Guest guest Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Instead of describing oneself " a human being " --some poor benighted souls still do this--it would be truer to say " a human situation " .In other words, a situation or set of circumstances that includes a human organism that is receiving sensory data thru eyes, ears, skin, nose, etc.In short, I am my circumstances.I am very big when the open sky is among the inputs. I am very small when I am locked in a closet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen wrote: > > Instead of describing oneself " a human being " --some poor benighted > souls still do this--it would be truer to say " a human situation " .In > other words, a situation or set of circumstances that includes a > human organism that is receiving sensory data thru eyes, ears, skin, > nose, etc.In short, I am my circumstances.I am very big when the open > sky is among the inputs. I am very small when I am locked in a closet. What makes the situation yours? Is there an owner of it? What forms the separation between that situation and other situations, other than conventional ideas about divisions? Conventional ideas are sense data just as much as anything else. Without referring to conventional assumptions -- based on direct awareness -- how real is the division between sensor, sensing, sense data, and object being sensed? -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 > > Without referring to conventional assumptions -- based on direct > awareness -- how real is the division between sensor, sensing, sense > data, and object being sensed? > > > -- Dan > It is as real as the self. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > Without referring to conventional assumptions -- based on direct > > awareness -- how real is the division between sensor, sensing, sense > > data, and object being sensed? > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > It is as real as the self. > > > > toombaru > somehow the word " real " seems a bit zapped of zip and vitality here... and is that a rhetorical question being answered by a rhetorical answer? Actually, " based on direct awareness " is kinda end-of-discussion... like if we actually " go there " (excuse the metaphor(s)), then we can't take whatever questions with us anyway. So I will end with a question of my own: " What doesn't collapse in the context of direct awareness? " Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Without referring to conventional assumptions -- based on direct > > > awareness -- how real is the division between sensor, sensing, sense > > > data, and object being sensed? > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > It is as real as the self. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > somehow the word " real " seems a bit zapped of zip and vitality here... > > and is that a rhetorical question being answered by a rhetorical answer? > > Actually, " based on direct awareness " is kinda end-of-discussion... > like if we actually " go there " (excuse the metaphor(s)), then > we can't take whatever questions with us anyway. > > So I will end with a question of my own: > " What doesn't collapse in the context of direct awareness? " > > > Bill > ...........the center pole......of a circus tent.......is shaped like this: I toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without referring to conventional assumptions -- based on direct > > > > awareness -- how real is the division between sensor, sensing, sense > > > > data, and object being sensed? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is as real as the self. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > somehow the word " real " seems a bit zapped of zip and vitality here... > > > > and is that a rhetorical question being answered by a rhetorical answer? > > > > Actually, " based on direct awareness " is kinda end-of- discussion... > > like if we actually " go there " (excuse the metaphor(s)), then > > we can't take whatever questions with us anyway. > > > > So I will end with a question of my own: > > " What doesn't collapse in the context of direct awareness? " > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > ..........the center pole......of a circus tent.......is shaped like this: > I > > toombaru > Now that's a trip! And that center pole that impediment that stye in the eye is no longer... when? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Without referring to conventional assumptions -- based on direct > > > awareness -- how real is the division between sensor, sensing, sense > > > data, and object being sensed? > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > It is as real as the self. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > somehow the word " real " seems a bit zapped of zip and vitality here... > > and is that a rhetorical question being answered by a rhetorical answer? > > Actually, " based on direct awareness " is kinda end-of-discussion... > like if we actually " go there " (excuse the metaphor(s)), then > we can't take whatever questions with us anyway. > > So I will end with a question of my own: > " What doesn't collapse in the context of direct awareness? " > > > Bill what doesn't collapse in direct awareness? : (the 'context' of same is too phony and trite to consider) = nothing collapses that is Real. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without referring to conventional assumptions -- based on > direct > > > > > awareness -- how real is the division between sensor, > sensing, sense > > > > > data, and object being sensed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is as real as the self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > somehow the word " real " seems a bit zapped of zip and vitality > here... > > > > > > and is that a rhetorical question being answered by a rhetorical > answer? > > > > > > Actually, " based on direct awareness " is kinda end-of- > discussion... > > > like if we actually " go there " (excuse the metaphor(s)), then > > > we can't take whatever questions with us anyway. > > > > > > So I will end with a question of my own: > > > " What doesn't collapse in the context of direct awareness? " > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > ..........the center pole......of a circus tent.......is shaped > like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Now that's a trip! > > > And that center pole > that impediment > that stye in the eye > > is no longer... > > when? > > > Bill when there is neither 'eye' nor 'stye'... the above will show to be a meaningless question. issued through a nonexistent vapor. for that 'when' is not other than this 'now' now for some, realizing that simple truth shall be a long time coming. and that will kill them anyway. even though it's here. on that 'trip' to and from nowhere already! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > Instead of describing oneself " a human being " --some poor benighted > > souls still do this--it would be truer to say " a human situation " .In > > other words, a situation or set of circumstances that includes a > > human organism that is receiving sensory data thru eyes, ears, skin, > > nose, etc.In short, I am my circumstances.I am very big when the open > > sky is among the inputs. I am very small when I am locked in a closet. > > What makes the situation yours? > > Is there an owner of it? > > What forms the separation between that situation and other situations, > other than conventional ideas about divisions? > > Conventional ideas are sense data just as much as anything else. > > Without referring to conventional assumptions -- based on direct > awareness -- how real is the division between sensor, sensing, sense > data, and object being sensed? > > > -- Dan >You bring up good points. The fact is all we know directly when we are " seeing " are images. That there is an eye seeing is inference (imagination)and that there is a brain processing data to produce the images is more imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 > > Now that's a trip! > > > And that center pole > that impediment > that stye in the eye > > is no longer... > > when? > > > Bill > ........when the wave collapses........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > Now that's a trip! > > > > > > And that center pole > > that impediment > > that stye in the eye > > > > is no longer... > > > > when? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > .......when the wave collapses........ uhmmm....... at the collapse of the wave function..discrimination is called forth. at that precise instant the world arises. all position, momentum, form, existence is from this collapse. the 'I' will cease when it's known that the 'arising' is 'not'... when no wave form has collapsed. it is an 'apparency' only. just probability and numbers. even the wave form is merely ostensible. nothing collapses from nothing. but that's another story about the same tale. ..b bobji baba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Now that's a trip! > > > > > > > > > And that center pole > > > that impediment > > > that stye in the eye > > > > > > is no longer... > > > > > > when? > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > .......when the wave collapses........ > > > uhmmm....... > > at the collapse of the wave function..discrimination is called forth. > > at that precise instant the world arises. > > all position, momentum, form, existence is from this collapse. > > the 'I' will cease when it's known that the 'arising' is 'not'... > > when no wave form has collapsed. > > it is an 'apparency' only. > > just probability and numbers. > > even the wave form is merely ostensible. > > nothing collapses from nothing. > > but that's another story about the same tale. > > .b bobji baba the collapse of the wave function is the Keystone to 'Identity', as realized in world spacetime. it is of course pure fantasy. what your reading is your current now moment.. " i am reading this.. " and nobody's home. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now that's a trip! > > > > > > > > > > > > And that center pole > > > > that impediment > > > > that stye in the eye > > > > > > > > is no longer... > > > > > > > > when? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .......when the wave collapses........ > > > > > > uhmmm....... > > > > at the collapse of the wave function..discrimination is called forth. > > > > at that precise instant the world arises. > > > > all position, momentum, form, existence is from this collapse. > > > > the 'I' will cease when it's known that the 'arising' is 'not'... > > > > when no wave form has collapsed. > > > > it is an 'apparency' only. > > > > just probability and numbers. > > > > even the wave form is merely ostensible. > > > > nothing collapses from nothing. > > > > but that's another story about the same tale. > > > > .b bobji baba > > > > > the collapse of the wave function is the Keystone to 'Identity', > > as realized in world spacetime. > > it is of course pure fantasy. > > what your reading is your current now moment.. > > " i am reading this.. " > > and nobody's home. > > > .b b.b. this possible probability... in principal it is uncertain. the corpus of infinite possibility. always. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " tom " <jeusisbuen@> wrote: > > > > > > Instead of describing oneself " a human being " --some poor > benighted > > > souls still do this--it would be truer to say " a human > situation " .In > > > other words, a situation or set of circumstances that includes > a > > > human organism that is receiving sensory data thru eyes, ears, > skin, > > > nose, etc.In short, I am my circumstances.I am very big when the > open > > > sky is among the inputs. I am very small when I am locked in a > closet. > > > > What makes the situation yours? > > > > Is there an owner of it? > > > > What forms the separation between that situation and other > situations, > > other than conventional ideas about divisions? > > > > Conventional ideas are sense data just as much as anything else. > > > > Without referring to conventional assumptions -- based on direct > > awareness -- how real is the division between sensor, sensing, > sense > > data, and object being sensed? > > > > > > -- Dan > >You bring up good points. The fact is all we know directly when we > are " seeing " are images. That there is an eye seeing is inference > (imagination)and that there is a brain processing data to produce > the images is more imagination. Agreed. So the image isn't produced by something (because that something would be another image formulated as existing in relation to the first image), nor registering upon something. There is no mind (or " consciousness " or " awarness " ) existing outside of the image, within which an image forms. The image is the awareness of the image, and vice versa. Hence, there isn't any actual time (because there is no way to have an inside and outside to the image, and therefore no way to judge time). Time is an implication of the image, but there is no way to say how long the image lasts. When we say how long an image lasts, we do that by comparing one image with another image, within an image. All imaginary. What is actual, one can't say. One might try saying something like " the imageless " or " the nonconceptual " -- but clearly those are images (of the negative kind). -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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