Guest guest Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 Contradictions Of Pointers There are many seeming contradictions from various " teachers " regarding the practice or occurring of " Self-Enquiry. " This page will not resolve these seeming conflicts. Resolution can only occur as an intellectual understanding of a pointer - which turns the elegant pointer into ever more spiritual bullshit. These pointings are not REPRESENTATIONS of some knowing- some " truth. " Take them for what they are - only concepts! Assigning meaning or some " authentic validity " to a concept of " Truth " is yet another story - being arising as a false conception of the un-nameable Isness of Being. The pointers are not what they seem to be. Being Is All There Is – arising as false teachers and teachings and all concepts and experiences. That is all there is to say – and THAT is NOT TRUE EITHER! For Example: To one seeker, Sri Ramana Maharshi - the famous Sage of Non-duality - said: " The thought 'who am I?' will destroy all other thoughts, and like the stick used for stirring the burning pyre, it will itself in the end get destroyed. Then, there will arise Self-realization. " To another, the same sage, Ramana, said: " There is no greater mystery than this: ourselves being the Reality, we seek to gain Reality. We think there is something hiding our Reality and that it must be destroyed before the Reality is gained. That is ridiculous. A day will dawn when you will yourself laugh at your past efforts. That which will be the day you laugh is also here and now. " Go figure. From " Being: The Bottom Line " by Nathan Gill Available from www.non-dualitybooks.com <http://www.non-dualitybooks.com/> - highly recommended Q: Can self-enquiry lead to liberation? Nathan: There's no one bound and therefore no liberation from bondage. What you're referring to as liberation is the seeing or knowing of this. But a story about bondage may spontaneously appear in Being, and that story could include a theme of liberation through self-enquiry. Q: So in the story of self-enquiry, can liberation happen? Nathan: The story of liberation through self-enquiry unfolds in such a way that there is the impression of an entity becoming less bound as the story weakens, seemingly as a `result' of self-enquiry. But the entity that dissolves isn't really there in the first place; it's merely suggested by the story. Maybe at some point in the story this becomes transparently obvious, but until that point enquiry appears as a serious endeavour on the part of an apparent entity. When it is transparently obvious that there are no entities that are bound, the efforts toward liberation through enquiry or any other means become a joke. Q: Why then do supposedly liberated beings recommend enquiry? Nathan: There are neither liberated beings nor beings that are bound; there is only Being. But so long as the story seems real, there may well appear to be 'other' beings who offer instruction. If the story is transparent and it's obvious there's no one bound -- and therefore no one needing liberation -- what serious consideration could be given to the 'liberated' status of a merely apparent 'other' to undertake self-enquiry? Q: It's a red herring then. Nathan: If there's a story that includes the urge toward liberation through enquiry, then the story may well continue to unfold in that way, regardless of whether I declare it to be a red herring or not.. However, if the story being told includes being told that enquiry is a red herring, and the story becomes transparent as a seeming result of that, then enquiry is indeed seen as a red herring. There's also another answer to your question as to why supposedly liberated beings recommend enquiry. If 'I' as a character in the story experience what 'I' believe to be liberation as a 'result' of enquiry, 'I' may then proceed to teach enquiry as a means of liberation to that which is still perceived as `others.' Q: How would you know if you were really liberated or not then? Nathan: If `I' am teaching `others,' then the story is well under way. But as it's most likely a fairly comfortable story by then, `I' probably wouldn't care anyway! Q: But what about others who are being taught by someone who isn't really liberated? Nathan: There aren't any others! The delusion here lies in the idea that `I' am a teacher. From www.awake-now.org <http://www.awake-now.org> Love to all, Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <charliehayes36 wrote: > > > Contradictions Of Pointers > > There are many seeming contradictions from various " teachers " regarding > the practice or occurring of " Self-Enquiry. " > > This page will not resolve these seeming conflicts. Resolution can only > occur as an intellectual understanding of a pointer - which turns the > elegant pointer into ever more spiritual bullshit. > > These pointings are not REPRESENTATIONS of some knowing- some " truth. " > Take them for what they are - only concepts! Assigning meaning or some > " authentic validity " to a concept of " Truth " is yet another story - > being arising as a false conception of the un-nameable Isness of Being. > The pointers are not what they seem to be. > > Being Is All There Is – arising as false teachers and teachings and > all concepts and experiences. That is all there is to say – and THAT > is NOT TRUE EITHER! > > For Example: > > To one seeker, Sri Ramana Maharshi - the famous Sage of Non-duality - > said: > > " The thought 'who am I?' will destroy all other thoughts, and like the > stick used for stirring the burning pyre, it will itself in the end get > destroyed. Then, there will arise Self-realization. " > > To another, the same sage, Ramana, said: > > " There is no greater mystery than this: ourselves being the Reality, we > seek to gain Reality. We think there is something hiding our Reality and > that it must be destroyed before the Reality is gained. That is > ridiculous. A day will dawn when you will yourself laugh at your past > efforts. That which will be the day you laugh is also here and now. " > > Go figure. > > From " Being: The Bottom Line " by Nathan Gill > > Available from www.non-dualitybooks.com > <http://www.non-dualitybooks.com/> - highly recommended > > Q: Can self-enquiry lead to liberation? > > Nathan: There's no one bound and therefore no liberation from > bondage. What you're referring to as liberation is the seeing or > knowing of this. But a story about bondage may spontaneously appear in > Being, and that story could include a theme of liberation through > self-enquiry. > > Q: So in the story of self-enquiry, can liberation happen? > > Nathan: The story of liberation through self-enquiry unfolds in such a > way that there is the impression of an entity becoming less bound as the > story weakens, seemingly as a `result' of self-enquiry. But the > entity that dissolves isn't really there in the first place; > it's merely suggested by the story. Maybe at some point in the story > this becomes transparently obvious, but until that point enquiry appears > as a serious endeavour on the part of an apparent entity. > > When it is transparently obvious that there are no entities that are > bound, the efforts toward liberation through enquiry or any other means > become a joke. > > Q: Why then do supposedly liberated beings recommend enquiry? > > Nathan: There are neither liberated beings nor beings that are bound; > there is only Being. But so long as the story seems real, there may well > appear to be 'other' beings who offer instruction. > > If the story is transparent and it's obvious there's no one bound -- and > therefore no one needing liberation -- what serious consideration could > be given to the 'liberated' status of a merely apparent 'other' to > undertake self-enquiry? > > Q: It's a red herring then. > > Nathan: If there's a story that includes the urge toward liberation > through enquiry, then the story may well continue to unfold in that way, > regardless of whether I declare it to be a red herring or not.. However, > if the story being told includes being told that enquiry is a red > herring, and the story becomes transparent as a seeming result of that, > then enquiry is indeed seen as a red herring. > > There's also another answer to your question as to why supposedly > liberated beings recommend enquiry. If 'I' as a character in the story > experience what 'I' believe to be liberation as a 'result' of enquiry, > 'I' may then proceed to teach enquiry as a means of liberation to that > which is still perceived as `others.' > > Q: How would you know if you were really liberated or not then? > > Nathan: If `I' am teaching `others,' then the story is > well under way. But as it's most likely a fairly comfortable story > by then, `I' probably wouldn't care anyway! > > Q: But what about others who are being taught by someone who isn't > really liberated? > > Nathan: There aren't any others! The delusion here lies in the idea > that `I' am a teacher. > > From www.awake-now.org <http://www.awake-now.org> > > Love to all, > > Charlie > > life's a bitch. ich bin nichts. .b > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 (((((((((Charlie))))))))) there is no contradiction there is no one apart as the lonely soul is lifted ever homeward bound in the arms of the Beloved. Gassho, Anna Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <charliehayes36 wrote: > > > Contradictions Of Pointers > > There are many seeming contradictions from various " teachers " regarding > the practice or occurring of " Self-Enquiry. " > > This page will not resolve these seeming conflicts. Resolution can only > occur as an intellectual understanding of a pointer - which turns the > elegant pointer into ever more spiritual bullshit. > > These pointings are not REPRESENTATIONS of some knowing- some " truth. " > Take them for what they are - only concepts! Assigning meaning or some > " authentic validity " to a concept of " Truth " is yet another story - > being arising as a false conception of the un-nameable Isness of Being. > The pointers are not what they seem to be. > > Being Is All There Is – arising as false teachers and teachings and > all concepts and experiences. That is all there is to say – and THAT > is NOT TRUE EITHER! > > For Example: > > To one seeker, Sri Ramana Maharshi - the famous Sage of Non- duality - > said: > > " The thought 'who am I?' will destroy all other thoughts, and like the > stick used for stirring the burning pyre, it will itself in the end get > destroyed. Then, there will arise Self-realization. " > > To another, the same sage, Ramana, said: > > " There is no greater mystery than this: ourselves being the Reality, we > seek to gain Reality. We think there is something hiding our Reality and > that it must be destroyed before the Reality is gained. That is > ridiculous. A day will dawn when you will yourself laugh at your past > efforts. That which will be the day you laugh is also here and now. " > > Go figure. > > From " Being: The Bottom Line " by Nathan Gill > > Available from www.non-dualitybooks.com > <http://www.non-dualitybooks.com/> - highly recommended > > Q: Can self-enquiry lead to liberation? > > Nathan: There's no one bound and therefore no liberation from > bondage. What you're referring to as liberation is the seeing or > knowing of this. But a story about bondage may spontaneously appear in > Being, and that story could include a theme of liberation through > self-enquiry. > > Q: So in the story of self-enquiry, can liberation happen? > > Nathan: The story of liberation through self-enquiry unfolds in such a > way that there is the impression of an entity becoming less bound as the > story weakens, seemingly as a `result' of self-enquiry. But the > entity that dissolves isn't really there in the first place; > it's merely suggested by the story. Maybe at some point in the story > this becomes transparently obvious, but until that point enquiry appears > as a serious endeavour on the part of an apparent entity. > > When it is transparently obvious that there are no entities that are > bound, the efforts toward liberation through enquiry or any other means > become a joke. > > Q: Why then do supposedly liberated beings recommend enquiry? > > Nathan: There are neither liberated beings nor beings that are bound; > there is only Being. But so long as the story seems real, there may well > appear to be 'other' beings who offer instruction. > > If the story is transparent and it's obvious there's no one bound - - and > therefore no one needing liberation -- what serious consideration could > be given to the 'liberated' status of a merely apparent 'other' to > undertake self-enquiry? > > Q: It's a red herring then. > > Nathan: If there's a story that includes the urge toward liberation > through enquiry, then the story may well continue to unfold in that way, > regardless of whether I declare it to be a red herring or not.. However, > if the story being told includes being told that enquiry is a red > herring, and the story becomes transparent as a seeming result of that, > then enquiry is indeed seen as a red herring. > > There's also another answer to your question as to why supposedly > liberated beings recommend enquiry. If 'I' as a character in the story > experience what 'I' believe to be liberation as a 'result' of enquiry, > 'I' may then proceed to teach enquiry as a means of liberation to that > which is still perceived as `others.' > > Q: How would you know if you were really liberated or not then? > > Nathan: If `I' am teaching `others,' then the story is > well under way. But as it's most likely a fairly comfortable story > by then, `I' probably wouldn't care anyway! > > Q: But what about others who are being taught by someone who isn't > really liberated? > > Nathan: There aren't any others! The delusion here lies in the idea > that `I' am a teacher. > > From www.awake-now.org <http://www.awake-now.org> > > Love to all, > > Charlie > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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