Ycrit.htm . > > > > > > Whatever one thinks of Osho or whether the quote is seen as just > a > > > rationale for competing for market share, the context of his > crits of > > > Nisargadatta suggests to me that Niz was not the mediocrity in > his eyes > > > that the others were. > > > > > > >Most of the gurus turn out to be good for some people and > jackasses > > and > > > >jerks to others. Not that there is anything wrong with that. > > > > > > Well said. > > > > > > >On 12/2/06, Jerry Katz > > > ><<umbada@>umbada@> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>I've been reading some of Rajneesh/Osho lately and what seemed > so > > > >>revealing in the 70's now seems unfocused and spread out. Da > Free > > John > > > >>came along as the next spiritual giant having an impact in the > > West and > > > >>nailed down enlightenment much more tightly. A lot of good > teachers > > > >>followed in the guru/devotee mold he set. Then it wasn't until > the > > > >>internet in the late 90's that enlightenment saw through the > almighty > > > >>guru/teacher and became even more spare and to the point. Now > you > > didn't > > > >>need a guru. You just needed good communication with people > that knew > > > >>more than you. That process is still happening actually. The > > internet is > > > >>still paring down the enlightenment story to its elements. And > > Osho, and > > > >>probably everyone else, is being left behind. They're > interesting and > > > >>worthwhile in some ways, but unnecessary. Still, we all do our > thing > > > >>because that's what we do. > > > > > > It is fashionable in some spiritual circles to proclaim the end of > > the guru > > > paradigm. Lots of positions have been expounded on this topic, pro > > and con. > > > Even Sri Nisargadatta though, who is cited frequently to make the > > case for > > > " the guru is not needed or is even antithetical to awakening, " > has said: > > > > > > >> I can only tell you what I know from my own > > > experience. When I met my guru, he told me: " You are not what you > > > take yourself to be. Find out who you are. Watch the sense 'I am', > > > find your real self'. I obeyed him, because I trusted him. I did > as > > > he told me. All my spare time I would spend looking at myself in > > > silence. And what a difference it made, and how soon! It took me > > > only three years to realize my true nature. My guru died soon > after > > > I met him, but it made no difference. I remember what he told me > and > > > persevered. The fruit of it is here, with me. << > > > > > > It is not surprising that the no-guru idea has arisen most > strongly > > in the > > > west. What's a poor rugged individual to do? > > > > > > But you're right that in the end, " we all do our thing because > > that's what > > > we do. " > > > > > > Thanks, Sarlo > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friendship is more important than truth. And sex is more important > > than friendship. After all, Truth IS a woman. > > > > Sarlo > > > > Of course, TT is only concerned of Truth and of what is not Truth, > for he cannot accept half-measures, because there aint no half Truth > but the Truth itself.... a woman. > Wow. > > Sukhi ho TT. > " (SJLI) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 .. . . and all these beautiful, vieled women, with swelling breasts and smooth thighs, all singing one song, calling down the Moon Goddess, don't ask them to drop thier veils, like . . . peacocks, they have murderous glances, long ago I looked upon The Magdaline, and was swept off my feet. Beauty is in the " I " of the beholder. " Homage to you, O Arya Tara, whose face is like a hundred full moons in Autumn blazing with brilliant light like a thousand constellations " T. Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Johan " <yohansky@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " skywhilds " <skywords@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > From NDS by my friend Sarlo: > > > > > > > > At 12:00 PM 12/2/06, M Bingo wrote: > > > > > > > > >Beedi is the home made Indian " Cigarette " which the Riksha > > wallas and > > > > >other poor people smoked. Nisargadatta was a chain smoker. > > > > > > > > FWIW also spelled bidi, and Nisargadatta not only smoked them but > > > sold them. > > > > > > > > From a bio page: > > > > > > > > Maurice Frydman brought Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj to the attention > > of > > > the > > > > world. Although Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj did adapt a different > > mode of > > > > instruction for his Western disciples, through the question and > > answer > > > > format, his transmission was the same for all. The irony of a > > totally > > > > unlettered man being one of the most eloquent exponents of > > > non-duality was > > > > not lost on those who came to see him. He was a perfect teacher > > for > > > those > > > > who came to see him because he was accessible in so many ways. He > > was > > > > accessible by being in the midst of the noisiest city on earth. > > He was > > > > accessible in that he had freely given of himself, spiritually, > > while > > > > selling bidis and this free offering of himself continued unabated > > > in his > > > > home on Ketwadi Lane. He was available because he had no pretense > > > > whatsoever and was intent on unmasking all spiritual fraud. He > > was > > > > available because at the heart of his detachment was > > unconditional love. > > > > > > > > > Osho/Rajneesh used to refer to him as the " Beedi Walla " in a > > > > > condescending way since Beedies are smoked by the " lower classes > > > working > > > > > people " in India. In Osho's mind, Nisargadatta was a " lower > > class " > > > guy > > > > > duping the westerners who should be all coming to him. Osho > > viewed > > > > > Nisargadatta to be his competitor. > > > > > > > > There is another angle to his criticism of " Beedie Baba. " [sic, > > not > > > " Beedi > > > > Walla " ] > > > > > > > > Although Osho criticised many in the guru trade, he only spoke > > twice of > > > > Nisargadatta (compared, say, to over a hundred mentions of > > Maharishi > > > Mahesh > > > > Yogi or Muktananda). Since one of those two times was in the > > context of > > > > answering a question about why masters criticise each other, the > > > context > > > > may offer a different possibility. > > > > > > > > He said, among other things, that masters criticise each > > other " because > > > > they know one thing: that the goal is one, but the paths are many. > > > And each > > > > master has to defend his path, knowing perfectly well that other > > > paths are > > > > as valid as his. But if he starts saying that all the paths are > > > valid, he > > > > will not have the impact, the influence on his people. " The rest > > of > > > this > > > > answer, with the intervening Niz crits and other anecdotes > > snipped, at > > > > http://www.globalserve.net/~sarlo/Ycrit.htm . > > > > > > > > Whatever one thinks of Osho or whether the quote is seen as just > > a > > > > rationale for competing for market share, the context of his > > crits of > > > > Nisargadatta suggests to me that Niz was not the mediocrity in > > his eyes > > > > that the others were. > > > > > > > > >Most of the gurus turn out to be good for some people and > > jackasses > > > and > > > > >jerks to others. Not that there is anything wrong with that. > > > > > > > > Well said. > > > > > > > > >On 12/2/06, Jerry Katz > > > > ><<umbada@>umbada@> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>I've been reading some of Rajneesh/Osho lately and what seemed > > so > > > > >>revealing in the 70's now seems unfocused and spread out. Da > > Free > > > John > > > > >>came along as the next spiritual giant having an impact in the > > > West and > > > > >>nailed down enlightenment much more tightly. A lot of good > > teachers > > > > >>followed in the guru/devotee mold he set. Then it wasn't until > > the > > > > >>internet in the late 90's that enlightenment saw through the > > almighty > > > > >>guru/teacher and became even more spare and to the point. Now > > you > > > didn't > > > > >>need a guru. You just needed good communication with people > > that knew > > > > >>more than you. That process is still happening actually. The > > > internet is > > > > >>still paring down the enlightenment story to its elements. And > > > Osho, and > > > > >>probably everyone else, is being left behind. They're > > interesting and > > > > >>worthwhile in some ways, but unnecessary. Still, we all do our > > thing > > > > >>because that's what we do. > > > > > > > > It is fashionable in some spiritual circles to proclaim the end of > > > the guru > > > > paradigm. Lots of positions have been expounded on this topic, pro > > > and con. > > > > Even Sri Nisargadatta though, who is cited frequently to make the > > > case for > > > > " the guru is not needed or is even antithetical to awakening, " > > has said: > > > > > > > > >> I can only tell you what I know from my own > > > > experience. When I met my guru, he told me: " You are not what you > > > > take yourself to be. Find out who you are. Watch the sense 'I am', > > > > find your real self'. I obeyed him, because I trusted him. I did > > as > > > > he told me. All my spare time I would spend looking at myself in > > > > silence. And what a difference it made, and how soon! It took me > > > > only three years to realize my true nature. My guru died soon > > after > > > > I met him, but it made no difference. I remember what he told me > > and > > > > persevered. The fruit of it is here, with me. << > > > > > > > > It is not surprising that the no-guru idea has arisen most > > strongly > > > in the > > > > west. What's a poor rugged individual to do? > > > > > > > > But you're right that in the end, " we all do our thing because > > > that's what > > > > we do. " > > > > > > > > Thanks, Sarlo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friendship is more important than truth. And sex is more important > > > than friendship. After all, Truth IS a woman. > > > > > > Sarlo > > > > > > > Of course, TT is only concerned of Truth and of what is not Truth, > > for he cannot accept half-measures, because there aint no half Truth > > but the Truth itself.... a woman. > > Wow. > > > > Sukhi ho TT. > > > > > > > " (SJLI) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > From NDS by my friend Sarlo: > > At 12:00 PM 12/2/06, M Bingo wrote: > > >Beedi is the home made Indian " Cigarette " which the Riksha wallas and > >other poor people smoked. Nisargadatta was a chain smoker. > > FWIW also spelled bidi, and Nisargadatta not only smoked them but sold them. > > From a bio page: > > Maurice Frydman brought Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj to the attention of the > world. Although Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj did adapt a different mode of > instruction for his Western disciples, through the question and answer > format, his transmission was the same for all. The irony of a totally > unlettered man being one of the most eloquent exponents of non- duality was > not lost on those who came to see him. He was a perfect teacher for those > who came to see him because he was accessible in so many ways. He was > accessible by being in the midst of the noisiest city on earth. He was > accessible in that he had freely given of himself, spiritually, while > selling bidis and this free offering of himself continued unabated in his > home on Ketwadi Lane. He was available because he had no pretense > whatsoever and was intent on unmasking all spiritual fraud. He was > available because at the heart of his detachment was unconditional love. > > > Osho/Rajneesh used to refer to him as the " Beedi Walla " in a > > condescending way since Beedies are smoked by the " lower classes working > > people " in India. In Osho's mind, Nisargadatta was a " lower class " guy > > duping the westerners who should be all coming to him. Osho viewed > > Nisargadatta to be his competitor. > > There is another angle to his criticism of " Beedie Baba. " [sic, not " Beedi > Walla " ] > > Although Osho criticised many in the guru trade, he only spoke twice of > Nisargadatta (compared, say, to over a hundred mentions of Maharishi Mahesh > Yogi or Muktananda). Since one of those two times was in the context of > answering a question about why masters criticise each other, the context > may offer a different possibility. > > He said, among other things, that masters criticise each other " because > they know one thing: that the goal is one, but the paths are many. And each > master has to defend his path, knowing perfectly well that other paths are > as valid as his. But if he starts saying that all the paths are valid, he > will not have the impact, the influence on his people. " The rest of this > answer, with the intervening Niz crits and other anecdotes snipped, at > http://www.globalserve.net/~sarlo/Ycrit.htm . > > Whatever one thinks of Osho or whether the quote is seen as just a > rationale for competing for market share, the context of his crits of > Nisargadatta suggests to me that Niz was not the mediocrity in his eyes > that the others were. > > >Most of the gurus turn out to be good for some people and jackasses and > >jerks to others. Not that there is anything wrong with that. > > Well said. > > >On 12/2/06, Jerry Katz > ><<umbadaumbada wrote: > >> > >>I've been reading some of Rajneesh/Osho lately and what seemed so > >>revealing in the 70's now seems unfocused and spread out. Da Free John > >>came along as the next spiritual giant having an impact in the West and > >>nailed down enlightenment much more tightly. A lot of good teachers > >>followed in the guru/devotee mold he set. Then it wasn't until the > >>internet in the late 90's that enlightenment saw through the almighty > >>guru/teacher and became even more spare and to the point. Now you didn't > >>need a guru. You just needed good communication with people that knew > >>more than you. That process is still happening actually. The internet is > >>still paring down the enlightenment story to its elements. And Osho, and > >>probably everyone else, is being left behind. They're interesting and > >>worthwhile in some ways, but unnecessary. Still, we all do our thing > >>because that's what we do. > > It is fashionable in some spiritual circles to proclaim the end of the guru > paradigm. Lots of positions have been expounded on this topic, pro and con. > Even Sri Nisargadatta though, who is cited frequently to make the case for > " the guru is not needed or is even antithetical to awakening, " has said: > > >> I can only tell you what I know from my own > experience. When I met my guru, he told me: " You are not what you > take yourself to be. Find out who you are. Watch the sense 'I am', > find your real self'. I obeyed him, because I trusted him. I did as > he told me. All my spare time I would spend looking at myself in > silence. And what a difference it made, and how soon! It took me > only three years to realize my true nature. My guru died soon after > I met him, but it made no difference. I remember what he told me and > persevered. The fruit of it is here, with me. << > > It is not surprising that the no-guru idea has arisen most strongly in the > west. What's a poor rugged individual to do? > > But you're right that in the end, " we all do our thing because that's what > we do. " > > Thanks, Sarlo many different opinions about gurus.... to compare Nis with Osho could be very interesting...because they have different personalities.... one could compare also two different waves on the ocean.... from different angles.... the only difference is the form/personality.... the nature of both is same a guru, i believe ...know/feel his/her real nature.... and let people " see/know " this mainly it seem that some gurus sometimes have great fun to talk about " others " ....means other gurus even if they know that their real nature is exactly the same people who are only attracted by superficial appearences of their gurus.....and don't know that real nature of all there Is...is Same... ....don't need/deserve, indeed, to follow any guru.... because they can't get " behind " their little ego-mind....thinking Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 > " You are not what you > take yourself to be. Find out who you are. Watch the sense 'I am', > find your real self'. I obeyed him, because I trusted him. I did as > he told me. All my spare time I would spend looking at myself in > silence. And what a difference it made, and how soon! " A couple of years ago, maybe two thousand Lakhs ago, I met this beautiful doe-eyed Sufi woman , as is my wont, I seized the moment and said to her, " You are very beautiful " she answered, " I am merely a reflection " I went home and looked at my self in my bathroom mirror, and said to my reflection, " You are not you " I turned the mirror around, so that i could 'see' behind the mirror, just a blank, white piece of plywood, I said 'That's better " I am not even a reflection. What am I ??? Tom. > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > From NDS by my friend Sarlo: > > > > At 12:00 PM 12/2/06, M Bingo wrote: > > > > >Beedi is the home made Indian " Cigarette " which the Riksha wallas > and > > >other poor people smoked. Nisargadatta was a chain smoker. > > > > FWIW also spelled bidi, and Nisargadatta not only smoked them but > sold them. > > > > From a bio page: > > > > Maurice Frydman brought Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj to the attention > of the > > world. Although Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj did adapt a different mode > of > > instruction for his Western disciples, through the question and > answer > > format, his transmission was the same for all. The irony of a > totally > > unlettered man being one of the most eloquent exponents of non- > duality was > > not lost on those who came to see him. He was a perfect teacher for > those > > who came to see him because he was accessible in so many ways. He > was > > accessible by being in the midst of the noisiest city on earth. He > was > > accessible in that he had freely given of himself, spiritually, > while > > selling bidis and this free offering of himself continued unabated > in his > > home on Ketwadi Lane. He was available because he had no pretense > > whatsoever and was intent on unmasking all spiritual fraud. He was > > available because at the heart of his detachment was unconditional > love. > > > > > Osho/Rajneesh used to refer to him as the " Beedi Walla " in a > > > condescending way since Beedies are smoked by the " lower classes > working > > > people " in India. In Osho's mind, Nisargadatta was a " lower > class " guy > > > duping the westerners who should be all coming to him. Osho > viewed > > > Nisargadatta to be his competitor. > > > > There is another angle to his criticism of " Beedie Baba. " [sic, > not " Beedi > > Walla " ] > > > > Although Osho criticised many in the guru trade, he only spoke > twice of > > Nisargadatta (compared, say, to over a hundred mentions of > Maharishi Mahesh > > Yogi or Muktananda). Since one of those two times was in the > context of > > answering a question about why masters criticise each other, the > context > > may offer a different possibility. > > > > He said, among other things, that masters criticise each > other " because > > they know one thing: that the goal is one, but the paths are many. > And each > > master has to defend his path, knowing perfectly well that other > paths are > > as valid as his. But if he starts saying that all the paths are > valid, he > > will not have the impact, the influence on his people. " The rest of > this > > answer, with the intervening Niz crits and other anecdotes snipped, > at > > http://www.globalserve.net/~sarlo/Ycrit.htm . > > > > Whatever one thinks of Osho or whether the quote is seen as just a > > rationale for competing for market share, the context of his crits > of > > Nisargadatta suggests to me that Niz was not the mediocrity in his > eyes > > that the others were. > > > > >Most of the gurus turn out to be good for some people and > jackasses and > > >jerks to others. Not that there is anything wrong with that. > > > > Well said. > > > > >On 12/2/06, Jerry Katz > > ><<umbada@>umbada@> wrote: > > >> > > >>I've been reading some of Rajneesh/Osho lately and what seemed so > > >>revealing in the 70's now seems unfocused and spread out. Da Free > John > > >>came along as the next spiritual giant having an impact in the > West and > > >>nailed down enlightenment much more tightly. A lot of good > teachers > > >>followed in the guru/devotee mold he set. Then it wasn't until > the > > >>internet in the late 90's that enlightenment saw through the > almighty > > >>guru/teacher and became even more spare and to the point. Now you > didn't > > >>need a guru. You just needed good communication with people that > knew > > >>more than you. That process is still happening actually. The > internet is > > >>still paring down the enlightenment story to its elements. And > Osho, and > > >>probably everyone else, is being left behind. They're interesting > and > > >>worthwhile in some ways, but unnecessary. Still, we all do our > thing > > >>because that's what we do. > > > > It is fashionable in some spiritual circles to proclaim the end of > the guru > > paradigm. Lots of positions have been expounded on this topic, pro > and con. > > Even Sri Nisargadatta though, who is cited frequently to make the > case for > > " the guru is not needed or is even antithetical to awakening, " has > said: > > > > >> I can only tell you what I know from my own > > experience. When I met my guru, he told me: " You are not what you > > take yourself to be. Find out who you are. Watch the sense 'I am', > > find your real self'. I obeyed him, because I trusted him. I did as > > he told me. All my spare time I would spend looking at myself in > > silence. And what a difference it made, and how soon! It took me > > only three years to realize my true nature. My guru died soon after > > I met him, but it made no difference. I remember what he told me and > > persevered. The fruit of it is here, with me. << > > > > It is not surprising that the no-guru idea has arisen most strongly > in the > > west. What's a poor rugged individual to do? > > > > But you're right that in the end, " we all do our thing because > that's what > > we do. " > > > > Thanks, Sarlo > > > many different opinions about gurus.... > > to compare Nis with Osho could be very interesting...because they > have different personalities.... > > one could compare also two different waves on the ocean.... > from different angles.... > > the only difference is the form/personality.... > > > the nature of both is same > > > > a guru, i believe ...know/feel his/her real nature.... > and let people " see/know " this mainly > > it seem that some gurus sometimes have great fun to talk > about " others " ....means other gurus > even if they know that their real nature is exactly the same > > people who are only attracted by superficial appearences of their > gurus.....and don't know that real nature of all there Is...is Same... > > ...don't need/deserve, indeed, to follow any guru.... > > because they can't get " behind " their little ego-mind....thinking > > > Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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