Guest guest Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 What is the difference between: the conscious thinking and unconscious thinking? purposeful thinking and purposeless thinking? intentional and un-intentional thinking? self-initiated and un-initiated thinking? What is the difference between: 'thinking' and 'being thought'? purposefully using thinking and just 'being used'? Between: deciding 'what to think' and thinking that and, thoughts 'just happening'? Have you tried both these versions of 'thinking'? Have you experience both these versions of thinking? What is the feeling difference between the two? Have you tried created a thought that you initiate, the thought that you start, a thought that is not started because of external stimulants*? What do you think is the significance of 'conscious thinking'? Do you think there is such thing as 'Conscious thinking'? Do you KNOW if there is such thing as 'Conscious thinking'? BTW... if you are able to think 'consciously', 'purposefully', 'intentionally'... what else is left to do? [to get rid of your 'self inflicted' pain and suffering?] If you are not able to think consciously, aren't you then only dependent on THAT who is 'thinking' because, absent 'conscious, intentional thinking', you are clearly not doing it; you are simply being " thought " ? What you think is the " main " responsibility of " human is???? I think it is to further " develop " and 'strengthen' the Ability to... think Consciously!!! If it is NOT you " job " to 'create' your thoughts - then, whose job you think it is??? ---- *External stimulants : hearing someone's words, reciting something from memory, reading someone's words or watching something, perception of fear, , awareness of hunger, thirst, by awareness of pain]? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 In my experience, there are only two painfree ways to think: Think what you like!* Or, Like what you happen to think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 >>In my experience, there are only two painfree ways to think: >>Think what you like!* >>Or, >>Like what you happen to think! However, in the second mode, you are Always 'little late'! Always little behind the 'thinking wheel' and the possibility of the wheel of unconscious thinking to speed up 'overrun' you remains high! ---- * Think what you like - i.e. Decide why you want to think, how you want to think and what you want to think before you start thinking! Know 'why', 'how' and 'what' of your thinking before starting to think and KNOW them while you continue to think! When thinking is not fulfilling a " purpose " that you have chosen/want - Stop! Only freedom you gain is by gaining the ability to start, stop, guide and monitor your thinking! Only Choice you gain is... by gaining the power to " choose " your thinking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 >>Who " Decides " which thoughts to choose? You do. >>And how do they " Know " which to choose? It is not as difficult as it might sound. In my experience, it is quite easy to choose Awareness over unconsciousness, peace over unnecessary mental noise, clarity over confusion, love over inner struggle. For example, before I begin to read you read your message, I can say [and thus " choose " ] that I will your message with full attention. Or, I can simply open this message and start reading - as if in 'half sleep'. When I start reading your message with first approach, my chances of understanding it greatly increases. On the other hand, if I simply open your message and start reading - it is quite likely that I will look at your messages with prejudiced eyes - expecting to see what I think I have seen in many other past exchanges! In this mode, I will act with 'pre conditioning' to see 'argument', 'fight', 'me vs you', 'win versus loss', 'threat', 'competition', 'opposition'. In this mode, I am more likely to miss your message and to see the 'message' [such as a challenge, a threat] that I have seen in past and thus I am 'pre conditioned' to expect and see more of the same. Same way, before I start listening to my wife - I can " choose " that I am going to listen to my wife with full attention, respect and love. After that, I will try to understand her message, will ask my wife questions if I am not clear about the meaning of something she said, will ask my wife what she really wants to accomplish by it and what she wants me to do about it! And, after doing that, I will speak and act in way that supports my genuine care for my wife, my self, my children and my family and in a way that supports growth, understanding and peace! My other alternative is to listen to her - as if in 'half sleep' and with heavy " active " conditioning of finding the same thing that I think I have found in her conversations before! The way I listen, understand, speak and act in these two cases and the Inner Clarity, Peace and Attention that I feel while doing so will be Very Different - depending on which of the above two approaches I take! Try it and I am sure you might see the differance too! And, yes, doing so does require you to Pay Active Attention! >>Anticipate? Anticipation will imply expecting certain result. Whereas, I am simply asking to FOCUS on the Moment and do what you love/like/want or 'feel right', TRUE to do in this Moment! For example, I can listen to my wife with Full Attention simply because that seems like the RIGHT thing to do in this moment and, not because by doing so, I am hoping my wife to respond in certain way! >>Is this not thinking??? It sure is. But, this is your " own " thinking. You are its SOURCE, You choose it " consciously " , you know why you are doing so, and, you 'agree' with in advance! It is not 'unconscious' 'reactivity'! It is not a thinking that you get 'forced' to do because an external thought has infected you! In this 'conscious thinking', you choose your SPACE - you can choose when to think and when not to think, you can choose 'why' to think and 'what' to think! And, doing so I consider as our main " human " 'responsibility'! Regards, ac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: > >>>Who " Decides " which thoughts to choose? > >You do. AC, did you ever try to follow a thought to its origin? Supposed you have been able: what did you find? Supposed you have not been able: How can you claim that it is possible to " do " something to a thought? In my experience any conscious thinking is influencing a thought through another thought which itself springs from another thought and so on... I am not able to reach any kind of " root " which has " chosen " a thought and is itself not a thought. I cant help it, thats how it is for me. Stefan >>>And how do they " Know " which to choose? > >It is not as difficult as it might sound. In my experience, >it is quite easy to choose Awareness over unconsciousness, >peace over unnecessary mental noise, clarity over confusion, >love over inner struggle. > >For example, before I begin to read you read your message, >I can say [and thus " choose " ] that I will your message >with full attention. Or, I can simply open this message and start >reading - as if in 'half sleep'. > > When I start reading your message with first approach, > my chances of understanding it greatly increases. > > > On the other hand, > if I simply open your message and start reading - it is > quite likely that I will look at your messages with > prejudiced eyes - expecting to see what I think I have seen > in many other past exchanges! In this mode, I will act with > 'pre conditioning' to see 'argument', 'fight', 'me vs you', > 'win versus loss', 'threat', 'competition', 'opposition'. > In this mode, I am more likely to miss your message and to > see the 'message' [such as a challenge, a threat] that > I have seen in past and thus I am 'pre conditioned' > to expect and see more of the same. > > > Same way, > before I start listening to my wife - I can " choose " > that I am going to listen to my wife with full attention, > respect and love. After that, I will try to understand her message, > will ask my wife questions if I am not clear about the meaning > of something she said, will ask my wife what she really wants > to accomplish by it and what she wants me to do about it! > And, after doing that, I will speak and act in way that > supports my genuine care for my wife, my self, my children > and my family and in a way that supports growth, understanding and > peace! > > > My other alternative is to listen to her - as if in 'half sleep' > and with heavy " active " conditioning of finding the same thing that > I think I have found in her conversations before! > > > > The way I listen, understand, speak and act in these two cases > and the Inner Clarity, Peace and Attention that I feel while doing > so will be Very Different - depending on which of the above two > approaches I take! > > Try it and I am sure you might see the differance too! > > And, yes, doing so does require you to Pay Active Attention! > > > > > > >>Anticipate? > > Anticipation will imply expecting certain result. > Whereas, I am simply asking to FOCUS on the Moment > and do what you love/like/want or 'feel right', > TRUE to do in this Moment! For example, I can listen to my wife > with Full Attention simply because that seems like the RIGHT > thing to do in this moment and, not because by doing so, I > am hoping my wife to respond in certain way! > > > >>Is this not thinking??? > > It sure is. > > But, this is your " own " thinking. You are its SOURCE, > You choose it " consciously " , you know why you are doing so, and, > you 'agree' with in advance! It is not 'unconscious' 'reactivity'! > It is not a thinking that you get 'forced' to do because an > external thought has infected you! In this 'conscious thinking', > you choose your SPACE - you can choose when to think and when not to > think, you can choose 'why' to think and 'what' to think! > And, doing so I consider as our main " human " 'responsibility'! > > > > Regards, > ac > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > > >>>Who " Decides " which thoughts to choose? > > > >You do. > > AC, did you ever try to follow a thought > to its origin? Yes > > Supposed you have been able: > what did you find? A thought > > Supposed you have not been able: > How can you claim that it is possible > to " do " something to a thought? Because, I have found that it is really possible to do so. > > In my experience > any conscious thinking > is influencing a thought > through another thought Sure... > which itself springs from another thought > and so on... and, why that is a problem for you? > > I am not able to reach any kind of " root " > which has " chosen " a thought > and is itself not a thought. and, why that is a problem for you? > > I cant help it, thats how it is for me. and, so??? > > Stefan > [...] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming wrote: >> I am not able to reach any kind of " root " >> which has " chosen " a thought >> and is itself not a thought. > >and, why that is a problem for you? Dear AC, your question does imply that I have a problem with the above. Please, lets not continue our conversation in such a polemic way. I have never said that it is a problem. The opposite is the case. My motivation behind telling you my observations is that they are diametrical to your view: " Only Choice you gain is... by gaining the power to " choose " your thinking! " AC, you just have admitted in your reply that the only " root " to a thought can be again another thought, and I am glad that we agree in this matter. But this obviously means that it is *NOT* possible to chose ones thoughts. The presumedly chosen thought is caused by another thought, which also has not been chosen, because it is again the result of another thought. And so on. Unless one has discovered a mysterious instance behind ones thoughts which is itself not a thought (but can deliberately chose thoughts) one cannot seriously claim that it is possible to chose thoughts. I cannot help but feel that your theory about the power of choosing and controlling thoughts ( " think what you like " - mode) makes everything unnecessarily complicated and stressful. I live a wonderful life without choosing and controlling my thoughts! In fact it is more or less the same life as before (when I had in fact believed that I could deliberately chose and change my thinking). The only difference is now, that I have a lot less headache and experience more often the power of spontaneity. Greetings Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming@> wrote: > > >> I am not able to reach any kind of " root " > >> which has " chosen " a thought > >> and is itself not a thought. > > > >and, why that is a problem for you? > > > Dear AC, > > your question does imply that I have a problem with the above. Please, > lets not continue our conversation in such a polemic way. I have never > said that it is a problem. The opposite is the case. > > My motivation behind telling you my observations is that they are > diametrical to your view: Ok > > " Only Choice you gain is... by gaining > the power to " choose " your thinking! " > > AC, you just have admitted in your reply that the only " root " to a > thought can be again another thought, and I am glad that we agree in > this matter. But this obviously means that it is *NOT* possible to > chose ones thoughts. It is possible to choose thoughts, even when, root of thoughts is thought; just as it is possible to choose a plant, a seed - even though, father of the plant is the seed and the father of the seed is the plant! It is possible, because there are many seeds and plants to choose from! Same way, you can chose which egg and which chicken [or which bird] even though, the chicken comes from the egg and egg from the chicken. Because, there are many chickens [birds] and many eggs to choose from. Same way, one can choose thought even if the root of thoughts is in thoughts. > The presumedly chosen thought is caused by > another thought, which also has not been chosen, because it is again > the result of another thought. And so on. See above… > > Unless one has discovered a mysterious instance behind ones thoughts > which is itself not a thought (but can deliberately chose thoughts) > one cannot seriously claim that it is possible to chose thoughts. See above… > > I cannot help but feel that your theory about the power of choosing > and controlling thoughts ( " think what you like " - mode) makes > everything unnecessarily complicated and stressful. See above… > I live a wonderful > life without choosing and controlling my thoughts! I can't comment on your lf as I don't know much about it. > In fact it is more > or less the same life as before (when I had in fact believed that I > could deliberately chose and change my thinking). Ok > The only difference > is now, that I have a lot less headache In all my life, I have had headache may be only 2 or 3 times. I have never even once taken aspirin Or any other headache medicine. Maybe, it is Genetically so; my mother too has no headaches. > and experience more often the > power of spontaneity. I too [like many, many other people] experience lot of spontaneity - and, sometimes that spontaneity results in spontaneously getting angry and spontaneously expressing that anger too! IOW… I think this concept of " spontaneity " is way too 'overrated' in the spiritual circles! For example, this message [ like pretty much 98% of my messages] from me to you is spontaneously written - yet, it is my experience that had I planned it and written it in a more systematic, methodical way and reviewed it before sending - it would have had less grammatical errors - would have been easier to read - would have been more effective - would have clearly conveyed what I wanted to say! I also answered pretty much all my test papers… spontaneously and almost never reviewed them before submitting. Was that the best way to do it - no, I was just lazy and reckless that's all! Regards, ac > > Greetings > Stefan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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